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MULTI-Sniper sure, the DA is awesome. For regular sniper rifles they're only advantageous at >32", which happens very infrequently around here. That wouldn't be too bad, but spending a fair number of points and SWC is hard to justify sometimes.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:15
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Just starting getting into Infinity. Somehow I had Combi Rifle down as a carbine version of the rifle or even an SMG, but looking like this it's just a straight upgrade across the board? Is there, by any chance, an SMG type weapon type that sits between the shottie and the rifle thats not pictured here?
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Jul 31, 2014 22:17
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Yeah, there is actually a Submachine gun. It isn't in the starter though, which is why we don't have the info on it. EDIT: Long answer, the Combirifle is a rifle that uses special scifi tech to automatically switch from standard ammo to some sort of flechette canister or something at short range, a sort of spontaneous shotgun transformation. However, since it uses an onboard computer, it can be disable by EMP weapons. It also costs a point or two more. The SMG is really good out to medium range, and fills your carbine niche. Signal fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 22:19
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Signal posted:MULTI-Sniper sure, the DA is awesome. For regular sniper rifles they're only advantageous at >32", which happens very infrequently around here. That wouldn't be too bad, but spending a fair number of points and SWC is hard to justify sometimes. Eh, IIRC they've said that sniper rifles are getting cheaper. I'd rather pay fewer points for a basically-as-good reactive weapon and spend those points on a different, offense-specialized model. Defensive units in this game exist to die in place of your important pieces anyway. 
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Jul 31, 2014 22:22
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Bostria mentioned something about camo being handy for taking out heavily-armored targets, but didn't specify how. I'm really curious now.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:23
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Corbeau posted:Eh, IIRC they've said that sniper rifles are getting cheaper. I'd rather pay fewer points for a basically-as-good reactive weapon and spend those points on a different, offense-specialized model. Yeah, that's valid. I just look at something like the Ragik, where the sniper variant is 35/1, and the HMG is 38/1.5. I really can see no possible situation in which I'd want the sniper instead of the HMG.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:27
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Sephyr posted:Bostria mentioned something about camo being handy for taking out heavily-armored targets, but didn't specify how. I'm really curious now. I think he just meant that in 2nd ed the first strike from camo was only useful if you actually killed your target, so camo'ed models would prefer to attack soft targets that they had a greater chance of killing before they could retaliate. I've never played a game in my life though, so take from that what you will 
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Jul 31, 2014 22:31
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OATH THREAAAAAD XPOST! What giant mold line on a the biggest piece of rubble of my rubble base? I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:34
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Signal posted:Yeah, that's valid. I just look at something like the Ragik, where the sniper variant is 35/1, and the HMG is 38/1.5. I really can see no possible situation in which I'd want the sniper instead of the HMG. I can't see any possible situation in which you'd want a reactive weapon on a drop troop anyway, to be honest. I'd rather have the drat Rifle + LSG combo than a Sniper Rifle in that scenario.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:06
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http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/23881-new-information-related-to-official-forums/ Forums will not close.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:27
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Corbeau posted:I can't see any possible situation in which you'd want a reactive weapon on a drop troop anyway, to be honest. I'd rather have the drat Rifle + LSG combo than a Sniper Rifle in that scenario. Yeah, that's kinda what I'm saying. Defining the sniper rifle right now, it's just an HMG that's not great in the active turn. That seems kinda sad for something as iconic as a sniper rifle.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:29
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Some big winners with these weapon changes. I'm looking at you, Riot Grrl with Boarding Shotgun & Flash Grenades.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:41
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WAR FOOT posted:Some big winners with these weapon changes. I'm looking at you, Riot Grrl with Boarding Shotgun & Flash Grenades.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:42
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Seriously. 29 points for MSV1 (And if that cancels the surprise bonus, then dodge all day against Camo thanks to your Hyperdynamics 1), 4-4, 2 Wounds, such a tidy package.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:48
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Signal posted:Yeah, that's kinda what I'm saying. Defining the sniper rifle right now, it's just an HMG that's not great in the active turn. That seems kinda sad for something as iconic as a sniper rifle. The sniper rifle advantage over the HMG is more pronounced in N3 though. From a 4" superior bracket to a 16" superior bracket (not even counting the range at which an HMG can't fire at all) is pretty substantial. Yeah, you're not going to use it in the active turn much, but I don't see that as a thematic problem for a sniper rifle. I don't know why they'd ever put the profile on a drop troop, but I think that's an issue with unit design rather than the sniper rifle. e: Also, I do see a fair amount of shooting happen around or above 32". It's not the standard engagement range - usually fighting happens either at point blank or around 20-30" - but there are usually positions where you can take advantage of such range on our tables here. From the look of table pics from the interplanetary, CB seems to expect much more open tables than a lot of people build for Infinity. Nudging N3 in that direction actually isn't a bad marketing decision, since it means players can get into the game with lower terrain expenses. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 01:00
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Anyone with Ariadna experience have an opinion on the new ranges and what units they hurt/help?
