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Ah cool. =] Though to be fair I'd actually say it was Lai Ang First and then Korea second, with Scotland a distant third due to their collapse in the 1650s. And only Korea actually conquered the natives in a big way, ending up with most of the West Coast, Mexico and Texas under their belt. Though speaking personally I kinda wish there was a way to simulate French colonialism without their innate size and strength allowing them to steam-roll the natives. Either that or throwing in a third European power with a preference for the Exploration ideas, maybe Holland? Or Denmark? Just something to make the map a bit more interesting and the conflicts out in the New World a bit more volatile. Though that's just personal preference on my part.
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Jul 26, 2014 19:39
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So Brunei and Malacca are nominally Confucian, but all their provinces are Sunni. Is this WAD?
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Jul 26, 2014 22:37
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Funky Valentine posted:So Brunei and Malacca are nominally Confucian, but all their provinces are Sunni. Is this WAD? Whoops! Nope.
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Jul 26, 2014 22:40
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Rincewind posted:It's possible to mend the schism as Catholic in PB/HIM, IIRC. Oh, awesome, I've been rolling with HIP for my last few games but I didn't know that was possible. Do you have to take all of the Orthodox holy sites like the Byzantines do, or the Catholic ones? Also, the duel engine in HIP is awesome, but it definitely leads to some really short reigns, as this LP demonstrated. What can I say, I can't turn down a fight. Although all the regencies are totally worth it just for one time I made the Fylkir himself beg for mercy and then said no. 
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Jul 27, 2014 00:16
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It's a shame the duel engine literally never works outside of GoT mod for me.  Edit: Also, still CTDing but apparently nobody else has this problem. ???
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Jul 27, 2014 06:01
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At this point, I feel like I could just keep on working on the mod literally forever, but instead I've fixed the handful of issues people have pointed out and just started the stupid LP. New version of ByzMod here!  PRELUDE: The State of the World in A.D. 1444 From the secret archives of the Black Chamber comes this purported record of a meeting between the French King Raimbaut de Valois-Vexin and his ministers on November 11th, 1444.  HERALD: Most high, most potent and most excellent Prince, Raimbaut de Valois-Vexin, by the Grace of God, King of France, Most Christian Majesty. MINISTERS, AMBASSADORS, and the DAUPHIN stand. His Majesty the King sits, followed by the others.  HIS MAJESTY: Let's get down to business. I'm sure we've all heard wild rumors left and right-- the Ming intend to retake Hungary, a fresh army is on its way from China, all the Ming are marching back to China, and so on. LOUIS PANCEMONT, COMTE DE CHAMPAGNE: I've heard they've sacked Jerusalem and shot the Metropolitan of the Holy City into the sea with the largest cannon ever made! H.M.: Jerusalem remains in Christian hands, Champagne. ANTOINE HANRIOT, COMTE DE BARROIS: A Turkish mercenary I know swore she'd seen the Senate in Constantinople vote to claim the entire borders of the Roman Empire under Trajan as Byzantine territory, and a Roman army is marching on the 'province of Gaul' as we speak! H.M.: A wild exaggeration. JEAN-BAPTISTE REVILLON, METROPOLITAN OF THE AUTOCEPHALOUS ORTHODOX CHURCH OF FRANCE: My man in Constantinople wrote that the Hui forced Pedro de León convert to Islam as penance for his role in the revolt of the Leónese, and he did so rather than become a martyr for true religion. H.M.: Hm. Well, that one's true. REVILLON: The Ecumenical Patriarch keeps a close watch on all its children, your majesty. H.M.: Still! There's been a lot of quite unnecessary alarm. So, to set the record straight, the Dauphin of France, Martin will give a brief presentation on the current strategic situation in the Near West... excuse me, in Christendom.  MARTIN DE VALOIS-VEXIN, DAUPHIN OF FRANCE: Thank you, Father. As you are all no doubt aware, the Near West is in a state of flux, transition, and-- in places-- outright chaos. However, I feel that a more stable political order is finally beginning to emerge in the wake of the victory of the Second Hungarian League, the retreat of the Ming Frontier Army from central Europe, etc.  