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Captain Oblivious posted:Yeah but why would anyone be dumb enough to dual at 13? The math is plainly, obviously bad. I was thinking about it for the sweet extra attack and so on. edit: mind you I am so bad at baldur's gate charop I only realized this morning 20h in that my kensai is an elf.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:06
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Icewind Dale: I'm going to have two fighters that I'll dual-class to a Mage and a Druid. I know about the restrictions in proficiencies and alignment, but I was wondering if the best level to dual over is 3? I don't want gimp my characters for long even if dualing from level 9 gives great HP. Icewind Dale II: Outside of receiving an EXP penalty if your non-favored class levels vary by more than one, does it really matter the order in which you choose class levels?
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Aug 8, 2014 18:08
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Icewind Dale II: Outside of receiving an EXP penalty if your non-favored class levels vary by more than one, does it really matter the order in which you choose class levels? You want to choose whatever class you care about skills the most from at level 1; you get a x4 modifier to skill points at first level to allow you to take four ranks in all the skills you're interested in. If you take rogue or whatever at level 2, you'll be drastically behind on skill points for pretty much the rest of the game.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:10
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yeah but why would anyone be dumb enough to dual at 13? The math is plainly, obviously bad. It's the more optimal way.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:18
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ANIME MONSTROSITY posted:It's the more optimal way. That's pretty debateable, really. What is optimality in this context? The final result? What does the final result matter if it's applied to 10% of the game? If that?
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Aug 8, 2014 18:22
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You're going to get your kensai abilities back before the end of Shadows of Amn, and it's not like a level 9 wizard is useless or terrible in anyway.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:31
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Kajeesus posted:Does anyone know what's supposed to happen in Jan's quest if you tell him you'll meet him at his house? I let him go and then went to his house immediately after because I realized I wanted a thief, but he's not at his house. If I go, all I meet is Lissa saying "Please help my daughter!" I had this happen. I assume it's some kind of bug that pops up if you tell Jan to go off on his own. Waiting a few days made things progress...but then Jan's daughter was dead. *Whoops*.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:39
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Icewind Dale: I'm going to have two fighters that I'll dual-class to a Mage and a Druid. I know about the restrictions in proficiencies and alignment, but I was wondering if the best level to dual over is 3? I don't want gimp my characters for long even if dualing from level 9 gives great HP. Dualing from higher levels isn't about the HP so much as the extra attacks and proficiency points you get. Fighters get +.5 attacks/per round at 7th level, and get another .5 at 13th. The reason people pick 9th is they get that extra half attack from level 7 and then at level 9 you get one more weapon proficiency point on top of that. Dualing at level 3 doesn't really give you much except a little bit better thaco than a regular mage and access to fighter gear. I'd go at least to 7th for that extra half attack per round, or else why are you even taking the fighter levels?
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Aug 8, 2014 20:23
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Ginette Reno posted:The reason people pick 9th is they get that extra half attack from level 7 and then at level 9 you get one more weapon proficiency point on top of that. Also, IIRC, 9th is the last level fighters get their full HD in hitpoints on a level-up. After that they only get +3 per level, so dualing at 9 gives the most efficient HP pool.