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Aug 1, 2014 01:20
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Corbeau posted:The sniper rifle advantage over the HMG is more pronounced in N3 though. From a 4" superior bracket to a 16" superior bracket (not even counting the range at which an HMG can't fire at all) is pretty substantial. Yeah, you're not going to use it in the active turn much, but I don't see that as a thematic problem for a sniper rifle. Terrain density also heavily affects the meta. In the very dense Australian (well, Melbourne) meta, things like Pretas, Muttuiah and Kum Bikers are living nightmares of models for incredibly low, low points costings. When a Muttuiah can make it's way across the table with only rolling one save, Snipers don't have a huge amount of value due to the poor firing lanes.
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Aug 1, 2014 01:34
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Having played against Preta-swarm on mixed tables (dense but still with fire lanes across the board), I flatly can't see any way those things are remotely balanced in anything approaching an urban board. Those things are completely bonkers and I'd bet almost anything that their profiles are going to eat a chainsaw to the face come N3 (my bet is that the bio mines get shifted to the explosive non-chain profile).
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Aug 1, 2014 02:22
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So with the changes to camo and weapons (specifically HMGs), it seems both my Cutter and Swiss Guard are not as good as before. Though I guess there will be point changes as well?
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Aug 1, 2014 02:52
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The Cutter is still quite good - You just won't be able to hug things while HMG'ing them. Truly, it is the Marut that has won out in these changes.
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Aug 1, 2014 03:37
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I can almost see a use for AD snipers as objective and area denial assets, but that's going to come down to a mix of revised costs, terrain density and local meta. You could concievably drop one with LoF and range advantage on a decent part of the mid field board, but there are a lot of factors that could keep that from being viable and right now the cost difference between rifles, snipers and HMGs is too low for it to be worth taking all the time.
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Aug 1, 2014 03:46
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At least in N2, I'd never want to show up without at least one TO/Camo/ODD/Mimetism/MSV sniper for board control. It just causes so many headaches for the other guy.
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Aug 1, 2014 04:27
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Corbeau posted:At least in N2, I'd never want to show up without at least one TO/Camo/ODD/Mimetism/MSV sniper for board control. It just causes so many headaches for the other guy. Exactly. With AD you even get the opportunity to drop it exactly where you need it based on the current situation. The problem there being if you're investing in AD anyway, you might as well get the more aggressive gun in most situations.
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Aug 1, 2014 05:01
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Or you bring an infiltrating sniper who doesn't have a huge chance of scattering like crazy. And who'll be out on the table from turn 0 in case you go second (which is when board control matters the most). I really don't see any reason to bring an AD sniper.
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Aug 1, 2014 05:04
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No, I agree that with N2 it isn't really worth it. Though I'd argue there is a trade off. Infiltrators and TO have a fixed starting position that might prove tactically unsound depending on the opening moves. In theory, AD3 allows response where needed as the situation develops. In practice, the opportunity cost and increased chance of scatter weakens the option considerably, but if N3 plays with the costs enough I wonder if it might be a somewhat viable option.
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Aug 1, 2014 05:16
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I think AD HMGs still have their place; downgrade to AD2 and enter from the better board edge for bandings and order pool devouring.
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Aug 1, 2014 05:51
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bhsman posted:Anyone with Ariadna experience have an opinion on the new ranges and what units they hurt/help? It's too early to tell, as others have mentioned I highly suspect they will use 3e as an opportunity to recost certain models so that will factor in to the answer to your question. The camo changes effect Ariadna far more as it is one of their primary survival tools. Still the majority of our guys have access to shotguns so that's something to consider.
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Aug 1, 2014 08:11
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bhsman posted:Anyone with Ariadna experience have an opinion on the new ranges and what units they hurt/help? Rebalancing HMGs is bad, extending the effective range of rifles is good. The new Camo rules are a mixed bag considering we have so much of it but no visors. Overall, it's pretty hard to draw any real conclusions without knowing how all the various associated rules have changed to compensate.
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Aug 1, 2014 08:43
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Dulkor posted:Exactly. With AD you even get the opportunity to drop it exactly where you need it based on the current situation. The problem there being if you're investing in AD anyway, you might as well get the more aggressive gun in most situations. The minimal cost difference is the real problem. I'm sure it would mess with quite a few other things, but if Sniper Rifles (not MULTI) cost almost the same as Rifle+Light Shotgun, but ate up SWC, I think it would be a lot better.
