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Honestly, we need a skeleton union for all these disenfranchised undead being worked to the bone. Skeletal systems of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your (necromantic magical) chains!
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Aug 14, 2014 00:42
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ungulateman posted:Honestly, we need a skeleton union for all these disenfranchised undead being worked to the bone. Skeletal systems of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your (necromantic magical) chains! If you got enough skeletons into your computer it'd probably achieve sentience. Would it be called Skelnet? SKELDAN? Adam Skelene? SKL? e: FITR? Will it eventually tell you that the only winning move is not to play? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 00:46
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treeboy posted:over the past couple pages it's really sunk in that by and large nobody here is even planning on playing the game or interested in running the game or assisting those that do. The vast majority of posts are by people who have zero interest in D&D, or this edition, and will not be purchasing the rules. For this reason I'm not sure why the thread even exists, it serves no practical purpose. As someone who has been playing this game pretty regularly since we entered post rat swarm testing and is more than likely going to pick up the core 3 books when they eventually release them over here (I apologise for living in the 3rd world nation of Australia) I really don't appreciate this kind of bullshit post. I've done a huge amount of gameplay and testing on these boards. We uncovered a lot of problems and broke the game over our knees repeatedly. We went through and finished the god awful dead in thay! We literally that piece of crap. I want to like this game, it was amazing at first, then went to poo poo but with the rise of the Mr Skeletal King I'm back on board with this game. Edit: As someone who played RPGs for a while but only ever played D&D for the first time last yea let me say that this kind of batshit insanity is what D&D is good at. Its pretty terrible at being a social/political/investigation game, the combat itself isn't even that amazing for the effort required but making some insane combo character that is leading an army of skeletons. Thats where D&D shines. The fun is when the players realise that between the necromancer and the transmuter they can turn the very earth itself into mountains of bones to be animated. Its when you decide to subject bullshit real world physics into abstraction based combat to create peasant railguns. D&D 3.x and it looks like 5e too is perfect for it. For example, I have been playing a character named Krag Hack through all of NEXT's playtesting. Krag Hack has been many classes and been on many adventurers. I plan on having him play a cleric warpriest 1/wizard necromancer 1 (then level the wizard after) to make him a wizard running around in full plate with half damage from all non-magic attacks and have protection from evil. I think this is the best dumb thing you can have as a level 2 character. That this mentally handicapped barbarian-type character is a cleric/wizard who heals from killing stuff and raising things from the dead. I'm excited but this character and game. kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 00:46
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AlphaDog posted:One really good thing about this edition is that all the art I've seen is rad as hell. Nothing because it's not a magic spell.
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Aug 14, 2014 00:54
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Okay. Using Feinting Attack (the single highest-damage maneuver, because it grants Advantage as well as adding to the damage of the hit) the Fighter's DPR looks like this: Which makes the table of how many skeletons you need to beat the Fighter's DPR (with maneuvers on every attack) look like this:   Bear in mind that the Fighter only gets to make a maximum of 6 maneuver-attacks per encounter. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 01:00
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AlphaDog posted:Warriors(4)(Orc/CE): S+3,D+1,C+3,I-2 AC13 SP30 HP15 XP100 Of all the things I was hoping 5e would take from early editions, I was really hoping this was going to be one of them. Once they gave monsters stats and made stats into saves, though, I realized there wasn't much hope of this. And then the monsters-as-spellcasters happened and it all got even less likely.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:23
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MadScientistWorking posted:Actually if I remember correctly Mearls actually stated that RAW the peasant rail gun is a thing in this edition in a tweet. Not totally surprised. Trying to fix the overlapping time for turns in combat is Probably Too Much Work. I went searching, and the earliest I can find it is in a reference in January 2002, but that already referred to it as though it were a previously-discussed thing. I think I came up with a thing like this during one of the early rgfd attempts to discern what the initiative system modeled in 3E. (My answer: "It models people taking turns and there's no coherent chronology past that.")
