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To make a dumb post 'cause I don't understand the game nearly well enough to join this discussion: I decided to mess about in a skirmish against bots with really gimped decks 'cause the people I've been learning to play with are all gone for the week. They still pushed my poo poo in    ...until the bridges got so clogged up with tanks that they physically couldn't attack me (they suicided all their planes and helicopters on my AA in the first 5 minutes, which I'm going to say is why I got pushed back and not because I'm really bad).  then pretty much nothing happened for half an hour, until I called in four players worth of infantry and helicopters and flew them over forests full of AA until I killed all the command vehicles. I haven't decided whether I was enjoying myself of bored to tears but it is not an experience I particularly want to repeat.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:30
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 06:11 |
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Is that Total Destruction mode?! 
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Jul 31, 2014 22:36
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Total destruction against bots is great if you like watching things blow up. Edit: Okay, I should put actual information into this post. Yes, destruction mode with no point or time limit lasts until you find all their CVs. Now, since you were just bombing the cheap spam to pieces anyway, what do you mean when you say they pushed your poo poo in? Pirate Radar fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 22:40
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Yeah, the AI gets some serious income boosts, even on lower difficulties I think. I can't play Conquest against the AI because I always get overwhelmed by waaay more units than they should have early in the game. Or maybe I just suck. Also possible 
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Jul 31, 2014 23:01
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Yeah I did a total destruction with no point income once (i.e. you only fight with what you get at the start) against medium AIs and they fielded like three times as much as we did I think.Chantilly Say posted:Edit: Okay, I should put actual information into this post. Yes, destruction mode with no point or time limit lasts until you find all their CVs. Now, since you were just bombing the cheap spam to pieces anyway, what do you mean when you say they pushed your poo poo in? I mean I was being kind of hyperbolic but they just fielded so much poo poo that until the bridges got clogged up, every one of my tanks would be up against like fifty of theirs (which is a lot even if mine are from the 90s and theirs are from WW2). I was constantly running out of ammo, my supply vehicles were getting annihilated by planes (incidentally seeing 20 AI planes barreling into you the second you bring in any kind of helicopter, AA emplacements be damned, is really a sight to behold), plus I'm not really very good. In my defense it was four very hard AIs against one me; the gimping I did was to "just" give them really terrible units and no artillery. And I got to field four players worth of units; using four blackbirds at once was fun I recommend it to everybody. (until I lost two of them like an idiot  )
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Jul 31, 2014 23:12
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If you come play on Mumble we can tell you what you might be doing poorly, or post a deck you're using and we can give some advice on what you're taking.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:25
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I've been playing with goons on Mumble on and off ever since ALB and I'd like some advice on some of my decks if possible.   Some advice on how to build openings would be very helpful, since my openings usually end very badly.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:50
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Chantilly Say posted:If you come play on Mumble we can tell you what you might be doing poorly, or post a deck you're using and we can give some advice on what you're taking. Oh thanks that'd be helpful! I was just messing about in that game I posted but these are the main ones I use as Redfor and Blufor (I was trying to do support for a long time but recently found I do much better with mechanized). I play with three other people and one of them likes bringing a bunch of artillery so I don't bother with it, but otherwise this is meant to kind of stand up on its own- we've tried to be interdependent and support each other a ton but found in practice it doesn't tend to work out that way.   I don't really want to play in a game with goons 'cause my friends and I are all trying to keep at roughly the same pace, but playing against one (and getting curbstomped- we still almost always lose to pubbies) would probably be really helpful sometime if we got feedback after.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:57
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Those decks are ample proof that just because you can take a whole lot of a thing, does not mean that you should take a whole lot of a thing. When the hell are you ever going to use all those bloody vehicles in the vehicle tab? Especially given that some are simply worse versions of others e.g. the M113s with the TOWs. Reconsider those slots.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:08
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I burn through my TOW vehicles like crazy.  I don't use the tanks in that tab though, you're right, but what kind of thing should I replace them with?
