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SgtSteel91 posted:The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that I just didn't like the entire concept of ME3, not just the ending. I wasn't expecting the game to be so bleak. I was fine with the grim tones. I like happy endings and I like ones where you scrape by. It just matters how it's presented. Even ones where you lose if you can work that into things well and transfer to a new character doing other things. Of course, bleak for bleak's sake is kinda dumb. Running through a game where you are hero mcMasteroftheGalaxy and after you beat the big boss the ending just says 'nope, nothing you did counted, the story is over and it was a waste' seems like a kid's way of writing. It's tonally inconsistent and mashed together.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:47
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Drifter posted:Of course, bleak for bleak's sake is kinda dumb. Running through a game where you are hero mcMasteroftheGalaxy and after you beat the big boss the ending just says 'nope, nothing you did counted, the story is over and it was a waste' seems like a kid's way of writing. It's tonally inconsistent and mashed together. This is what I meant by the tonal shift, not that it was dark in and of itself. It is definitely as you described, like some teenager thinking that writing it this way makes his story 'serious' and makes his writing look 'smart'. Dapper Dan fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 01:55
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"Nothing you did counted" isn't a very good read of it either tbh
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Aug 8, 2014 01:57
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SgtSteel91 posted:The more I think about it, the more I become convinced that I just didn't like the entire concept of ME3, not just the ending. I wasn't expecting the game to be so bleak. Maybe this is why I like ME3 so much, including the ending (EC only). I had been prepared for dark since Saren shot himself. Then ME2 just breaking more things with Shep's death and the Virmire survivor breakup. Starting 3 with the widespread chaos on Earth was a good start. Would I have liked a possible super fun fix everything ending? Probably. But the ending is just Coda to your actual fight. I appreciated there was a choice that was that allowed me to reflect the way I had played the game. I spent a long time seriously considering both Synthesis and Destroy because I wanted the action to be in line with how I had played Shep through three games. It wasn't the hardest decision in the series, but I don't think it should. The Walking Dead presents an even more linear setup where nothing you do matters for the *plot*, it matters for your experience of the game. Chexoid posted:Welcome new executive producer, David Gaider. Jennifer Hepler.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:32
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I didn't want a 'sunshine and rainbows' happy ending for ME3, I wanted a bittersweet 'we lost a lot of people but we won and we can rebuild'. By and large, we got that with the EC. It just was the fact they tried to take a big risk with the ending, but didn't have the resources, writing skills, or time to pull it off. So we got a clusterfuck.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:42
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Sky Shadowing posted:I didn't want a 'sunshine and rainbows' happy ending for ME3, I wanted a bittersweet 'we lost a lot of people but we won and we can rebuild'. By and large, we got that with the EC. It just was the fact they tried to take a big risk with the ending, but didn't have the resources, writing skills, or time to pull it off. So we got a clusterfuck. I think the people of Israel and Palestine could learn a lot from your even-keeled attitude.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:44
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Palestine vs Israel is the synthetics vs organics of our generation.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:47
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Dan Didio posted:I think the people of Israel and Palestine could learn a lot from your even-keeled attitude. I honestly have no idea if this is genuine or sarcastic, so I have to assume sarcastic: I don't think a fictional war should be held up to the same standards of real wars, obviously all real wars are bad. If genuine sorry, I had a long day and can't discover deeper meaning.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:57
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Fag Boy Jim posted:"Nothing you did counted" isn't a very good read of it either tbh What's your take of it?
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Aug 8, 2014 02:57
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Sky Shadowing posted:I honestly have no idea if this is genuine or sarcastic, so I have to assume sarcastic: I don't think a fictional war should be held up to the same standards of real wars, obviously all real wars are bad. It was a compliment.
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Aug 8, 2014 02:57
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Sky Shadowing posted:I didn't want a 'sunshine and rainbows' happy ending for ME3, I wanted a bittersweet 'we lost a lot of people but we won and we can rebuild'. By and large, we got that with the EC. It just was the fact they tried to take a big risk with the ending, but didn't have the resources, writing skills, or time to pull it off. So we got a clusterfuck. Well, I thank everyone for beta testing the clusterfuck because I quite enjoyed the game I got. It included a giant party and breakfast with my man right in the middle. 
