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Jack Skeleton posted:It's been episodes since we've seen old man Zuko. What the gently caress, online only show, get on that poo poo. Korra would've been way better if Team Avatar had been the same as in ATLA. 3 or 4 ancient badasses and one teenage girl fight equalists and darkatars.
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Aug 5, 2014 13:24
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Mymla posted:Korra would've been way better if Team Avatar had been the same as in ATLA. 3 or 4 ancient badasses and one teenage girl fight equalists and darkatars. I wish they went full bore and went with a darkatar that could bend four elements and had a reincarnation cycle. That would present a whole host of moral problems for the good guys.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:08
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Yeah.. The continuous killing of a child dark avatar to repress... Dark morality indeed.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:50
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hiddenriverninja posted:I wish they went full bore and went with a darkatar that could bend four elements and had a reincarnation cycle. That would present a whole host of moral problems for the good guys. There really isn't a need to TVTropes this poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:54
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What the hell is it about Avatar and people wanting this super-dark series where the protagonists have to consider the morality of murdering evil babies or whatever. The original show had some dark elements but even at its darkest it was still incredibly kid-friendly and the dark subject matter it tackled was extremely optimistic and good-natured.
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Aug 5, 2014 14:56
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You know, it's entirely possible to read what hiddenriverninja and not assume that it would mean a super-dark version of the show. I'd take a moral quandary about the Dark Avatar over turning into a giant blue spirit and getting in a fist fight with it any day.
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Aug 5, 2014 15:01
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ImpAtom posted:What the hell is it about Avatar and people wanting this super-dark series where the protagonists have to consider the morality of murdering evil babies or whatever. Nerds, especially teenage nerds trying to be "edgy" and grown-up, think every piece of media would be much better if it catered to their particular taste and tone. Hence Brony sex fanfic, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, and baby-killing vacuum-benders
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Aug 5, 2014 15:02
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thexerox123 posted:You know, it's entirely possible to read what hiddenriverninja and not assume that it would mean a super-dark version of the show. I'd take a moral quandary about the Dark Avatar over turning into a giant blue spirit and getting in a fist fight with it any day. "That would present a whole host of moral problems for the good guys" can't really mean a lot else when you're talking about a reincarnation in a show that isn't taking place over the course of a few hundred years. If the Dark Avatar reincarnated he would be an infant for the entire duration of the show's run. You could use the solution of "raise the child as a non-shithead and see if that counteracts the Vaatu element" but that's not really a moral quandary.
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Aug 5, 2014 15:04
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ImpAtom posted:If the Dark Avatar reincarnated If, that's the point... why would they kill him if they knew he would just come back as a presumably evil baby somewhere unknown? Edit: Although, I guess he was spirit bended? Does that mean the Avatar would be weak against that as well? thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 15:08
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Well, if Korra's intended audience is A:TLAB's intended audience but grown a couple years, then it makes sense that it would try to move away from being too kid-friendly and try to tackle themes that interest teenagers more, along with being more "dark". The problem is not that it tackles darker or more complex themes, the problem is that it always tries to do it in terms of the shows world. Season 1 was not just about class inequality, it was about class inequality as dictated by whether you are able to punch fireballs. Season 2 was about... err... ecology? Hell if I know, all that talk about spirits made my head spin. A good example of how such a show could handle more mature themes is actually the A:TLAB comic. It picks up right after the end of A:TLAB and deals with the multicultural communities that emerged after the invasion of the Fire Nation on Earth Kingdom lands. It's trying to tackle issues that matter even in the real world, and while it brushes aside the really horrible things that happen in these situations or just replaces them with more kind's friendly analogues, it actually tries to explore the issue from all sides and gets every character engaged in his own way. I wish Korra was more like that than trying to make up problems that can only exist in magical kung-fu land.
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Aug 5, 2014 15:18
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DoctorWhat posted:Nerds, especially teenage nerds trying to be "edgy" and grown-up, think every piece of media would be much better if it catered to their particular taste and tone. Hence Brony sex fanfic, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, and baby-killing vacuum-benders I think every piece of media would be better if it catered to my tastes, yes. Why do you think that's weird?
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Aug 5, 2014 15:21
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thexerox123 posted:You know, it's entirely possible to read what hiddenriverninja and not assume that it would mean a super-dark version of the show. I'd take a moral quandary about the Dark Avatar over turning into a giant blue spirit and getting in a fist fight with it any day. I'd have preferred it if the finale had started as the Kaiju stuff, then Korra destroys his monster body with her blue spirit thingy and they have an Avatar-off, using all four elements and having a cool fight. Then she kills him, or at least beats and imprisons him or something, allowing for a Dark Avatar reincarnation to be a thing. It would be a pretty neat change to make to the world, even if it's more something to explore if they ever make another series set farther into the future.
