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WAFFLEHOUND posted:He's the leader of the Gelugpa sect of Tibetan Buddhism, not all Buddhists (and not all Tibetan Buddhists). And you're reading a bit too strongly into it. Take it this way; there used to be a belief in Tibet that nothing could travel above the height of one of the holy mountains, I believe Kailash, because the winds would simply destroy it. This might be an interesting problem for a monk to meditate on from an airplane. The Dalai Lama wasn't saying "welp I'm a secular humanist". I think it's also important to note that when the DL says that, he saying that in a very specific cultural context. Most scientists I know would say we have "conclusively determined" that divination isn't real, yet divination is an important aspect of several Tibetan Buddhist rituals. I think people tend to use that quotation from the Dalai Lama in a similar way to the way people use the quotation from Pope Francis, "Who am I to judge?" Yes, both are different ways of thinking about their respective problem and mark a change in attitude, but not nearly as drastically or ideologically as some people may want.
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Aug 4, 2014 08:51
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Pancakes by Mail posted:I do appreciate the responses, very thorough and informative.
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Aug 4, 2014 09:45
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Incarnate Dao posted:I think it's also important to note that when the DL says that, he saying that in a very specific cultural context. Most scientists I know would say we have "conclusively determined" that divination isn't real, yet divination is an important aspect of several Tibetan Buddhist rituals. It's worth noting that the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Buddhists are coming from a framework where these things are very real not only in a theoretical way but in a practical part of life way. The normal arguments around disproving negatives fall a little flat when the guy we're talking about is believed to be the 14th direct rebirth whose previous rebirth is known and there's pictures of, etc. I'm not saying that the presence of Tulkus is proof of rebirth, but that it (from the perspective of [at least Tibetan] Buddhists) shifts the burden of proof to those who would attempt to make the argument that science has "disproven" certain things for which their is, from a purely scientific perspective, zero evidence for.
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Aug 4, 2014 19:44
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The Tulku lineages are a social construct. p.s. http://www.palyul.org/docs/statement.html Throwdini fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 05:13
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I suppose they are, in the way gender is, and so on. What point are you trying to make with the link? I think it's pretty clear on its own but it doesn't support your statement particularly?
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Aug 6, 2014 12:05
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Is it possible to be enlightened and not know you're enlightened or is this contradictory? I've heard of 'accidental' spiritual awakenings, are these really possible?
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Aug 7, 2014 03:57
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Frykte posted:Is it possible to be enlightened and not know you're enlightened or is this contradictory? I've heard of 'accidental' spiritual awakenings, are these really possible? A Buddhist priest was asked a similar question at a Q&A I was attending. (They were asked if a Buddha could be a Buddha without knowing it.) He responded that part of being enlightened is having omniscience so he thought that an enlightened person would know they're in that state. His way of describing omniscience was interesting, as it sounded similar to process theology's understanding of omniscience.
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Aug 7, 2014 04:06
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Part of being a Buddha is perfectly knowing cause and effect, so there is something to that omniscience. As to knowing that one is a Buddha, the trick is that a Buddha is beyond conceptions of self. How can they know their self is enlightened? The truth is, nothing about Buddhahood can really be described through our tainted conceptual language. We can only sort of point vaguely towards it.
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Aug 7, 2014 08:36
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Frykte posted:Is it possible to be enlightened and not know you're enlightened or is this contradictory? I've heard of 'accidental' spiritual awakenings, are these really possible? quote:"Being disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion [his mind] is liberated. When it is liberated there comes the knowledge: 'It is liberated.' He understands: 'Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being.'" It seems very clear that when you become enlightened, you know it, and that there's no way to be enlightened without knowing it. Rhymenoceros fucked around with this message at 10:22 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 10:18
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Just to be clear, because I wrote that way early and doubt I was very eloquent, the point I was trying to make is that if you are thinking things like "I wonder if I am enlightened," you aren't.
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Aug 7, 2014 15:05
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What are everyone's opinions on subitism vs. gradual liberalization? Can enlightenment be attained through insight alone?