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Aug 8, 2014 20:54
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yeah but why would anyone be dumb enough to dual at 13? The math is plainly, obviously bad. There are a few Duals that are "worth" waiting for: Stalker->Cleric: Dual at 12 to get Haste, PfNM, and Minor Spell Deflection as normal Cleric 3 spells. Archer->Cleric: Dual at 12 to apply Strength, Thac0, and Spell Save penalty to Fire Seeds, Energy Blades, and Magical Stone  .Beastmaster->Cleric: Dual at 12 to get Animal Summoning 1-3 as normal Cleric 1-3 Spells. Assassin->Cleric: Dual at 21  to get max backstabs, poison weapon (Poison Fire Seeds!), and UAI on a cleric.Priest of Lathander->Thief: Dual at 21 to get 3x Boon + Dual Wield + Improved Haste = 10x Assassination attacks.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:27
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Has anyone tried a Kensai/Thief dualclass? How do they compare to pure Kensai? I imagine that their damage output must suffer since they don't get warrior HLAs, though I've seen people recommend them. From what I've gathered, 13 is considered the optimal level to do this dual-classing.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:34
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Factor_VIII posted:Has anyone tried a Kensai/Thief dualclass? How do they compare to pure Kensai? I imagine that their damage output must suffer since they don't get warrior HLAs, though I've seen people recommend them. From what I've gathered, 13 is considered the optimal level to do this dual-classing. I ran one a while ago. It's all about the backstabs, though you're kinda fragile until you get Use Any Item and can wear armour. A proper glass cannon, and very powerful if you get a mage to slap some buffs on you before a fight.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:44
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Factor_VIII posted:Has anyone tried a Kensai/Thief dualclass? How do they compare to pure Kensai? I imagine that their damage output must suffer since they don't get warrior HLAs, though I've seen people recommend them. From what I've gathered, 13 is considered the optimal level to do this dual-classing. They can eventually get 10x attacks per round with grandmastery, dual wield, items and Improved Haste, which leads to max Assassination attacks. Before that they will have really great backstabs that hit quickly, almost never miss, and do amazing damage. They also eventually lose their armor and missile weapon restrictions. Very potent powergaming class.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:45
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Factor_VIII posted:I imagine that their damage output must suffer Kai gives you max damage on next hit. Staff of the Ram has max damage of 16 (pre-ToB). From level 13 that's a minimum of 80 damage before strength bonuses and crit rolls. With HLAs they can do this ten times a round.
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Aug 8, 2014 22:05
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Kai gives you max damage on next hit. Staff of the Ram has max damage of 16 (pre-ToB). From level 13 that's a minimum of 80 damage before strength bonuses and crit rolls. Don't forget that Kensai damage bonuses and Two-handed weapon specialization bonus are added before backstab multiplier, so we are actually talking about 105 base damage. And you can get the Staff of Striking at the very beginning of the game which does 15 max damage. For using Assassination at high levels you will want to use Hindo's Doom and Belm though.
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Aug 8, 2014 22:30
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I still have the original BG and BG2. Dang am I missing out on a ton of extra cool stuff. Can't justify the repurchase though:(
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Aug 8, 2014 22:57
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I dual-classed my level 13 fighter to a swashbuckler using EEKeeper. It's similar to a kensai-thief but the power curve is a bit less steep and more consistent. Since it's a 2 person run it didnt take long at all to reactivate my fighter levels.
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Aug 9, 2014 00:04
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Kai gives you max damage on next hit. Staff of the Ram has max damage of 16 (pre-ToB). From level 13 that's a minimum of 80 damage before strength bonuses and crit rolls. Unfortunately everything that would warrant this is immune to Backstabs 
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Aug 9, 2014 00:13
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DeathChicken posted:I had this happen. I assume it's some kind of bug that pops up if you tell Jan to go off on his own. Waiting a few days made things progress...but then Jan's daughter was dead. *Whoops*. Yeah, I waited and eventually Jan was there. He just morosely asked to rejoin the party and didn't want to talk about what happened. It seems like this is how it's intended to go, except that there's no script changing Lissa's response. I'm sorry, little guy.  (It's his ex-girlfriend's daughter, by the way)
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Aug 9, 2014 01:34
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So I managed to make it through Cloakwood mines, and I've finally made it Baldur's Gate. Somebody pointed out that there's a lot of side-quests to do in the city, and that it's easy to get burned out. Awful as it might be to say, I'd like to do as few as them as possible so I can continue with the story. Are there any specific side-quests that should absolutely be done before moving on? The other question I had was concerning what equipment or spells I should have before the end of the game. I have the Golden Pantaloons, but I remember that there were a couple of other items that carry over into BG2. Mostly I'm concerned with what I need for the final boss.