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Aug 5, 2014 15:33
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If you desperately want a Dark Anti-avatar, here's how you do it without requiring baby-eating idiocy: make Vaatu a wandering possession spirit. He doesn't get reincarnated into innocents, he consciously chooses hosts based on their talents and drives. Then if that host is killed or sealed, he is briefly banished for a decade before choosing another adult host. It's still a little dumb, but it's not Warhammer dumb. EDIT: Because if there's one thing every tv show should have, it's a Herod-style massacre of infants.
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Aug 5, 2014 15:40
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I diImpAtom posted:"That would present a whole host of moral problems for the good guys" can't really mean a lot else when you're talking about a reincarnation in a show that isn't taking place over the course of a few hundred years. If the Dark Avatar reincarnated he would be an infant for the entire duration of the show's run. You could use the solution of "raise the child as a non-shithead and see if that counteracts the Vaatu element" but that's not really a moral quandary. Yeah, I wasn't meaning "hey should we kill this baby because they are born evil" but more "is it right to sequester this kid (or banish them to the time tree) because there is an evil presence inside him" There's a spectrum between doing nothing and babymurdering. Anyway the point is moot because we know the Avatar can be separated from the spirit because of magic waterbending.
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Aug 5, 2014 15:48
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DoctorWhat posted:Nerds, especially teenage nerds trying to be "edgy" and grown-up, think every piece of media would be much better if it catered to their particular taste and tone. Hence Brony sex fanfic, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, and baby-killing vacuum-benders I hardly think a Bayesian rationalist should be lumped in with bronies and a spergy goon.  Your point's taken though
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Aug 5, 2014 15:50
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Genocyber posted:I'd have preferred it if the finale had started as the Kaiju stuff, then Korra destroys his monster body with her blue spirit thingy and they have an Avatar-off, using all four elements and having a cool fight. Then she kills him, or at least beats and imprisons him or something, allowing for a Dark Avatar reincarnation to be a thing. It would be a pretty neat change to make to the world, even if it's more something to explore if they ever make another series set farther into the future. I thought they might go the route of imprisoning Vaatu.. within Korra. So she's restored balance by being the bearer of both spirits, not just one.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:06
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:I thought they might go the route of imprisoning Vaatu.. within Korra. So she's restored balance by being the bearer of both spirits, not just one. Well since Vaatu has to come from Raava after awhile anyways it'll probably just pop out of the avatar one day
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Aug 5, 2014 16:15
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SirKibbles posted:Well since Vaatu has to come from Raava after awhile anyways it'll probably just pop out of the avatar one day If you want to get technical, Korra probably already has an incredibly tiny amount of Vaatu in her as he regrows as a part of Raava. Honestly if they do another series after Korra I'd almost want it to be set when Vaatu is fully reformed and explore what that means for the Double Avatar.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:19
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Mymla posted:I think every piece of media would be better if it catered to my tastes, yes. Why do you think that's weird? Yes, that is weird. Why should everything cater to your tastes? That sounds incredibly selfish and you probably should reflect a little on why you have such a terrible attitude.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:32
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Potsticker posted:Yes, that is weird. Why should everything cater to your tastes? That sounds incredibly selfish and you probably should reflect a little on why you have such a terrible attitude. If it's catered to your tastes, obviously you would personally think it was better... that doesn't mean you think that everything should cater to your tastes. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 16:34
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The dark avatar might be interesting if it was dark like yin and yang and not dark like good and evil. Though I guess as it stands Unalaq had aspects of that what with his spiritual focus vs Korra's world focus. And yeah I know yin has treachery and sinister aspects associated with it, but that's different from the western version of evil that wants to literally destroy the world to throw open the gates of hell and escape imprisonment.
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Aug 5, 2014 16:48
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Potsticker posted:Yes, that is weird. Why should everything cater to your tastes? That sounds incredibly selfish and you probably should reflect a little on why you have such a terrible attitude. What thexerox said, basicly. It would be strange if everything did cater to my tastes, but it would also be pretty great!
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Aug 5, 2014 16:49
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Fried Chicken posted:The dark avatar might be interesting if it was dark like yin and yang and not dark like good and evil. Though I guess as it stands Unalaq had aspects of that what with his spiritual focus vs Korra's world focus. Yeah, like I said, I think an eventual Avatar that is basically both a Light and Dark Avatar could be interesting. It more or less has to happen, in-universe at least, at some point. What I think would be especially interesting is how it might affect personality. Are Avatars always ultimately good people because Wan was, and they're ultimately his reincarnation? Or is it Raava's influence? If it's the latter, what happens when Vaatu's influence is mixed in?
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Aug 5, 2014 17:23
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Eh, the avatars have had pretty different personalities (just looks at Aang and Korra), so I don't think them being different incarnations of the same person has anything to do with it. Any inherent goodness probably comes from Raava. Actually, it would be pretty hilarious if the Avatar starts literally having a cartoon angel and devil on each shoulder.
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Aug 5, 2014 17:59
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First Bass posted:I hardly think a Bayesian rationalist should be lumped in with bronies and a spergy goon. There's a PYF mockthread about LessWrong and trust me, he deserves all the mockery possible. Mymla posted:What thexerox said, basicly. It would be strange if everything did cater to my tastes, but it would also be pretty great! But your tastes would never develop - you'd be stuck in an ideological rut! On a very serious axis, you'd cease developing as a person.
