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I laughed about the merging of thread out loud for like 2 minutes. thanks.
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Jul 30, 2014 20:28
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Cyrano4747 posted:Paradox games being broken poo poo heaps is a blessing from on high. The day they make a game that just works my marriage, career, and health will fall apart in about that order until I'm just an over-educated loser living in his mom's basement trying to un-gently caress the Holy Roman Empire before my kidneys fail. CK2 and EU4 work very well and don't have the absurd learning curve anymore. I think they've figured things out. 
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Jul 31, 2014 02:33
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Did the emperor or senators ever fight in the arena like in that historically accurate movie Gladiator?
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Jul 31, 2014 05:53
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bobthedinosaur posted:Did the emperor or senators ever fight in the arena like in that historically accurate movie Gladiator? Yeah, for sure. That's how Commodus died in real life.
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Jul 31, 2014 06:21
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bobthedinosaur posted:Did the emperor or senators ever fight in the arena like in that historically accurate movie Gladiator? Commodus did, but it was considered taboo for men of Senatorial rank to do so.
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Jul 31, 2014 06:22
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Origin posted:Commodus did, but it was considered taboo for men of Senatorial rank to do so. I vaguely recall one of the (more unstable) Emperors forcing members of the senate to fight because he knew it would humiliate them? Or was that just something I picked up from one of the many shows involving ancient Rome?
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Jul 31, 2014 07:04
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Origin posted:Commodus did, but it was considered taboo for men of Senatorial rank to do so. Ha, I was only being facetious. I'd forgotten he actually did fight. Wikipedia posted:Commodus was also known for fighting exotic animals in the arena, often to the horror of the Roman people. According to Gibbon, Commodus once killed 100 lions in a single day. Later, he decapitated a running ostrich with a specially designed dart and afterwards carried the bleeding head of the dead bird and his sword over to the section where the Senators sat and gesticulated as though they were next. Dio notes that the targeted senators actually found this more ridiculous than frightening, and chewed on laurel leaves to conceal their laughter.[21] On another occasion, Commodus killed three elephants on the floor of the arena by himself. Finally, Commodus killed a giraffe, which was considered to be a strange and helpless beast.
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Jul 31, 2014 07:09
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If I won the lottery, I'd pay some people to create a "Papers, Please"-esque game called Colonus where you're a serf in the 4th century on a giant latifundia in southern Gaul and you watch a flock of sheep in real time. It would be like one of those truck driver simulations, but set in the era before french fries and cigarettes. After 250,000 hours of gameplay watching those sheep, you run off and join the Bagaudae, I swear!
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Jul 31, 2014 07:34
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Octy posted:Yeah, for sure. That's how Commodus died in real life. While he did fight in the arena and was throttled by a gladiator I believe it was in the baths because he'd been hired to assassinate the emperor rather than in the arena.
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Jul 31, 2014 19:04
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Might as well ask this earlier in the thread, people were asking about the collapse of Roman Civilization and how the Fall is generally incorrect and much of the Empire/infrastructure survived for at least a century or more before transitioning more into what we commonly consider either the "dark ages" or early medieval period. One thing I read several years ago, it might have even been in a textbook was that one of the main causes of the decline of cities/roman institutions stemmed from the plague of Justinian, that was nearly as destructive as the black death. As a result many of the people who were still living in cities in the west either died off or fled to the countryside, similar to what happened at the tail end of the middle ages with the black death.That simply there weren't enough people left to make use of alot of the Roman infrastructure so it started to fall apart. Then later the Carolingian Renaissance was a mixture caused by increasing populations coupled with an actual serious attempt at centralized leadership which could project manpower at problems. Maybe that is all horribly wrong ,but I always have felt that seems like a reasonable explanation for how Roman Civilization came to an end in the West.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:30
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That's probably part of it, but there definitely was a breakdown in order in the west, which is evident in watching the cities start throwing up huge walls, and then the developing cities keep themselves within the walls. But that doesn't mean a plague and a flight to the countryside wasn't the general cause of that as a follow on effect.
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Jul 31, 2014 20:36
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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I was rewatching the old Worst Jobs in History recently, and they discussed gold mining in the era of Roman Britain and how it was dangerous, punishing labour. How did such oppressive industries proceed as the supply of cheap slave labour dried up?
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Jul 31, 2014 21:01
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MrNemo posted:While he did fight in the arena and was throttled by a gladiator I believe it was in the baths because he'd been hired to assassinate the emperor rather than in the arena. Yeah, as before, I was being facetious. I know how he died, but I'd forgotten he did fight as a gladiator.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:45
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Looks like I'm going to spend about a week in Rome in a few months. Definitely going to check out the Forum, Coliseum, Pantheon, Ostia and probably spend a day down at Pompeii. Any other cool places in and around Rome to check out from Antiquity?
