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Speaking of Gohan, TFS, movies and something probably not technically relevant to the thread during the Lord Slug abridged film he goes WOLVERINES! and I have no idea what that is a reference to. Googling wolverines meme just gives me stuff like Wolverine lovingly stroking a picture of dickbutt. Also I think TFS has made me laugh at the worse movies, since they just go so good abridged.
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Aug 1, 2014 06:33
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Spiderdrake posted:Speaking of Gohan, TFS, movies and something probably not technically relevant to the thread during the Lord Slug abridged film he goes WOLVERINES! and I have no idea what that is a reference to. Googling wolverines meme just gives me stuff like Wolverine lovingly stroking a picture of dickbutt. It's the war cry of the teens in Red Dawn, a movie from the eighties(and remade a few years ago) about the USA being invaded. It's their school football team.
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Aug 1, 2014 06:35
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So, I was just rewatching Goku(and friends) vs Vegeta for the first time in a long, long time. It's really, really good, still. I really like how both sides of the fight are being held together by spit and prayers (and spite, in Vegeta's case) by the end - you never really see that again in Dragonball. Goku vs Freeza ends with an exhausted Freeza being casually dismissed by a Goku who could kill him on a whim, Gohan vs Cell is a one-on-one the whole way through and ends with both sides blasting at each other with everything they've got, and Buu loving never even slowed down until he got Spirit Bombed. Here, however, the good guys get so wasted that loving Yajirobe has to march into battle. And the bad guy gets so wasted that he can't instantly dust the bastard. Almost gives you a new respect for Vegeta. There's something like three seperate times in the fight where he should have been done, and yet he keeps on trucking out of sheer spite. Cutting off Gohan's tail while, again, weak enough to get embarassed by Yajirobe almost seems like his crowning acheivement. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 06:54
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I love that fight because of the reactions from the heroes. Vegeta took what was at the time an incredible and unprecedented amount of punishment and kept getting back up. No one could believe it. He couldn't believe they'd beaten him that badly and they couldn't believe he was still alive.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:07
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Spiritus Nox posted:So, I was just rewatching Goku(and friends) vs Vegeta for the first time in a long, long time. It's really, really good, still. I really like how both sides of the fight are being held together by spit and prayers (and spite, in Vegeta's case) by the end - you never really see that again in Dragonball. Goku vs Freeza ends with an exhausted Freeza being casually dismissed by a Goku who could kill him on a whim, Gohan vs Cell is a one-on-one the whole way through and ends with both sides blasting at each other with everything they've got, and Buu loving never even slowed down until he got Spirit Bombed. Here, however, the good guys get so wasted that loving Yajirobe has to march into battle. And the bad guy gets so wasted that he can't instantly dust the bastard. You do know Yajirobe was strong right? He was fighting the guy that one shot Krillen (not thats saying much but at that point it was) when he was introduced. So he was near Goku's strength when he beat the original Piccolo. Then he trained with Korin or whatever. quote:Yajirobe's next major appearance is in the Vegeta Saga where he trains with Kami and Mr. Popo on Kami's Lookout. Yajirobe easily defeats Krillin while sparring at Kami's Lookout, all the while eating and moving nonchalantly; he then fights "seriously" after Krillin tells him to.[5] After training, Kami tells the Z Fighters that all of them have surpassed both Mr. Popo and himself. His power level during the battle against Vegeta is 970 Kild fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 07:17
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Kild posted:You do know Yajirobe was strong right? He was fighting the guy that one shot Krillen (not thats saying much but at that point it was) when he was introduced. So he was near Goku's strength when he beat the original Piccolo. Then he trained with Korin or whatever. Fucker was going up a guy whose idea of a significant exertion was blowing up a planet, being able to one-shot one of King Piccolo's goons doesn't really count for much in that context.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:22
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Spiritus Nox posted:Fucker was going up a guy whose idea of a significant exertion was blowing up a planet, being able to one-shot one of King Piccolo's goons doesn't really count for much in that context. Sure but he was probably the 4th strongest after Goku, Piccolo, and Gohan.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:26
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I don't remember the Saiyan fight numbers offhand, but I know that Piccolo and Tien were the two strongest. Yajirobe may have been stronger than Yamcha, but that was already not saying much. I think it was probably Goku > Piccolo = Tien > Krillin > Gohan > Yajirobe
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Aug 1, 2014 07:55
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Yajirobe didn't train at all, did he? I always thought he was completely insignificant by the time Z came around. That made it all the more amazing when I watched through Kai, because I completely forgot about him slashing Vegeta again at the end.