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Aug 5, 2014 18:17
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Mymla posted:Eh, the avatars have had pretty different personalities (just looks at Aang and Korra), so I don't think them being different incarnations of the same person has anything to do with it. Any inherent goodness probably comes from Raava. Well, I wasn't talking about personality so much as being ultimately good people. Korra and Aang are very different people, but they're both ultimately working for the betterment of the world. They've got a shitload of power, and rather than abuse it they doggedly try and put it to good use. Wan was pretty similar in that regard, before Raava. But yeah, no, any inherent goodness does probably come from Raava's influence on their spirits.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:24
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Fried Chicken posted:The dark avatar might be interesting if it was dark like yin and yang and not dark like good and evil. Though I guess as it stands Unalaq had aspects of that what with his spiritual focus vs Korra's world focus. I would also find it interesting if there was a 'Dark Avatar' who embodied not exactly the opposite of what the Avatar embodies but was something like the other side of the same coin. That existed as an active force to better define the Avatar's role other than being the world's referee. Who also could bend all four elements. There are 'evil' virtues, Ambition, Determination, Resourcefulness, and a certain sort of Valour. Some works of fiction argue that Good cannot exist without Evil and they are defined by each other as much as they are different; so maybe there's good story telling potential there that doesn't devolve to "Evil bad" like with Unalaq.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:41
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Raenir Salazar posted:I would also find it interesting if there was a 'Dark Avatar' who embodied not exactly the opposite of what the Avatar embodies but was something like the other side of the same coin. That existed as an active force to better define the Avatar's role other than being the world's referee. Who also could bend all four elements. There are 'evil' virtues, Ambition, Determination, Resourcefulness, and a certain sort of Valour. Some works of fiction argue that Good cannot exist without Evil and they are defined by each other as much as they are different; so maybe there's good story telling potential there that doesn't devolve to "Evil bad" like with Unalaq. The problem with that is that we've already had Avatars that are valorous dicks (ie, Kyoshi) so there's not much ground you can cover in that respect.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:49
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How was Kyoshi a dick? We barely know anything about her.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:05
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Baron Bifford posted:How was Kyoshi a dick? We barely know anything about her. 
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Aug 5, 2014 20:08
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:If you want to get technical, Korra probably already has an incredibly tiny amount of Vaatu in her as he regrows as a part of Raava. Honestly if they do another series after Korra I'd almost want it to be set when Vaatu is fully reformed and explore what that means for the Double Avatar. Also, with the past-avatar-link-thing broken, was it suggested what that means for avatars going forward? Can the avatar still be reincarnated? Or was it just that the past memories/spirits of previous avatars was destroyed, so in theory the next avatar will at least have Korra to talk to? My memory of the end of the second season is pretty hazy.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:27
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Oxyclean posted:Also, with the past-avatar-link-thing broken, was it suggested what that means for avatars going forward? Can the avatar still be reincarnated? Or was it just that the past memories/spirits of previous avatars was destroyed, so in theory the next avatar will at least have Korra to talk to? My memory of the end of the second season is pretty hazy. I don't think it was outright said, but the reincarnation an past life communication things were both due to Raava. The past lives thing is gone, but the next Avatar should definitely have access to all of Korra's wisdom and experience.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:34
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:all of Korra's wisdom and experience. God help them
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Aug 5, 2014 20:39
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:The past lives thing is gone, but the next Avatar should definitely have access to all of Korra's wisdom and experience. 
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Aug 5, 2014 20:39
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To be fair, Aang also made a lot of dumb mistakes, it's just that his humble attitude made them forgivable.
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Aug 5, 2014 20:49
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Well, the entire point of ATLA during book 3, and every piece of media since, has been that the old Avatars are loving old and outdated for the world.
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Aug 5, 2014 21:08
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Mymla posted:I think every piece of media would be better if it catered to my tastes, yes. Why do you think that's weird? Because it shows a complete lack of understanding that maybe there can and should be media for people who are not you. It would also mean you never experience new things and get a chance to discover something new.
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Aug 5, 2014 22:16
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ImpAtom posted:Because it shows a complete lack of understanding that maybe there can and should be media for people who are not you. It would also mean you never experience new things and get a chance to discover something new. I think you're showing a complete lack of understanding at a play on words. As was cleared up earlier on this page.
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Aug 6, 2014 00:02
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Squidster posted:EDIT: Because if there's one thing every tv show should have, it's a Herod-style massacre of infants. If it's good enough for King Arthur, it's good enough for Korra.
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Aug 6, 2014 00:10
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Jagermonster posted:Mako lightning bending at Amon in an awkward position actually got past Amon's bloodbending defenses and messed him up. Amon even complimented his ability. There is absolutely no excuse for his lack of proficiency at it now. He should be able to royally mess up water-arms. I forgot how pants-on-head retarded Amon went for that scene. For a guy wanting to hide his waterbending, that's the worst way to save himself.
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