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Aug 1, 2014 02:18
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Halloween Jack posted:I was rewatching the old Worst Jobs in History recently, and they discussed gold mining in the era of Roman Britain and how it was dangerous, punishing labour. How did such oppressive industries proceed as the supply of cheap slave labour dried up? For the most part, the miners didn't have much in the way of other options. You can still see this in third world nations where nominally free people will do all sorts of horrible jobs for just a few dollars a day. Theoretically, they could get a less horrible job, or move somewhere else. The problem is that everybody else is also competing for those better jobs. Moving away was also risky, since it was expensive and there was no guarantee that things would be any better once they moved, plus they lost all their social contacts.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:14
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They tended to send the worst slaves/criminals/battle captives to the mines since it was a 100% death sentence. Mines as far as I know got slave priority, you could get peasants to farm but there's no loving way a free Roman citizen would work in a mine and enjoy his average two year lifespan. A lot of the mines were probably tapped by the time that started being a problem, though.
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Aug 1, 2014 07:30
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Octy posted:Yeah, as before, I was being facetious. I know how he died, but I'd forgotten he did fight as a gladiator. Oh yeah I just think it's funny as hell a guy who loved nothing more than dressing as a gladiator, apparently took the training seriously and liked to fight midgets while being billed as a giant, was actually killed in a straight up fight with a real gladiator.
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Aug 1, 2014 09:51
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MrNemo posted:Oh yeah I just think it's funny as hell a guy who loved nothing more than dressing as a gladiator, apparently took the training seriously and liked to fight midgets while being billed as a giant, was actually killed in a straight up fight with a real gladiator. It's not a fair fight if you get strangled in a vulnerable position. Commodus totally would have won in an actual fight. 
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Aug 1, 2014 12:52
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The origin of the rear naked choke.
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Aug 1, 2014 14:00
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quote:The origin of the rear naked choke. What I find amusing is that the original "Mata leão" choke was apparently a guillotine (or at least that's what they figured in 400 BCE Sicily). 
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Aug 1, 2014 16:51
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What was so wrong with being a decurion in the later empire? I'm constantly coming across references to X Emperor ordering the executions of Y decurions, and also often the sons of decurions. It used to be a status symbol in the early empire, but I'm having trouble finding out why they were later seen as a threat (maybe)?
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Aug 3, 2014 01:45
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Octy posted:What was so wrong with being a decurion in the later empire? I'm constantly coming across references to X Emperor ordering the executions of Y decurions, and also often the sons of decurions. It used to be a status symbol in the early empire, but I'm having trouble finding out why they were later seen as a threat (maybe)? They stopped ponying up, basically. The position had always had an element of self-sacrifice to it, as you had to make up any shortfalls in tax collection from your own pocket, but the provincial elite were less wealthy in the later years and the tax rates were higher, so this became a crippling financial burden rather than a symbol of what a virtuous Roman you were. Decurions who fell short or who tried to skip town to avoid the payments were usually executed.
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Aug 3, 2014 03:26
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Jazerus posted:They stopped ponying up, basically. The position had always had an element of self-sacrifice to it, as you had to make up any shortfalls in tax collection from your own pocket, but the provincial elite were less wealthy in the later years and the tax rates were higher, so this became a crippling financial burden rather than a symbol of what a virtuous Roman you were. Decurions who fell short or who tried to skip town to avoid the payments were usually executed. Those poor decurions who might have been doing their job honestly: Ammianus Marcellinus posted:The emperor ordered the death of the decurions of three towns... Florentius when he heard that, because of some pardonable offence, the emperor had flown into a passion and ordered the execution likewise of three decurions in each of a number of cities; for he said: 'What is to be done, then, if any town does not have as many decurions? To the rest this also should be added, that they shall be killed, when the town has them'. Valentinian I was a bit of a dick, though.
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Aug 3, 2014 08:59
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Isn't he the one who died of an aneurysm in the middle of a screaming rant? And ruined the Gothic peace treaty?
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Aug 3, 2014 10:35
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Arglebargle III posted:Isn't he the one who died of an aneurysm in the middle of a screaming rant? And ruined the Gothic peace treaty? He did indeed die that way, although the Gothic fiasco was down to his co-ruler Valens, or rather some underlings who decided to fleece the Goths for all they were worth upon their arrival in the empire.