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Aug 1, 2014 09:46
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I don't think Yajirobi was all that strong. He killed Cymbal, but wasn't Cymbal a lot weaker than Tambourine? And part of the reason Tambourine killed Krillen was because he got the drop on him, plus Krillen was still tired from the tournament. So Yajirobi killing Cymbal isn't proof of anything except that he's stronger than average. And as for the short fight between Goku and Yajirobi, Goku didn't seem to be going at it all that hard. But when Tambourine showed up, Goku went all out and killed him easy. I doubt Yajirobi could've done that.
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Aug 1, 2014 10:59
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Blue Star posted:I don't think Yajirobi was all that strong. He killed Cymbal, but wasn't Cymbal a lot weaker than Tambourine? And part of the reason Tambourine killed Krillen was because he got the drop on him, plus Krillen was still tired from the tournament. So Yajirobi killing Cymbal isn't proof of anything except that he's stronger than average. And as for the short fight between Goku and Yajirobi, Goku didn't seem to be going at it all that hard. But when Tambourine showed up, Goku went all out and killed him easy. I doubt Yajirobi could've done that. He was still stronger than Tenshinhan for that arc, and that's all that matters.
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Aug 1, 2014 11:41
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Saiyan Saga ruled. Edit: apart from Snake Way
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Aug 1, 2014 11:55
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Blue Star posted:I don't think Yajirobi was all that strong. He killed Cymbal, but wasn't Cymbal a lot weaker than Tambourine? And part of the reason Tambourine killed Krillen was because he got the drop on him, plus Krillen was still tired from the tournament. So Yajirobi killing Cymbal isn't proof of anything except that he's stronger than average. And as for the short fight between Goku and Yajirobi, Goku didn't seem to be going at it all that hard. But when Tambourine showed up, Goku went all out and killed him easy. I doubt Yajirobi could've done that. Tambourine also wasted Goku shortly after he killed Krillin and probably could kill Yamcha too. Not super relevant to your points but all of Piccolo's children were considered a threat outside of Piano.
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Aug 1, 2014 13:40
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See, this is one of the many reasons the Saiyan Bullshit Retcon annoys me. Tambourine beat an extremely weak Goku who had just been in the hardest fight of his life. Now going just on Dragon Ball, when Goku fought him again, he'd still be at the same level as he was when he fought Tien. But when you factor in DBZ and Zenkai, do we assume Goku after getting thrashed by Tambourine is substantially stronger? If so, then determining exactly how strong Tambourine was becomes problematic. He beat only a bunch of old weaklings from the 21st Tournament and a weakened Goku and Krillin. Then a much stronger Goku beat him easily. Frickin' retcons. Frickin' power levels.
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Aug 1, 2014 13:55
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StrifeHira posted:That's basically how I took it as well. The funky issue is that Movie 12 contains references to almost every prior movie as well as series stuff (Bojack, various minions from the first three movies, etc.), so it makes it even more messed up.
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Aug 1, 2014 14:44
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The pre-BotG movies, anime filler and GT take place in an alternate What If universe.