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Aug 8, 2014 05:45
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Frykte posted:What are everyone's opinions on subitism vs. gradual liberalization? Looking in the suttas: UD 5.5 posted:Just as the ocean has a gradual shelf, a gradual slope, a gradual inclination, with a sudden drop-off only after a long stretch; in the same way this Dhamma & Vinaya has a gradual training, a gradual performance, a gradual practice, with a penetration to gnosis only after a long stretch. Frykte posted:Can enlightenment be attained through insight alone? Basically, stilling the mind through meditation makes it powerful enough to get deep insights. When you spontaneously have a deep insight, your mind gets very still, and you easily achieve deep meditation. Rhymenoceros fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 10:02
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Frykte posted:What are everyone's opinions on subitism vs. gradual liberalization? Can enlightenment be attained through insight alone? It depends on the slice of time you're looking at. At some point the meditator is at Moment A where they're a run-of-the-mill person, followed by Moment(s) B where they have the "experience" of non-fabrication/nirvana, which in real-time could be less than a second although it's sometimes longer, followed by Moment C where the person is a stream-enterer. Leading up to Moment A there's usually a longer period where the person is developing the eightfold path, including the cultivation of right view, virtue, and concentration. According to the Theravada a meditator passes through various stages before reaching stream-entry. There are stories of people like Eckhart Tolle and Ramana Maharshi who hadn't engaged in prior meditation practice, and while lying down began contemplating death or not-self, respectively, entered states of mental stillness, and broke through to some stage of awakening, but that isn't typical. Popcornicus fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 17:29
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I'm uncertain where I stumbled into this fantastic Berzin Archive piece on the relationship between teachers and students, but it's really good and worth a read, drawing from the Jewel Ornament of Liberation, a fantastic text by Gampopa. The article discusses how different types and levels of students relate to different types and levels of teachers, and how to healthily seek out a guru and relate to them. While it naturally has a Vajrayana tone to it due to the level of emphasis Vajrayana puts on the guru relationship, it is most likely useful information for all levels and types of practitioners.
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Aug 20, 2014 16:20
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Paramemetic posted:I'm uncertain where I stumbled into this fantastic Berzin Archive piece on the relationship between teachers and students, but it's really good and worth a read, drawing from the Jewel Ornament of Liberation, a fantastic text by Gampopa. The article discusses how different types and levels of students relate to different types and levels of teachers, and how to healthily seek out a guru and relate to them. While it naturally has a Vajrayana tone to it due to the level of emphasis Vajrayana puts on the guru relationship, it is most likely useful information for all levels and types of practitioners. I liked this article and I think it is a good thing to read for people who are maybe hesitant about the idea of aligning themselves with a teacher, regardless of tradition. I feel like I have met at least a few people who are interested in Buddhism but also possess a strong anti-authoritarian streak that keeps them from becoming a good student, or at least settling down and accepting someone as a religious authority. I certainly started out that way. The relationship with a teacher can be deeply personal, and the relationship with their actual teachings can also be deeply personal. And I think those things can exist independent of each other. For example, I have a lot of respect for Thanissaro Bhikkhu and all of the effort he has put into teaching the Dhamma - free translations, free print books, study guides, retreats, etc. But when I ended up at one of his teachings in person I had kind of a negative experience that honestly soured me to him as an actual teacher. His material stands on its own, but I wouldn't want to stay at his monastery, I guess. quote:The Buddhist teachings differentiate between insights and realizations. An insight does not make a significant change in one's life, but may lead in that direction. A realization, on the other hand, whether it be partial or complete, actually produces a noticeable improvement that lasts. The distinction we are drawing here between Dharma instructors and spiritual mentors derives from this difference. Dharma instructors may have either insight or realization, whereas spiritual mentors need to have some level of realization. I think this might be less common in the West, or at least among the Theravada circles I've run in. We have monks who are highly revered, but not necessarily due to their "realizations" (I'm not sure if that is synonymous with attainments in this case). Rather, the simple presence of one having ordained and living the holy life is itself a respected institution, especially to the Thai community when they turn up at sessions. I could be over-simplifying things but even newly ordained monks seem to be given great amounts of respect and deference by the laypeople. I really recommend taking refuge and the precepts with an actual teacher though, even if you aren't 100% sold on the teachings. There really isn't any drawback, and it really has a way of kickstarting your practice. I think of the first time I did it in the presence of an ordained monk and consider it as having changed things pretty significantly.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:07
