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Numlock posted:Yeah it probably would depend on what part of the front you were modeling. Yeah, my worry is, while it seems realistic to me, I could see the tanks basically taking themselves out of the game in two turns due to crappy die rolls on the bog checks. Unfortunately I don't have as much innate knowledge of WWI as I do of WWII, and really comes down to the typical hearsay, Blackadder Goes Forth! and that movie about Sgt. York. So, in the name of a fun and expedient game, I should probably keep the craters and mud to a minimum then.
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Jul 25, 2014 14:06
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Tanks getting bogged down early on is pretty realistic for WWI.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:14
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If they are doing early war then there was a bit of fighting that wasn't the stereotypical trench warfare kind of poo poo. Generally this is where most good WWI games like to reside since the trench fighting portions would be pretty awful to simulate and boring as gently caress. Warhammer Historicals: The Great War was a solid game pretty much because it was set right at the dawn of the Great War before the tide of modern warfare had truly set in.
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Jul 26, 2014 11:30
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El Estrago Bonito posted:If they are doing early war then there was a bit of fighting that wasn't the stereotypical trench warfare kind of poo poo. Generally this is where most good WWI games like to reside since the trench fighting portions would be pretty awful to simulate and boring as gently caress. Warhammer Historicals: The Great War was a solid game pretty much because it was set right at the dawn of the Great War before the tide of modern warfare had truly set in. I'm not completely sure about that. I think this partly has to do with how you make the game, and what you choose to portrait. If you are doing trench warfare then yes, the archetypical "both player has 2000 pts., deploy and march forward" method of wargaming probably doesn't work that well. But there were definitely actions even during the trenchiest of trench warfare that were nailbitingly close affairs, which could be done as good wargames if you have the skills for it. This blog has several good entries about WW1 wargaming at 6mm scale: http://philbancients.blogspot.com/
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Jul 26, 2014 12:02
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The other thning you could do is smaller scale skirmishes, trench raids. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_raiding Could be fun as gently caress at 28mm
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Jul 26, 2014 12:06
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El Estrago Bonito posted:If they are doing early war then there was a bit of fighting that wasn't the stereotypical trench warfare kind of poo poo. Generally this is where most good WWI games like to reside since the trench fighting portions would be pretty awful to simulate and boring as gently caress. Warhammer Historicals: The Great War was a solid game pretty much because it was set right at the dawn of the Great War before the tide of modern warfare had truly set in. It's more or less Spring 1918, with a lot of the literature focused on the German offensive and the Allied response. In the two missions included that use trenches, only one side starts in trenches. One battle it's the defenders, and the objectives are the two communication trenches. The second battle, the attacker starts in the trenches, with reserves coming from a flank in the open, and the objectives are in the defender's zone, so the attacker has to leave the trenches to capture it. The third battle has no trenches, with objectives on both sides. The three missions kinda play off each other (Assault the Trench-> You've captured the Trench now assault the Rear-> You've Broken through now keep going!) So they're at least trying to force the game to not bog down into a static face off with both sides just hiding in their trenches. Of course, the magazine goes and throws that all away with a version of the No Man's Land mission which has both sides start in trenches with the objectives placed in, well, No Man's Land.
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Jul 26, 2014 12:47
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I've done some more of my 6mm Napoleonics, this time, the French infantry. Le Mini Grande Battery  240 French Line Infantry, 16 to a base, 15 bases. 
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Jul 26, 2014 15:33
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Nicely done. I really ought to get round to my new 6mm Napoleonic Project. EDIT- you inspired me to dig them out and think about tackle them I opened the boxes (for scale those are WH40k Assault on Black Reach boxes), took a pic and closed them quick. Thats just the Austrians. Ive got as many French. Each one of those 60x30 bases has 24 men on.... 
Serotonin fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 15:52
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How much do you guys spend on a decent, average game-sized army for Flames of War? Bolt Action? Hail Caesar? All of these interest me - it's just a matter of finding the cheapest overall.