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Aug 1, 2014 14:59
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NikkolasKing posted:See, this is one of the many reasons the Saiyan Bullshit Retcon annoys me. gently caress, you're right. I forgot Goku was still weak from the tournament. One thing I've learned about from this thread is my DB knowledge isn't what it used to be. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing
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Aug 1, 2014 15:06
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It's probably a good thing. I grew up with the DBZ craze and was totally obsessed with it just like everyone else. I tuned in religiously to every episode even as it took a few months for five minutes to pass. I was heartbroken when Vegeta didn't get to be immortal since I was rooting for him over those pussy good guys. These days though...I want so badly not to care but I can't help myself. I don't want to give a poo poo about power levels but every power level discussion invariably draws me in. I give stuff like Inuyasha a pass due to nostalgia but DBZ is something I objectively dislike and see no value in but I watch it anyway because I've been brainwashed. This is the kind of person my generation has become. I don't want to be that person. loving Vegeta as one of the best villains ever? Beating out Father and Griffith? The whole list is just a mishmash of popular shounen and seinen anyway. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 16:10
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Why would you dislike Dragon Ball? It's seriously one of the best manga ever made, for various reasons (the anime...ehhhh).
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Aug 1, 2014 16:11
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I could see saying it was one of the best manga ever if there was no Part 2/"Z". Saiyan Saga and beyond do not live up to the quality before it in my humble opinion.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:18
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NikkolasKing posted:It's probably a good thing. I grew up with the DBZ craze and was totally obsessed with it just like everyone else. I tuned in religiously to every episode even as it took a few months for five minutes to pass. I was heartbroken when Vegeta didn't get to be immortal since I was rooting for him over those pussy good guys. Dante is a better villain than Father anyway.  NikkolasKing posted:I could see saying it was one of the best manga ever if there was no Part 2/"Z". Saiyan Saga was actually one of the better arcs; it had genuinely tense fights where things like tactics and teamwork still mattered. I would say the Freeza Saga was the actual shark-jumping point.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:19
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Sayian Saga was great because at least it was before Akira decided everyone was loving useless except Goku. Raditz may have been a joke but at least back then just because Raditz was a higher power level doesn't mean it was over. Granted yeah Gohan head butted machine his rear end but I enjoyed the fight for what it was. Also you caring about power levels is bad.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:27
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Powerlevels are amazing simply because the manga outright tells you how useless they actually are to determine anything, yet nerd continuously get angry about them and make up lists with absolutely idiotically large numbers.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:36
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Silver2195 posted:Dante is a better villain than Father anyway. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those Brotherhood snobs who turned their back on the anime they had loved for seven years but I do prefer Father over Dante simply because I think he makes the story work better. The whole backstory with Xerxes, his giant evil plan for Amestris, it makes all the pieces come together better than with Dante. I liked Dante's totally selfish personality though. She was just a grade-a bitch and was great. The first anime definitely had better characters on the whole. IMO of course.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:42
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Shindragon posted:Sayian Saga was great because at least it was before Akira decided everyone was loving useless except Goku. Raditz may have been a joke but at least back then just because Raditz was a higher power level doesn't mean it was over. To be fair, the rest of the cast starts to become less relevant in fights back in dragonball during the piccolo daimao arc. In fact, the Saiyan saga is slightly better in that regard, since everyone got to prepare for Vegeta and Nappa's arrival, versus Goku not even telling anyone about Piccolo Jr. until before he fought him.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:27
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We just had this conversation a few weeks ago, but Android-Cell saga was the villains turning earlier tropes on their head against the stronger heroes, and Buu was an extension of this, with the series making fun of itself and going back to its more comedic roots. The Z half was great as a conclusion to the whole thing - I read the whole thing through recently, and it all feels like a natural progression, with Freeza being the serious-fight-peak that begun with Piccolo Daimao, and the rest being basically a return to the tone of the Red Ribbon era or so. That's one thing that often doesn't get brought up - if you notice, outside of the two seconds between Cell being perfect, or before Piccolo fused with Kami, the heroes were stronger than the villains the entire Android/Cell saga in one or more instances. Villains were playing catch up the entire time. It was pretty much the opposite of the Freeza saga and before.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:37