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I agree on the recommendation about Refuge. I also really agree with this article. I only just found it somewhere, I don't remember, but its description helps me realize I'm at least on the right path. When I very first started, I showed up and took Refuge with my teacher. I'd never heard a teaching by him or met any of his students or disciples, but I did this. For a few weeks or months I had the feeling that this particular lineage wasn't "right," nothing had "clicked," and that I followed Khenpo-la for his intellectual teachings but I did not see him as a Buddha. It took a lot of time for my view to develop to the point that I felt genuine devotion to him as more than an intellectual teacher but as something like a guru. One thing that I think is hugely important, at least in the Tibetan tradition, is the concept of planting seeds and those seeds fruiting. I think we expect a lot of times when someone says "do this practice and you'll get this result" that we'll see that result immediately, but this really isn't the case. Taking the Bodhisattva Vow, for example. When you very first aspire to this, you have aspiration bodhicitta, as soon as you say "I want to practice to benefit all sentient beings." But you don't have actual "action" bodhicitta until that aspiration fruits into action bodhicitta. And that's totally okay! I think a lot of us put a lot of pressure and effort into advancing, and that's really good, but I think we also get confused then and think "I need to be better because right now I am not good" and this is a problem. A better way to approach it is "right now I am practicing, in the future I will be practicing" and we should increase our practices according to our abilities and in line with our desire to help sentient beings. But anyways, back on point, my relationship with my teachers and gurus has developed over time, and I have several teachers who fill various roles for me. Khenpo gives me practices and tells me what I should be doing for my daily practices, but I don't think of him really as my root guru, but rather as my main teacher and spiritual master. He is one of my gurus but I think my root guru is even in an entirely different lineage, and that's okay! Speaking of, I need to ask Khenpo-la at some point about my practice, I am at work for a long time usually, often with not much to do. I've been doing Vajrasattva practices in the back of an ambulance, but I really want to be working on my Refuge/Prostration practice also. I can't do full prostrations there or even standing short form ones right now, I need to ask him if it is satisfactory to do what I can do. My understanding is it is always better to do a practice even in an inferior way than to go "oh I can't do that perfectly right now" and so never do it, but I need to ask him since he is the one who has given me the practices to do.
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Aug 21, 2014 03:50
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Paramemetic posted:
Absolutely. I think this can become particularly troublesome in terms of meditative attainments or metrics. We have a tendency to try and score ourselves, or at least I did when starting out. It still comes up from time to time: "I should be able to reach jhana by now. What am I doing wrong? I should change what I'm doing." quote:But anyways, back on point, my relationship with my teachers and gurus has developed over time, and I have several teachers who fill various roles for me. Khenpo gives me practices and tells me what I should be doing for my daily practices, but I don't think of him really as my root guru, but rather as my main teacher and spiritual master. He is one of my gurus but I think my root guru is even in an entirely different lineage, and that's okay! I think even small, incremental and inferior practice throughout the day is great. I used to try and do seated meditation at my desk during lunch, just for 15 minutes or so when I had a chance. I can still sometimes squeeze a few minutes in here and there. Sometimes I catch myself thinking "What's the point in watching the breath for 15 minutes?", but I really do think tiny drops in the bucket are better than nothing. I don't know if I could get away with a makeshift shrine and bowing without getting a lot of questions, but if I had my own office I'd probably work it out. As it is now, I can put headphones on and listen to a short Dhamma talk, or a guided meditation from Ajahn Jayasaro if there is noise I need to drown out. I should get back on board with this stuff more seriously now that my existential crisis has subsided for the time being. On a totally different note for those who are interested, I picked up a copy of Heartwood of the Bodhi Tree: The Buddha's Teachings on Voidness and it is pretty good so far. It is the only collection of Theravada teachings I have found that specifically focus on emptiness as understood in that tradition. It does a fair amount of referring to the Commentarial interpretation of emptiness so far, which isn't surprising, but it isn't annoyingly academic up to this point. I can't remember if I mentioned it before in the thread so I figured I'd mention it while it is laying in front of me.