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Jul 27, 2014 01:06
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Noctis Horrendae posted:How much do you guys spend on a decent, average game-sized army for Flames of War? Bolt Action? Hail Caesar? All of these interest me - it's just a matter of finding the cheapest overall. tl;dr: It really dependes. I can't speak to Bolt Action or Hail Caesar, but I can talk FoW. Generally speaking, armor is probably the most cost effective way of getting an army to the table for FoW, but you will still spend between $50 - $200 on the army and end up with something that's very inflexible, little to no options, and not going to win very many battles. But there's more than one way to skin a cat or build an army. For example, I'm currently looking to build up some Fallschirmjagers from the Italy book. To get every piece of everything for every option (which is way too spergy, don't do this) it would cost me about $2,180 and that's including the fact that I already own 3 Panthers, 1 Tiger and would use the plastic Grenadiers from the starter set. Otherwise, roughly $2,300 to have a model of every option I could take. There's a lot of doubles and even triples, as it's including artillery being modeled with FJ crews, HG crews, and normal Herr crews. Doing the "I don't care about the crews just the models" would still come out to about $800~$1,000. To run just 1500 points, using the cheapest "appropriate models" would cost me about $182, add $42 for the Panthers I already own. This is also using the $26 DAK 8.8cm set, not the more expensive 8.8 battery box set. So, if you wanted to run my army, from scratch, on the cheap, it would cost you $224 + S&H + tax. e: would probably be cheaper yet if you count in using the starter set plastic Grens for your FJs, and running the StuGs instead of Panthers, and even cheaper yet if you pawn off the allied stuff to someone else.
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Jul 27, 2014 01:20
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What's the standard game size points-wise? I get that that varies from area to area, but I'm just trying to get an idea. Thanks for the detailed response, by the way.
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Jul 27, 2014 01:31
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Noctis Horrendae posted:How much do you guys spend on a decent, average game-sized army for Flames of War? Bolt Action? Hail Caesar? All of these interest me - it's just a matter of finding the cheapest overall. If you go Wargames Factory, you can pick up about thirty American, Soviet, or German late war 28mm figures for about $21. I love the sculpts since they're true-scale, and don't have the Warhammer heroic proportions you sometimes notice in the Warlord stuff. But if you go 1/72, figures drop to about $15 for forty or fifty men. Warlord Games starter boxes are actually a pretty good deal, too. They're frequently sold by discounters, and you can get a platoon plus in 28mm for about a hundred bucks.
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Jul 27, 2014 01:31
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Noctis Horrendae posted:What's the standard game size points-wise? I get that that varies from area to area, but I'm just trying to get an idea. Thanks for the detailed response, by the way. FoW typically 1250 to I think 1685 is what is typical, or what I hear thrown around most often. 1500 is usually the sweat spot, easy-peasy to do and probably 90% of the armies are able to be optioned into 1500 points and be well balanced as a force. 2000 usually starts getting too big, especially if you're taking infantry. e: Bought a Warlord/Bolt Action Pz.II today, because I felt sorry for the poor model having sat on the shelf, neglected, for a year now. And because I always find myself staring at it when I see it, so I figured why not, it looks cool. Let's see if I will regret building a solid resin tank.
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Jul 27, 2014 01:42
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YF19pilot posted:FoW typically 1250 to I think 1685 is what is typical, or what I hear thrown around most often. 1500 is usually the sweat spot, easy-peasy to do and probably 90% of the armies are able to be optioned into 1500 points and be well balanced as a force. 2000 usually starts getting too big, especially if you're taking infantry. Thanks. This sounds a lot cheaper than 40k. Warlord Games seems particularly reasonable - have any of you played Hail Caesar (or any of Warlord's other games - from what I understand they're all reskins of whatever the original game was)?
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Jul 27, 2014 01:53
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Man I don't know how a PzII was getting neglected, unless everyone hates early war. (I know everyone hates early war.)
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Jul 27, 2014 02:37
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Noctis Horrendae posted:Thanks. This sounds a lot cheaper than 40k. Warlord Games seems particularly reasonable - have any of you played Hail Caesar (or any of Warlord's other games - from what I understand they're all reskins of whatever the original game was)? From what I've read, Hail Caesar! can be done in a number of scales. As I've been staring at Baccus for far too long, if you go 6mm, you can get a full army for about 90 bucks (or less, depending on your choice of fielded forces). Haven't played Hail Caesar, but I've read that it's good. Any other goons know the common scales, so that I don't end up giving bad advice?
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Jul 27, 2014 02:38
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Hedningen posted:From what I've read, Hail Caesar! can be done in a number of scales. As I've been staring at Baccus for far too long, if you go 6mm, you can get a full army for about 90 bucks (or less, depending on your choice of fielded forces). Haven't played Hail Caesar, but I've read that it's good. Any other goons know the common scales, so that I don't end up giving bad advice? Yeah, the infantry I posted are part of an army pack that cost me £40. That amount of infantry would cost me about £16 with bases, and is a division worth of troops. They give a great mass effect, the only down side is they are a little fiddly to paint.
