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Powercrazy posted:So people don't smoke up and then drive? No, they will, but the point is, some fraction of the people who would otherwise drink and drive will instead smoke and drive, and even a small change there is enough to save a lot of lives. This is because drinking is significantly more impairing to one's ability to drive, and affects your judgement as to whether to drive or not in the first place.
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Aug 1, 2014 20:21
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Is there any evidence, beyond anecdotal, that says that marijuana smoking is a replacement for alcohol? Why wouldn't people just do both?
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Aug 1, 2014 21:44
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Powercrazy posted:Is there any evidence, beyond anecdotal, that says that marijuana smoking is a replacement for alcohol? This was the paper I originally saw on the matter. Kind of old but whatever: http://www.nber.org/papers/w4662 Basically, while higher prices of alcohol correlate with a lower rate car accidents, lower prices of marijuana correlate with a lower rate of car accidents. That suggests that the substitution effect exists and is stronger than the primary effect of people driving high in the first place. People will certainly do both, but presumably there is some substitution, someone who gets drunk every weekend won't necessarily do both every weekend, even if they do one or the other and sometimes both. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 21:49
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Powercrazy posted:Is there any evidence, beyond anecdotal, that says that marijuana smoking is a replacement for alcohol? There appears to be this: quote:Using data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) for the period 1990- 2010, Anderson, Hansen, & Rees (2013) examined the effect of legalizing medical marijuana on traffic fatalities. They found that legalizing medical marijuana was associated with a 13 percent decrease in fatalities involving alcohol. It is important to note, however, that their results do not necessarily imply that driving under the influence of marijuana is safer than driving under the influence of alcohol. Because marijuana is not typically consumed in public venues such as restaurants and bars, their results may reflect fewer impaired drivers on the road. http://www.dmarkanderson.com/Point_Counterpoint_07_31_13_v5.pdf Though if it's available recreationally and in a bar/club-like environment I can't imagine that people wouldn't do both. As the article says, right now marijuana fatalities could be suppressed because there's significant incentives against publicly smoking.
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Aug 1, 2014 21:50
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computer parts posted:There appears to be this: It's pretty much this imo. If you want to socialize when you drink, you have to either do significant planning to get you and your car home at the end of the night, or you have to rationalize that you will only drink "a little," before you drive. I know on the internet no one ever drinks and drives, but statistically a shitload of people do. So rather than marijuana being "less impairing" or whatever, it's more then likely people are smoking (and drinking) in private homes etc, rather than in the normal alcohol places.
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Aug 1, 2014 22:08
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Hey Tony, you wanna get baked? Are you insane?! I just finished a loving seabreeze!
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Aug 1, 2014 22:24
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Powercrazy posted:It's pretty much this imo. If you want to socialize when you drink, you have to either do significant planning to get you and your car home at the end of the night, or you have to rationalize that you will only drink "a little," before you drive. I know on the internet no one ever drinks and drives, but statistically a shitload of people do. From the same article: quote:Finally, Anderson, Hansen, & Rees (2013) examined the relationship between legalizing medical marijuana and drinking using data from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System. These authors found that legalization was associated with reductions in heavy drinking especially among 18- through 29-year-olds. In addition, they found that legalization was associated with an almost 5 percent decrease in beer sales, the alcoholic beverage of choice among young adults (Jones, 2008). I don't see how your explanation could account for beer sales going down - presumably if people would always do both at a bar, they would always do both at home, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It also doesn't have to be a very big effect to still have a significant effect on traffic fatalities. Even if 5% of the instances of drunk driving were turned into stoned driving, that would save a not-insignificant number of lives. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 22:25
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It's worth pointing out that alcohol and cannabis are an awful combination and I don't know anyone who likes using both at the same time.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:02
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KingEup posted:We cannot ignore the negative effects that legalization would have on under-age use and addiction, highway safety, treatment costs, mental health problems, emergency room admissions, workplace accidents and productivity, and personal health. Yes, please listen to the wisdom of Peter Bensinger and Robert L.DuPont. If marijuana is legalized, then workplace testing for marijuana might become less common. And that would cause Bensinger, Dupont & Associates to make less money from drug testing services. We can't have that.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:19
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Salt Fish posted:It's worth pointing out that alcohol and cannabis are an awful combination and I don't know anyone who likes using both at the same time.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:25
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Salt Fish posted:It's worth pointing out that alcohol and cannabis are an awful combination and I don't know anyone who likes using both at the same time. I do both. Though when I smoke+drink, I end up drinking less then if I just drink. So I could absolutely see the argument that smoking makes aggregate volume decrease. I have no idea what is "typical" though, but any way you look at it, the presence of legal marijuana makes alcohol consumption decrease. So whether that actually decreases DUI absolutely, or just the "severity" of DUI (i.e. you don't get caught, and don't kill/injure anyone), is a valid question but at the end of the day DUI is a pre-crime, and if the outcome of marijuana legalization decreases the real consequences of DUI, then it's a good thing.