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Aug 8, 2014 02:59
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You know as bad as ME3's ending was, I still say Assassin's Creed 3 had a worse ending.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:07
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SgtSteel91 posted:What's your take of it? You blew up (or otherwise neutralized) the Reapers? Which was kind of the thing that was the end goal of the series from about the middle of the first game? I mean, bad poo poo happens along the way, but that's par for the course in ME3.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:15
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like, seriously, all the fantasy endings where things return to the status quo are a much better fit for "nothing you did counted". why the hell bother with a massive three-game war if things should just go back to the way they were in the beginning. c'mon son.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:16
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Plom Bar posted:You know as bad as ME3's ending was, I still say Assassin's Creed 3 had a worse ending. I'm at least with you there. ME3 had the decency to have an ending.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:23
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Drifter posted:Do we know he got kicked out? Or is this just general leaving the company slang? A page back but yeah, I should've put some  in kicked out. I think he simply left (he's been in the studio for 16 years, after all), and was supposedly heading the new project they're going to unveil at Gamescom - Shadow Realms, I think it's called -, so it highly unlikely that it was a corporate mandate.
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Aug 8, 2014 04:02
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Dapper Dan posted:This is what I meant by the tonal shift, not that it was dark in and of itself. It is definitely as you described, like some teenager thinking that writing it this way makes his story 'serious' and makes his writing look 'smart'. That's why I chuckle to myself whenever I see somebody claiming that people just didn't understand ME3's ending or other things like it because it was just "too deep" or "too sad" for them. It's like defending somebody giving you a half-eaten birthday cake for being symbolic of your mortality. Just smug condescension from somebody completely snowed by vague nonsense and sappy music instead of critical analysis.
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Aug 8, 2014 04:03
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Geostomp posted:That's why I chuckle to myself whenever I see somebody claiming that people just didn't understand ME3's ending or other things like it because it was just "too deep" or "too sad" for them. It's like defending somebody giving you a half-eaten birthday cake for being symbolic of your mortality. Just smug condescension from somebody completely snowed by vague nonsense and sappy music instead of critical analysis. Though it's also pretty telling how a massive chunk of the irate, 'we will hold the line forever; bring the cupcakes!' crowd shut up when it was made less sad.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:05
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Dan Didio posted:It was a compliment. Thank you, then, after a long day of work where I got a bunch of projects dumped on me, I didn't have the cognitive sense to realize that it was a compliment.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:10
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You're welcome.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:15
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Plom Bar posted:You know as bad as ME3's ending was, I still say Assassin's Creed 3 had a worse ending. it was pretty limp-dicked, but not a terrible series ending let-down, comparatively
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Aug 8, 2014 05:21
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Good luck to Casey Hudson in his future endeavors. Waltzing Along posted:The thing about the EC that isn't said enough is it is a piece of poo poo. It's actually insulting that Bioware thought it would be enough. Sure it sort of kinda fixed a couple things sorta. But rather than doing a Mea Culpa and actually fixing the ending, they just added more stupid crap on top of a stupid ending. They had a couple of months and it was coming out for free, they could hardly rewrite the entire last two hours of the game. Polishing and expanding on what's there is really the best that could ever have been expected. The extended cut isn't perfect but I like it well enough and think they deserved props for doing it at all.
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Aug 8, 2014 06:04
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Plom Bar posted:You know as bad as ME3's ending was, I still say Assassin's Creed 3 had a worse ending. Which one had you fist fight the pope? That was a great ending.
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Aug 8, 2014 10:59
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2. The fistfight with the fat old dude is still the hardest fight in the game, huh.
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Aug 8, 2014 11:04
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You know, I didn't really like the ending that much, but I never really let it bother me. I have never understood hating a whole story for a disappointing last page.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 13:27
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remusclaw posted:You know, I didn't really like the ending that much, but I never really let it bother me. I have never understood hating a whole story for a disappointing last page. eh, it's the result of anticipating a huge dopamine high that never ends up happening. nerds will get a bit chirpy in that case.