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Aug 1, 2014 00:14
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Koramei posted:I burn through my TOW vehicles like crazy. Either the I-TOW version or the TOW2 jeep. The regular TOW is too weak to do what you need it to do: dent heavy tanks your K1s can't handle on their own.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:18
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Koramei posted:Oh thanks that'd be helpful! I was just messing about in that game I posted but these are the main ones I use as Redfor and Blufor (I was trying to do support for a long time but recently found I do much better with mechanized). I play with three other people and one of them likes bringing a bunch of artillery so I don't bother with it, but otherwise this is meant to kind of stand up on its own- we've tried to be interdependent and support each other a ton but found in practice it doesn't tend to work out that way. Haha sure--we can probably see about that. Blue Dragons mechanized: LOG--Fine. INF--Do you find yourself using that many MANPADS? I'd drop the Redeyes and at least one card of Stingers and get two cards of JPN/ROK line inf: one, a card of basic line inf in a plain APC, and two, a card of the JPN line inf in the nice transport. You have a mechanized deck with no autocannons right now, make the most of it and bring more. JPN gets a decent little IFV with autocannon, two ATGMs, and good armor. SUP--Bring a card of one of the higher-end IR AA units like the TAN-SAM if you can get that in Mechanized. It'll give you more range against helos. (edit: I just checked in-game and you can't get the Tan-Sam but you can get the Biho or the Guntank. Bring a card of either.) TNK--Looks fine. I like bringing those Japanese tanks with the 40mm on top but if you're already bringing that capability in your IFVs you don't necessarily need to add those. REC--I might add more recon here, but I tend to bring more recon in a deck than I end up using. VHC--These spam units are going to be good at annoying an opponent and drawing cluster arty fire on top of their heads. Do you really go through all of those in a game? Jinkies. HEL--Probably fine as is. Blue Dragons aren't helo standouts. PLA--If you trim VHC you can probably fit some more useful planes in here. What you already have are good choices; if you add another consider an iron bomber or a napalm plane. Chinese mechanized: LOG--Probably fine for now; think about dropping a card of Mi-6s and taking an armored CV. INF--It's missing inexpensive filler infantry. If you swap the basic Li Jians out for a card of line inf in a cheap transport you'll be more versatile. SUP--Looks okay. TNK--Looks okay. REC--Probably okay. VHC--China's VHC tab is strong so it's good that you're bringing a lot here, though you could probably drop a card or two of the RR vehicles to free up some activation points and not lose a lot of capability. HEL--Drop a card of the HOT helos for something with rockets, like the Mi-8 Gunship or the DPRK Hind. Rockets are great. PLA--Veterancy isn't so important for bombers, so think about taking the two rookie Q-5Ds instead of the one veteran. Pirate Radar fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 00:21
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Koramei posted:I burn through my TOW vehicles like crazy. Planes, like others have mentioned. Basically, you just have to think about how you play and what kinds of things you end up wishing you had or had more of each game. Also, for your infantry, do you really need all your Lijian in helicopters? You could take one card helicopters for your opener, and a second card in ground transport for operations after the initial land grab. Mixing up your transports in this manner can give you some flexibility.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:46
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Minenfeld! posted:Planes, like others have mentioned. Basically, you just have to think about how you play and what kinds of things you end up wishing you had or had more of each game. Also, for your infantry, do you really need all your Lijian in helicopters? You could take one card helicopters for your opener, and a second card in ground transport for operations after the initial land grab. Mixing up your transports in this manner can give you some flexibility. I would specifically cut four cards from that VHC tab and bring the napalm F-5 or one of the iron-bomber F-4s. The ROK one gets more bombs but the JPN one gets A->A missiles so it can fight planes in a pinch. Your choice.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:55
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Dave47 posted:Vasily's spreadsheet may be wrong, but I am reading it correctly. Units with armor 1 take half damage from AP and HEAT shells compared to units with armor 0. Oh I see what you mean. Yes. 0 armour takes double AP damage, no HE protection though. Rather You were defining the 0AV level as 1x Damage and I was defining 2AV as 1x Damage.
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Aug 1, 2014 02:14
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Yohan posted:I've been playing with goons on Mumble on and off ever since ALB and I'd like some advice on some of my decks if possible. The two deck issues I see are minor, but maybe important. You have no supply choppers, and you have no fast wheeled/armored recon. Maybe your openings are falling apart because when your helicopter recon gets shut down, you don't have any to keep pace with an attacking force. And when your heli recon survives, and your push succeeds, you can't re-supply quickly enough to press the advantage? I feel like I have the same problems. Watch replays I guess to find out the problem.
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Aug 1, 2014 02:46
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JeffersonClay posted:The two deck issues I see are minor, but maybe important. You have no supply choppers, and you have no fast wheeled/armored recon. Maybe your openings are falling apart because when your helicopter recon gets shut down, you don't have any to keep pace with an attacking force. And when your heli recon survives, and your push succeeds, you can't re-supply quickly enough to press the advantage? My issues with openings aren't a lack of supply but that my units get picked apart. I go for 2 SPAAGs & AAMs, a top tank with some low tier tanks, heli recon and whatever infantry I can afford. I'll have to take another look at the recon tab, I suppose. I put down my supply helicopters when I had to resupply Wiesels midway a map with them, which was quite annoying.
