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##Vote B Also, some one should design a new icon for Bogomilism, so we don't have to stare at the Reformed Cross all game. IRL Bogomilists didn't use crosses or even have churches, preferring open air worship. Perhaps simplified Serpent eating it's own tail in the vein of Gnostic tradition? Fox Ironic fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 18:49
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##Vote B for Bogomilism.
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Aug 7, 2014 19:41
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Fox Ironic posted:##Vote B I could pretty easily whip something up, I just have no idea how to edit .dds files. Why can't everything just be a nice .tga like flags? 
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Aug 7, 2014 21:57
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Rincewind posted:I could pretty easily whip something up, I just have no idea how to edit .dds files. Why can't everything just be a nice .tga like flags? Check Skype when you get a chance.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:01
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Hmm, I've actually been messing about with Bogomilism and the zeal mechanic is rather cool. Plus it makes converting provinces much easier (I'm looking at your Catholic Rome. >.<) At the same time I'm almost looking forward to seeing where the game goes without a central church, but with a decentralised mass of peasant worshippers instead. Thus I'll be changing my vote to: ##Vote B.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:06
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BwenGun posted:Hmm, I've actually been messing about with Bogomilism and the zeal mechanic is rather cool. Plus it makes converting provinces much easier (I'm looking at your Catholic Rome. >.<) At the same time I'm almost looking forward to seeing where the game goes without a central church, but with a decentralised mass of peasant worshippers instead. Unless Rince does a bunch of modding to add in events for whatever, probably not that differently?
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Aug 7, 2014 22:10
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In addition to modded things, it will also affect all that stuff I write in between the screenshots (and also the overall direction of what I'm doing, how Rome evolves over this era, etc.).
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Aug 7, 2014 22:11
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Rincewind posted:In addition to modded things, it will also affect all that stuff I write in between the screenshots (and also the overall direction of what I'm doing, how Rome evolves over this era, etc.). As long as the narrative focuses on courtly intrigue it's a net loss in my opinion. A church hierarchy running alongside the secular imperial one adds another dimension to that writing, and Bogomilism would deny that.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:18
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I think taking the church out of the hands of the throne makes for a more interesting narrative, as the dynasty already has so much power and so many levers to manipulate the state with. Also Patriarch Authority is the least interesting religion mechanic in the whole game.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:21
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Since there is apparently no way to return to our proper traditions, I will cast my vote in favour of the established order instead of the unknown. ##Vote A
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Aug 7, 2014 22:22
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GSD posted:I think taking the church out of the hands of the throne makes for a more interesting narrative, as the dynasty already has so much power and so many levers to manipulate the state with. It's not like any of these recent monarchs has been in a position of overwhelming power or particular success. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 22:22
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sniper4625 posted:It's not like any of these recent monarchs has been in a position of overwhelming power or particular success... We had multiple defensive wars going on at once and all that traded hands were a few insignificant piles of gold. Truly, the empire has fallen.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:26
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YF-23 posted:As long as the narrative focuses on courtly intrigue it's a net loss in my opinion. A church hierarchy running alongside the secular imperial one adds another dimension to that writing, and Bogomilism would deny that. It might result in a bunch of crazy Rasputin-type mystics gaining influence at court though.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:35
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GunnerJ posted:It might result in a bunch of crazy Rasputin-type mystics gaining influence at court though. Have you looked at the Senate lately? Been there, done that.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:36
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GunnerJ posted:It might result in a bunch of crazy Rasputin-type mystics gaining influence at court though. Last I checked Rasputin gained influence in a court of a decidedly Orthodox Empire. 
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Aug 7, 2014 22:37
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GunnerJ posted:It might result in a bunch of crazy Rasputin-type mystics gaining influence at court though. Is this supposed to be a negative thing? Because Ridiculous Roman Rasputin is not a negative thing (narratively speaking).
