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Aug 2, 2014 15:22
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| # ? May 14, 2024 05:49 |
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I don't think any of us hate Patreon itself, nor do we hate the idea of Patreon any more than we hated the idea of Kickstarter. It's the workflow that people are trying to bend Patreon's system to support that's the source of the groans. Consider a busker. The way busking works is the person plays on their guitar or saxophone or violin or whatever and, for those few moments of enhanced ambience that comes from walking by them, you throw in a dollar or a handful of change or what have you. Now, whether you throw in no money at all or a twenty, that busker continues playing. Maybe they make eye contact with you and smile or something, but the busker provides the same amount of music either way. Is the busker there to make money? Absolutely. They do not, however, stand there tapping a foot, waiting for someone to pay them to start playing, nor do they start a few notes as someone approaches and then conspicuously stop as they pass by, clearing their throat and looking down at their guitar case. You gotta do it because you love it, not because you think it'd be a fun way to make money. You gotta keep doing it and doing it and getting exposure while sucking it up and hoping to break through. That's why goddamn everyone isn't getting into the Internet-artist gig. You have to let your product speak for itself. Nobody's going to give money to a busker who is just tapping a foot impatiently, thinking he's got it coming. Plenty of Patreon accounts get it right. They are the people already creating what they would be creating regardless. They're already playing the music before you're even around to hear it. A lot of the folks we read were looking at their Patreon income and thinking "as soon as I make it to X dollars per whatever, I can go tell my boss to shove it and do this full time!" I think that's the wrong way to look at it. Patreon as a revenue stream can be extremely volatile, especially after people realize what they're now on the hook for as a content creator. Supporters can pull their support, and they don't have to explain themselves. It's not the cake, it's the cherry on top. Most of our subjects for this episode fell into one of those two categories: the pay-me-to-start-creating people, or the wanna-quit-my-job people. That's the source of amusement. That's the reason they were in the episode.
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Aug 2, 2014 15:44
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If you keep up with internet critics at all a good deal of them have started up Patreons which is well and good but a lot of it is because ad revenue is in the toilet. When/if Patreon goes bust well...
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Aug 2, 2014 16:36
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I actually like Patreon, as a concept, more than KS/IndieGoGo/whatever because I think it has a better chance of actually SUPPORTING people who deserve it rather than throwing a pile of money at them and going 'go you'. That said if you're using Patreon as your big 'this will pay my rent' move, you've hosed up. I have friends who use it, they use it to SUPPLEMENT things or remove ads or quality of life things that cost money they'd rather not take out of their real income. Also, it's fair to make fun of cheese, even if you like medusa guy's comic or whatever (that's the one you're upset about right? The first one?) it's fair to go 'man starting things with a cheesy webcomic is kinda cornball' and his pitch was kinda dumb. Not everything they make fun of is the absolute worst thing like MRAs and baby fuckers, sometimes things are just stupid and it's fair to go 'ha ha, dumb' at it. I don't think they were trying to STOP webcomic medusa man, just laugh at him.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:02
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Tracula posted:If you keep up with internet critics at all a good deal of them have started up Patreons which is well and good but a lot of it is because ad revenue is in the toilet. When/if Patreon goes bust well... Didn't that Nostalgia Critic guy quit his job in the most flamboyant way possible when he was making bank off ad revenue? What happened with that? I'm assuming nothing good.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:23
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I hate Patreon just on the fact that the guy who does Questionable Content, a strip one degree removed from sprite comics of yore, where nothing ever loving happens, makes almost 10 grand a month.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:43
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I do feel like the kickstarter/indiegogo/patreon episodes (and to a lesser extent the mars and ahaaaaa episodes) tend to veer into attacking the concepts themselves rather than the idiots subscribing, which does annoy me a little. This one sounded at times like the readers had as much a problem with the idea of artists getting paid as they did with the idiots trying to quit their jobs to fly around the world dressing as a fairy, although that probably wasn't the intention, and it's kind of hard to get a good balance in an audio podcast making fun of stupid people. I guess it's personal preference, but likewise it sometimes felt with the aha and kickstarter stuff that I would have preferred more mocking of the stupid ideas and less mocking of the fact that people have ideas. Same with the mars episode - going to mars isn't necessarily a goal worthy of mockery, but thinking an accountancy course and some time in photoshop qualifies you is. I'm probably reading too much into a comedy podcast, but I do prefer the episodes where it's just incomprehensible fanfiction, dolphin worshippers and people who want to gently caress balloons over the ones where you end up making fun of people who just don't really want normal jobs and lives.