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Aug 1, 2014 23:35
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Welp wrap it up potailures no way marijuana is gonna stay legal if this is real http://earthweareone.com/a-marijuana-lubricant-that-gives-you-a-15-minute-climax/ b/c we wouldn't want women actually enjoying sex. (This if legit is really cool and serves as a testament of sorts to the myriad of ways thc can be used)
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Aug 2, 2014 00:26
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Py-O-My posted:Yes, please listen to the wisdom of Peter Bensinger and Robert L.DuPont. If marijuana is legalized, then workplace testing for marijuana might become less common. And that would cause Bensinger, Dupont & Associates to make less money from drug testing services. We can't have that. Hahahaha of loving course.
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Aug 2, 2014 00:42
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Salt Fish posted:It's worth pointing out that alcohol and cannabis are an awful combination and I don't know anyone who likes using both at the same time. *every Crip I've ever known vanishes into thin air* Well I'll be.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:22
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SedanChair posted:*every Crip I've ever known vanishes into thin air* People around here (painfully white upper-middle class brats) call it "getting crossfaded." Definitely a thing.
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Aug 2, 2014 01:24
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Everyone I know calls it getting the spins after 3 beers and throwing up. Yeah, some frat kids are going to do it but its not going to become a cultural phenomenon like using tobacco and alcohol together.
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Aug 2, 2014 02:29
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I think you should reconsider that statement, especially considering the history of cocaine.
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Aug 2, 2014 02:37
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Powercrazy posted:I think you should reconsider that statement, especially considering the history of cocaine. I hear those drugs go together like peanut butter and jelly.
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Aug 2, 2014 02:42
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Salt Fish posted:Everyone I know calls it getting the spins after 3 beers and throwing up. Yeah, some frat kids are going to do it but its not going to become a cultural phenomenon like using tobacco and alcohol together. Are you seriously telling me that you think it's some kind of rare thing to smoke and have a few beers? Seriously?
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Aug 2, 2014 02:44
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Salt Fish posted:Everyone I know calls it getting the spins after 3 beers and throwing up. Yeah, some frat kids are going to do it but its not going to become a cultural phenomenon like using tobacco and alcohol together. Your friends=lame
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Aug 2, 2014 02:46
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All I'm saying is that my guess is that, statistically, people who use more cannabis are less likely to use alcohol.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:08
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Salt Fish posted:Everyone I know calls it getting the spins after 3 beers and throwing up. Yeah, some frat kids are going to do it but its not going to become a cultural phenomenon like using tobacco and alcohol together. How would using something that is oft prescribed to counteract nausea going to possibly make you throw up when mixed with booze? A beer and a bowl are good friends.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:22
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Salt Fish posted:All I'm saying is that my guess is that, statistically, people who use more cannabis are less likely to use alcohol. Your statistical sample appears to be comprised of your lightweight friends who, like you, don't get out much.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:25
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SedanChair posted:Your statistical sample appears to be comprised of your lightweight friends who, like you, don't get out much. Ok
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Aug 2, 2014 03:40
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Extremely loose "medical" marijuana laws in multiple states didn't seem to reduce alcohol consumption over long terms despite the fact you'd expect them to result in more people using marijuana more often after years of it being "safe" for them to use; I don't know why you'd expect being able to smoke weed would result in all around less alcohol consumption.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:42
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Nintendo Kid posted:Extremely loose "medical" marijuana laws in multiple states didn't seem to reduce alcohol consumption over long terms despite the fact you'd expect them to result in more people using marijuana more often after years of it being "safe" for them to use; I don't know why you'd expect being able to smoke weed would result in all around less alcohol consumption. quote:Finally, Anderson, Hansen, & Rees (2013) examined the relationship between legalizing medical marijuana and drinking using data from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System. These authors found that legalization was associated with reductions in heavy drinking especially among 18- through 29-year-olds. In addition, they found that legalization was associated with an almost 5 percent decrease in beer sales, the alcoholic beverage of choice among young adults (Jones, 2008).