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yoyomama posted:To be fair, the rest of the cast starts to become less relevant in fights back in dragonball during the piccolo daimao arc. In fact, the Saiyan saga is slightly better in that regard, since everyone got to prepare for Vegeta and Nappa's arrival, versus Goku not even telling anyone about Piccolo Jr. until before he fought him. Rest of the cast isn't relevant as far as the Red Ribbon arc, really.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:38
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I remember liking the Robot Pirate episode of Dragon Ball a lot back in the day, which has one of the few fights where secondary characters mattered, even Bulma did things! Running him over with a truck and (trying to) blow it up with a battleship's cannon.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:48
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Yeah, and then you have Goku obliterating Commander Red's post before the others can even make it. That part with General Blue is about the only time in that whole saga anyone besides Goku does anything at all. People who complain about Z/the movies being all about Goku or whatever just don't get it. The series is all about Goku pretty much from the beginning
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Aug 1, 2014 23:03
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facebook jihad posted:Yeah, and then you have Goku obliterating Commander Red's post before the others can even make it. Well, once it got to Z, it kind of stopped being about Goku until the very end. He was probably absent for most of Z. The movies got weird because while this was going on, they were still about Goku even when he was sick or dead. Even when he was in heaven, he flew in to help beat the bad guy...twice. That's why Bio Brolly was the worst, with Goku completely dead for so long, Toei had no idea what to do with themselves 
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Aug 1, 2014 23:09
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Goku was entirely dead for Bojack and it was radical.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:14
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WickedHate posted:Goku was entirely dead for Bojack and it was radical. Didn't he come punch Bojack in the face to save Gohan and get him to go SSJ2 again?
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Aug 1, 2014 23:15
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Spiritus Nox posted:Didn't he come punch Bojack in the face to save Gohan and get him to go SSJ2 again? It was kinda silly, too. Goku just had to remind Gohan about being pissed.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:18
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Spiritus Nox posted:Didn't he come punch Bojack in the face to save Gohan and get him to go SSJ2 again? I honestly don't recall that at all. Huh. Guess not.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:48
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Regarding how DBZ developed as a story: Cell was actually the last serious villain, not Freeza. Which is fitting, when you think about it. Cell is sort of a capstone on all of Goku's previous "serious villains", being a combination of them all: the Red Ribbon Army, Piccolo, the Saiyans, and Freeza. It was the last arc where the heroes needed to get stronger to beat the bad guy. General Tao, Piccolo, the Saiyans, Freeza: all of those kicked Goku's poo poo in the first time he fought them (Freeza is one big fight, but he was definitely winning before Goku became Super Saiyan). Once Cell is done, it's back to pre-Red Ribbon gag manga stuff: the Buu Arc. Not that Buu Arc doesn't have serious stuff, but all of the "I must become more powerful-er" subplots become null, and often played for jokes anyway. Look how goofy Super Saiyan 3 looks. Look at Gotenks' stupid outfit. It's funny.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:52
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Darko posted:Well, once it got to Z, it kind of stopped being about Goku until the very end. He was probably absent for most of Z. He is absent from the main action, but he's still the hero who comes in and cleans house in each saga outside of the Cell saga. And even when he's absent in the Saiyan and Freeza Sagas (especially Saiyan) he still has little side quests that keep him important.
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Aug 2, 2014 00:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRevF9YrY7M Eh, I wouldn't mind Hachiyak Abridged. Would make for some dumb fun.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:06
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HGH posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRevF9YrY7M I hope they do Brolli after Hachiyak.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:13
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Holy poo poo I live in Lewisville Texas now! I just moved here less than a year ago and everything. Maybe I should try and go see one of them or Sean. Shame it isn't Kyle Hebert though. My GF loves her Adult Gohan and Aizen and would love to go see him. Don't know if i can convince her to see Sean though. I really don't want to see the movie though...
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Aug 2, 2014 02:12
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Why not? It is a silly rear end movie. All the marketing for it has been wrong. It's not all that OMG POWER LEVEL FIGHT HURR crap.
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Aug 2, 2014 02:32
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