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Aug 14, 2014 01:34
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Jack the Lad posted:Okay. Using Feinting Attack (the single highest-damage maneuver, because it grants Advantage as well as adding to the damage of the hit) the Fighter's DPR looks like this: Could you stop with the skeletons at this point it's starting to get really annoying.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:36
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ThaGhettoJew posted:At Ranger 11th your pet gets two attacks per your "Attack" order, so that's something. At that point you can get one of your weapon attacks and two of its whatevers OR using its "Help" you can get two attacks, one with Advantage. Aside from small defensive buffs like casting Barkskin for AC or temporary HP from Enhance Ability, I can't really find much about making companions any better at all. Not even a Magic Fang in this edition so far. I guess you could buy it some barding at quadruple the cost of regular armor and see if your GM will allow you to get a Wizard to enchant it. How hard can it be to buy some plate mail for your flying snake? If animal buddies can't really be upgraded, and there's no Magic Fang, does that make them fundamentally and permanently useless at higher level play when every monster is immune to the non-magical items that are I double super pinky swear promise meant to be optional?
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Aug 14, 2014 01:37
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MonsterEnvy posted:Could you stop with the skeletons at this point it's starting to get really annoying. I personally think it's hilarious.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:45
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MonsterEnvy posted:Could you stop with the skeletons at this point it's starting to get really annoying. If you can get me more excited about something else in the game I'll talk abut that. Currently I'm the most hyped up about my skeletal hordes.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:46
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Jack the Lad posted:Okay. Using Feinting Attack (the single highest-damage maneuver, because it grants Advantage as well as adding to the damage of the hit) the Fighter's DPR looks like this: Please continue, charts and tables please me.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:46
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The Fighter posted:Could you stop with the skeletons at this point it's starting to get really annoying. Thanks for the numbers Jack, cool to read.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:47
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I sub to this thread in order to learn more about Dungeon & Skeletal Hordes.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:51
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ungulateman posted:Honestly, we need a skeleton union for all these disenfranchised undead being worked to the bone. Skeletal systems of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your (necromantic magical) chains! moths posted:Necromantic Economy regards the boneletarian ... like a horse, he must receive enough to enable him to work. It does not consider him, during the time when he is not working, as a former human being. It leaves this to criminal law, doctors, religion, statistical tables, politics, and the beadle. Although four pages later, Skeletariat would have been a better word choice.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:54
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OtspIII posted:Of all the things I was hoping 5e would take from early editions, I was really hoping this was going to be one of them. Once they gave monsters stats and made stats into saves, though, I realized there wasn't much hope of this. And then the monsters-as-spellcasters happened and it all got even less likely. I'm not saying it would be perfect or ideal, or that it's how i'd make a game, and that's my point. It's a point i'd make to the people bitching about the high 'grog' levels on this thread: We are not after perfect or ideal from 5e. We're not grognards. We don't hate everything different. We just have standards. We want things to at least try to work. Various people are after various things, but 5e is doing a poor job with pretty much all of those things. If 5e had been a stripped-to-the-bone game, or to use this example, a game where a lot of the monsters were throw-away quasi minions, people herabouts would not be ragging on it like they are. I mean, in theory 5e is a simpler game, but in practice?
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Aug 14, 2014 01:54
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ProfessorCirno posted:If animal buddies can't really be upgraded, and there's no Magic Fang, does that make them fundamentally and permanently useless at higher level play when every monster is immune to the non-magical items that are I double super pinky swear promise meant to be optional? Yeah, imagine, an entire class build rendered basically irrelevant by the middle levels of the game. Who would have thunk it? (to be fair, beastmaster rangers haven't yet been made not to suck in any edition of D&D of which I'm aware...)
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Aug 14, 2014 01:54
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Skeleton chat and pretty much every single long-running amusing criticism of this game has actually made me far more interested in Next than any of the people bitching about skeleton chat have. It's almost like taking balance concerns to logical extremes and applying critical thought to games is more fun than basically admitting you're against thinking.
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Aug 14, 2014 01:54
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MonsterEnvy posted:Could you stop with the skeletons at this point it's starting to get really annoying. At level 15 the necromancer can summon the dreaded Red Skelton: 
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Aug 14, 2014 01:58
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A secret photo of the design process involved in fixing the problems with the beta:
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Aug 14, 2014 02:00
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mods change the thread title to D&D NEXT: I CAN TASTE PISS
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Aug 14, 2014 02:01
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Number 48! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVHqTzyZ-oM Confess!