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Aug 9, 2014 01:58
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So one last question post before I start this, I swear. What are all the bonuses for having high stats again? I know 18 Strength gets me the slash levels, and everything higher then that is just more damage. I know 18 Dex is good for AC rating, but does that eventually cap out? Is there a point Dex won't help me with defense anymore? Diminishing Dex returns or something like that? Constitution is the tricky stat for me. I remember seeing lots of posts saying 16 was more then enough Con for anybody, but since it handles health per level, if I got the Tome would it actually change the gain per level? Could I theoretically do 15 Con until I got the Tome? Would it matter? I know I need 17 Int just to dual later. 18 gives me more spellbook space/no failure on scribing. 19 is unlimited spellbook space? How useful is that/does it offer anything else? Would going 16 Int then using the book work? And then Wisdom effects Wish, but looking at the spell, almost all the things it does seem negative. Is it really worth putting Wisdom at 12/14/16 and getting the two Tomes just to use Wish more often? Does it do anything else? And if I'm dualing at 9, do I hit Fighter rank 9, then dual class when ai technically should be leveling up, or do I level up, then dual when I actually hit level 10. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 01:59
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16 is what you want for non-fighters. For fighters you want As Much As Possible. Strength you want As Much As Possible for damage. Dex is actually less important, as you'll have lots of spell protections to look after you. Ideally high. Int you only need for the dual classing requirements. Cha and Wis, who cares really.
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Aug 9, 2014 02:04
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As someone mentioned earlier, mages are easy to dual class into because they get exp from scribing scrolls. You'll probably gain a couple of early mage levels just by writing down all the spell scrolls you've saved up. You can even cheese this by erasing and rescribing every scroll in sight (cheese it even further by kicking everyone out of your party first so you won't have to share the exp).
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Aug 9, 2014 02:14
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Rookersh posted:I know 18 Strength gets me the slash levels, and everything higher then that is just more damage. quote:I know 18 Dex is good for AC rating, but does that eventually cap out? Is there a point Dex won't help me with defense anymore? Diminishing Dex returns or something like that? pre:10-14 0 15 -1 16 -2 17 -3 18-20 -4 21-23 -5 24-25 -6 quote:Constitution is the tricky stat for me. I remember seeing lots of posts saying 16 was more then enough Con for anybody, but since it handles health per level, if I got the Tome would it actually change the gain per level? Could I theoretically do 15 Con until I got the Tome? Would it matter? Bonus warrior HP pre:16 2 17 3 18 4 19-20 5 21-23 6 24-25 7 quote:I know I need 17 Int just to dual later. 18 gives me more spellbook space/no failure on scribing. 19 is unlimited spellbook space? How useful is that/does it offer anything else? Would going 16 Int then using the book work? Scribing success (%) pre:16 70 17 75 18 85 19 95 20 96 21 97 22 98 23 99 24-25 100 quote:And then Wisdom effects Wish, but looking at the spell, almost all the things it does seem negative. Is it really worth putting Wisdom at 12/14/16 and getting the two Tomes just to use Wish more often? Does it do anything else? quote:And if I'm dualing at 9, do I hit Fighter rank 9, then dual class when ai technically should be leveling up, or do I level up, then dual when I actually hit level 10. Sleep of Bronze fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 02:20
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Starting at 15 and then tomeing up to 16 is viable for non-fighters you'll retroactively get the correct number of hit points the first time you level up after using it (iirc). You will be a little squishier than usual until you get it though, and if you're starting off in a fighter clad Note that you'll need 18 Int to scribe level 9 spells in BG2, and while you can get around that with potions, having it naturally is much less of a hassle. There's no reason not to max dexterity, every point literally translates into a point of AC. Having 19 isn't so hot (unless you're using missile attacks), but could be useful for plot reasons. Note that you only need a roll of 78 to cap your important attributes, which is totally feasible even in an ironman take-the-first-roll situation. Dump your extra points in Wisdom and grab all three (not two) tomes, and you might be able to make use of Wish. If you don't get it high enough then don't worry about it, you can use potions or other moderately cheesy methods to get around that. Jabor fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 02:28
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Rookersh posted:So one last question post before I start this, I swear. http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/8566 But briefly, Strength helps for any characters who want to hit poo poo in melee, but there's no effect between 9 and 16, so either max it out, or just make it high enough that your carrying capacity doesn't annoy you too much. Dex 15-18 gives you an ac bonus that increases each number, then you don't get another point until 21 Dex, which isn't impossible to get to legitimately, but it's hard and requires some serious metagaming. Constitution gives you extra hp, but if you aren't a fighter/ranger/paladin it only gives you bonus points at 15 and 16, but warriors get an extra point each at 17, 18, 19 and 21. I don't think there's enough spells to be super concerned about how many spells you can copy per level. The bad wish options are what pops when you have a poo poo wisdom, but I