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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br3non-oZMY
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:05 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 10:30 |
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BlitzkriegOfColour posted:Australian Christianity fell apart in the face of the Australian lifestyle. Let Moslems be here in peace and watch as it happens to their faith, too. Why is it our historical mission to enable the reformation of Islam?
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:07 |
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Calico Noose posted:High Five fellow Newcastle Goon, we should have a goon meet-up where we huddle in a vacant shop front on Hunter street. It will have to be soon, after they cut the train there will be no vacant lots. The CBD is about to boom into the worlds busiest shopping district.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:15 |
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Ian Winthorpe III posted:Why is it our historical mission to enable the reformation of Islam? It's not, it will just happen. Let it happen. What valid reason do you have for standing in opposition to it?
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:15 |
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rudatron posted:'Nothing' is actually more valid via parsimony, but you're missing the point: by assuming it's a part of human nature, you're projecting your own way of thinking onto the 'space' of all possible human thought. Under this world view, atheists are somehow...not human? Sub-human? The special exception? And if they're the special exception, why are they a growing subgroup in western countries? Lol three things: = Atheism is a religious position. I've said this a fuckload of times. There is a difference between religion and organised religion, some atheists fall into a vague category of organised believers, some may not. Just like any other religious persuasion = what's your definition of precivilised = I'm guessing you're extrapolating from a book or maybe two, so what are they so I can read them because never in my life have I ever heard someone draw a loving distinction between The Colonies and The Civilised World in terms of whether there was another world because I just loving assumed that when you talk about deities and forces which control and order nature and they sometimes manifest in people or animals but not all the time that could maybe possibly suggest a level of paranormality but never mind, clearly your understanding would trump mine. By which I mean lmao post what the gently caress book you read to lead you to think that 'precivilised' cultures believed gods walked on earth and therefore nowhere else, just as no Greek or roman gods ever descended from the heavens, or how celestial bodies meant nothing except in Europe so aboriginal dreamings and carvings of constellations are just doodles or whatever the gently caress is going on
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:16 |
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Personally, I think god's not real, but also that it's cool for other people to think it is. One variable too many imo.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:16 |
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Phew for a minute there I lost myself. May I drag your attention away for a wee moment to contemplate a bad argument for data retention? Crikey posted:Don't listen to Bernard Keane: in defence of data retention I don't know the history of this guy's utterances so it may well be that he's for/against private companies metadata collection although it doesn't look like he does from this article. But here's his argument boiled-down and why it's bad: 1. Private companies hoover up so much more data than governments!. Probably. But I notice your argument avoids dealing with the cost of compliance for ISPs, that's odd. Perhaps the nice government will give them something to hold the teeny tiny data in? 2. If private companies do it, then it's ok for governments too. Hold on there - in most cases, if we read the EULA, it's part of the deal to agree to such collection by private companies. Let's look at the deal from government: metadata saves us from terrorism. Sorry, when? It's a vague claim: I've still not seen any detail on the claimed 4 times that they stopped a terrorist attack in Australia, much less how, much much less that metadata had any influence. 3. Private companies are more intrusive than governments! Quite possibly. But this is rendered completely silly when you discover that whenever governments ask for it, those same private companies are only too happy to hand that data over! So why does government need more, exactly? 4. The government just wants to retain data a bit longer. This is the party line, but that's not exactly what the ASIO/AFP heads actually mean. They mean that they don't want to ask for a warrant every time they want data AND they want the data retained AND they want it retained for a lot longer than 2 years. Notice how all the caveats about privacy are squashed into a smaller paragraph after the massive one about how silly we are to deny government when we just throw our metadata around for the use of the private sector. Not a very good argument at all.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:35 |
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BlitzkriegOfColour posted:So, essentially, because tradition? The only problem I have with this arises when the unscrupulous sieze upon the word god to trick good people. See: evangelists quoting Einstein "god does not play dice", then raking in money hand over first from the dimwitted. It's not tradition, it's language. Einstein didn't say 'the first uncaused cause doesnt play dice', and if he did it would have been interesting but not particularly catchy. It's not actually the fault of people who are kind and thoughtful and intelligent and wise if their thoughts and words are co-opted by monsters. Another reason why this whole thing is loving pissing me off. One of my best mates is a uniting church minister and he's been arrested twice for doing sit ins with other religious leaders for freeing children from detention, once from morrisons office and once from abbotts. They're being exactly what Christian leaders should be and they are actively leveraging their position as clergy deliberately to effect change, and when they're not protesting they're running food drives and activities for people in community detention. They're not doing it just because they're Christian, they're doing it because they're thoughtful and kind, but even if they were doing it because a book told them to they're doing a fuckload more good than a fuckload of you arseholes itt. E: Like, talk all the poo poo you want but loving back it up by actually loving doing something jesus christ Fruity Gordo fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Aug 13, 2014 |
# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:38 |
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With your assertion that atheism is a religious position you are ignoring the fact that many people use atheism as a stand-in for agnosticism to mean the lack of assertion of any theory, and if you're going to claim that asserting no belief one way or the other is a religious position then you're just plain dumb.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 15:52 |