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Aug 1, 2014 08:54
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Well, pretty much all the info on the Icestorm rules is online. Nothing particularly enlightening, since it looks like a bunch of the "changes" are more like omissions to reduce rules complexity within the scope of the starter box. Stats and equipment of the new models have been revealed... but we don't know what any of the new stuff does, so that's kind of irrelevant.
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Aug 1, 2014 09:14
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Some of the people on the official forums are going completely nuts on the range band changes. Personally I think it's a good thing, rifle carriers were often completely dominated by longer range weapons. The relative rebalancing if rifles vs shotguns and hmgs vs snipers needs to be addressed in pts though. Other Icestorm bits: All HI seem to be 4-4 now, MI stay 4-2. The Father-Knight's stats are sick, CC23, 5 ARM, 9 BTS etc. Personally I am very chuffed that the Mobile Brigada with multirifle and LFT has gone down to 39 pts, while gaining 4-4. Woohoo! Roll on that link team box.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:24
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All of the changes are good things, the forum posts just spot who crutch HARD on Spitfires and HMG.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:01
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I'm preordering Operation: Icestorm, and I want to get an additional box for each faction to expand it out and play bigger games with my friends. I don't have any PanO or Nomad stuff. What would be good purchases to compliment the stuff in the box? Edit: I'm thinking the Tunguska Interventors box for Nomad and then the Kamau Hacker/Guarda de Assalto for PanO. long-ass nips Diane fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 16:06
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Is it worth getting two Icestorm Boxes and swapping, like you might with a 40k box?
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Aug 1, 2014 16:58
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Well unlike 40k where you need a certain number of the same units for an army, Infinity doesn't require multiples of any given unit - the 3 of each line infantry you get in the box are probably a good number to include in beginner games. Getting another box just gets you duplicates which is nothing great in terms of gameplay, and IMO looks pretty dull, one of the nice things about a skirmish game is having unique models. The exception to this 'duplicates are pointless' thing is if you are using a sectorial list, where you have narrower selection but can take more of each unit. Even then you don't want the same actual models do you? For example I play the Corregidor sectorial, which features Alguaciles and Mobile Brigada. But rather than buy 2 Icestorm boxes I will definitely wait till CB releases more models for those unit types - my army will look better and I will have the ability to field more equipment loadouts, eg it would be rare to field 6 alguaciles without 1 or more carrying some heavier weaponry than rifles. Sorry if any of that is phrased patronisingly - the short version is no, it's a bad idea, get more other models instead. Swagger Dagger: It's hard to say much about interventors or any other hackers as the rules will be redone (and apparently vastly expanded) very soon. I would say for additional boxes, the starter sets for the various sectorial armies are good places to look. Value for money and gives you a number of models. If cost is a factor, things with small ancillary models like auxbots, koalas and pandas, or massier models like remotes, give you a bit less gameplay bang for their greater bucks cost. So Nomads: bakunin and corregidor starters both good, Morlocks box gives you interesting and fun warband troops (if you're into that weird Bakunin poo poo), you could get some of the hellcat or tomcat drop troops. PanO: Neoterra, MO or Acontecimento boxes all good, auxilia box maybe. For individual models it is hard for me to actually recommend because there is so much variety. Throw out some names you like the look of and I'll explain what they do in (the current) rules.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:11
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Genghis Cohen posted:The Father-Knight's stats are sick, CC23, 5 ARM, 9 BTS etc. What's the point cost on that beast? Do we know if has Martial arts at all?
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Aug 1, 2014 17:12
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This page has a picture of the profiles included in the Op: Icestorm bit: http://infinitythegame.com/forum/index.php?/topic/23900-icestorm-rule-change-roundup/ Your questions: no MA but a seeminly new rule called Assault, and Kinematika L1, costs 43 pts (with a boarding shotgun) which even with no long ranged weapons seems very good indeed. Dude is a beast. Re: MA, remember we have not yet seen the new CC rules, apparently big changes. So perhaps it will no longer be only about the presence of MA/berserk/special CCWs.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:27
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I note that they no longer have the bizarre negative BTS too. Given that they took away combat camo causing normal rolls, I suspect they'll do the same with martial arts. Maybe we'll see abilities that give close combat units multiple dice rolls instead of going first. Edit: What does the "S" stat mean? TastyAvocado fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 17:39
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There is a strong indication of that possibility (I believe it came out of one of the Icestorm videos now on BoW): Knives are B(1), as well as moving to DAM (PH-1). S is for silhouette, the size of rectangle now used to check LoF. Humans are S2, it appears full size TAGs are S7. Guesses are S1 is small things like koalas, there will be at least 1 size for remotes, sizes for really big HI types like Ajax or Tarik Wazzizname.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:42
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BoW Operation Icestorm Mission 5 demo game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4GUQlpmHa0
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Aug 1, 2014 18:09
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