don't think it's worth planning a character around the spell, the only time I've ever used the spell was actually using limited wish because it has a quest attached. Edit: Oh yeah (I wrote half of this not realizing you were specifically planning a fighter/mage dual, but my early stuff still applies) become a level 9 fighter then hit the dual class button. You can dual class at any time, but I think you lose any experience points you've banked, so do it immediately after reaching level 9. If you're playing through both games, I'm pretty sure you can't hit level 9 in BG1 and if you can (I don't remember what the level cap is in EE) you probably shouldn't dual class, because I don't think there's enough experience to become a useful mage left in the game at that point, just stop leveling up and wait til you get to bg2, and if you are skipping straight to bg2 they don't have stat raising books, so make any plans based on that Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 02:28
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I vaguely remember reading somewhere that small races (halflings, gnomes, dwarves) get bonuses to their saves based on their Con at character creation? They were called "shorty bonuses" or something. At least one GAMEFAQ confirms that they still exist in BG:EE and lists them as code:
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Aug 9, 2014 06:23
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Rookersh posted:~stuff about dual classing~ I know you wanted a plain fighter dual class, but the Berserker kit has no restrictions at all. You just gain the berserking ability, which is great. Also for the people complaining about dual classing at level 9, the XP from Irenicus' dungeon alone (and assuming you take all three others with you) is enough to bring most classes from level 1 up to level 8. So if you start in BG1 (which allows fighters to hit level 9) and then dual class at the start of BG2, you're (arguably) the best class for all of BG1, then get to switch to (not arguably) the best class in BG2. Even starting in BG2 just do the copper coronet/slave ship quest straight from Irenicus' dungeon and you'll hit level 9, then be back to level 10 on your new class within one or two new quests. Dual classing at level 13, on the other hand, is dumb unless you're doing a solo run.
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Aug 9, 2014 09:19
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I'm trying to use EEKeeper to change Hexxat's class into something more useful but it doesn't give her the abilities she should have at that level. How do I go about giving her appropriate abilities? Also, under 2e tabletop rules would her "race" be able to dual-class or multiclass? EDIT: Also, I'm using SCS and Navaziah is utterly untouchable. Is there no way my level 8 party can defeat him? Necroskowitz fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 09:49
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I scrapped the Bounty Hunter idea and rolled an Undead Hunter instead. gently caress it, why not. Anyway, the ogre fetishist dropped this thing:  I remember seeing that note a few years back while playing BGTutu and I thought it was some mistake. Is this some easter egg I'm not getting? It sold for 100 gp at Feldepost's.
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Aug 9, 2014 12:58
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I'm pretty sure it's just a random drop with a tiny tiny chance of appearing. With a riddle on, because why not? No quest significance or anything, though.
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Aug 9, 2014 13:18
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Necroskowitz posted:I'm trying to use EEKeeper to change Hexxat's class into something more useful but it doesn't give her the abilities she should have at that level. How do I go about giving her appropriate abilities? Also, under 2e tabletop rules would her "race" be able to dual-class or multiclass? The easiest way to respec an NPC is typically to set their level to 1, and remove all their abilities except for what they'd get at level 1. Then just load up the save and level them up normally.
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Aug 9, 2014 13:37
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fong posted:I know you wanted a plain fighter dual class, but the Berserker kit has no restrictions at all. You just gain the berserking ability, which is great. I get what you are saying, and when I go through Temple/Icewind/Neverwinter I'll probably do a Barb/Mage. Didn't make enough sense for my Candlekeep raised character to be big on Barbarian rages though, and the benefit looks like it peters out by the end of BG1 anyways. It's not like BG1 is very hard when you have a 18/96 str, 17 dex, 17 con, 17 int character though ( first roll! ). And yeah, being a Fighter for the entirety of BG1 ( when it's awesome/amazing/the best choice hands down ), just to become a Mage in BG2 ( when it's awesome/amazing/the best choice hands down ) is what convinced me to do this. The first dungeon is so easy I can do it in my sleep, and Minsc/Jaheria are powerful enough to protect my low level Mage as he gets all his levels back. If I didn't know better, I'd say Chateau Irenicus was specifically designed to boost BG1>BG2 dual classers that wanted to switch at 9. I've also come to love Sword and Shield style in BG1. Absolutely useless come BG2/ToB, but with how many archers are in BG1, it helps a lot. I'm at -6AC versus anyone shooting at me at level 1, which basically means I'm invincible to them. I could probably solo a fairly huge chunk of the Bandit Camp if I wanted by just parking my CHARNAME at the gate then having Imoen shoot everyone. Rookersh fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 13:40
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Ulvino posted:I scrapped the Bounty Hunter idea and rolled an Undead Hunter instead. gently caress it, why not. I just got that note to drop from Icharyd at Ulcaster in BG:EE. It's just an oddity, nothing more.