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Jul 27, 2014 03:07
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moths posted:Man I don't know how a PzII was getting neglected, unless everyone hates early war. I love early war. So many fun little machines. This is my first Bolt Action miniature, too. Nobody else loves early war. And apparently there were only ever two people actually playing it at my LGS, and they've become burned out on it.
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Jul 27, 2014 03:14
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6mm is definitely in the "cheap as chips" area, same with 1/72. This is a Napoleonics 6mm starter army from Baccus, and I haven't even painted all of it yet:  Basically enough to get started with any Napoleonic ruleset, though we used Lasalle. It will set you back £35. Want to add an entire cavalry wing? £15 and change. It's a dangerous thing, and if you can skip a beer or two one every month and punt that money into miniatures, you'll afford far more than you can handle painting. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 04:04
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I don't think I could handle painting anything less than 10mm.
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Jul 27, 2014 04:23
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lilljonas posted:6mm is definitely in the "cheap as chips" area, same with 1/72. The dangers of smaller scales are great - just picked up enough 6mm stuff for some GNW action, and I'm already looking at sculpting some of my own stuff for Hordes of the Things, which, while not exactly a purely historical game, will finally allow me to run a combined campaign for Zelazny's Amber series. It's basically historical in design and earlier intent, so it might count in this thread, but I'll keep updates in a different thread. Did a test game of Bleys and Corwin's battle in Arden, which was great fun, even with no real pieces on the field. 6mm appears to be a dangerous drug.
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Jul 27, 2014 05:22
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Noctis Horrendae posted:I don't think I could handle painting anything less than 10mm. Often said in this thread, but as often said by me and liljonas, 6mm is the easiest scale to paint. If you search my posts in this thread I've posted a lot of my 6mm including painting tips and works in progress. Eg http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3248082&userid=24506#post370811385 Serotonin fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 07:45
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Prices for FoW go down considerably if you are willing to use other companies 15mm stuff. My Russian Marines force is probably 3x the size of my Estonian SS, Tunisian Tigers and Jewish Brigade forces but cost me considerably less. Well, the Tigers were probably around the same price but you get a lot less bang for your buck. FoW points around here are usually either 1250 or 1500, depending on who you ask. I or someone else can outline to you what the cheapest and most cost effective forces are if you take all manufacturers into account (and what are the cheapest if you don't). I got into FoW starting with the all Tiger force (it used to have its own little booklet). I got the Tiger Box and then some SS dudes as backup and a couple Nebelwerfers and that gave me a playable force for around 150 in past-times dollars. How much cash you drop on FoW depends largely on what army you want to play and what flavor of that army you like.
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Jul 27, 2014 08:12
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Grey Hunter posted:Cross posting from the Oath thread, as there are far to many WWII posts in here. Have some Napoleonic Redcoats! That's a whole Baccus starter pack. The line inf the first picture covers 2 feet
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Jul 27, 2014 08:54
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Grey Hunter posted:That's a whole Baccus starter pack. The line inf the first picture covers 2 feet Awesome! Deploying 6mm armies is great. This is like, just a few bases lined up in front of each other. I have to combine all my 28mm minis to get the same effect:   And to second Serotonin, painting these is actually quite simple. It is more of a question of perseverance than precision, as you will paint simple things (like an orange spot that covers an entire hand) many times (like 1600 times, if you are painting 400 line troops and you're doing a basic colour followed by a smaller, highlighting spot). If you want to you can make it as hard as you want. If you choose a simple subject, like WW1, you can probably get away with just two or even three colours followed by a wash, and it will still look ok. Or you can be stupid and choose subjects with intricate uniforms and heraldry like say, Napoleonics or Samurai. If you are stupid, that is.  As for WW2, at our club we're just about to get our feet wet with Early War in 28mm. We're going to start out with Chain of Command, which seems to not require many miniatures at all. My German force will basically be a box or Warlord Games plastic infantry and three plastic 1/48 model kits (a Pz. II, a Sd.Kfz.232 and a Sd. Kfz. 222). The vehicles ran up to £50 with shipping, and I look forward to many sessions of early war troops shooting inefficiently at badly armoured cars before I'll need to expand on that collection. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 09:22
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All this 6mm talk and me opening up those massive boxes of Austrians has got me an itch I need to scracth. Trouble is Im deliberating on how best to tackle Austrians. For those who aint into Napoleonics, they were white uniforms. Ive got a pack of the lovely Foundry Austrian White triad (a sort of just off white colour) but now wondering how I might go about it. I could use my tried and tested method I used on my Brits and French as detailed above or I could try something else. Wondering about airbrushing them all the mid tone, washing with black, drybrushing them the highlight tone, then detailing. Could work.
