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« Debate & Discussion: We tortured some folks › Auspol August: Half-baked enraged drivel Sounds about right. Just read the article about how officials were told in 2012 to pick out the youngest looking detainees to send to Manus and gently caress everything.
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 12:50 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 14:08 |
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IronicBeetCriminal posted:Yeah I had a look for it afterwards, I guess my point is it's not being splashed out there and the majority of voters probably will never hear about it. It had passed me by too, but it's guaranteed to be blown away by Aaron Lane's twitter comedy, particularly nice because Napthine was in Bendigo on Friday and it also blew away his attempts to gee up the Northern Region candidate as well
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 13:09 |
Yes, and that was a bad thing. The fact that women get help with various aspects of their lives via the government is a good thing. When individuals are forced to provide things for themselves that pretty much everyone needs it's inefficient as hell. Individuals can't take advantage of economies of scale nor can they justify the expense of studying a problem to come up with an efficient solution. Leveraging these efficiencies is the whole reason large organizations like government and businesses exist! "No, no, lets all do these things on our own, by our bootstraps!" is loving stupid fetishizing of the idea of freedom, not good policy! Christ!
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 13:15 |
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Yes, and that was a bad thing. The fact that women get help with various aspects of their lives via the government is a good thing. They think its a wedge issue to banish "socialism". In their tiny minds the government is just a rent-collector that builds roads apparently and spends the money on torturing refugees.
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 13:31 |
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Yes, and that was a bad thing. The fact that women get help with various aspects of their lives via the government is a good thing. Thing is, women back in "her day" either were married and did the whole housekeeper thing or they were single and struggled like gently caress. My great grandmother was a widow at a relatively young age (when my grandfather was 11) and, yeah she "managed" but it was by no means glorious or easy, nor was it a good thing. The furphy about the whole "back in X day, we managed" is that you can argue it for pretty much EVERY single loving thing we have today. 4,000 years ago, humans managed, but you don't see people clamouring to go back to living in a gatherer/hunter society with no modern medical treatments available. It's one of the arguments that basically says we, as a species, need not advance in any area or way because we can "manage".
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 14:10 |
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CrazyTolradi posted:The furphy about the whole "back in X day, we managed" is that you can argue it for pretty much EVERY single loving thing we have today. 4,000 years ago, humans managed, but you don't see people clamouring to go back to living in a gatherer/hunter society with no modern medical treatments available. It's one of the arguments that basically says we, as a species, need not advance in any area or way because we can "manage". It's also especially hilarious because technically speaking anyone/thing that couldn't manage back in the day doesn't have any living descendants. You are, by definition, part of an unbroken line all the way back to the first lifeform. Since we all "managed" before money was a thing, presumably she's all for the abolition of property rights and wealth?
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 14:19 |
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shalcar posted:It's also especially hilarious because technically speaking anyone/thing that couldn't manage back in the day doesn't have any living descendants. You are, by definition, part of an unbroken line all the way back to the first lifeform. Using the "we managed' logic, we should all go back to being single cell life forms because we managed back then too.
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 14:34 |
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It's often known as the "Golden Age" fallacy, you may as well say we hosed up when we came down from the trees.
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 14:55 |
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I really feel that there's something uniquely Australian in that brand of "I suffered <hardship> so therefore nobody else is allowed to receive any kind of support or take action in defence of their rights when they're going through <hardship>" My mum says that poo poo all the time. Gettin mad at mums
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 15:07 |
Jonah Galtberg posted:I really feel that there's something uniquely Australian in that brand of "I suffered <hardship> so therefore nobody else is allowed to receive any kind of support or take action in defence of their rights when they're going through <hardship>" Nah, it's a thing with conservatives. I see the same crab bucket attitude in the US, the posters in the UKMT also see that kind of thinking in the UK and I would bet that it's something you see from every culture to one degree or another.
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 15:18 |
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CrazyTolradi posted:Using the "we managed' logic, we should all go back to being single cell life forms because we managed back then too. I was going to post Stewart Lee on the UKIPs but it seems BBC has taken down all the videos of it. edit: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1lwl2j_stewart-lee-s-comedy-vehicle-s03e02_fun about 8 minutes into that. Gough Suppressant fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 2, 2014 |
# ? Aug 2, 2014 15:34 |
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Nah, it's a thing with conservatives. I see the same crab bucket attitude in the US, the posters in the UKMT also see that kind of thinking in the UK and I would bet that it's something you see from every culture to one degree or another. Japan is a pretty conservative country. Chicken Parma, do they think like this there, also?