DAUPHIN: First, there is our beloved homeland itself. While our armies suffered grievous losses in our failed attempts to prevent the Papal State from reclaiming Corsica and Sardinia, the metropole remains sacrosanct. When most of the rest of the Near West has been ravaged by events like the conquests of the Ming, the collapse of England and the Holy Roman Empire, civil wars, and a multitude of other such woes, we have never been stronger. In the south, we hold both sides of the Pyrenees. In the west, we are slowly pushing into Germany and the Low Countries. We are surely the foremost Christian nation in the world. REVILLON: Surely that honor belongs to Rome. DAUPHIN: A spent force. Its strength has bled out fighting for the benefit of Hungarians and Turks and putting down revolts by the local nobility.  DAUPHIN: Iberia, in spite of being the most far-flung conquest of the Ming Frontier Army, never fully slipped from their grasp. While the southeast remains a patchwork of Andalusian successor states and petty rebel Chinese lordlings, and in the north-- incredibly-- the Catholic Knights of Calatrava have emerged as an independent power-- the bulk of the territory is still under Hui occupation.  DAUPHIN: The de León monarchs remain the nominal rulers of the kingdom, but his grace the Metropolitan astutely observed, they have converted to Sunni Islam. In any case, they are mere puppets of a clique of Hui military officers.  DAUPHIN: Banu Barghawati Mauritania retains its hold on southwestern Iberia, but North Africa remains their true base of power.   DAUPHIN: Across the English channel, the English continue to pay the price of Gregory de Conteville's great folly. While the petty lords of Wessex, Bedford, Kent, Lancaster, York, and Northumberland all vie for the broken crown of England, Catholic Scotland has emerged from its dynastic infighting stronger than ever, and King Niall Kyle is keen to extend his dominion south of Hadrian's Wall.  DAUPHIN: In Scandinavia, both Catholic Norway and Orthodox Denmark have benefitted from the destruction of the Kingdom of Sweden. Denmark, however, claimed the richest provinces of Sweden for itself, and now stands as the foremost power of the region.   DAUPHIN: Norway, however, has a powerful ally in the form of the remnants of the Holy Roman Empire. Once fought to be more or less finished as a force in European politics after centuries of gradual decline followed by a chaotic struggle for supremacy between the houses of de Conteville, von Bremen, and von Habsburg and, ultimately, the loss of southern Germany to the Frontier Army and its refusal to rejoin the Empire following the victory of the League. Now, however, Karl von Habsburg, with the backing of the Papal State-- and, more importantly, the vast fortunes of the coffers of Orbetello and the vast armies of the Church Militant-- has been elected emperor and brought the Empire back into the Catholic fold. REVILLON: Apostasy! Heresy most foul! He has delivered the soul of the German people to hell. DAUPHIN: His Grace the Metropolitan is correct, of course. But he has managed to entrench the Holy Roman Empire in northern Germany as a sort of 'Fortress Habsburg', and this imperial rump state enjoys an ironclad unity even the Holy Roman Empire of Henry IV Salian's salad days never did. DAUPHIN: Southern Germany remains a confused mix of liberated German Princes and Hui-dominated revolter states. I suggest we conquer it before the Habsburgs do.  DAUPHIN: East of Germany lie the realms of the Dunin kings. Wincenty II Dunin's Poland might perhaps be a valuable Orthodox counterweight to the Habsburgs, but of course we are most concerned with Hungary. Greger the Great has been proclaimed a Living Saint by the Ecumenical Patriarch for his victory over the Ming-- and who are we to argue? Nonetheless, it should be noted that Hungary was ravaged by the war, and parts of the Hungarian countryside remain in the hands of Ming Frontier Army holdouts who, rather than follow the orders to demobilize, are hiding in the Carpathian Mountains, waiting for some unspecified form of salvation.   DAUPHIN: Even further east, there's Kiev, Third Rome. Long the ally of their co-dynasts in the second Rome. Yuriy II Yaroslavovich has decided that the impending ascension of Hugh de Mowbray and consequent extinction of the Byzantine Yaroslavoviches is as good a time as any to break the bonds of friendship and become a regional rival of the empire.   DAUPHIN: Which brings us to the Second Rome itself. On paper, they are our closest rivals for the position of the natural leaders of Europe. REVILLON: Of course, their position as leaders of the Orthodox Church is undisputed. DAUPHIN: Of course. Still, with respect to our secular and worldly rivalry-- the Roman Empire is currently riven by conflict between the central government and the old feudal nobility, and is far more vulnerable than its prestigious role in the revolt of the Hungarian League would indicate. COMTE DE BARROIS: You're not telling us anything we don't know! Tell us about the East. H.M.: Aren't you the one who said there was a giant Roman army marching to reconquer Gaul? Shut up. DAUPHIN: Fortunately, I can still answer the Comte de Barrois' curiosity. May I present Gräfin Elsa Chunmei von Hohenburg-Qian of Austria, who