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Aug 14, 2014 02:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:Nothing because it's not a magic spell. That's the way I read the rules too, but that reading is at odds with the natural language meaning of "magically". In second and third edition, the gaze was explicitly called out as being "as per" the spell. Are there other explicitly magical yet non-spell effects in the rules? Can those be dispelled? Why isn't the spell called "remove spell" if it does that instead of dispelling magic? What I'm getting at is that the "natural language" used qllows these questions to be asked, and I think that's poor design.
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Aug 14, 2014 02:03
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In non-skeleton news, Morningstar had been renamed to Dungeon Scape. http://dnddungeonscape.com
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Aug 14, 2014 02:16
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ProfessorCirno posted:If animal buddies can't really be upgraded, and there's no Magic Fang, does that make them fundamentally and permanently useless at higher level play when every monster is immune to the non-magical items that are I double super pinky swear promise meant to be optional? If you can somehow find a CR1/4 Beast creature with a magic attack, I guess you'll be fine. The stats tag monster attacks with "Melee Weapon Attack" so maybe your DungeonMearls will allow your party Wizard to Magic Weapon it for a while. Otherwise, not so much. The totality of the Unarmed Attack rules in the PHB are a sentence saying it exists, some class feature scraps in the Monk, a damage listing in the weapons table, and the Tavern Brawler optional feat. The Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard aren't even proficient in it. edit2: At level 15 you can blow 100g of diamond dust and Concentration to cast Stoneskin to grant you and your flying snake bro ThaGhettoJew fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 02:17
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ritorix posted:In non-skeleton news, Morningstar had been renamed to Dungeon Scape. http://dnddungeonscape.com Does it have a dedicated skeleton tracker?
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Aug 14, 2014 02:18
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ThaGhettoJew posted:edit: At level 15 you can blow 100g of diamond dust and Concentration to cast Stoneskin to grant you and your flying snake bro a similar immunity to non-magic weapons, thereby protecting you from the terrible scourge of other Beast Master Rangers. For an hour. Huh, is that so? I thought Stoneskin just gave you resistance to all weapon damage.
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Aug 14, 2014 02:25
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Nancy_Noxious posted:Does it have a dedicated skeleton tracker? It does have a monster tracker that you can hit a plus sign to add another monster. But I didn't try it with a realistic number of skeletons, like a few hundred.
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Aug 14, 2014 02:28
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ProfessorCirno posted:If animal buddies can't really be upgraded, and there's no Magic Fang, does that make them fundamentally and permanently useless at higher level play when every monster is immune to the non-magical items that are I double super pinky swear promise meant to be optional? The easiest thing to do would be to remove immunity to non-magical items since it's almost never interesting (it works in a setting where there are 3 magic swords and two are in the hands of the Dread Knights of Darkness, less so when a wizard can churn out +1 swords as a cottage industry). Of course, that still requires the GM to fix the game for WotC. EDIT: Actually, what if you made that a trait of fighters? Pretty much nobody else gets magical weapons besides straight fighter classes (barbarians, rogues, fighters, etc) and normal magic does nothing to large classes of enemies. It's like the Dresden Files, where the entire White Council of Wizards can't take on a single Outsider but Michael can go in there with his Sword of the True Cross and kill kill everything in sight. NovemberMike fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 02:28
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I think D&D is great at being dumb as hell and 5E is great D&D which I look forward to playing
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Aug 14, 2014 02:32
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Since you only need about 20 skeletons to outdamage a fighter most of the time (if I'm reading that chart correctly), you could save the gear/weapons/tusks/skins of every major enemy you've defeated (and party member you've lost) and dress up and name each of the skeletons after those enemies/party members. This would have the added benefit of giving all of them better weapons and/or armor.
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Aug 14, 2014 02:42
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Ferrinus posted:Huh, is that so? I thought Stoneskin just gave you resistance to all weapon damage. So it is. My bad. Half damage from the terrible scourge of Beast Master Rangers then.
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Aug 14, 2014 02:46
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homullus posted:Since you only need about 20 skeletons to outdamage a fighter most of the time (if I'm reading that chart correctly), you could save the gear/weapons/tusks/skins of every major enemy you've defeated (and party member you've lost) and dress up and name each of the skeletons after those enemies/party members. This would have the added benefit of giving all of them better weapons and/or armor. Oooh this sounds like The Darkness with finding little darklings wearing stupid gear. I want to change my wizard.