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Aug 3, 2014 11:08
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Grand Fromage posted:They tended to send the worst slaves/criminals/battle captives to the mines since it was a 100% death sentence. Mines as far as I know got slave priority, you could get peasants to farm but there's no loving way a free Roman citizen would work in a mine and enjoy his average two year lifespan. A lot of the mines were probably tapped by the time that started being a problem, though. Mining has always been a lovely job throughout history. Even today, if you're in a first world could country, mining is physically demanding job with decent pay, union benefits, and frequent safety exams by inspectors. And there are still plenty of mines today exploiting child labor, where a miner can expect to get a hand chopped off if the owner thinks a miner tried to rip him off.
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Aug 4, 2014 09:57
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For sure. Roman mines were loving horrific though. Tunnels barely two feet tall, extensive use of mercury to get the gold/silver out (not sure how this worked), enough burning coal and mercury smoke that ice cores show massive worldwide pollution from the empire, and a large part of that was from the mines specifically. Everyone who went in there as a miner died. Everyone.
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Aug 4, 2014 12:56
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How did the mines even function with two foot high tunnels?
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Aug 4, 2014 13:28
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The miners crawled on their bellies, and barely even had room to swing their tools.
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Aug 4, 2014 13:43
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Grand Fromage posted:Everyone who went in there as a miner died. Everyone. Sounds like a premise for a summer blockbuster...
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Aug 4, 2014 14:14
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Skellyscribe posted:The miners crawled on their bellies, and barely even had room to swing their tools. Pretty much. The mine tunnels were dug out just big enough for miners to get the gold out, and no bigger. Comfort and survival were pointless, after all.
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Aug 4, 2014 14:40
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Ainsley McTree posted:Sounds like a premise for a summer blockbuster... This was one that came out recently. Wrong millennium and continent, of course, but all about the excitement of mining operations with disposable labor.
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Aug 4, 2014 14:41
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:He did indeed die that way, although the Gothic fiasco was down to his co-ruler Valens, or rather some underlings who decided to fleece the Goths for all they were worth upon their arrival in the empire. Holy poo poo, there's an Emperor for everything, isn't there?
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Aug 4, 2014 15:28
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Grand Fromage posted:For sure. Roman mines were loving horrific though. Tunnels barely two feet tall, extensive use of mercury to get the gold/silver out (not sure how this worked), enough burning coal and mercury smoke that ice cores show massive worldwide pollution from the empire, and a large part of that was from the mines specifically. Everyone who went in there as a miner died. Everyone. If prisoners were sent to the mines what sort of crimes would lead to this sort of sentence, and was being sent to the mines a specific sentence that was codified in law, or was it more of a the punishment for x crime is slavery, and in this area slaves go to the mines? Is there any evidence of pressure from the owners/operators of mines on the local authorities (on judges to give the right kinds of sentences, for example) in an effort to acquire more workers for the mines? It seems like an industry that was basically a conveyor belt of death to its workforce would be really hard to sustain, and yet it obviously was sustained on a massive scale.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:39
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Best people are those dudes who sold their kids to slave mines. I think you could do this.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:42
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Grand Fromage posted:[...], extensive use of mercury to get the gold/silver out (not sure how this worked), [...]. Why Is Mercury Used In Gold Mining And Why Is It A Problem? "The three largest point sources for mercury emissions in the U.S. are the three largest gold mines."
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Aug 4, 2014 15:46
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I dunno enough about mine detail to do much of a post, it's always just mentioned as a side thing in stuff I've read. Here's a thing though, you may have seen it before: Seems like just a lovely desertish landscape in Spain, but is actually the remains of mountains that the Romans obliterated during mining operations. This was like the ancient equivalent of a superfund site. Birds would drop out of the air dead from fumes coming out of mines.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:50
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Does anyone know if there are any records of other cultures reactions to these mines at all? Or of any other large scale industrial practices. I imagine they would be quite shocked when they first stumble upon them, especially if birds are dropping out of the sky. Sounds like loving Mordor.
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Aug 4, 2014 16:30
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Grand Fromage posted:For sure. Roman mines were loving horrific though. Tunnels barely two feet tall, extensive use of mercury to get the gold/silver out (not sure how this worked), enough burning coal and mercury smoke that ice cores show massive worldwide pollution from the empire, and a large part of that was from the mines specifically. Everyone who went in there as a miner died. Everyone. It worked by crushing up the ore, mixing it with mercury to soak up the traces of gold and silver, then boiling off the mercury to leave the gold behind. They did actually try to condense and recover the mercury vapor at least, but a fair amount was lost to the atmosphere.
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Aug 4, 2014 16:39
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I'm guessing that in the ancient world "crushing the ore" means back-breaking manual labor.
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Aug 4, 2014 16:57
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