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Aug 21, 2014 06:21
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A great way to practice in daily life is also just using right speech, being generous - generally trying to be a good person towards those you deal with on a daily basis. If you make an effort to be kind, gentle and generous towards people, you start feeling good about yourself, and when you feel good about yourself it's much easier to meditate because you can just sit there and you feel good, it makes the mind calm. My understanding so far is that the whole point of virtue is that it is essential to meditation. It seems to me that, how deep you go in meditation fundamentally depends on how much you develop the noble eightfold path, but remember that a huge part of the path is basically just how you treat yourself and other people. So, if you deal with people at work, maybe that's the time to practice the part of the noble eightfold path which is about how you should treat people.
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Aug 21, 2014 13:09
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I agree strongly about practicing in daily life. Holiness Drukpa Rinpoche teaches a lot about action, about our daily life being our main practice, and simply living mindfully being the main practice. If we're living mindfully and acknowledge every action as relative action, what else is there? I'm referring specifically to fixed practices though with numbers to accumulate and so on. While daily life is my main and best practice, there is a set path of practices towards Mahamudra in my tradition which I am doing my best to follow. That's specifically what I need to ask Khenpo about practicing. Practicing mindfulness, lovingkindness, and compassion in my daily actions is my main practice, my daily life is my main practice. I'm an EMT for a pediatric hospital, so I have a lot of opportunity to practice kindness towards others who are having a particularly bad day usually.
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Aug 21, 2014 13:16
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Paramemetic posted:I agree strongly about practicing in daily life. Holiness Drukpa Rinpoche teaches a lot about action, about our daily life being our main practice, and simply living mindfully being the main practice. If we're living mindfully and acknowledge every action as relative action, what else is there? 
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Aug 21, 2014 14:44
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So I just came back from a retreat that turned out to be Osho intensive. I didn't know about him or his methods beforehand, and expected something like silent meditation (haha). Has any one of you made experiences with stuff like Aom or rebirth, what are your thoughts? Personally I like the idea of incorporating more physically or emotionally extreme exercises into your meditation routine. I got the feeling that more facets of my personality and being got acknowledged that way, as opposed to only focussing on silent meditation. Anyway that's just the immediate impression I have now, I'm still figuring out what I experienced and what I took away.
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Aug 31, 2014 18:28
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Thats the Rajneeshi stuff, right?
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Aug 31, 2014 20:25
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Yep, that's it.