has come with an Atlas printed in Beijing this very year. MINISTERS: Gasps, shouts of excitement   VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: Ao Di Li-- or, if you want to be old-fashioned, "Austria"-- is a union of several of the independent Hui states which emerged following the victory of the League of Hungary. So, while we are a Sunni state, Hui and Austrian live side-by-side, and as we have no love for the Ming or its formal successor states, we are prepared to share some of our superior knowledge with Orthodox leaders such as yourselves. VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: We shall start with a discussion of those successor states. The Dauphin has already accurately described the status of Lai Ang, so we shall move onto Da Qin.   H.M.: My Mandarin's a bit rusty... doesn't Da Qin mean... "Big China"? VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: In this case it is a specific allusion to the name the ancient Chinese gave to the Roman Empire of antiquity, as Da Qin's capital is in Antioch, the traditional seat of power in the Roman East. The ancients mythologized the Roman Empire as a sort of Western mirror image of China on the other end of the world. In naming his share of Chang Yuchun's conquests "Da Qin", Emperor Hu Daihan seeks to evoke this legacy. H.M.: Everyone wants to be Rome. The Habsburgs, the Byzantines, the Russians, these "Da Qin"... Meanwhile, the Pope is still sitting on the actual city of Rome on his giant pile of gold. Makes you wonder what the whole point is. We're doing just fine being "France", you know. VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: As you wish, your majesty.  VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: Much of the former Republic of Somalia has been reclaimed by Somali successor states-- Busaso, Mogadishu, and Abyssinia. The areas Hui military officials maintained control over been organized into the merchant republic of Suo Ma Li. It is the weakest of all of the Frontier Army's successor states, and I doubt it can stand long against Somali aspirations to reform the old Somalian Republic.   VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: The most powerful of the successor states is the Empire of Yilang. Ruled by the descendants of Chang Yuchun himself, Yilang rules the Persian heartland of the Frontier Army's conquests, where Hui rule is most entrenched. Much of their northern territory has melted away into a mixture of Mongol and Hui states, while a large swath of the old Levantine Empire was liberated by the Hungarian League or in subsequent revolts.   VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: India was bypassed by the Frontier Army on its journey west, but fearing a second such great offensive, the princes of the subcontinent have banded together into the Indian League, under the leadership of the Sultan of Delhi. It remains to be seen if this unity can hold, or if the rival princes will all turn on one another and bring the League tumbling down.  VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: In Southeast Asia, the Confucian states of Annam, Boni, and Manlejia, Sunni Aceh, and-- incredibly-- Catholic Thailand all vie for supremacy.   VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: And then there's China.   VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: Finally, in far-off Japan, the Fujiwara Empress and the Minamoto Shogun of the Kamakura Bafuku state one another down, while the Genchou-- the last remnants of the Mongol Empire which once dominated nearly all of Asia-- sulk in the south. In Korea, the hermit kingdoms of Baekje and Goguryeo gaze inwards, while Silla gazes outwards, wondering just what lies beyond over the great wide Pacific... H.M.: Dragons, I assume. DAUPHIN: The krakken? REVILLON: They shall sail off the world's edge in their pagan hubris. VON HOHENBURG-QIAN: The world is round, Metropolitan. So clearly if they sail far enough, they'll reach Lai Ang. H.M.: Come on, that's like basic science. Don't they make you read the classics at whatever Greek seminary stamps you guys out by the dozen? H.M.: In any case, we've covered enough for now. I expect all of you to consider what you've learned here as you formulate your ministries' policies. WORLD MAP, 1444  I've split the first update into this SotW and the first gameplay, so expect another update shortly.
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Jul 27, 2014 08:48
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There's a major bug with the Indian League, you can only vote for countries of the same religion group as the current emperor to be emperor, so AI nations who aren't muslim will never vote for anyone other than themselves because they can't vote outside their own religion group, and the emperor will always be muslim unless they are rendered unable to hold the position anymore (by being vassalized or annexed or something) and it recalculates from scratch. It actually took me nearly two hundred years in my Orissa game to notice this. 