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Aug 1, 2014 03:58
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The first DLC patch finally arrived: http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=155&t=47329
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Aug 1, 2014 12:27
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They snuck another Tunguska price increase in there, pubbies pretty unhappy about that.
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Aug 1, 2014 12:56
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With planes and ATGMs back in play, and the napalm/cluster artillery toned down, it probably means that the tank rampage is over.
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Aug 1, 2014 12:59
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Tunguskas are actually worth 80 points now though because the gun wrecks poo poo. They're not Chaps anymore.quote:- French Commandos-para displayed training changed from elite to shock (no stat modification) Commandos Para no longer exist I see. Praga and Strop 1 desperately needed those nerfs and now that AAA is so powerful it deserved to have its accuracy walked back a bit. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 13:59
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So the one time Eugen breaks their 'don't patch on Friday' rule, they push a patch that causes access violation crashes in practically every game. 
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Aug 1, 2014 15:09
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What the hell did the Czechs do to France to have Eugen nerf their AA so hard? None of the other AA in the game got hit that hard.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:31
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ArchRanger posted:What the hell did the Czechs do to France to have Eugen nerf their AA so hard? None of the other AA in the game got hit that hard. The Strop 2 was murder on wheels for 50pts after the autocannon buff. We'll see if this feels about right. Now: quote:- ATGM behavior tweaked (not "reverted back") to avoid constant miss at certain distances while keepping multiple rolls (which prevents some exploits) What exploits were those?
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Aug 1, 2014 16:49
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I never got word on what the supposed exploits where, I imagine they where trying to keep it under wraps until they could nip it in the bud. Well I would like this patch a lot more if the game didn't crash on the regular. I'm kind of amazed at how much poo poo they manage to break with these patches. How do they miss this stuff? ATGM's being actually usable is nice, had some good games tossing all sorts of Kobra and Reflex around. Soviet Armored is actually rather playable, and fun!
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Aug 1, 2014 17:18
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How come Gepards didnt get a nerf like everybody else?
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Aug 1, 2014 17:18
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I think it's because West Germany's AA choices are so limited. And there's no non-radar version. The Czech AAA needed a nerf because none of it was radar and it was very deadly for cost. The STROP 1 and Praga were particular offenders with their low cost and high damage potential. The STROP 2 performing like a Tunguska or PGZ-95 but without the vulnerability of radar for only 50 points was a noticeable outlier on the points/value scale too. ZSU-27 in particular needed a big nerf, they were about as deadly as a pre-patch Shilka but again without radar and for lower cost. I really do think this is all an understandable tweak. AAA will still be deadlier than it was before the DLC but ZSU-27s and 1950s AA HMGs will no longer be shooting down 1980s strike fighters. As it should be. The Tunguska price nerf is a bit galling but as I said you're no longer just paying for the missiles. That gun is deadly, not only to air but to any infantry or light vehicles that get with 1000 meters. Today I saw a couple Fla 256 being used like a support gun in an opening and they pulled double duty quite effectively. Both heli infantry and wheeled transports got hosed up while redfor infantry rolled into the town.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:17
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GoLambo posted:Soviet Armored is actually rather playable, and fun! Looks like it's time for Red Army Choir Trip to come out of retirement! 