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Aug 31, 2014 20:27
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Where I'm from, the Rajneeshis are basically known for the biological terrorist attacks they launched in my state as well as their armed compound (imagine a bunch of dudes in red suits running around with submachine guns). They guy who ran the whole thing also had a fleet of Rolls Royces that he'd ride around in while the people in the group would do manual labor. Apparently he treated the whole thing as basically a giant harem. Not only were they considered a cult, but they actually kind of set the standard in America of what a 'hindu'-based cult of personality looks like. E: By the way, I don't mean to be a dick in saying all this, but be careful. They were an interesting group in that they managed to be profoundly hosed up, full of rampant abuse of power and embezzlement, and heavily connected to gun and drug trafficking as well, yet they recruited mostly well-educated people. I remember reading somewhere that 25% of the Rajneeshis were psychologists/psychiatrists/licensed therapists. They were one of the quintessential, "but shouldn't all of these bright people have seen through this sooner?" Though the usual answer to that is that people were hit with a bunch of emotionally intense stuff that basically leaves them too stunned to react and that that continued indefinitely while everything kept getting crazier and crazier. Out of curiosity, what was your experience and how did you run into them? Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 20:50
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The-Mole posted:Out of curiosity, what was your experience and how did you run into them? I've been reading up on them ever since I came back, there's a documentary on Youtube about their doings in Oregon, crazy stuff. Basically there's an ashram 40 minutes from here that does all kinds of workshops, eg yoga, tantra, and also osho. So it's not a rajneeshi place per se, just one of the trainers specializes in their teaching methods. I was told there would be a meditation workshop soon, and I kinda expected it to be like Vipassana, having never heard of them before. Well we arrived and met this girl that told us that this will be "active meditation". She talked to us about the Aom technique, and I briefly contemplated taking the next bus and ride back home. But first up was Kundalini at 6 pm, where we moved/shook our pelvis for 15 minutes, then 15 minutes of dancing, then silent meditation while sitting, then lying on the ground, both 15 min each. This was kinda cool, I liked the idea of releasing your energy and readying your mind for silence. Then we had dinner and a one hour break, followed by 2-3 hours of Aom. So, Aom. Afaik this type of meditation was developed by Osho to treat people suffering from addiction, or maybe it's primarily being used in that context. I think each of the steps was 15 minutes, but I can't say for sure. We started with dancing, Trance, also Osho songs with lines like "we can do it with the second wind, *clap*clap*, we can do it with the second wind, *clap*clap*, all the way to heaven!" It was pretty cheesy, and some of the regulars were really into it. The music got more intense, and ultimately culminated in a song by Rage against the machine, Killing in the name of. Then stop. The first step would be about hate, rage, and anger. We started circling the room, clenching our fists and making growling noises, contorting our faces in anger. Then we would pick a random person, and scream all the nasty poo poo we could think of at her/him. We were told to scream from our belly so we don't get a headache or a sore throat (we still got a sore throat). At first I was timid, but soon I was death staring strangers and repeatedly telling them to gently caress off. Then stop. Next stage. We started circling the room again, but this time it was about love. We picked random strangers, told them we love them, and gave them a hug. Long hugs. The trainer even showed us what a proper hug should look like, so no hover hands or leaning forward allowed. That was fun, especially in the middle of the desert, with half-naked, sweaty men. Next step, madness. We ran around channeling our inner madness, rolling on the floor, screaming, talking to the wall, shoving paper towels up our nose, whacking pillows over our heads, talking gibberish. Stop. next step. All the stops were really abrupt, it was like being thrown in ice water, then back to the hot shower, then back to ice. Now it was about sadness. We were told to cry. If you don't feel sad, "fake it til you make it". People started wailing, burying their faces in their hands, lying on the floor, sobbing. Stop. Now it was about hapiness. We circled the room, pointing at each other, laughing. Throwing back our heads, opening our mouths, holding our belly, hahaha. Stop. Next up was dancing again, maybe? Anyway, at some point there was the "dance of the lovers", where men had to close their eyes, dance, and wait til a woman joins them. At this point my friend (a gay woman) left, because she "couldn't take all this hetero-normative bullshit". The trainer emphasized that, although this dance was supposed to be about sexuality, bumping and grinding should always be consensual. I began dancing with a woman, but she wasn't really interested in sexy stuff, so we just danced. (pffffrt) After that we made a circle, always man next to a woman, the trainer placed a candle in the middle of the room, and we started chanting "Aum" repeatedly. Then we picked random strangers again, told them "Namaste", and hugged. Then some more dancing, culminating again in the Rage against the machine song. We finish by lying on the floor and silently meditating for 15 minutes. Afterwards we sat together in the lounge with tea and coffee, it was midnight or maybe a bit later. I might have forgotten some steps, but hopefully I could convey some of the intensity. It's really late now, and I typed all of this on a tablet, yikes. Osho would be proud. Edit: there were other sessions as well, but it's late and aom was definitely the most unique. midnightclimax fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 22:38
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That sounds wildly unlike any other form of Buddhist meditation I've heard of. For whatever that's worth.