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Jul 27, 2014 10:15
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 PART 35: The Savoy Truffle (1444-1453) (With apologies to Mike Duncan) (And hey, why not listen to the new Revolutions podcast while you're at it?) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GmzK6_tAmo Hello, and welcome to the History of Rome. Episode 532: The Savoy Truffle. Believe it or not, this was very nearly the last episode of the History of Rome. See, in the midst of the long series of Senate votes Empress Basillike Yaroslavovna and Prince Hugh de Mowbray presided over in an attempt to finally kill feudalism once and for all and create something-- anything-- that, y'know, sort of resembled an early modern nation state and not a scheming hive of backstabbing feudal dokes, the Senate had a very curious vote. They voted on whether or not to just give up on the whole Rome thing and just be the Byzantine Empire. You see, the argument went, when pretty much everyone is claiming to be Rome-- the Russians, the Habsburgs, Da Qin, the Papal State, maybe it's time for a radical rebranding.  So instead of talking about the "Byzantine Empire" being a phase of Roman history spanning roughly from the exile of Romulus Augustulus to 1444, that period would be considered a long transitional one, with the Roman Empire on one end and the Byzantine Empire on the other. And the vote was actually really close. If a few Senators had voted the other way, I could finally, finally end this podcast and start a new one about, I don't know, revolutions or something. They didn't, so the Roman Empire stayed the "Roman Empire". But I think that sort of belies just how sweeping the political changes of 1444 were. Usually, when people talk about how transformative a moment in history 1444 were, they mean the demobilization of the Ming Frontier Army and the foundation of the successor states of Lai Ang, Da Qin, Suo Ma Li, and Yilang. If they deign to spare a moment for the Eurasian periphery, they might mention the Habsburgs taking over the Holy Roman Empire and converting to Catholicism. Rome, meanwhile, seemed to just sit there. At the end of 1444, Basillike was still empress, Rome was still Orthodox, and it still looked more or less the same on a map of the Near West. But internally, it couldn't be more different from the Rome of 1443. Or so Basillike and Hugh hoped, anyway.  Confusingly, Rome named its new system of governance a "Byzantine Empire". Not the Byzantine Empire, just a Byzantine Empire. Some people-- especially New Byzantine types in the Senate-- went so far as to formally refer to the state as "the Byzantine Empire of Rome".  And, of course, we still refer to the legislative body of the empire as the Byzantine Senate, and the ethnic groups with official standing in the empire-- at this point, the Greeks, Georgians, Alans, Armenians, Pechenegs, and Turks-- the Byzantine peoples.     With the Byzantine Senate free to form its own political parties once again, Yaroslav's old Committees of State were transformed into a Chinese-style bureaucracy modelled on the Three Departments and Six Ministries system originally invented by the Han dynasty, and used by every dynasty in China-- as well as many other Sinicized states-- since. You can't just wish a civil service system fully staffed with exam-qualified officials overnight, though, so the early days of the Byzantine civil service were... how can I put this tactfully... troubled?  The Senate hoped to make things a bit easier on the new civil service by temporarily ceding authority in the outlying regions of the empire to autonomous vassals.      Finally, Basillike brought in some outside help to shore up the state's administration a bit, and hopefully speed up the process of getting the civil service used to their new responsibilities.  Meanwhile, a Black Chamber agent was sent to get the ball rolling on bringing some of the provinces Komitas Branas let slip away back into the imperial fold. Because if you're naming an important state institution the "Committee of Venice", it probably helps if you actually rule Venice. On the other hand, the Roman Empire had not ruled Rome for quite a while now, so maybe nobody will care.  The doukes of the empire grumbled about all of these attempts to curtail their power. Basillike responded by raising their taxes and telling them to shut up.  She put that money to work expanding the Roman Navy with a fresh fleet of trade ships to tighten Roman control over trade in the Eastern Mediterranean.  Lest this encourage the Committee of Venice, however, the Varangian Committee took the opportunity to remind everyone that they were the leading faction. This kind of thing happened often in these early days-- while the Empress theoretically had the power to allocate resources and favor among the committees of state as she saw fit, in practice the committees all just did whatever they wanted to, hoarding the most gifted young graduates of the civil service exams for themselves.  The Mediterranean trade was also affected by the re-opening of the Suez Canal in the February of 1445. The canal had been closed since it was damaged heavily in the midst of the collapse of the Ming Frontier, but thanks to the efforts of Suyishi Yunhe (which literally just means "Suez Canal"-- this Hui revolter state thought the canal was so important they named their country after it!) the Mediterranean and Indian Ocean were once again connected.  