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Aug 7, 2014 22:39
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GunnerJ posted:It might result in a bunch of crazy Rasputin-type mystics gaining influence at court though. It's more likely that we'll have a bunch of stern-faced Puritan types in positions of power in the army/bureaucracy decrying the lack of morale fibre displayed by the rest of the Empire/Senate/Empress.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:39
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AJ_Impy posted:Have you looked at the Senate lately? Been there, done that. Hell, we have people advocating for the return of the Hellenic Pantheon! Not like we're hurting for people of...alternative religious views.
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Aug 7, 2014 22:40
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I hope we wind up as a Revolutionary Republic just so we can guillotine all the religious senators...and all the non religious senators.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:02
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AJ_Impy posted:Have you looked at the Senate lately? Been there, done that. I generally skim the Senatorial banter, sorry. YF-23 posted:Last I checked Rasputin gained influence in a court of a decidedly Orthodox Empire. Mystics, plural! Only one thing better than one Rasputin...  StrifeHira posted:Is this supposed to be a negative thing? By no means whatsoever.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:22
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Ghetto Prince posted:I hope we wind up as a Revolutionary Republic just so we can guillotine all Same.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:24
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You just know that update will start: "Hello, and welcome to Revolutions, episode 3.6, The Second Roman Republic. Last time, we discussed how the Discordians supplanted the Monterosites in the National Convention. Today, we'll examine the last days of Alexios III and his final doomed plot to save his crown and the head it rested on..."
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Aug 7, 2014 23:27
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BwenGun posted:It's more likely that we'll have a bunch of stern-faced Puritan types in positions of power in the army/bureaucracy decrying the lack of morale fibre displayed by the rest of the Empire/Senate/Empress. Bogomilism is taking the place of Reformed, but doesn't seem to have much in common with it besides skepticism of hierarchy. It is instead very eclectic in beliefs and accepting of differences on points of doctrine/mysteries of the faith. The people most likely to assassinate Roman Rasputin are all the other rival mystics with other weird beliefs. And, uh, I know I just said I skimmed a lot of the Senate RP, but I absorb enough to know that "Puritan types in positions of power in the army/bureaucracy decrying the lack of morale fibre displayed by the rest of the Empire/Senate/Empress" is just as much of a "been there, done that."
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Aug 7, 2014 23:31
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As interesting as all of this religion stuff is, can we see the culture map to discover how many Germans and Catalonians France has genocided? Everything just seems hopeless, at this point. Doomed to have ugly borders and New Carolingia breathing down our necks til the very end of ByzLP. /melodrama
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Aug 8, 2014 01:05
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DentedLamp posted:As interesting as all of this religion stuff is, can we see the culture map to discover how many Germans and Catalonians France has genocided? I'm sure that Rincewind will find a way to prevent the entirety of EU4 from being a boring slog. Heck, that's what this whole religious thing-a-mabob is: a way to shake things up and make the game more interesting for him to play and the LP more interesting to watch.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:20
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While the Kormilas family is all for modernizing Rome, we cannot truly turn our backs on the one True Faith. ##Vote A
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Aug 8, 2014 05:16
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I put forth that the Empress should execute the Patriarch, the Senate, the Doukes, and anyone else that dares question her, and then convert to whatever she feels like. Perhaps Sikhism? I hope Sikhism is better at spreading in this mod, so that it can be a pseudo-reformation for the Indian Empire. In vanilla, usually only 2, maybe 3 or so provinces convert to Sikhism....and they are usually provinces in the Levant .
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Aug 8, 2014 05:20
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sniper4625 posted:Hell, we have people advocating for the return of the Hellenic Pantheon! Not like we're hurting for people of...alternative religious views. We even have...ugh...papists.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:39
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Clearly we need the Ecumenism so no one will care about heretics or whatever.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:45
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theblastizard posted:We even have...ugh...papists. Part of me prefers the Hellenists to the Papists. They may be heathens, but they never stole the original Eternal City from us!  (Obviously Constantinople is the new Eternal City.)
