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Strobe posted:You know what else does that? Pretty much. The only difference is that you can save TLs for later, whereas focus is something you pick and use in the same round. And even that is assuming you don't have any focus-manipulating abilities. I'd imagine that you could build something interesting with him in a setup with an anchor ship that keeps handing out TLs to other players, but even then, there are combos that do the same with focus. The other situation I can think of is if you're building some kind of setup or manoeuvring strategy that will pretty much always gather stress as it lines up its attacks. You pick up your target locks during non-stressed rounds and then spend them during the rounds when you aren't allowed to focus. Tippis fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 23:22
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Strobe posted:You know what else does that? totally hadn't thought of that thanks man
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Aug 2, 2014 23:25
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midge posted:totally hadn't thought of that thanks man Sorry, I didn't realize that my sarcasm and pointing out the bloody obvious would offense your tender sensibilities. He's not a particularly good card unless you build your entire list (or a big ship) around him. There are better ways to do it. Literally any Rebel pilot that can take PTL qualifies, especially since you can use PTL in many more situations while also getting
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Aug 2, 2014 23:31
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It gives you an option. I've ended up rolling double focus dice many times with a target lock because I'm attacking the same turn that I acquired the lock. I'd much rather turn those two eyes into hits instead of rolling the dice again. "extremely situation" is a bit of a push. The turn when you get a TL (unless you have the ability to otherwise grab a focus) you will not have the focus. Not to mention that if you do have a focus you'd be able to save it ready to use during defense. It allows you to test your luck without commiting to burning the lock. If I'm making an attack and roll miss-miss-hit, I'd probably not use the TL and save it for a later turn. If I roll eye-eye-hit I would 100% use that ability. It's not a great way to spend 2 points, but with the upcoming ability to throw crew onto a B-Wing whom love taking single turn TLs because they don't give a gently caress about defense, he's not a complete wash. \/ It also uses a different slot. midge fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Aug 2, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 23:45
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midge posted:It gives you an option. I've ended up rolling double focus dice many times with a target lock because I'm attacking the same turn that I acquired the lock. I'd much rather turn those two eyes into hits instead of rolling the dice again. "extremely situation" is a bit of a push. The turn when you get a TL (unless you have the ability to otherwise grab a focus) you will not have the focus. Not to mention that if you do have a focus you'd be able to save it ready to use during defense. A better use of two points on a B-wing is FCS, which gives you a target lock and the ability to get a focus on the following turn. He's not a good card. EDIT: especially because that B-Wing title costs points, too, so you're effectively spending four points in order to get "swap between focus/TL" ability. That's way too much, especially since you can pick up PTL to let you do both for three points. The only situation in which Han is more points-effective than PTL is a ship that has a crewmember slot but can't take PTL. Also known as the Rebel Operative, who is useless in more ways than any rebel ship on the field, and the Outer Rim Smuggler, which is similarly pretty useless when you can get a Y-wing with a blaster turret and a hull upgrade to get more attack, one less shield, and a better dial for the same cost. EDIT II: gently caress, Rebel Operative can do better, too, by taking the Moldy Crow Title. There you have it, the only place that the Han Solo Crew is more effective than other options available to the same ship is the Outer Rim Smuggler, which is a pretty poo poo ship. Strobe fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 2, 2014 23:47
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Well, there doesn't seem to be a reason for me to buy them for now. I guess if I ever have extra money floating around I'll grab them for the sake of having them but it's good to know they didn't pack some ultra great upgrade or something in there.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:24
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C-3P0 is hands down the best crew to come in the pack, if you can fit him on a one-agility ship, like the Falcon or a new B-Wing with title. He guarantees at least one free evade per turn, and if you need more than one or you die, he can pull through in a pinch.
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Aug 3, 2014 00:27
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Arrgytehpirate posted:Well, there doesn't seem to be a reason for me to buy them for now. I guess if I ever have extra money floating around I'll grab them for the sake of having them but it's good to know they didn't pack some ultra great upgrade or something in there. C-3PO is really fuckin good dude
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Aug 3, 2014 00:38
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No love for the escort pilots lik Jek, Tarn, and Hobbie?