The main threat to Byzantine trade, however, was Da Qin, and the two rival states traded embargos and insults throughout the 1440s.   Under the watchful eye of the Varangian Committee, preparations for the campaign against Venice continued. The civil servants took stock of the Byzantine standing army, and weren't pleased with what they saw-- they were vastly inferior to the sorts of troops Da Qin or Yilang could field. Still, they should be more than equal to the task of reconquering Venice. Right?  Basillike then continued to try to marginalize the nobility by beginning the process of more tightly integrating the provinces of Albania and Epirus-- the heartland of the vassal Kingdom of the Pechenegs-- into the empire.  This, however, created a power vacuum in local governance. For the time being, Basillike decided she was putting enough stress on her shaky baby bird of a civil service, and appointed members of the Senatorial class to pick up the slack. The nobles weren't fans of that at all.   In the December 1445, the Black Chamber finally finished the prep-work for a war on Venice, and the empress declared what was sure to be a splendid little war that would dramatically improve the empire's strategic position in the Adriatic and start undoing some of the damage that bad, nasty, no-good worst emperor ever Komitas Branas did. And then this happened:  Rome saw France as its biggest rival. It was much closer to the empire than Yilang, and much more likely to interfere with the western ambitions of Basillike and her son, who made a point of wanting to cement Roman control over southern Europe. So they reasoned that letting the newly-crowned King Martin de Valois-Vexin of France become the king of Savoy as well would be a huge problem down the road.  Rome was correct in realizing that France was their most dangerous enemy. But they consistently underestimated just how dangerous an enemy it could be.   When the Savoyard Succession War broke out, Roman troops were already en route to Venice.  They saw no need to break off operations. They could just quickly take out Venice, and then pivot around and fight off the French. Right?  And-- to be fair-- they were right about the whole taking Venice out quickly part.   And for a while it seemed like they had the right idea with the thing where they pivot around and fight the French, easily overwhelming the initial foray into Italy by the French and their Danish allies.  (Meanwhile, the doukes used their importance to the military to try to curtail the growing power of the civil service)  With the French apparently ejected from Tuscany, the Romans threw a lavish exhibition of all the finest Florence had to offer...  ...and secured passage through New Bulgaria in order to launch a counterattack on French soil. There was a problem, though. Well, two problems. Actually, three problems.  The first was just that the Committee of Venice had enough trouble juggling all of Rome's large vassal states, so they didn't really have the bureaucratic bandwidth to deal with the New Bulgarians.  The second was that the Roman expeditionary force had to be recalled to Florence to put down a peasant revolt.  And the third was that the French had plenty more soldiers where the last ones came from, and unlike Rome, which had to slowly ferry reinforcements over the Adriatic (the Roman navy of the time could only carry 16 regiments at once!), fresh French armies could just walk right into the empire.      At this point, things started to go very badly for the Romans. The French slowly drove them down the Italian peninsula, while behind the Roman lines revolts broke out in the former territories of Venice, which had been annexed so recently the ink on the treaty hadn't even dried yet.   The Battle of Florence, in which an army led by King Martin himself bested one led by Hugh de Mowbray, ended any realistic chance of the Romans winning the war. The French, however, refused to talk terms, hoping to run up the score for a heftier peace indemnity.  The Romans quickly hired a mercenary army, but more with an eye towards defeating the revolts in Venice and at least hanging onto that than seriously contesting the Savoyard throne.  And, well, they got the job done.  Sort of.    Finally, Martin de Valois-Vexin was ready to talk terms with the Romans. The deal was highly unfavorable-- in addition to acknowledging Martin as king of Savoy, the Romans had to go into debt paying war reparations to France (remember all those mercenaries they hired?) and-- worst of all-- release Crete as an independent nation.  On the bright side, with the French off their backs, Hugh was able to defeat the Istrian rebels with the remnants of his army.  A new revolt immediately broke out in Parma. When the Croatians began to express discontent, the government elected to just send them a giant chest of gold and hoped they shut up for a while.  This drove the empire further into debt.  Still, it let the army take care of the rebels in Parma and back in Anatolia. This helped reinforce the primacy of the Varangian faction-- whether the Empress liked it or not.  