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= So anarchism is a kind of capitalism, right? Because it opposes it? This argument never seems to crop up anywhere else but here, on religion. Can you apply the same logic to things like racism? Well, you see, anti-racism is a kind of racism, because -. No, that poo poo doesn't fly. Rejection is not a kind of acceptance, blue is not a kind of red, etc. = pre-neolithic, and before a class system. Did you even read my reply? Do you understand the point I'm trying to make? = gently caress off. If you're going to be that disingenuous, then this discussion cannot continue. You can read what I mean in Understanding Early Civilizations by trigger, but if you're just going to Make poo poo Up because you don't have a leg to stand on, then there's nothing I can do about it. Like, it's fine to ask for sources, but a discussion needs good will on both sides to occur. rudatron fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Aug 13, 2014 |
# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:08 |
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Laserface posted:I have been told on a few occasions that China is stupidly racist also, especially towards Indians. It depends, Mainland Chinese look down on pretty much every other Asian background. Apparently if you're from Hong Kong, you just say "I'm from China" and never acknowledge you're from Hong Kong, there's some kind of stigma attached apparently. I have no idea beyond the basic poo poo I got told, but it's a mess from what I can make out. In Asian countries, you'll find a lot of servants and labourers are either of Indian, Filipino and Indonesian backgrounds, so there's a certain stigma attached due to that. Not that I think people should look down on anyone due to background or their trade/work, but yeah, Asia has some weird ideas about social status that aren't even close to Left Western views.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:10 |
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hey fruity dont respond to this post it has way too many tangents and we'll end up arguing about the meaning of theism vs theistic or something stupid read down some more Fruity Gordo posted:But like yeah, I have to respond to soag and TOML because this poo poo really pisses me off. Do we seriously have to go through some bullshit Ditchkins poo poo again about how religion is regressive and atheism is the light and agnosticism is cowardice or can we just go back to our perennial consensus that religious belief is an inherent part of all humans and necessarily concern the divine or a lack thereof or ambivalence? that was a kind of half-assed troll, i really dont care if people believe in religion or not and i get that its "faith" and science doesnt explain it away fro everyone etc etc i personally dont belive in anything and i can't imagine how anyone can make the leap from "where did i come from" to "it was this specific god and his specific teachings" and sincerely belive that i'll never fundamentally see eye-to-eye with someone who is really truly religious in the sense of an adherent to a defined faith because they seem to have such a different way of approaching fundamental questions of existence but that post was shitposting and i am very very live-and-let-live about it and don't really care one way or the other if people are religious quote:Because arguing about how anti-homophobic Muslims are essentially apostates according to your assumptions and prejudices against Islam is loving stupid, and so is talking about how there's no point in being a follower of an explicitly progressive iteration of an ancient religion because... what? Give a reason. i didn't say that and i dont think toml said that either, what we were saying is there's a very strong correlation between faith (of almost any kind) and socially regressive views,not that it's loving stupid or apostasy to be pro-gay, please dont straw man sorry if i did imply that somewhere in my posting, it was like six hours ago and i cant even remember what i posted thirty seconds ago, and it's not what i believe quote:Science? Science and religion are separate, that is the entire point of the scientific method, to break from the authority of the church to allow for reasonable inquiry in both philosophical directions because they clearly diverge. One is based on empirical analysis, one is based in belief systems. Atheism is a belief system. i dont think toml and i ever expressed rigidly pro-atheist views. my personal faith is "who the gently caress knows, if i pick one religion out of 700 i'll probably gently caress it up and choose the wrong one" - ie in the absence of any compelling evidence one way or the other im going to shrug my shoulders and not think about it too much quote:How many loving times do secular scientists have to say that they are not concerned with god or faith in the work they do about the beginnings of the universe? They are not saying it for the benefit of the fundamentally religious. They are saying shut the gently caress up to the smug atheists who jump on any discovery of the universe to say 'lol where's your god'. God is still everywhere, dipshits. God is in everything because I can't explain how anything exists without it, nor can science, and nor can you. You might not see god in anything but everything I see has something to do with something incredible by virtue of the simple fact that it exists. And existence is marvellous and complex and hosed up and worth it and something caused it all to happen and I call that god. see above noones being all raar rarr god is dead gently caress your god and salt the earth (well i was, but that was half tongue in cheek). I guess what i was more getting at was i don't understand why anyone would choose a formal religion in an era when alot of the truth-claims made by organised religions has been shown to be false and belief essentially boils down to "there is a force somewhere that is behind everything i see, experience, and do" plumpy hole lever fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Aug 13, 2014 |
# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:12 |
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Gough Suppressant posted:With your assertion that atheism is a religious position you are ignoring the fact that many people use atheism as a stand-in for agnosticism to mean the lack of assertion of any theory, and if you're going to claim that asserting no belief one way or the other is a religious position then you're just plain dumb. This is it. The dumbest post. Right here.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:13 |
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God is dead and I personally murdered it.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:16 |
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frutity you can ignore my rambling and incoherent post above Essentially, what I was getting at was I don't understand why anyone would choose to convert to a faith, or try to 'reform' a faith that they in some way disagreed with, in an age where competing religions with competing truth claims are all around us. I get the need to believe in the existence of something. I don't understand why that something should be the religion formally known as Judaism, and all the tenets that go along with it. So you believe that something created you, but it doesn't follow that the something doesn't want you to eat pig meat. Why not invent your own personal faith? But i'm not religious so i feel like we're essentially talking two different languages because religion isn't about logic, and A following from B, it's about what you feel i guess?