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Aug 3, 2014 01:49
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They come in the Transport, don't they? Porkins is... only kinda alright, mostly because he's a really cheap PS 7 X-Wing. Hobbie doesn't get an EPT, and the only way to actually use his ability is to pair him with something that dispenses target locks because he has to be stressed for it to matter at all and if he's stressed he can't get a target lock. That means you can't grab the astromech that gives you an EPT, or you have to bring Dutch. Jansen is the best of them, but I wouldn't buy a Transport just to use him. Especially since the recent FAQ mentions that the tokens he's capable of removing may be used against his attack before they're removed.
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Aug 3, 2014 02:01
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Found out today that the 2013 world champ goes to the events near me. No wonder competition is tough. He was playing a fat Han, a Z, and Biggs list in today's tournament. As expected there were tons of phantom lists running around. quote:Jansen is the best of them, but I wouldn't buy a Transport just to use him. Especially since the recent FAQ mentions that the tokens he's capable of removing may be used against his attack before they're removed. Tarn mason is an ok pilot if you're trying to make a list where all pilots are independent of each other. Problem is that the best pilots of that list are heavy hitters like wedge who would benefit more from Biggs allowing them to live for an extra turn.
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Aug 3, 2014 02:21
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I think Tarn + R7 is one of the best solo 25 points you can spend, but I don't think it's "buy a transport just for him" good.
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Aug 3, 2014 04:23
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If you pair Porkins with R5-D8 and something like Push the Limit, he can be pretty good.
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Aug 3, 2014 05:37
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Leo Showers posted:If you pair Porkins with R5-D8 and something like Push the Limit, he can be pretty good. You're still more likely to hurt yourself and not clear it than you are to get away with the maneuver. 37.5% chance to automatically take a face-down damage, and then another 37.5% chance (and an action!) to make it go away. For PTL, you have to use the non-action bar action first to trigger it, which means that the stress you're trying to get rid of is very capable of inflicting a damage that you can't get rid of until next turn. You have a 23.4% chance to take damage and fail to clear it, even if you get to use the action to try. Without that, it's pretty similar to running over an asteroid that just ignores your shields. Granted, it's more useful with K-turns, but at that point just bring Adrenaline Rush (for cheaper). If you need to K-turn and immediately engage more than once per game you probably need to rethink your deployment or maneuvering. I'm not a huge fan of Porkins. It's easy to force or entice someone into doing something that they otherwise wouldn't do "because it's Porkins and he can clear that stress" but puts them in a worse position than a conventional move. If you're using Porkins right, you're using him as a PS 7 X-Wing with an EPT and ignoring his ability for 90% of the games you play, until it comes down to one on one and you need an action right goddamn now.
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Aug 3, 2014 06:17
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Strobe posted:You're still more likely to hurt yourself and not clear it than you are to get away with the maneuver. 37.5% chance to automatically take a face-down damage, and then another 37.5% chance (and an action!) to make it go away. For PTL, you have to use the non-action bar action first to trigger it, which means that the stress you're trying to get rid of is very capable of inflicting a damage that you can't get rid of until next turn. You have a 23.4% chance to take damage and fail to clear it, even if you get to use the action to try. Without that, it's pretty similar to running over an asteroid that just ignores your shields. Adrenaline Rush is literally a one-off. I usually (used to at least) play PtL Interceptors, I guess I'm not so hung up about the risk Porkins can involve, especially if it's a really good shot. It's really not about Pushing the Limit all the time, or even most of the time. It's having a ship which is flexible enough to be able to get sick nasty shots off when normally you'd be packing stress or whatever. I completely disagree with your notion about engaging after a K-turn, there is now even a ship completely devoted to the idea of getting great shots off after K-Turning. It's all down to playstyle, and Porkins fits in well with an aggressive build. Although I haven't actually tested it, I'd even argue that Porkins with Roark would actually be good against Phantoms, as Porkins should be able to get into a position with little/or no stress, and really all you need is a couple of good hits in order to sink one of those bad boys.