Finally, things started to seem to get a bit better. The Varangians began to replenish the depleted manpower of the empire...  ...and the Romans began to pay off their debts.  Next, they began to re-establish imperial administration in Venice and Istria.  Meanwhile, among the commoners of the empire-- you know, all those Greeks and Turks and Pechenegs and so forth who aren't doukes or senators, so nobody bothered writing about them in the history books-- began to tell a curious tale about Iouliana the Great. Supposedly, Iouliana the Great had never died at all-- she'd gone far away over the Atlantic Ocean, and would come back at the head of a mighty fleet when the empire needed her most. Significantly, they told this story about Iouliana, and not St. Valeria, even though Saint Valeria was the official Most Important Ruler In Recent History™.  The Varangians continued to try to learn from their experience fighting the Frontier Army. The Frontier Army was well-known for its early use of pike-and-shot tactics. The Romans were still a long way off from "shot", but they were starting to get a handle on "pike".  Venice was formally re-integrated into the empire, finances had recovered from the French war indemnity, nobody had rebelled for a while-- 1453 was shaping up to be a real banner year for the Byzantine Empire of Rome.  And then a letter from Doux Heraklios Altuntekin of Paphlagonia-- yes, the descendant of that Doux Altuntekin, the one who put Komitas Branas on the throne-- arrived in the Senate. Next week, we'll see how the Senate voted to respond to Altuntekin's ultimatum. Would they knuckle under and play it safe, or risk it all in a civil war? WORLD MAP, 1453  SENATE VOTE You didn't think all those doukes who have been ruining everything since CK2 would go away just because we're in a different game, did you? How should we respond to Altuntekin's ultimatum?  ##Vote A to accept the ultimatum. Basillike and Hugh will be forced to abdicate, and an emperor of Altuntekin's choosing will be installed. Our government type will change, and we'll lose our factions-- for now-- but the Senate will be permitted to retain power in its current form.  ##Vote B to fight it out! If we defeat the ensuing revolt, everything stays the same-- the Senate stays in power, Basillike stays empress, Hugh stays the heir, and we keep the Byzantine govtype and its factions. If the pretender rebels succeed in installing their claimant, however, the new emperor will purge the Senate, so everyone dies or gets exiled or whatever. Yikes! EDIT: I'm calling this a "Senate Vote", but everyone reading the thread can vote, not just people who joined parties in that last election we had ages ago. Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 11:17 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 11:15
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Can we see how large our current army is/where it's all situated and how much manpower we have stored up?
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Jul 27, 2014 11:28
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B. If Denmark has taught me anything it's run this poo poo into the ground. Also,  at the fact that we really are Rome in name only.
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Jul 27, 2014 11:31
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BwenGun posted:Can we see how large our current army is/where it's all situated and how much manpower we have stored up? That'd make things way too easy on you Senators. 
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Jul 27, 2014 11:31
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gently caress the doukes. Better to fight to the last drop of Roman blood than so much as give one of them an ounce of water in the middle of the desert. (Also, we just got here - immediately losing everything that got modded into the government would be boring.)
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Jul 27, 2014 11:32
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Well, this LP is off to a fantastic start! ##Vote B If Rome is to survive the onslaught of the dasterdly France, it must adapt to the new age. The road to glory is long, and each step is dangerous, but we must keep on stepping! Not So Fast fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 11:37
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##Vote B The Empire didn't get this far thanks to any scheming doukes, especially not these assholes. At the very least it's finally time to put the Altuntekins in their place (graves, preferably.) Typical that we a get a cool thing going on and they want to gently caress it up. 
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Jul 27, 2014 11:42
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 Gentlemen of the Roman army, senators of the Varangian Comission, believers of the New Marians, vanguard of the republic of the senate and the guard of the empress and the empire of Rome, loyalists of it's rightful ruler. This will be the day! Their grip is slipping, they know it, but they do not know how far they have fallen. We shall show them that their threats are empty. We shall show them that they are fools, living in a world that has ended. This is the day of the state, this is the day of true empires. On this day ends the reign of petty nobility forever! B!
