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Well that's what I meant but I agree
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Aug 7, 2014 23:24
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Zeitgueist posted:so racist stop and frisks are OK as long as it's not completely obvious that they're racist In practice, sometimes. The NYC stops were "justified" in part on nonracial grounds, but one of the arguments used against them were that the % of the minorities stopped were way higher than the % of the minorities actually committing crimes (the full statistical analysis and associated arguments from both sides got very complicated, I never fully followed up on them but the accuracy of some of them are part of the ongoing appeals). At a minimum systematized or structurally racist stops are likely to get caught and halted...eventually. I am uncertain of the wisdom or the ethics of the Terry Stop or Stop and Frisk (generic, not NYC-flavor), but I think it'd help the conversation around them if we can keep the terms straight. (It's probably not a surprise that "Stop and Frisk" originally was the general legal doctrine and got bastardized into just referring to the NYC thing by the press.) It's worth mentioning that there's a, by my understanding, quite strong legal argument that the racist intent of the officer isn't important if the nonracial pretext for the stop is itself valid. The NYC stuff didn't even meet that standard. It's the kind of uncomfortable nuance thing that got me my latest custom title. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 23:25
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Discendo Vox posted:In practice, sometimes. The NYC stops were "justified" in part on nonracial grounds, but one of the arguments used against them were that the % of the minorities stopped were way higher than the % of the minorities actually committing crimes. The statistical analysis got very complicated, but at a minimum systematized or structurally racist stops are likely to get caught and halted...eventually. Yeah. What I'm saying is that I'd bet that a statistical analysis of Terry stops would probably find a similar bias, just not as pronounced. The NYPD version was just clear enough that it was hard to dispute. System remains racist, yada yada.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:28
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:A thing can be legal but not okay lol just lol no cop or judge gives one poo poo about this to even suggest it is hilarious
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Aug 7, 2014 23:33
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He or she didn't claim that judges or police would care though? Just clarifying that stating something is within the law does not mean you personally approve of it.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:42
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yeah and I meant "ok" from a legal perspective not a moral one
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Aug 7, 2014 23:43
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i think all lawyers should be brutally murdered.
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Aug 7, 2014 23:59
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Discendo Vox posted:"Stop and Frisk", when used in reference to "Terry Stops" that involve a patdown for weapons, is legal. The NYC laws were struck down because police weren't even meeting this very low standard, but the general practice of stopping people with little reason and patting them down is legal, and probably will remain so. If a policeman does this, surprise surprise, don't give them poo poo about it- they think you're armed. I am armed. Why wouldn't I be? He is.
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Aug 8, 2014 00:09
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SedanChair posted:I am armed. Why wouldn't I be? He is. Police departments HATE him! One weird trick discovered by a
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Aug 8, 2014 00:30
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I skipped a step in describing the stop and frisk standard- it's different from, and greater than, the Terry Stop standard, although in practice it's quite low and not well-defined in caselaw. Please take another look at the post when considering how stop and frisk and Terry stops are distinguished. I was so annoyed about people thinking that terry stops and stop and frisk were illegal that I did a lovely job of outlining them- my apologies. That said, a stop and frisk of SedanChair will always be justified due to obvious and imminent Forum Crimes. R. Mute posted:i think all lawyers should be brutally murdered. In the grim darkness of the future, there are only lawyers. (Does this include the people at the ACLU?)
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Aug 8, 2014 01:04
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Lawyers are pretty much what stands between you and the people who want to use the legal system to screw you, so I'd say hating lawyers is a nonstarter.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:11
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Discendo Vox posted:That said, a stop and frisk of SedanChair will always be justified due to obvious and imminent Forum Crimes. Posting While SedanChair.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:23
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MSNBC just showed a few seconds of the ISIS propaganda tape including them doing donuts in a tank in the middle of the street. It looked pretty cool.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:26
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I mean, let's be honest here, given a tank and a desert, we'd all do the same.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:32
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Joementum posted:I mean, let's be honest here, given a tank and a desert, we'd all do the same. Car and Driver magazine once had a race between a tank, and Jay Leno's custom hot rod with the engine from a tank.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:43
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Drive better than those Russians.
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Aug 8, 2014 01:43
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zoux posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5o_LwqX77I Christianity is stupid! Communism is good! Give up!
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Aug 8, 2014 04:44
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StandardVC10 posted:Car and Driver magazine once had a race between a tank, and Jay Leno's custom hot rod with the engine from a tank. Jay Leno can die. And his car collection should be split up and never spoken of again; it doesn't represent any achievement like LeMay's does. Jay Leno is execrable. Car and Driver is great though, in spite of their servile attitude towards the industry. When I was a kid my two prize possessions were a Swiss Army knife and a 1977 issue of car and driver with the Countach on the cover. I wanted to be a staff writer for them when I grew up. Brock Yates is a fool but Sunday Driver is an amazing book.
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Aug 8, 2014 05:07
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SedanChair posted:Jay Leno can die. And his car collection should be split up and never spoken of again; it doesn't represent any achievement like LeMay's does. Most recently I found C&D's treatment of the General Motors recall thing to be pretty lacking, but their writing is probably the most entertaining of the American car magazines.