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Aug 1, 2014 18:18
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My gut feeling after glancing at the changes are the stat changes are probably mostly okay. Pricing changes are a bit questionable. Availability nerf on the tungs is bullshit though.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:27
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I have to say I really despise the SPAAG change so far. Helicopters are so utterly hosed that the only time helicopters are working for me is my US airborne deck because I don't expect those helicopters to do anything productive. though it'd probably be less frustrating if they'd unsuck helo ai. Also I would trade everything DDR got for getting 10 point BMPs back 
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Aug 1, 2014 18:41
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There's definitely some spots on Cliff Hanger with ridges where your helicopters can pop over and be dead within 2 seconds now because AAA is so wicked.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:49
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Yay, crash fix patch! I'm getting the impression the game is a bit too generous with activation points. I can always get everything I want in general purpose decks. If I make a specialized deck I have so many points after adding what I actually need that most of them is just random filler I might as well have. That kinda means the extra activation points isn't much of a perk.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:44
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Elukka posted:I'm getting the impression the game is a bit too generous with activation points. I can always get everything I want in general purpose decks. If I make a specialized deck I have so many points after adding what I actually need that most of them is just random filler I might as well have. That kinda means the extra activation points isn't much of a perk. It really is. Even 50 for mixed nato/pact is more than enough.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:50
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Panzeh posted:It really is. Even 50 for mixed nato/pact is more than enough. Agreed. If I had my druthers, I'd probably drop the baseline AP by 3-5 points.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:56
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We went over this months ago. AP means nothing because infantry and support are limited to five slots. You rarely need more than 3-4 in any other category.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:08
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Oh my god I'm terrible all of a sudden.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:10
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I'm seeing lots of try lobbies full of armored and airborne decks. Has the new meta really revived specializing? I haven't played in about 5 days.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:42
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A vetted helo rush to reach the middle first followed by vetted tanks does seem like a good strategy.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:12
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In my view, a good 4v4 NATO team would be: *Min/maxed Bluefor Airborne (handpicks the most cost effective sector-rushing opener) *West German Armoured (great tanks & availabily, plus good AA and Panzergens in Marders) *UK/Commonwealth general *USA (maybe support) Airborne and armoured combine their powers and go for the +1 lead, then the airborne player keeps bombing the crap out of determined efforts by the opponent to organize while the armoured player maintains a strong tank force. The USA player takes the 'easy' zone and provides boondoggles such as ATACs and whatever, myabe provide extra fighters at the start. The British player (or another decent self-sufficient deck) solos his side and keeps up the pressure away from the main attack.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:20
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 06:11 |
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Ok so here's a set of decks to work together. You could just import all four of them and then everybody can choose one when you wander into a 4v4. I call it Team: gently caress You Dad. Bluefor Airborne  In this deck you can make a pretty cost effective opener with the Stormers in Hueys, being shock troops for 35pts. It's not necessary to get your infantry there first, since you have to clear out the enemy jets and AA choppers anyway so 15pts heli transports are fine. Celtics have the best AA missiles, you need to be careful that they don't use up all their ammo on overkill against a single enemy chopper, and micro them appropriately. You need a recon chopper to see what's coming. You can also bring rocket Lynx or Heavy Hogs along to blow up wheeled transports and infantry. For the rest of the match you have a million vetted planes, Apaches and some ground troops to bring on to make sure your armourbro doesn't get overwhelmed. West German Armoured  All the tanks are elite which means they hardly ever miss. The main threat is helicopters, AGM planes and being slow when the match starts. If things go wrong you can lose a lot of expensive units very quickly, so it's important to work with another player to avoid being overwhelmed. You need to check for enemy recon to make sure your heavy tanks can chill out in cover without dying. You need to make sure that your mass of armour is enough to fight the inevitable armoured player on the other team. When AGM planes come calling make sure to reverse away from them to present frontal armour; this means your heavies tanks will generally take two shots to kill instead of one. UK General  Can fight anywhere with good & cost effective units. You want to be careful to avoid getting wiped out, while keeping up the pressure. Methodically applying pressure to draw in opposing reinforcements is the goal, so you should always be prepared against panic air-spam and counter attacks by the opponent. USA Support  I'm not so sure about this, but something has to be done about the Pact artillery. Also the airborne player might need extra planes and helicopters at the start. This deck also has lots of AA and AGM planes to support the armour player, since knocking out super-heavies has a big impact on the strength of opposing tank forces. ATACM can also be used for killing artillery and super heavies. 1 airborne XrAwwPUTIabUD8FLQGAbw1C3hqGOhPUdCeHkrAQ7aVg1MBBqYByk5SLEmCxi6etEWhpM3JYzVpqtUuqfl4mv5hMtJVvLOVZKP3GykJSEMLK/gA== 2 armoured HjAZs8xTZ5imzqRp52KJHpGQ1YZnzD1TIJkERqltHchNUvFaSw4xhFkiNSFQ9ViIxI3ALeNblsIecO+HlDOhoKP1ISkJxsML 3 general DvAdEo6yykfVlbrN0J6boTwXsIEwK6xF5CQZ3WlF4iOhm5DkhWIvkLxjSHMjChmlhu8Rdou43Wo/UhKQnGxj5D2QgA== 4 support BlAc6AwBDJIVkrALJWAWTMAYHUxOIwCQ5KKVnTCJXVRCp9SmaES/oNEvQqt1oLoFxuyySwxcYukDSxKP1ISkJxsY+attW3qT1JIQ02A= I guess a mechanized deck would be nice in some places too, but since we keep losing the opener I'm inclined to try airborne and get that out of the way and worry about winning the match after we aren't losing all the time in the first 5 minutes. Mukip fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 23:26
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