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 17:48 |
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PPL gone. Wait no sorry, "deferred" http://www.smh.com.au/national/tony-abbotts-paid-parental-leave-scheme-deferred-with-no-due-date-in-sight-20140802-zzsbl.html
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 23:16 |
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Zenithe posted:PPL gone. Wait no sorry, "deferred" I'm pretty sure right from the start that the LNP only developed a paid parental leave policy was because "they have PPL policy so we need one". I doubt they ever intended to actually fight for it at all
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 23:20 |
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Apart from a handful of olds who would be "young people these days " wherever they were from, the population in general is pretty chill about both the younger generation and the availability of welfare. Something to remember is that Japan had a very active socialist movement right up until the asset bubble started—the Japan Socialist Party was the biggest opposition party for decades, for example, and the Communist Party (which is basically our only choice of socialist party these days) consistently gets 8-10 seats in the Upper House. People might not be as vocal as other countries on these topics but there's a fairly consistent expectation that everyone gets the help they need through welfare. The current economically- and socially-right wing government, on the other hand, has two goals: Be more like the U.S. economically, and take Japan back to its glory days of the 1930s, I poo poo you not. For some reason, PM Abe's small dick would seem a lot bigger if everyone in the country would quit being so uppity and just realise that (1) Japan is #1 and (2) traditional family values are best for everyone, now get back in the kitchen. Overall, it sucks, because you've got the government, the business lobby and the public each with their own ideas, and at the moment the first two are pretty much in lockstep. Lower taxes for big businesses, stop hindering us with these antiquated ideas of "minimum wage" and "protection for poor SE Asian workers who are flown in to to the dirty work (and then flown out again ASAP), and raise the consumption tax because dontcha know we all gotta pay our fair share, now pay up, poors! e: Sorry, I wasn't Chicken Parma!
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# ? Aug 2, 2014 23:35 |
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The government provided a great deal of assistance. They took your kids off you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Children
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 00:12 |
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I know it's days old by now, but I still can't get beyond Erica's "when jobs are scarce, you apply for more jobs!" line. Has he never actually applied for a job, out of the blue, off of an ad, ever? Not once in his long life? Is he just twirling towards freedom and throwing up along the way? He either: - Believes that "jobs are scarce" meant either high employment or high unemployment. Both situations which see a reduction in job ads. - Believes that employers push ads out into the aether. - Lives on the tears of the unemployed, learned from the ancient magicks of the Ruddock, which he did practices on the refugees.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 01:14 |
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Gough Suppressant posted:I was going to post Stewart Lee on the UKIPs but it seems BBC has taken down all the videos of it. Bloody Neolithic people coming over here...reality is too full, ah those nothing times. So I watched Insiders, didn't I? What a fool. Highlights were well-off journos wondering why people aren't going for a miner's critique of welfare payments, and what's the problem with a welfare card anyway, and cheerfully expecting the Budget to pass, it's just going to be "complicated". Oh and the government moving refugees around and some terrible stories about Nauru oh noes lets look at cartoons.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 01:23 |
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Bomb-Bunny posted:I know it's days old by now, but I still can't get beyond Erica's "when jobs are scarce, you apply for more jobs!" line. Has he never actually applied for a job, out of the blue, off of an ad, ever? Not once in his long life? Is he just twirling towards freedom and throwing up along the way? I believe lord Abetz is directly conflating 'bootstraps' and 'job applications'. Make a game out of it, whenever you realise that some old, rich, white guy has found a new metric for 'bootstraps' take a drink.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 01:28 |
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ewe2 posted:So I watched Insiders, didn't I? What a fool. Highlights were well-off journos wondering why people aren't going for a miner's critique of welfare payments, and what's the problem with a welfare card anyway, and cheerfully expecting the Budget to pass, it's just going to be "complicated". Oh and the government moving refugees around and some terrible stories about Nauru oh noes lets look at cartoons. "The welfare card isn't that bad and people won't be singled out" So it won't work then? I mean, given that psychological humiliation is the exact loving point of the policy.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 01:49 |
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http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/conscience-vote-likely-on-samesex-marriage-20140801-3czl5.htmlquote:Conscience vote likely on same-sex marriage
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 02:15 |
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Conscience votes only work if everybody voting has one.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 02:31 |
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Vladimir Poutine posted:http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/conscience-vote-likely-on-samesex-marriage-20140801-3czl5.html This is going to be the same-sex marriage legislation that the LNP and Labor will conscious vote on, isn't it? It's going to be worded in a way to remove the governments authority over marriage, and be a nightmare to implement. The people who would typically vote for same-sex marriage will vote against it due to its terrible drafting, and will keep gay marriage off the table for another 3-6 years. Go ahead and prove me wrong government
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 02:34 |
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Bomb-Bunny posted:"The welfare card isn't that bad and people won't be singled out" Abbott literally did a Yes Minister on it in a presser; as one Insider remarked, it only got attention when it was being applied to white people. As much as they'd love to implement it, they have some political survival instinct left enough to avoid that trap. Still, Hockey is trying to play Mr Nice Guy again with crossbenchers like Lambie and at the same time Abbott is playing Mr No again, so they're loving up their messaging again and won't be shifting electoral opinion any time soon. The surprising thing about the Forrest report is that, aside from ridiculous card ideas, it actually proposes proper training and support programs for jobseekers that cost money. That is guaranteed to never be implemented, of course. Still, the take-away for me was that well-off journos didn't for a second ask why is a miner who doesn't pay tax suddenly the best choice for a welfare program review.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 02:34 |
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http://www.smh.com.au/act-news/the-young-liberal-spy-network-20140802-zzofu.html?google_editors_picks=true lol
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 02:48 |
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Lid posted:http://www.smh.com.au/act-news/the-young-liberal-spy-network-20140802-zzofu.html?google_editors_picks=true Joe Hockey is a member of the left?