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Aug 9, 2014 14:34
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Necroskowitz posted:I'm trying to use EEKeeper to change Hexxat's class into something more useful but it doesn't give her the abilities she should have at that level. How do I go about giving her appropriate abilities? Also, under 2e tabletop rules would her "race" be able to dual-class or multiclass? He's a Lich. You're level 8. Come back later. You can't kill liches fresh out of Irenicus's Dungeon with SCS installed.
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Aug 9, 2014 15:42
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Arivia posted:I just got that note to drop from Icharyd at Ulcaster in BG:EE. It's just an oddity, nothing more. It's a riddle "what has arms and legs like a man, but cannot walk or hold things" but the ogre apparently didn't quite get it
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Aug 9, 2014 15:48
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Necroskowitz posted:I'm trying to use EEKeeper to change Hexxat's class into something more useful but it doesn't give her the abilities she should have at that level. How do I go about giving her appropriate abilities? Also, under 2e tabletop rules would her "race" be able to dual-class or multiclass? SCS makes liches quite a bit tougher, and removes some of the cheesier ways to take them out. You should probably just wait a couple of levels, but if you are determined, surround Nevaziah's spawn point with as many traps as possible (sleep and refresh until you get a message saying no more traps are allowed on the map) and send in an army of undead summons to finish the job. A scroll of Protection from Undead should also trivialize the encounter, but I can't remember if SCS nerfed those or not.
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Aug 9, 2014 15:55
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fong posted:Dual classing at level 13, on the other hand, is dumb unless you're doing a solo run. It's a whole lot more tedious but you could steal all the scrolls in Athkatla, kick out everyone from your squad and spend a few hours memorizing/erasing spells for XP. I'm not sure if it's enough to hit 13 but it should be close. (You would also obviously need someone with a high pickpocketing skill).
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Aug 9, 2014 16:05
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Necroskowitz posted:I'm trying to use EEKeeper to change Hexxat's class into something more useful but it doesn't give her the abilities she should have at that level. How do I go about giving her appropriate abilities? Also, under 2e tabletop rules would her "race" be able to dual-class or multiclass? Prepare yourself for a world of pain. My SCS EE playthrough was plagued by some serious bugs, like the Breach spell not working as it should without an external fix. SoA was still tolerable but ToB got to the point where I hit a brick wall with unkillable Sendai (Near Death forever, it's a known bug that hasn't been fixed yet as well). There was a similar bug with Yaga Shura that took me a while to figure out as well. I may have been able to get past it with some very liberal use of cheats to teleport myself around, I guess, but I just couldn't be bothered to at that point. Not to mention SCS requires you to prebuff/spam spells a lot at later stages and it's huge PITA without properly working spell shortcuts (more than half of early level ones and all of the later level ones are missing in EE). If you want to use SCS I'd really suggest ditching EE and sticking to vanilla. Kubla Khan fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 16:12
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Rookersh posted:I get what you are saying, and when I go through Temple/Icewind/Neverwinter I'll probably do a Barb/Mage. Didn't make enough sense for my Candlekeep raised character to be big on Barbarian rages though, and the benefit looks like it peters out by the end of BG1 anyways. It's not like BG1 is very hard when you have a 18/96 str, 17 dex, 17 con, 17 int character though ( first roll! ). The best thing about the rage is that it makes you immune to just about everything in the game and can't be dispelled. Its probably the best kit-based ability, maybe second to Offensive Spin that Blades get. But ya play whatever you want, straight fighter is still great
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Aug 9, 2014 16:18
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