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Aug 14, 2014 02:54
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They put out the full trailer for Tyranny of Dragons http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/tz7i0x/dungeons---dragons--tyranny-of-dragons-exclusive-debut-trailer
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Aug 14, 2014 03:44
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So the skeleton thing has some problems, as I mentioned before, but thinking about it and reading the PHB I figured out solutions to all of them, because I got really nostalgic for an old Black Lore of Moil blaster necromancer I DM'd for in 3rd. First off, you need piles of bones to animate, not corpses. Corpses make zombies which are trash. You could start with some seed Zombies and use them to pick corpses clean, but I'm going to recommend making friends with a Druid (or Bard who likes picking spells off their list), who can turn into and talk to animals that can eat raw flesh and leave you the valuable bones. They'll also be useful later. Another problem is keeping the skeletons healthy, because the way to really abuse how many skeletons you're expected to have is the second use of Animate Dead: reasserting control over 4 skeletons instead of creating 2 (1 plus the one for being a necromancer), so you don't want to lose them. Unfortunately, cure spells and the like have no effect on undead or constructs. That's okay though, because no cleric is going to want to hang out with you anyway, and if they got charmed they could accidentally Turn Undead and undo your hard work. The real solution to this is the Healer feat and cheap rear end healing kits. Imagine the adorable splints and superhero bandaids. Put it on a Thief who can Use Items as a bonus action and they can sandbag for you too if the DM has something spam Power Word Kill on you for some reason. Another thing that might help is having a charismatic character with Inspiring Leader give them pep talks for temporary hitpoints. Also maybe the skeletons can benefit from rests, and therefore a Bard's Song of Rest. Counterspells, especially from an Abjurer, will keep enemy wizards from undoing all your hard work with area of effect spells, or charming you, the guy who can order the skeletons to kill one another or your party/self. Final problem is moving your army around. The most important thing is getting them into position to surprise round oneshot things, even though they're not that stealthy and nor that fast. Your old pal the Druid can help though, with a spell called Pass Without Trace, which can give you and all your skeletons +10 to stealth and make then untrackable except by magic. So get 30 ft away from that dragon and slap Irresistible Dance on it while your skeletons reenact the ending of Hero. Zooming out, though, other wizards will be using Teleport or Teleportation Circle to get around the world, but the former has a creature limit and the latter will put you in settled places that probably won't appreciate your skeleton army. Again, the Druid is there for you, with Transport Via Plants. "Someone want to sign for this Large Plant? Says it's from a secret admirer..." Then boom, skeletons. That's your scry and die. You're also going to want to get all your skeletons mounts, too, so it can be a cavalry not just an infantry. I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but the Druid's Animal Friendship will make this work, even if the DM uses horror movie logic and has animals hate undead. Summoning some animals will also get you giant rear end dinosaurs and the Mammoth, LOTR style. Just watch out for elves. But what about the martials? You still want them around too, because some things are going to be immune to nonmagical weaponry, and you have a lot of spell slots tied up in having a badass army that can still run interference for them if those enemies don't have area damage or turning. It'll probably be worth it even to have skeleton butlers for them to feed them Help actions so their sneak attacks and junk hit and crit more often, and carry them while they're tired if they're a Frenzy Barbarian. As long as the butlers stay out of your 60ft radius of mental orders they won't get overwritten, unless you can figure out some other way to get around that.
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Aug 14, 2014 04:33
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slydingdoor posted:But what about the martials? You want them around because they're just skeletons waiting to happen - they just don't know it yet!
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Aug 14, 2014 04:40
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It's probably actually worth it to reincarnate them. They might turn into a human for a sweet new feat.
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Aug 14, 2014 05:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:Could you stop with the skeletons at this point it's starting to get really annoying. Or you could go to another board/forum/plane of existence. I'm sure /tg/ can get some really good discussion in before getting derailed by edition warring and bait.
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Aug 14, 2014 05:25
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Xelkelvos posted:Or you could go to another board/forum/plane of existence. I'm sure /tg/ can get some really good discussion in before getting derailed by edition warring and bait. People are genuinely hyped about it being in the game too which is pretty hilarious. I don't know what he doesn't want us to talk about it.
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Aug 14, 2014 05:52
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Every time I see a monk class with elemental powers, I want to run/play an Avatar The Last Airbender game. 5e seems so close.
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Aug 14, 2014 05:55
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