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 02:58 |
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More than 5000 fascists are at a rally in Sydney.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:01 |
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Lid posted:http://www.smh.com.au/act-news/the-young-liberal-spy-network-20140802-zzofu.html?google_editors_picks=true Taliban is the name given to the right wing faction.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:16 |
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/bob-hawke-nuclear-waste-storage-could-end-indigenous-disadvantage Australia could end the disadvantage endured by its indigenous population by opening up traditional lands as dumping sites for nuclear waste from around the world, a former prime minister, Bob Hawke, has said. Hawke said he was confident that the answer to long-standing indigenous socioeconomic problems was to allow radioactive waste to be stored on Aboriginal land, and use the revenue to improve living standards.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:30 |
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Gough Suppressant posted:More than 5000 fascists are at a rally in Sydney. The first thing I thought when I read that was "suicide vest". You've loving broken me, Auspol.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:40 |
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ewe2 posted:The surprising thing about the Forrest report is that, aside from ridiculous card ideas, it actually proposes proper training and support programs for jobseekers that cost money. That is guaranteed to never be implemented, of course. Still, the take-away for me was that well-off journos didn't for a second ask why is a miner who doesn't pay tax suddenly the best choice for a welfare program review. If you look at it from Twiggy's point of view it's not, it's another subsidy for him, government pays for training that, I'm sure, would conveniently be in the areas he needs skilled workers. I'm not saying that should negate the bleeding obvious, that job seekers should get real training. But as Malcolm Farr pointed out on Insiders, we need something like the old Commonwealth Employment Service, so that unemployment services aren't vulnerable to market manipulation and scamming. This thread alone is a font of evidence that that is not currently the case. I'm glad that these things are getting a societal backlash, but I wonder whether the tories constant "WHERE ARE THE OTHER OPTIONS!" rhetoric won't get to wearing on people eventually.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:44 |
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in the miso soup posted:http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/03/bob-hawke-nuclear-waste-storage-could-end-indigenous-disadvantage What the gently caress is this poo poo.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:47 |
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Ahahahahahahahahaha, amazing. Yes, the end to indigenous turmoil is to turn ancestral land into massive radioactive waste dumps. Sure.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:49 |
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Well the land we've left them with is utterly worthless so
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:52 |
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Cartoon posted:Well the land we've left them with is utterly worthless so This is pretty much the exact reasoning by people who want to dump nuclear waste and is pretty offensive and I'm not sure whether your serious or not and
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:57 |
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Like, "what's so special about a bunch of rocks you can't even grow wheat or farm sheep on" is an attitude that indigenous people have to fight against every day
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 03:58 |
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I really want to see Clive's Eric Abetz impersonation.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 04:02 |
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Bomb-Bunny posted:If you look at it from Twiggy's point of view it's not, it's another subsidy for him, government pays for training that, I'm sure, would conveniently be in the areas he needs skilled workers. I'm not saying that should negate the bleeding obvious, that job seekers should get real training. But as Malcolm Farr pointed out on Insiders, we need something like the old Commonwealth Employment Service, so that unemployment services aren't vulnerable to market manipulation and scamming. This thread alone is a font of evidence that that is not currently the case. Absolutely, Twiggy benefits from it, but how interesting that the journos sell it as if it isn't. They leave out the part "by the way, he totally benefits": Tingle actually put it as if we're all forgetting the good part. And we'll never get the CES back as long as neoliberals shout it down with the dogma that government-run services are BAD and INEFFICIENT quote:I'm glad that these things are getting a societal backlash, but I wonder whether the tories constant "WHERE ARE THE OTHER OPTIONS!" rhetoric won't get to wearing on people eventually. It's already worn down most journos who simply aren't interested in tackling the dogma. Keep in mind that the debate itself is already so right-wing that even a centrist argument looks lefty.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 04:04 |
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As one of the most consistent and insistent pro indigenous rights posters on AusPol I hoped that my dual layer irony was obvious but just in case you stumbled upon this page with no foreknowledge of context what-so-ever: The fact the mainstream Australia sees no worth in the lands that are subject to successful land claims is shameful but probably also allowed these claims to succeed. This is at the core of both Mr Hawke and Mr Forrest's thinking. It is very hard not to connect the dots and see Mr Forrest's keenness for indigenous sovereignty is directly related to his ambition to then exploit the inherent mineral rights while subverting the Commonwealth Environmental Protection Act. Probably more tellingly is even after handing over what is widely seen as worthless land people like Mr Forrest and Hawke still think we can dictate what the 'new' owners do with it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NakFom64MuA But please feel free to advocate for my early self enacted euthanasia, I'm probably more complicit than many just due to my age.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 04:14 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 14:08 |
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If I actually was convinced that you were saying it in all honesty I wouldn't have responded the way I did. You don't usually fake post to that degree and I know you are generally pretty cool so I was honestly confused.
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# ? Aug 3, 2014 04:45 |