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Aug 2, 2014 19:59
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I didn't feel like the Mars episode really attacked the idea of going to Mars. It seemed to be a very individual idiot-centric episode where the overarching theme was "What makes you think you'll survive on Mars?"
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Aug 2, 2014 21:04
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I felt like the overarching idea was that these twerps were wanting money for what they WILL do, not what they are doing. The market shouldn't work like that. You don't give the grocery store money because they'll go to the field and pick corn for you, you go to the grocery store and get corn, and then give them money. They already HAVE the corn. You also don't put money in a jar at the front of the store hoping that they'll get carrots, you wait for them to get carrots in, then you buy them. I am so all for ripping into please give me money sites. gently caress kick starter. It's turned everyone on the Internet into someone with their hand out. I'd love to see The F Plus take on GoFundMe, that place is full of "Welp you guys my master plan of sitting around and reblogging bullshit on Tumblr didn't somehow pay my rent, please help!" Or the loving vet bills. Those are so scammy.
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Aug 2, 2014 21:36
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Haha, and Lemon said that he didn't think it could get more low-effort than Patreon.
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Aug 2, 2014 22:00
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Bean posted:I felt like the overarching idea was that these twerps were wanting money for what they WILL do, not what they are doing. The market shouldn't work like that. You don't give the grocery store money because they'll go to the field and pick corn for you, you go to the grocery store and get corn, and then give them money. They already HAVE the corn. You also don't put money in a jar at the front of the store hoping that they'll get carrots, you wait for them to get carrots in, then you buy them. If you want to see that then you should compile a document of it. 
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Aug 2, 2014 22:29
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Gofundme is really the scummiest of all of them. I guess with other poo poo theres some veneer of professionalism but gofundme is literally just 'give me money because I want money'.
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Aug 2, 2014 23:01
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Is anyone actually making a GoFundMe doc? I decided to go looking through it now, and there are some great things there. Edit: loving damnit, I just found Bring Quantum Generators to the World! which seems to claim to literally be a perpetual motion machine and produce an infinite amount of energy, because why the gently caress not. Current funding status? $37,513 of $20k A Meat fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 23:32
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MooCowlian posted:I do feel like the kickstarter/indiegogo/patreon episodes (and to a lesser extent the mars and ahaaaaa episodes) tend to veer into attacking the concepts themselves rather than the idiots subscribing, which does annoy me a little. This one sounded at times like the readers had as much a problem with the idea of artists getting paid as they did with the idiots trying to quit their jobs to fly around the world dressing as a fairy, although that probably wasn't the intention, and it's kind of hard to get a good balance in an audio podcast making fun of stupid people. I guess it's personal preference, but likewise it sometimes felt with the aha and kickstarter stuff that I would have preferred more mocking of the stupid ideas and less mocking of the fact that people have ideas. Same with the mars episode - going to mars isn't necessarily a goal worthy of mockery, but thinking an accountancy course and some time in photoshop qualifies you is. Yeah, I figured my reaction to this episode was too personal and probably just me projecting, so I'm actually a little relieved other persons also got that impression. I am a graduate student, living on what even by research assistant standards is a modest stipend. I also have an admittedly not-very-good webcomic with an associated Patreon. The additional income from that Patreon just hit the level where I can move to a slightly better apartment that doesn't have wasps over the doors. I don't think people necessarily "deserve" to be paid for their hobbies or for their passions, but it should be irrelevant whether a product is professional or personal. If it's worth money, it's not wrong to ask people to pay for it, or if they'd be willing to pay for it. And there's nothing wrong with wanting supplementary income, and many people depend on it. I mean, you are making jokes about people admitting they have jobs when it's just that person trying to be forthright about what that money will mean for their lifestyle. Pick fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 23:37
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quote:Most of our subjects for this episode fell into one of those two categories: the pay-me-to-start-creating people, or the wanna-quit-my-job people. That's the source of amusement. That's the reason they were in the episode. Iunno, I feel like this was the weakest episode yet, and not even necessarily because I disagree with the concept. It just felt like a lot of the jokes were forced, or didn't land. The guy at the start got a super nerdy voice because... iunno, he's making a poo poo webcomic, I guess? quote:I am so all for ripping into please give me money sites. gently caress kick starter. It's turned everyone on the Internet into someone with their hand out. Then you can just... not give them money? I feel like Kickstarter's led to some things finding audiences that they wouldn't have been able to otherwise. Sure, some people use it for scams or 'please give me money, here's my charity case that I can't prove in anyway' but those types of people would scam people with or without the site. Endorph fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 3, 2014 01:55
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I like kickstarter type episodes, so fuk da haters I guess.