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Aug 8, 2014 13:48
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remusclaw posted:You know, I didn't really like the ending that much, but I never really let it bother me. I have never understood hating a whole story for a disappointing last page. Because even if you can just ignore the ending, even if you can do that while also being really invested in the story/characters, it's just...disappointing. The series has a lot of build up and you don't even get a nice final boss fight or something to give you a rush, it just whimpers out.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:03
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remusclaw posted:You know, I didn't really like the ending that much, but I never really let it bother me. I have never understood hating a whole story for a disappointing last page. Didn't ruin the series for me, but it really kinda felt like they abandoned it with that low effort ending and strange plotty business throughout. It just becomes another 'man, what a shame' type of thing.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:03
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Aristobulus posted:Because even if you can just ignore the ending, even if you can do that while also being really invested in the story/characters, it's just...disappointing. The series has a lot of build up and you don't even get a nice final boss fight or something to give you a rush, it just whimpers out. The lack of a final boss fight is one of the better things about the game. Especially considering how bad previous final bosses and set piece fights were.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:19
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sassassin posted:The lack of a final boss fight is one of the better things about the game. Pretty much. It makes sense to have the ultimate conclusion of the trilogy play out with the player primarily using the gameplay mechanic that defined the series, and it's easily one of the few right decisions Bioware made when coming up with the ending.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:44
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CPFortest posted:Pretty much.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:54
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At some point during development one of the ideas for the final boss was a reaperized Illusive Man.. I'm glad that got scrapped.
Raygereio fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Aug 8, 2014 |
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Aug 8, 2014 14:56
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2house2fly posted:Do you mean third person shooting or the dialogue wheel, because neither of those got used. I was referring to the specific sequence where you use the dialogue wheel to respond to Illusive Man's final rant and your final dialogue choices determining how exactly Anderson and Illusive Man die. The Illusive Man confrontation sequence is ME3's final boss fight.
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Aug 8, 2014 15:02
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CPFortest posted:I was referring to the specific sequence where you use the dialogue wheel to respond to Illusive Man's final rant and your final dialogue choices determining how exactly Anderson and Illusive Man die. Not giving in to the frustration of all the stupid bullshit they throw at you in the last five minutes and shooting the star child is ME3's final boss fight.
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Aug 8, 2014 15:05
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Lemming posted:Not giving in to the frustration of all the stupid bullshit they throw at you in the last five minutes and shooting the star child is ME3's final boss fight. Nah, everything with the Catalyst and afterwards is denouement poo poo, a bastardized version of the main character meeting God (after the conflict is resolved) scene. Your options regarding the Catalyst are limited because the climax has already happened, Shepard and Illusive Man's battle for control of the Crucible has been resolved, and there's nothing further you can do in the story except learn the final secrets of the Reapers, and then activate the Crucible with the three possible variations. But, my being able to explain why Bioware wrote the scene as they did doesn't make the actual scene and everything that resulted any less stupid, just that there's a specific narrative structural reason for the Catalyst scene playing out the way it did.
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Aug 8, 2014 15:32
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Wasn't the Illusive man originally supposed to turn into a reaper monster and used as a bossfight? As bad as the ME3 ending was, it could've been a lot worse.
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Aug 8, 2014 15:58
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Mymla posted:Wasn't the Illusive man originally supposed to turn into a reaper monster and used as a bossfight? As bad as the ME3 ending was, it could've been a lot worse.
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Aug 8, 2014 16:03
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remusclaw posted:You know, I didn't really like the ending that much, but I never really let it bother me. I have never understood hating a whole story for a disappointing last page. Stephen King has made a successful career out of disappointing last pages. He takes pride in it. He took time to lecture us on it before his own magnum opus whimpered and crashed after the worst final boss fight in the history of books. (But shhhh, I liked that ending too). Mostly I agree with you. My only exception is Dexter, whose finale traveled back through time and ruined every single moment of that series.
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Aug 8, 2014 16:46
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I thought the ending was great, but maybe that's because I'd been reading a lot of Arthur C. Clarke books at the time and his stories almost always end in thematically similar ways. I get that most people probably wanted Star Wars and not Childhood's End, though.
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Aug 8, 2014 17:13
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pwnyXpress posted:I thought the ending was great, but maybe that's because I'd been reading a lot of Arthur C. Clarke books at the time and his stories almost always end in thematically similar ways. I get that most people probably wanted Star Wars and not Childhood's End, though. Okay, but now look at it critically instead of through Clarke blinders and you see that it's just overall underdeveloped. A Universal intelligence could have been an interesting idea were it handled well.
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Aug 8, 2014 17:22
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