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Jul 27, 2014 11:48
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Rincewind posted:That'd make things way too easy on you Senators. With the exception of getting drunk during Senate sessions I don't think anything is easy for the Senate.  But in that case I shall throw caution to the wind and vote: ##Vote B
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Jul 27, 2014 11:49
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##Vote B gently caress the Doukes is right.
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Jul 27, 2014 11:49
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There is a universal constant: gently caress France forever.
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Jul 27, 2014 11:51
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##Vote A Komitas Branas did nothing wrong.
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Jul 27, 2014 12:14
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##Vote B
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Jul 27, 2014 12:18
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##Vote B We saw what happened last time this bastard tried something. Murder the gently caress out of his Rome-destroying arse.
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Jul 27, 2014 12:26
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Shall we allow the remnants of the feudal age to drag us back into obsolescence. No! Reject this ultimatum, and crush the douxes once and for all! B!
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Jul 27, 2014 12:35
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##Vote B Kill the true traitor, dump his corpse onto the Bosphorus Sea, and throw the biggest Triumph since the Old Empire.
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Jul 27, 2014 12:38
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I remember what happened the last time we let the douxes install one of their puppets, and so I say: kill them all. ##Vote B.
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Jul 27, 2014 12:43
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 ##Vote B, we can, in fact, win a civil war. The Church's interests are best served by a central state than by a milliard greedy petty nobles.
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Jul 27, 2014 12:48
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 Hmmm, I think another abdication crises would be much less damaging to the empire than another bloody, expensive and protracted civil war. Which is to say, the Empress has our full confidence. ## Vote B Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 13:00 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 12:57
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Christ almighty, that didn't take long to break down. Well, since this is more of a thread vote than a proper senate vote, I'm going to think about this without my Inclusionist hat on, but even if I did, the answer would probably be the same. The douxes have forever been a threat to stability and progress, and as such, they can not be allowed to get their way. For the defense of the realm, we must go to war. ##Vote B However, with my Inclusionist hat on, I will say that we (well, I, to be more exact, but given that I wrote the charter, I think I can speak for the party) would have advocated stepping down from the war over Savoy (already overextended, already at our diplomatic limit, need to get that poo poo in order first, also more war is never a good thing) and as such would have been in a much better shape to fight this war.
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Jul 27, 2014 13:13
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I never really got the Doux hate.
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Jul 27, 2014 13:25
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##Vote B and gently caress the Doux
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Jul 27, 2014 13:49
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Tevery Best posted:
I can explain to you the Unitas position. The Doux (es?) represent the old order. Feudalism, stagnation, a powerless central government, authority and influence in the hands of petty provincial nobles. In short, everything that is the opposite of a modern nation state. If we wish for Rome to stand triumphant over Europe, if we wish to see the Golden Eagle fly from the Atlantic to the Aral, we cannot afford to regress to feudalism. Even if you don't, a politically stagnant state invites stagnation in the sciences, the arts, and every other aspect of society. Centralization and Modernization! Crush the Douxes!
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Jul 27, 2014 13:49
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Not to mention how much it would suck to immediately return to the CKII status quo after so much work setting up this new government.
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Jul 27, 2014 14:05
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Bastards one and all, not a single legitimate noble amongst these traitors.
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Jul 27, 2014 14:08
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Not to mention, the last time they were in power they lost half the empire.
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Jul 27, 2014 14:10
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I have been a member of the Fraternalist party consistently. Our party line is basically gently caress douxes, get money. B
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Jul 27, 2014 14:11
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NewMars posted:Not to mention, the last time they were in power they lost half the empire. Flesnolk posted:Not to mention how much it would suck to immediately return to the CKII status quo after so much work setting up this new government. These are all true. This is our chance to demonstrate to the world our new Roman Empire. Let us not be found wanting.
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Jul 27, 2014 14:13
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##Vote B
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Jul 27, 2014 15:06
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##Vote B
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Jul 27, 2014 15:26
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Never trust a Branas.
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Jul 27, 2014 15:47
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I vote B.
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Jul 27, 2014 15:52
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 04:19 |
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I still say it was that first Yaroslavovich's fault... A!
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Jul 27, 2014 15:53
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