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Aug 3, 2014 02:00
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Cercadelmar posted:I like kickstarter type episodes, so fuk da haters I guess. These guys just have poo poo webcomics. poo poo webcomics in and of themselves aren't really a laughable concept, and while some out there are hilarious and deserving of mockery it's kind of hard to do so in a nonvisual format. So, it's just 'hey, this guy has a poo poo webcomic and wants a couple of bucks a month.' "What's he getting?" "A couple of bucks a month." *sitcom laugh track*
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Aug 3, 2014 02:04
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KingKalamari posted:Didn't that Nostalgia Critic guy quit his job in the most flamboyant way possible when he was making bank off ad revenue? What happened with that? I'm assuming nothing good. There's video of it, but gently caress if I'm gonna go find it. I'm pretty sure it involved a boombox playing Also Sprach Zarathustra as he held up and danced with an 'I Quit' sign in the cafeteria. Doug Walker's probably one of the few internet critics that could ever afford to do that, though. Even if TGWTG does stop being able to pay his bills (and it doesn't look like it will) then he's clearly accrued enough cred in his field to get a job in it.
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Aug 3, 2014 02:45
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Wait, you guys got mad at the beginning? Where Boots plugged his nose and read about getting donations so he can run his comic about a medusa child that eats poo?
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Aug 3, 2014 02:49
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Grondoth posted:Wait, you guys got mad at the beginning? Where Boots plugged his nose and read about getting donations so he can run his comic about a medusa child that eats poo? No but see artistic value means we can't say 'no actually gently caress this' or else people are being like the mean ol republicans telling people to bootstrap jobs or whatever. Like, you guys get that it's pretty loving hilarious to think that you're entitled to constant money flow without question so you can do cosplay or a lovely webcomic right? Also, dude who was upset they were 'mad at the idea' of going to mars and poo poo, you got when they were super clearly talking about how insane it was a bunch of idiots going 'I'll publish my journal' and 'I'll draw buildings!' were the ones applying and not 'I'm a biologist and know how to grow food'? Also we all know Portaxx is an animator/artist/cartoon monkey but aren't a few other of them in creative jobs too? I think they're aware of the struggles of artists and all, that doesn't make a poo poo eating child medusa comic that you loving know is fetish art not hilarious to ask for money for.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:30
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Making a Patreon doesn't mean you feel entitled to anything. It just means you're open to that constant money flow, should it materialize. The funny part to me is that the projects themselves are lovely. If people are willing to pay you a shitload to do your stupid thing you like, then that's great. The idea that somebody would allow themselves to accept money for their hobby isn't mockworthy.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:50
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Tatum Girlparts posted:No but see artistic value means we can't say 'no actually gently caress this' or else people are being like the mean ol republicans telling people to bootstrap jobs or whatever. You know, you're really good at distilling other people's opinions into bizarre caricatures that are pretty much only useful for insulting people with the original opinion. If you made a Patreon for it you could make ten bucks a month, easy.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:57
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BKPR posted:Making a Patreon doesn't mean you feel entitled to anything. It just means you're open to that constant money flow, should it materialize. Tracula posted:Gofundme is really the scummiest of all of them. I guess with other poo poo theres some veneer of professionalism but gofundme is literally just 'give me money because I want money'.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:13
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TetsuoTW posted:Not a chance GFM is the scummiest. At least it's honest about what it is. IGG continues to pretend it's just as professional as Kickstarter and somehow goes about that by digging a tunnel under that super-low bar. IGG has repeatedly and knowingly hosted literal fraud for scientifically impossible projects. Ugh, I didn't know that, that's pretty bad. I guess the only real issue with this episode is that it was really only about web comics and junk. It seems like there has to be a lot of other terrible Patreons out there for much dumber things.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:19
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Tracula posted:Ugh, I didn't know that, that's pretty bad.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:26
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TetsuoTW posted:One of them claimed to basically be a scanner thing from Star Trek that you could point at your food and it would analyze its chemical makeup and tell you what was in it. Another was a wristband that claimed to analyze how many calories you consume and burn. 