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Jul 27, 2014 09:57
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Serotonin posted:All this 6mm talk and me opening up those massive boxes of Austrians has got me an itch I need to scracth. I'd do two samples: one where I paint them midtone, wash brown, and then pick out the highlights. One where I paint them midtone, wash black, and then pick out highlights. If either of them look fine, I'd go with that. If both look awful, I would paint the midtone, wash, go back with midtone, and then highlight. Because I am insane. e: and hate myself. e2: that said, if you prime them with a light grey, you might be able to pull off something like this: prime light grey, wash, pick out details with white. That sounds pretty fast, but I'm not sure if it would look good. e3: this thread has some ideas from people with experience. Some sound reasonable, some sound awful: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=176132 lilljonas fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 10:04
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OK test time. Stip on left, was base coated Austrian White shade, washed with black, dry brushed up to white, then detailed Strip on right was myt usual method, undercoat black, blob on base colour and 1 highlight, detail  I much prefer the one on the right, and it was actually much quicker. Obviously its a rush job, and the details arent finished yet, but it gives an idea. Serotonin fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 11:06
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Serotonin posted:undercoat black This is the way to go. I'm not up for an effort post on black primer at the moment, but the short version is drybrush a darker shade, the shade you want, and a lighter shade in layers. Since large areas of color don't get submerged in color, the black primer at the edges shows through, and gives you a fantastic outline and shadows. Drybrushing is also faster because you aren't putting as much paint down at once, so it dries much faster than wash or even regular painting. Come to the dark side.
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Jul 27, 2014 11:46
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mllaneza posted:This is the way to go. I'm not up for an effort post on black primer at the moment, but the short version is drybrush a darker shade, the shade you want, and a lighter shade in layers. Since large areas of color don't get submerged in color, the black primer at the edges shows through, and gives you a fantastic outline and shadows. Drybrushing is also faster because you aren't putting as much paint down at once, so it dries much faster than wash or even regular painting. Mate Ive been painting 6mm with black undercoat for about 7 years, just search this thread. I was just seeing if another method would work.
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Jul 27, 2014 11:53
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Hey Colonial- its happening at last! http://www.warlordgames.com/pre-order-rebellion-free-miniature/
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Jul 27, 2014 12:06
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Serotonin posted:Hey Colonial- its happening at last! Yeah! There's an ad for it in this month's WI, I just forgot to post about it. That's a nice mini, too, looks like a guy I know.
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Jul 27, 2014 12:30
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Colonial Air Force posted:Yeah! There's an ad for it in this month's WI, I just forgot to post about it. Reminds me, I still have a Colonial army in my closet in 10mm, still in its bag. Should do something with that
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Jul 27, 2014 12:48
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Someday when I am done with them I'll show off the entire army of Diadochi Macedonians that I did with white undercoats and weathering powder. Had to switch brands of paint for all the metallics tho because the stuff I had been using just was too thick. I want to like 6mm but 15 is so much better in my mind that I find it hard. Especially with how many companies are making really good 15mm stuff these days. I have to constantly fight my obsession with the 1600's and prevent myself from painting full forces of Swedes and Imperialists.
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Jul 27, 2014 13:01
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I love resin. The holes on the hull of the PzII don't line up with the pegs on the tracks. e: Actually, I think the tracks are too big for the hull. Like they're a few mm too long, so nothing really lines up right. CovfefeCatCafe fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 14:23
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YF19pilot posted:I love resin. The holes on the hull of the PzII don't line up with the pegs on the tracks. This is one of the reasons why I went with Tamiya's 1/48 kits. Resin has its uses, but I prefer plastic kits for vehicles. Serotonin: I agree, the right one looks better. Your painting style for 6mm looks quite similar to mine, black primer and highlights looks spiffy in the end.
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Jul 27, 2014 14:55
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Resin really only works if it's cast as one piece, trying to make multi-part resin kits is a nightmare.
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Jul 27, 2014 15:04
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lilljonas posted:
Well it would seeing as I was the evil bugger that encouraged you into 6mm back at the dawn of this thread. :P
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Jul 27, 2014 15:31
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Serotonin posted:Well it would seeing as I was the evil bugger that encouraged you into 6mm back at the dawn of this thread. :P "You bastard!" were the last words heard from lilljonas, as the avalance of a myriad of miniscule metal men buried him forever.
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Jul 27, 2014 15:36
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Wargamers die when everything they own is painted.
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Jul 27, 2014 15:39
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