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Aug 8, 2014 05:48
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I'm a horrible at creating images, as well as a useless mostly lurker in the thread, but building off my last post, I have a few ideas for alternate icons for the "Orthodox Reformation" religions. Gallicanism, with it's French roots, I feel should use some sort of modified Fleur-de-Lis Cross for its symbol, especially as a counterpoint to the Chi-Rho and/or Orthodox Cross with their distinctly Greek flavor. As for Bogomilism, as I said before, IRL Bogomilists didn't use crosses. I think an Ouroboros (a serpent eating it's own tail), with both it's Greek and Gnostic associations, would be an excellent an excellent symbol. Another suggestion could be, if we choose to adopt Bogomilism, that Bogomolism be narratively referred to as "Roman Gnosticism." Given the Nationalist bent of the Empire at present moment, anything that gives Rome religious credibility would be a boon.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:55
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Fox Ironic posted:Another suggestion could be, if we choose to adopt Bogomilism, that Bogomolism be narratively referred to as "Roman Gnosticism." Given the Nationalist bent of the Empire at present moment, anything that gives Rome religious credibility would be a boon. I like this.
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Aug 8, 2014 06:00
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sniper4625 posted:Part of me prefers the Hellenists to the Papists. They may be heathens, but they never stole the original Eternal City from us! The Pagans at least celebrate Roman traditions and virtues. They may look a little too far into our past, but they still are at least Roman none the less. The Papists are just squatting on Rome and refusing to admit it is Roman.
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Aug 8, 2014 06:00
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Changing from ##Vote C to ##Vote A, Rome must preserve its institutions to be strong. Rome strong.
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Aug 8, 2014 10:08
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Fox Ironic posted:I'm a horrible at creating images, as well as a useless mostly lurker in the thread, but building off my last post, I have a few ideas for alternate icons for the "Orthodox Reformation" religions. They way I see things Gallicanism is more of a widespread Protestant/Anglican mix-up. The Head of the State and the Head of the Church have close ties (as is the case with the French Patriarch living in Paris, I assume?) and thus we get an Orthodox rite which focuses on France rather than Rome, as do I think that the other Gallican countries have their own Patriarch at home. This means that just like Protestantism in Vanilla is more a collection of all Protestant beliefs Gallicanism here is a collection based on all Nationalist-Orthodox beliefs. So I think the Protestant Cross fits rather OK nonetheless. At the same time I see Neo-Bogomilism as more of a People's Faith than anything else. They follow similar adherences as the Bogomilists of old but have more of a "For-the-People/Against-the-Establishment" feel to it. The oppressed peasants gather around the idea that the church is responsible, what with them getting more and more rights back instead of the age-old tradition of keeping it as a tool of the state. Another idea here is having a Gnostic Cross.
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Aug 8, 2014 11:34
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## Vote B. It'd be interesting to see where the narrative'll go with an anti-authoritarian state religion. That seems like a contradiction in terms that'll be fun to reconcile. Possibly fun in the Dwarf Fortress sense, but then again perhaps not.
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Aug 8, 2014 12:04
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## Vote A Whats the worse that could happen?
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Aug 8, 2014 13:16
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## Vote C 
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Aug 8, 2014 13:46
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 Rome must be strong, yes, but it is not. Our leaders are incompetent. Our enemies are invincible and innumerable. Our people hate the very idea of Rome and try to tear it apart every week or so. Orthodoxy has collapsed into corruption and decadence. Christendom is broken once more, and without drastic action Rome will suffer the same fate. ##Vote B, and may God let us be strong again.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:32
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Flesnolk posted:
And when our armies collapse because we no longer have the Orthodox Church propping them up? When nations from France to Da Qin descend like vultures onto a now vulnerable Empire? When we spend the next 50 years fighting our own people after declaring them to be heretics? No-one claims that Orthodoxy is not plagued by corruption and decadence. The answer is simple though: reform. A grand Ecumenical Council to address and reform the worst abuses of the faith. That is the path to reforged strength, not embracing some pagan dualism. Edit: I just looked at the religious effects once again. Bogoogogomilism lowers our heretic tolerance even further, and the bonus to missionary tolerance will only last 10 years. Will we be able to force heresy upon the Empire entirely in that time? I highly doubt it. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 20:45
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