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Aug 31, 2014 23:02
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Just based on my casual interest in Buddhism most of that sounds like the opposite of the point of getting into Buddhism. Especially if they literally went with 'fake it 'till you make it' for sadness or any of the other emotions aside from maybe happiness I guess. That sounds like a tacit admission that if you don't have much inner anger/sadness/whatever to channel, then you're supposed to cultivate those feelings inside of you until you can start channeling them when part of the point of getting into Buddhism in the first place is to cultivate those negative feelings less and positive feelings more.
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Aug 31, 2014 23:10
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Did the trainers show up in a painted VW minibus?
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Aug 31, 2014 23:25
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Osho is not really Buddhist. Those techniques can be useful I imagine, but it would take work to put them in a Buddhist context. Also, Kundalini takes a lot of time to work up towards developing. That's really dangerous to do those meditations in just a random group. There is even a syndrome, "Kundalini Syndrome," recognized as a result of premature cultivation.
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Sep 1, 2014 00:24
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Paramemetic posted:Osho is not really Buddhist. Those techniques can be useful I imagine, but it would take work to put them in a Buddhist context. Yeah I know it's not buddhist, but supposedly Osho was heavily influenced by zen, and the meditation thread is gone/dead. Also I thought some of the people here might be interested in hearing about it. The kundalini syndrome sounds interesting, that some of those techniques are dangerous/ can be abused doesn't surprise me. Re: sadness. I did not like the idea of delving into images and thoughts that trigger sadness, just so I can cry for 15 minutes. It seemed disrespectful to the things that make me sad. I did cry at some point, the next day, but it was probably due to physical exhaustion/all the dancing. Crack posted:Did the trainers show up in a painted VW minibus? Well they made sure not to show up in a Rolls Royce. (heh) midnightclimax fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 05:24
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midnightclimax posted:Next step, madness. We ran around channeling our inner madness, rolling on the floor, screaming, talking to the wall, shoving paper towels up our nose, whacking pillows over our heads, talking gibberish. I do this one and it's an extremely effective meditation in my opinion.
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Sep 1, 2014 06:09
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Frykte posted:I do this one and it's an extremely effective meditation in my opinion.
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Sep 1, 2014 07:31
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It's effective for self-inquiry meditation I think because there is a a known and unknown parts of one's own mind. Pretending to be crazy and really being mindful of your actions while acting spontaneously allows one to see into their unconsciousness. Say a bunch of gibberish and hit yourself on the head and ask "Who is doing this to myself? Who is the self that keeps hitting itself?"
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Sep 3, 2014 06:58
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Frykte posted:It's effective for self-inquiry meditation I think because there is a a known and unknown parts of one's own mind. Pretending to be crazy and really being mindful of your actions while acting spontaneously allows one to see into their unconsciousness. I may be off base here, but the idea behind insight meditation isnt really to access another part of the mind as much as to calm the chatter to a point where you can see the true nature of the arising and passing away of all things. I'm not sure how hitting yourself and speaking gibberish helps with that. I could be missing something.
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Sep 3, 2014 07:19
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He didn't say it was insight meditation. There are as many ways to meditate as there are to speak or think or feel. The real question is, whether what he is describing is Buddhist or not. Sounds like he gets something out of it either way.
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Sep 3, 2014 08:00
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I guess my point, which I didn't make very well, is that Buddhist meditation generally has the goal of insight, or concentration/samata. What is being described doesn't sound like either.