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Aug 3, 2014 06:32
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Leo Showers posted:Adrenaline Rush is literally a one-off. I usually (used to at least) play PtL Interceptors, I guess I'm not so hung up about the risk Porkins can involve, especially if it's a really good shot. It's really not about Pushing the Limit all the time, or even most of the time. It's having a ship which is flexible enough to be able to get sick nasty shots off when normally you'd be packing stress or whatever. I completely disagree with your notion about engaging after a K-turn, there is now even a ship completely devoted to the idea of getting great shots off after K-Turning. There's a ship right now completely devoted to the notion of engaging after a K-turn because it is designed as an energy fighter, hence the white K. Taking a ship with a red K and letting it slowly kill itself in order to pretend to be an energy fighter does not make it a good energy fighter. And I want to stress again (heh), you can't use R5-D8 to clear that face-down damage when you use PTL. PTL is specifically an action in your action bar that you get for free, which means you have to either use R5-D8 first (with probably no damage to clear), or you can't use it at all and have a decently high chance of taking the damage. After that, you have to spend between a half and a third of your PTL actions if you're in a dogfight to undo the damage you're doing to yourself to get that PTL to actually work. Jek Porkins is a trap to kill people who secretly want to fly Interceptors. A better option for an X-wing that wants to PTL all day long and be good at doing it is a high skill pilot with an EPT and an R2 astromech. Green hard 2s are marvelous maneuvers. Give it an engine upgrade and go to town. Just don't use Porkins. EDIT: Fun fact. Luke with PTL and R2 Astromech is the same points cost as Porkins with PTL and R5-D8, except Luke is better at PS, better at clearing stress without dying, and better at avoiding hits. Luke is a better Porkins than Porkins is. Strobe fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Aug 3, 2014 |
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Aug 3, 2014 06:37
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The point I'm trying to make here is that as far as instaneous options, Porkins is pretty great. If necessary, he can K-turn or any other red maneuver and then PtL. You don't have to clear every stress with his ability, that's not the point. The point is to use it when needed in order to kill the maximum number of points to win. Sure, it's risky and not always consistent. Your example with Luke still wouldn't be able to do what Porkins could do, because Luke would either be stressed from the maneuver and can't PtL, or stressed from PtL'ing. Porkins isn't an Interceptor, but really what you are looking at is being able to get an amazing shot off when you really need it. Just a different perspective on Porkins.
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Aug 3, 2014 07:02
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Leo Showers posted:The point I'm trying to make here is that as far as instaneous options, Porkins is pretty great. If necessary, he can K-turn or any other red maneuver and then PtL. You don't have to clear every stress with his ability, that's not the point. The point is to use it when needed in order to kill the maximum number of points to win. Sure, it's risky and not always consistent. Your example with Luke still wouldn't be able to do what Porkins could do, because Luke would either be stressed from the maneuver and can't PtL, or stressed from PtL'ing. Porkins isn't an Interceptor, but really what you are looking at is being able to get an amazing shot off when you really need it. Just a different perspective on Porkins. It's like I already said that or something, and mentioned how it's still not that great in 90% of games you play. Strobe posted:It's easy to force or entice someone into doing something that they otherwise wouldn't do "because it's Porkins and he can clear that stress" but puts them in a worse position than a conventional move. If you're using Porkins right, you're using him as a PS 7 X-Wing with an EPT and ignoring his ability for 90% of the games you play, until it comes down to one on one and you need an action right goddamn now.
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Aug 3, 2014 07:06
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Would Jan Dodanna work on the ship he's attached to?
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Aug 3, 2014 16:46
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This game seems pretty popular at my LGS so I've been thinking of getting into it. The OP looks a little out of date though, I assume I still start with the starter box but after that are there any resources for what expansions are good/bad or what general types of lists people run and what stuff I'd need for them? I'm coming from a warmachine/hordes background so I'm not sure how much all that matters, in that game I tended to pick a full list that had a play style or aesthetic I was interested in and just buy all the parts for it and play it for a while.
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Aug 3, 2014 17:06
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His card specifically says another friendly ship
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Aug 3, 2014 17:06
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M. Night Skymall posted:This game seems pretty popular at my LGS so I've been thinking of getting into it. The OP looks a little out of date though, I assume I still start with the starter box but after that are there any resources for what expansions are good/bad or what general types of lists people run and what stuff I'd need for them? I'm coming from a warmachine/hordes background so I'm not sure how much all that matters, in that game I tended to pick a full list that had a play style or aesthetic I was interested in and just buy all the parts for it and play it for a while. WMH background is good because you'll be familiar with making lists that promote synergy which is what most successful lists require. You'll probably enjoy a tie swarm or Biggs support build. The only bad expansions I know of are the a-wing, HWK, tie advanced, and tie bomber unless you get 4 of them and that list is pretty bad now. Everything else could fit into some sort of decent list.