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Aug 3, 2014 05:43
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Sham bam bamina! posted:What's funny is that the Vessyl cup can actually do both of those things (supposedly) but was banned from Kickstarter for starting the campaign without a complete prototype. Oh man, I'm looking at the website for Vessyl and this could do with it's own episode almost  Literally everything in the FAQ might as well say "gently caress you it's magic, next question."
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Aug 3, 2014 06:06
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Edit: Wrong thread
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Aug 3, 2014 08:31
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Webcomics are bad.
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Aug 3, 2014 10:47
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Afraid of Audio posted:Webcomics Agreed
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Aug 3, 2014 10:58
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Endorph posted:poo poo webcomics in and of themselves aren't really a laughable concept Incorrect.
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Aug 3, 2014 11:05
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Tatum Girlparts posted:No but see artistic value means we can't say 'no actually gently caress this' or else people are being like the mean ol republicans telling people to bootstrap jobs or whatever. This is pretty close to how I imagine your average crowdfunding hater views people who use this stuff. It's also how I imagine what your average Fox News viewers thinks about poor people, but that's just a coincidence, isn't it?
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Aug 3, 2014 11:53
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Spark That Bled posted:This is pretty close to how I imagine your average crowdfunding hater views people who use this stuff. Holy poo poo are you kidding me right now?
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Aug 3, 2014 15:47
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Endorph posted:
Yeah, I don't even think I could gather much about Modest Medusa's badness from the episode, I just know it from elsewhere on this site. BKPR posted:Making a Patreon doesn't mean you feel entitled to anything. It just means you're open to that constant money flow, should it materialize.
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Aug 3, 2014 16:18
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I guess what I'm not getting is where the entitlement comes in. Like if you have a thing and people are willing to toss you a few bucks for that thing, why shouldn't you take advantage of that? If people don't think your product is worth that money, they can just not pay it. If they do think it's worth money, then what's wrong with a dude getting 3 bucks a month for his bad webcomic? It'd be one thing if people were going UGH PAY ME ONE MILLION DOLLARS NOW FOR MY MAGNIFICENT ART but like half the ones read in this episode went 'yeah I'm just expecting a few extra bucks a month, but hey, money is money.' And I don't know anything about Modest Medusa, because the episode didn't really go into it. Endorph fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 3, 2014 19:38
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Everything else aside I just think this is probably the first episode I didn't think any of the jokes were funny. 
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Aug 3, 2014 19:44
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Well, what kinds of subjects would you folks want to hear more of? About 90% of the episodes we do now are selections put together by listeners.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:18
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Squint posted:Well, what kinds of subjects would you folks want to hear more of? About 90% of the episodes we do now are selections put together by listeners.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:31
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FWIW, I do think kickstarter etc. have plenty of good material, just that sometimes the jokes didn't always seem like they were mocking the idiots at fault as opposed to the generally reasonable concept. As for what I want to hear, there's never enough new age (or religious) crazies and terrible fanfiction. I've got about halfway through a document on vibrating crystals that heal your soul, which I should get down to finishing. I just looked at the hopper to discover that a) there's a unicorn sex thing and b) when thinking about f plus, my mind automatically pronounces paggan wrong. http://www.wikihow.com/Deal-With-a-Boyfriend-Who-Is-Obsessed-With-Your-Butt Deformed Church fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 3, 2014 20:33
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Sham bam bamina! posted:That Nazi pony document has been in the hopper for WAY too drat long. It has been a while since we had any truly horrid people as a subject. I've been looking forward to that and the Koji wants a 2D ep for a while.
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Aug 3, 2014 20:51
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