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Sep 3, 2014 08:56
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Frykte posted:It's effective for self-inquiry meditation I think because there is a a known and unknown parts of one's own mind. Pretending to be crazy and really being mindful of your actions while acting spontaneously allows one to see into their unconsciousness. Say a bunch of gibberish and hit yourself on the head and ask "Who is doing this to myself? Who is the self that keeps hitting itself?" The Buddha explains that "Whatever a monk keeps pursuing with his thinking & pondering, that becomes the inclination of his awareness." (MN 19). I think it makes sense that in general, whatever thoughts and impulses we engage in often, those thoughts and impulses grow in our minds. I think that if one often channels madness or other negative emotions (like anger), one risks having those impulses grow stronger in the mind, and I don't think that's a good thing. In Buddhism, I think that you're supposed to channel your inner kindness, compassion and ability to make peace with things, and that you're supposed to (as best you can) avoid negative mind states. Edit: By 'avoid' I really mean 'employ skillful strategies whose result is the lessening of' Edit2: And like, madness is kind of the opposite of seeing things clearly with wisdom, which is kind of the main thing you're supposed to do in Buddhism, so be careful. Rhymenoceros fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 11:25
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Quick question for Vajrayana goons: I recently moved and decided to try out a more traditional path. I've been practicing with the Shambhala lineage for about 1.5 years now and I absolutely love it, but I also find myself more attracted to traditional texts and practices. I went by this Kagyu center last night and I really enjoyed the practices. They mentioned they were doing a Maitreya empowerment later in the month, and it didn't require a ngondro to be completed. Curiously, has anyone ever received a Maitreya empowerment before? This would be my first real Tantric practice. I'm not sure what to expect, or if it's something that I would get a lot out of, but I'm definitely really curious and I would love to really start diving in to the more traditional Tibetan practices, so there is a lot of curiosity there. Anyone have any advice/ideas/comments/etc.?
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Sep 4, 2014 14:57
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The Dark Wind posted:Quick question for Vajrayana goons: What flavor of Kagyu? So I would do this if you have a chance. The thing is that the Tantric empowerment plants a seed but doesn't necessarily obligate you to the tantric practice unless it's received completely and perfectly, which doesn't always happen automatically at an empowerment. So there may not be a downside directly to taking an empowerment, but there is an upside as it creates a karmic link to the practice and the lineage and the deity and so on. I've never done Maitreya specifically, but what you can typically predict from Kagyu will be some brief teaching on it, then the text being read to you directly in Tibetan (the "oral transmission") by the lama/vajra master, then usually going through the practice once or twice in Tibetan or English. The practice will usually be of a format where one takes refuge, then does a self-empowerment and purification, then invites the deities, does some form of practice, and dissolves the practice, comprising "generation" and "completion" stages of the practice. It won't be dissimilar to general deity yogas that you have probably already encountered in that regard. Rarely, "full initiations" are given which are a bit more involved, but that's the gist. One thing to watch out for is accumulating lots and lots of empowerments properly. It's good to practice a ritual you've received an empowerment for regularly, but it's not necessarily mandated unless you make a Samaya with a guru and receive the empowerment completely and properly, which is more about having yourself as a vessel prepared and less about the ritual itself. This is where the Ngondro and so on becomes important. A seed planted in arid soil might not ripen or grow as completely as one planted in fertile soil, so Ngondro and other purification and preparation practices are meant to make your soil fertile so to speak. Receiving the empowerment when you're not ready to fully receive it just means that it is on hold until such time as you're good to go, so this is why there's no problem receiving it. It also does not create a vow to practice the ritual unless you make a specific mental effort to do so, so there's no problem attending the empowerment. So basically, you should do it! If you're showing up to a center for the first time and you're invited to do the empowerment, that usually means there's some karma there. If you have specific questions, let me know.
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Sep 4, 2014 15:09
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Paramemetic posted:What flavor of Kagyu? It's with Lama Norlha Rinpoche, which I believe is Karma Kagyu? Not 100% sure actually. But thank you for all this information, that was actually super informative and useful. Does one get the text, or anything to help you follow along with the practice when you do it on your own? Also, I did the Chenrezi sadhana for the first time yesterday and it was super confusing, as I wasn't sure which part to visualize what doing what. Is there a guide or anything to help me get a better grasp on it before I try it again online somewhere? Thanks!
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Sep 4, 2014 20:08
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