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Aug 3, 2014 17:26
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Chill la Chill posted:WMH background is good because you'll be familiar with making lists that promote synergy which is what most successful lists require. You'll probably enjoy a tie swarm or Biggs support build.
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Aug 3, 2014 17:29
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The E-Wing with R2, Advanced Sensors and PTL is a monster. So many points, but I almost don't want to fly anything else now, and it's even better with an engine upgrade. Even though a 2 ship list got me creamed at my last tournament I really am leaning towards a Han/Corran build instead of a Han/ZZZ(Z).
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Aug 3, 2014 19:44
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I did Han/Corran at Atlanta. You have to be reeeeally careful. I managed 3-3 but two of my wins were with either Han or Corran as the single ship left with only 1 hull.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:03
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So, I've been toying around with a list designed to utterly infuriate everyone with stress and ion tokens. Couldn't get *everything* I wanted, but this is what I came up with: "Dutch" Vander (23) Ion Cannon Turret (5) R5-K6 (2) Gold Sq. Pilot (18) Ion Cannon Turret (5) Gold Sq. Pilot (18) Flechette Torpedo (2) Flechette Torpedo (2) Munitions Failsafe (1) Gold Sq. Pilot (18) Flechette Torpedo (2) Flechette Torpedo (2) Munitions Failsafe (1) Total: 100 points The idea behind it is that Flechette Torpedoes with Munitions Failsafe are effectively multi-use each. The stress is assigned automatically to (most) small ships, but the failsafe prevents it from being used up if it misses. The stress stays. All the while, they're swinging with 3 dice at ranges that Y-Wings aren't normally allowed to swing with 3 dice. For kicks and giggles, focus fire, assign a half dozen stress tokens, and then ion the bugger until they get frustrated and quit.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:16
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Chill la Chill posted:The only bad expansions I know of are the a-wing, HWK, tie advanced, and tie bomber unless you get 4 of them and that list is pretty bad now. Everything else could fit into some sort of decent list. I keep hearing this about the HWK but not only has it never let me down, we actually had 2 of them on the table in today's loony 200vs200 team game. And while Roark got it early from Whisper, my dear precious Rebel Operative chugged along to the very end, equalizing situation after situation. I can understand it being unpopular because it's limited dial makes it the hardest turret platform to use, but that just makes it all the more satisfying. Keep it cheap and shoot all the TIEs.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:28
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It has more problems than just its dial. One shield and four hull mean it's more susceptible to early critical hits than any other rebel ship, and the attack value of one means you're forced to either not do any damage at all, or use a Blaster Turret that forces you to focus every turn and not use that focus for defense.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:34
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Kyle Katarn is the reason i was able to kill my brother Darth Vader in the last game we played. I'd just see where he was going then have Tycho and Wedge intercept. A shame he ended crashing into an asteroid and dying in the end though. Also wanted to annouce that i got myself 2 TIE Phantoms,a Z-95 and an E-Wing from Amazon today! :whoop: is it worth my to get either CR90 or the Tantive IV? The concept of these huge ships intruiges me but i'd have problems storing it plus the price is a bit high.
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Aug 3, 2014 21:44
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Hra Mormo posted:I keep hearing this about the HWK but not only has it never let me down, we actually had 2 of them on the table in today's loony 200vs200 team game. And while Roark got it early from Whisper, my dear precious Rebel Operative chugged along to the very end, equalizing situation after situation. I can understand it being unpopular because it's limited dial makes it the hardest turret platform to use, but that just makes it all the more satisfying. I'd put this case down to the fact that it was a lower-threat ship. The times I've had a HWK plonked in front of me, I've killed it pretty quickly because in many cases it's the easiest ship to shoot and pretty easy points.
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Aug 3, 2014 22:18
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Hra Mormo posted:I keep hearing this about the HWK but not only has it never let me down, we actually had 2 of them on the table in today's loony 200vs200 team game. And while Roark got it early from Whisper, my dear precious Rebel Operative chugged along to the very end, equalizing situation after situation. I can understand it being unpopular because it's limited dial makes it the hardest turret platform to use, but that just makes it all the more satisfying. Right. They are better at larger point games due to their support roles. In 100 point games I'd much rather have Dutch or gold with ion cannon. They have more HP, maneuvers, and Dutch's target lock is a great support action anyway.