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Aug 2, 2014 03:49
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To be fair that's beer and not alcohol in general.
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Aug 2, 2014 03:50
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That's a reduction in "heavy" drinking among a single age group, and purchases of a single category of alcohol. What do the studies say about other age groups and other kinds?
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Aug 2, 2014 03:53
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Nintendo Kid posted:That's a reduction in "heavy" drinking among a single age group, and purchases of a single category of alcohol. What do the studies say about other age groups and other kinds? What studies say that there WASN'T a reduction in alcohol consumption?
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Aug 2, 2014 03:54
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Salt Fish posted:What studies say that there WASN'T a reduction in alcohol consumption? The only studies you're linking only refer to small subsets, and there seems to be a dearth of studies in general.
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Aug 2, 2014 04:00
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Nintendo Kid posted:The only studies you're linking only refer to small subsets, and there seems to be a dearth of studies in general. I agree. So, if you only have a little bit of evidence but that evidence points at A instead of B do you feel its more likely that A is true or B is true? edit: I forgot option C I'm a pussy that can't handle binge drinking between dabs.
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Aug 2, 2014 04:03
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Salt Fish posted:I agree. So, if you only have a little bit of evidence but that evidence points at A instead of B do you feel its more likely that A is true or B is true? The evidence doesn't point much of anywhere, results are inconclusive with weak evidence that certain kinds dropped slightly and a single age group dropped.
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Aug 2, 2014 04:08
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This notion that the repeal of cannabis prohibition will trigger a significant deterioration in road safety hinges on the belief that people who don't smoke cannabis (out of a deep respect for the law) will suddenly decide to use cannabis and disobey the road laws i.e. become scofflaws. It is totally illogical. KingEup fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 05:09
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KingEup posted:This notion that we'll see a deterioration in road safety following the repeal of cannabis prohibition hinges on the idea that people who never smoked cannabis (out of respect for the law) will suddenly decide to use cannabis and disobey the road laws i.e. become scofflaws. Or it follows from the idea that right now people are smoking marijuana in situations where they don't drive (so, in private) and with legalization they'll smoke more in areas that will cause them to drive intoxicated.
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Aug 2, 2014 05:12
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computer parts posted:Or it follows from the idea that right now people are smoking marijuana in situations where they don't drive (so, in private) and with legalization they'll smoke more in areas that will cause them to drive intoxicated. It remains unlawful smoke cannabis in public in Colorado and Washington.
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Aug 2, 2014 06:14
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KingEup posted:It remains unlawful smoke cannabis in public in Colorado and Washington. You don't have to smoke to be intoxicated by marijuana.
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Aug 2, 2014 06:52
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Full page ad in the NYT: https://grassisnotgreener.com It's the same half-truths, misleading statistics, and correlation = causation horseshit we've all seen a thousand times before.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:39
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In reality, marijuana growing is a BUSINESS done for PROFIT. Now eat literally bushels of corn.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:42
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Here's what I don't get: Why are people totally comfortable saying "Look how bad tobacco is! We don't need something else like that! Oh but let's not do anything about tobacco, okay?" I mean, what the gently caress people? How does this get rationalized? If it's something like "Well it's already legal can't change that nope," then lol.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:57
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Here's what I don't get: Why are people totally comfortable saying "Look how bad tobacco is! We don't need something else like that! Oh but let's not do anything about tobacco, okay?" I mean, what the gently caress people? How does this get rationalized? If it's something like "Well it's already legal can't change that nope," then lol. Tobacco is already being slowly smothered though. Like, smoking rates for the US are well below not only the historical average but the averages of most countries, developed or developing.
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Aug 3, 2014 06:42
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