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:19 |
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also dont loving strawman noones doing a ditchkins
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:23 |
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Is religious chat over? This is worse than loving helmet chat.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 16:39 |
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i got banned posted:Is religious chat over? This is worse than loving helmet chat. Are Sikhs allowed to not wear helmets because of their turbans????
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 17:04 |
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oh yeah sure lets go back to talking aobut OMG I HATE TEH LIBES OMG JOE HOCKEY DID A THING
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 17:24 |
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gas thread ban everyone
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 22:27 |
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I wonder why nobody buys newspapers anymore
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 22:48 |
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Scylo posted:
Next week: EXCLUSIVE, How a secret society of boat people are influencing parliament from their taxpayer funded 5 star accommodation and lobbying to increase the carbon tax to fund building of mosques
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:00 |
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Hey Fruity, I'm sorry that I pissed you off with my post, I should probably have been a bit more thoughtful in handling an issue like this. Honestly I just thought Soag's post was a funny shitpost way of expressing an idea that I pretty much agree with. You're a cool poster and I don't like having pissed you off, so I'm sorry about that. It seems to me like a well thought out reply from me wouldn't exactly help your Thursday get off to a great start, so if you want I am happy to pretty much just leave it there (and clearly there's lots of people in here who'd rather ReligionChat end as soon as possible). Rudatron and Soag have said a bunch of the stuff that I would have said anyway. But if you do actually want a response from me, let me know and I'll type something out when I get time this morning.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:05 |
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adamantium|wang posted:gas thread I can't think of any good reason an Australian would post in this thread. Anyone who posts here could be radicalised, and when they return to GBS they might poo poo post. We should suspend the posting privileges of any Australian who posts in this thread.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:38 |
http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/fire-destroys-links-to-past/2351182/quote:Fire destroys links to Nimbin's hippie past Nimbin Museum of blaze it goes up in flames, a fitting end. All of town is 'major bummed'
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:44 |
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Neville Wran's daughter has been charged with murder.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:49 |
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Robodog posted:Are Sikhs allowed to not wear helmets because of their turbans???? Yes.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:51 |
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i got banned posted:Is religious chat over? This is worse than loving helmet chat. I thought it was a good read but it made me scared because I agreed with a stack of stuff Jonah said.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:58 |
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Also can everyone please stop having tantrums about replying to IWC. If you don't like the conversation don't loving read it. If you don't like IWC just loving ignore him. Stop trying to police discussion in a thread in the debate and discussion forum you fascists.
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# ? Aug 13, 2014 23:59 |
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I don't mind some religionchat once in a while. I thought it was pretty interesting to hear more about that Fruity, since I actually share some of Soag's attitude of just not getting why someone would actively formally convert to another religion. The closest I ever came to that was when I started getting into Paganism instead of Christianity as my last-ditch effort to have some kind of religion, but even that didn't take. But it's strange, I think I've still internalized a lot of things from Christianity, bits and pieces I liked like Jesus saying to help the poor and the outcasts and all that, just... not the actually technically believing any of it part.
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:07 |
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Looks like Joe Hockey has decided the best defence is a KFC double down http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...0814-3dnro.html quote:Just pointing out the facts: Joe Hockey stands by comments on poor people and cars Also to prove he isn't out of touch he admits to smoking cigars since he was 16. This is a thing that has literally happened.
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:24 |
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Gosh, sorry hambeet
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:27 |
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Holy poo poo. Cigar-chomping Foghorn Leghorn of Australian politics. I'm still loving laughing.
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:31 |
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Maybe Labor isn't all bad...
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:32 |
Captain Pissweak posted:Maybe Labor isn't all bad... They would have focus grouped that insult
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:34 |
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Captain Pissweak posted:Holy poo poo. I really hope Pope draws this.
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:36 |
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:36 |
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Captain Pissweak posted:Maybe Labor isn't all bad... Labors charismatic leaders have always had great insults and imaginative wit. Maybe Bill has been chatting with some of them.
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:37 |
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Gentleman Baller posted:Labors charismatic leaders have always had great insults and imaginative wit. Maybe Bill has been chatting with some of them. I think he (or a staffer) has just had some time to prepare the speech. I haven't seen anything exciting from him yet off the cuff, but I don't watch question time so
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:40 |
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# ? May 25, 2024 10:30 |
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It's no country member but given the current state of things I'll take what I can get.
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# ? Aug 14, 2014 00:44 |