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Aug 3, 2014 22:21
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Chill la Chill posted:Right. They are better at larger point games due to their support roles. In 100 point games I'd much rather have Dutch or gold with ion cannon. They have more HP, maneuvers, and Dutch's target lock is a great support action anyway. This is the first time I've played a game that wasn't 100 points, where my HWK experience stems from. By comparison Y-wings have better tank and maneuvers but either have to resort to ion turrets or severely hamper their flexibility because they can't get a recon specialist. The resulting Y-wing is either not worth shooting at, at which point it doesn't deserve to be in any list ever, or is too expensive to be expendable. The whole key concept of my HWK is being worth shooting at AND expendable. That might not be what you want in a ship, but it sure as hell is what I want, and it hasn't let me down yet. Hell, the game I played today actually had a gold/ion (not mine). Was it wrecking faces and ruining the imperial game plan? No, it was ignored and mostly harmless. I personally don't know how to plan games around ships people are willing to ignore. I need the HWK who is bait, hunter and fodder. As a caveat, if I could fit Dutch into the same lists and roles as the HWK, the choice would be much more difficult. Most of the time though, the choice is not between Dutch and the HWK, but between Dutch and an extra ship.
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Aug 4, 2014 00:38
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This is just anecdotal but I have never lost a game against a list using the HWK. Granted I've only ever faced them using Interceptors and Fighters. They die too fast and 1 shot against 3/4 agility is laughable.
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Aug 4, 2014 01:34
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One shot is laughable, but Kyle Katarn can be a turret-gunning, focus-allocating machine. Given it'll be 2 turns of maneuvers before anything is in range, you'll be sitting on a stack of 4-6 focus by the time you need to start handing it out to your heavy hitters. Wedge being able to reroll with Target Lock and have a focus spare without using PtL is great, and the turret on a HWK is pretty mean in it's own right. Not an auto-include in any right, but it can be more than dead weight.
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Aug 4, 2014 03:41
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Yeah, I've used HWKs to great effect. Moldy Crow+RecSpec+Blaster turret can be NASTY, and all three named pilots have very useful abilities. Not impossible to kill, sure, but if your opponent lets you build up a bunch of focuses, they can still tank a bit.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:34
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As I said, you're usually sitting on 4-6 by the time the action starts, and even if you're firing the blaster each turn the stack is still growing. If you're using them for defense/offense/gifting them to other ships it starts depleting though, and makes the enemy have the tough choice of 'shoot the support ship with a huge stack Focus or kill off the other stuff while he blasts us'. For added fun and gimmicks, pair him with Airen Cracken and have it generate 4 focus a turn 
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Aug 4, 2014 06:46
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HiveCommander posted:
Cant do the same action twice
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Aug 4, 2014 06:51
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See, at the point where you've got a HWK with Moldy Crow, Recon specialist, and a Blaster turret, I would much rather have the Red Squadron Pilot with a decent Astromech, or the Rookie Pilot with a shield upgrade than I would the HWK. It's slow, it's vulnerable, and the only way to get utility out of it is to pile on the upgrades.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:57
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zVxTeflon posted:Cant do the same action twice Oh drat, there goes that plan. I can see how abusable the daisy-chain of Focus could be with that setup. I was thinking of giving this list a try in the coming weeks; it's been a while since I've brought out a Y-wing. Gold Squadron Pilot/Y-Wing (18) R5 Astromech (1) Ion Cannon Turret (5) Corran Horn/E-Wing (35) R2-D2 (4) Fire-Control System (2) Marksmanship (3) Wedge Antilles/X-Wing (29) Outmaneuver (3) I have been eyeing off B-wings lately, but I've fallen in love with Corran and Outmaneuvering Wedge. I figure that the Y-wing will make it a lot easier for me to get in positions where the enemy is at -2 evade dice, and Corran is just plain incredible with FCS and Marksmanship. What are the popular B-wing loadouts?
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Aug 4, 2014 07:40
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The HWK is basically a fun, adaptable ship with interesting specials, but the 1 Agility and favouring Hull over Shield kicks it to the curb. I run it happily at >100 points, but at the standard game size, it's just competing too hard to be included, generally.
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Aug 4, 2014 09:25
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