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Aug 8, 2014 06:15
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Shear Modulus posted:What is this poo poo, Axis and Allies cosplay? http://bit.ly/1u4n1ST Nazi man so cute ^___^ Trench_Rat posted:worse than mongolian neo nazis
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Aug 8, 2014 06:40
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Or the Nazi hipsters in Indonesia: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/indonesias-nazi-themed-soldatenkaffee-reopens-wwii-cafe-n141631 quote:The establishment is named after a German military cafe in WWII’s occupied Paris. Giant Nazi flags and Waffen SS propaganda grace its red walls. Customers can order “Nazi goreng” (a revisited version of traditional Indonesian fried rice dish "nasi goreng") served on swastika-motif china, by a waiter wearing an SS uniform. The SoldatenKaffee (Soldier’s cafe) first opened in 2011. 
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Aug 8, 2014 07:11
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Also I desperately wish GBS would get out of the Middle East thread
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Aug 8, 2014 07:15
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Gail Wynand posted:Also I desperately wish GBS would get out of the Middle East thread You can always tell when the possibility of war is in the news, tyros who apparently were pissing their diapers during OIF show up with Key Opinions for you to consider.
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Aug 8, 2014 07:17
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Gail Wynand posted:Or the Nazi hipsters in Indonesia: Is this a good place to mention that there is a Confederate-themed bar in Tel Aviv called The Rebel Diner Bar?    
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Aug 8, 2014 07:34
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Gail Wynand posted:Or the Nazi hipsters in Indonesia: Why did they not call it Nazi Göring?
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Aug 8, 2014 07:38
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Is this a good place to mention that there is a Confederate-themed bar in Tel Aviv called The Rebel Diner Bar? not gonna lie, I would hang out there
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Aug 8, 2014 07:56
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Singapore has a bar like that too, it's impressively legit. Also full of prostitutes which somehow makes it even better. Last time I went they were showing college rodeo and playing some Hank Williams.
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Aug 8, 2014 07:58
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Grognan posted:not gonna lie, I would hang out there That's very telling.
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Aug 8, 2014 08:07
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Is this a good place to mention that there is a Confederate-themed bar in Tel Aviv called The Rebel Diner Bar? I'm surprised that it's not named after Judah Benjamin.
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Aug 8, 2014 08:39
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Pope Guilty posted:Lawyers are pretty much what stands between you and the people who want to use the legal system to screw you, so I'd say hating lawyers is a nonstarter. (I'm a lawyer.  )
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Aug 8, 2014 10:08
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Lancelot posted:(I'm a lawyer. The guillotine is too good for you.
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Aug 8, 2014 10:16
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I'd hug a lawyer. There's plenty of good ones, if that one show that had all those Star Trek actors guest-star is any indication.
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Aug 8, 2014 10:17
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Warszawa is pretty much SA's token good-natured lawyer.
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Aug 8, 2014 10:27
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Are any of you wondering who to vote for in the New Zealand general election this September? http://onthefence.co.nz/
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Aug 8, 2014 11:21
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If you want to kill all lawyers you are technically threatening the First Lady of the United States of America. Please don't make the secret service come down on these forums again. 
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Aug 8, 2014 12:53
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it's just annoying that lawyers are one of those professions who get really anal about everything. they just can't switch off outside the courtroom. i mean, people use legal terms incorrectly, yeah, but that's just colloquial use and as long as you understand what they're trying to say - which you do, remember - you don't have to explain every goddamn legal term every time it comes up. or how they forget about things like ethics, politics, opinions in favour of THE LAW. it's like a bunch of really boring, grey dredds.
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Aug 8, 2014 13:11
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Great chyron, or the greatest chyron?
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Aug 8, 2014 13:23
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Speaking of lawyers they said on NPR yesterday that lawyers will be one of the first white collar jobs the robots will take in the future.
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Aug 8, 2014 13:39
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R. Mute posted:it's just annoying that lawyers are one of those professions who get really anal about everything. they just can't switch off outside the courtroom. i mean, people use legal terms incorrectly, yeah, but that's just colloquial use and as long as you understand what they're trying to say - which you do, remember - you don't have to explain every goddamn legal term every time it comes up. or how they forget about things like ethics, politics, opinions in favour of THE LAW. it's like a bunch of really boring, grey dredds.
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Aug 8, 2014 14:08
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Joementum posted:Great chyron, or the greatest chyron? Lol. Ok so when I was in college I was a pretty huge marijuana activist because of course I was. I even founded a chapter of NORML at my campus and was an invited speaker at a drug war forum where I was shouted down by the entire audience after I said that probably we should legalize all drugs. Anyways it's an issue that's close to my heart and the fact that we are literally gradually legalizing marijuana in this country blows my mind. So when I read reports that legalization in CO did nothing to increase the teen usage rate, the great anti-legalization bugaboo, it makes me  as hell. 
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Aug 8, 2014 15:50
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