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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us/gov-rick-perry-of-texas-is-indicted-over-veto-of-funds-for-das-office.html?_r=1quote:AUSTIN, Tex. — A grand jury indicted Gov. Rick Perry on two felony counts on Friday, charging that he abused his power last year when he tried to pressure the district attorney here, a Democrat, to step down by threatening to cut off state financing to her office. Well, this is rather huge. I'm wondering what kind of legal hoops the Perry team will try to use to wiggle out of this. If anything, the ensuing mugshot will be forever enshrined in our memories and our hearts.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 06:13 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:28 |
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Edit: Found a link to a news article that links to a copy of the indictment. http://kxan.com/2014/08/15/texas-governor-rick-perry-indicted-by-grand-jury/ Edit 2: FYI Perry is being charged with two counts (or crimes). The first count is Abuse of Official Capacity (Texas Penal Code 39.02). Because the amount alleged to be misused is more than $200,000 its a first degree felony. First degree felonies in Texas are punished by a term of imprisonment from 5-99 years. To prove his case, the prosecutor must prove that Perry misused government property, services, personnel, or any other thing of value belonging to the government that has come into the Perry's custody or possession by virtue of his office or employment. Looking at the definition of "misuse" it'll be interesting to see how the State intends to prove Perry misused government property through a veto. The second count is Coercion of a Public Servant (Texas Penal Code 36.03). Typically, it is a Class A misdemeanor unless the coercion is a threat to commit a felony (the felony in this case being Abuse of Official Capacity I guess) bumping it up to a Third Degree Felony. The range of punishment in Texas for a third degree felony is a term of imprisonment not less than 2 nor more than 10 years. GamingHyena fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Aug 16, 2014 |
# ? Aug 16, 2014 06:32 |
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Even if he somehow gets off, it's another blow to the already dead Republican Party.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 07:01 |
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If he gets off, I imagine it will cause some blowback. The whole fight is already very partisan, so it will come off as Democrats abusing the legal system and trying to send a man to jail for political gain.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 07:05 |
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The right wing shill editorials almost write themselves.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 07:08 |
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Petr posted:If he gets off, I imagine it will cause some blowback. The whole fight is already very partisan, so it will come off as Democrats abusing the legal system and trying to send a man to jail for political gain. They're going to say that anyway.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 07:12 |
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I hope the jury are all longhorns
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 07:16 |
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Badger of Basra posted:They're going to say that anyway. Yes, but more people will believe it if there's an actual unsuccessful case.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 07:19 |
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And it's surely true. I mean even if the guy who brought the indictment is a Pat Fitzgerald type, this all happened because of politics. In this specific case you can't remove any of the context because it's all relevant. Here's a good rundown from before the indictment came down: http://www.texasobserver.org/everything-wanted-know-rick-perrys-new-scandal/ And after: http://www.texasobserver.org/rick-perry-indicted-two-counts/ For Texas stuff, the Observer is usually a good go-to source.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 07:45 |
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ReindeerF posted:And it's surely true. I mean even if the guy who brought the indictment is a Pat Fitzgerald type, this all happened because of politics. In this specific case you can't remove any of the context because it's all relevant. Well, it's the Observer's opinion that this came to a head because Perry was determined to take the chess piece and kill off political corruption investigations, not simply because democrats cooked up a baldfaced scheme to undo him. This is a rather believable version of events, since Perry is identified by opponents as being really big on cronyism. Like, it's extremely his poo poo. quote:Perry's great triumph as governor has been the construction of an elaborate political machine, one that operates according to its own separate dynamic, using donations, appointments and favors as currency. In fact, Texas is run much like a Soviet protectorate, with a party boss (Perry) and a Politburo of superconnected advisers to the governor who shuffle back and forth between the public and private spheres (Perry's chief of staff, Mike "The Knife" Toomey, for instance, jumped from the governor's office to a job lobbying for Merck prior to the HPV vaccination order), all backed by a somewhat larger Central Committee of big financial donors who are the real "representative" power in the state, much more than the actual state legislature. http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rick-perry-the-best-little-whore-in-texas-20111026
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 09:10 |
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No, no, I don't disagree - but even within that narrative it's all political. This is the issue. He didn't rob a liquor store, he's playing politics and they're playing politics back. There's no doubt that Rick Perry is old-school corrupt like the day is long and that all of this is entirely about political corruption, but this is about the worst case imaginable to bring against him because there's no way to unwind the actions of either side from one another. He isn't on trial for the UT stuff or the pharma stuff or the cancer stuff or anything else, he's on trial for a political pissing match with a DA's office that's notoriously political as well and the central issue is my corrupt Governor trying to force out of office a corrupt DA. He's leaving office soon as well, so it's not really helping to remove him from power.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 09:55 |
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Texas Democrats can't do any worse than they already are, and people hate Perry gently caress him and his corrupt cow tipping jerkoff friends in power.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 10:44 |
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Oh they can do worse than they already are, lest we forget the Dream Team. Wendy Davis is no great shakes, but she's the best thing they've tried in a long time. Bill White would've been an excellent Governor, but in American democracy we don't appoint technocrats, you have to actually go out and win elections. Bill White, for all the positive points about the man, was about as engaging and charismatic publicly as wallpaper paste.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 10:48 |
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ReindeerF posted:Oh they can do worse than they already are, lest we forget the Dream Team. Wendy Davis is no great shakes, but she's the best thing they've tried in a long time. Bill White would've been an excellent Governor, but in American democracy we don't appoint technocrats, you have to actually go out and win elections. Bill White, for all the positive points about the man, was about as engaging and charismatic publicly as wallpaper paste. Yes I suppose things could get worse, it just seems like something Perry could have easily not allowed to happen with everything else sliding off of him, this issue might end him?
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 10:57 |
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14 years in power I think the Observer nailed it, you just get comfortable with power. One day you do something that's so completely over the line that it's obvious, but you don't even know it because nothing has ever backfired on you. I'm still not sure the legal case has legs, but he obviously abused his power very publicly for what amounts to no gain. He's not a hugely bright man, though, and he's been in power forever, so I guess it makes sense.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 11:09 |
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ReindeerF posted:No, no, I don't disagree - but even within that narrative it's all political. This is the issue. He didn't rob a liquor store, he's playing politics and they're playing politics back. There's no doubt that Rick Perry is old-school corrupt like the day is long and that all of this is entirely about political corruption, but this is about the worst case imaginable to bring against him because there's no way to unwind the actions of either side from one another. I think the confusion is that (at least in my view) when someone says an issue is "all political" they are typically implying it lacks substance and is only for scoring a few political points. Things like repeatedly voting to repeal PPACA dozens of times when it's obvious the Senate will never take it up and the President would veto it anyway is "all political" because it is done simply to stir up the base. I agree that's a component of this from both sides but the issue at the heart of it is a question of where the limits of power lie and if he crossed them. The issue is about politics (specifically, the powers available to political office and how they may have been abused) but that question isn't "all political" I think is the fine grain. In that sense it's a bit like the recess appointments by Obama: it's about politics but the question of it's legality is a valid one. Which I think we agree on, it just came across differently.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 16:20 |
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ReindeerF posted:14 years in power I think the Observer nailed it, you just get comfortable with power. One day you do something that's so completely over the line that it's obvious, but you don't even know it because nothing has ever backfired on you. I'm still not sure the legal case has legs, but he obviously abused his power very publicly for what amounts to no gain. He's not a hugely bright man, though, and he's been in power forever, so I guess it makes sense. The Grand Old Party - decadent, degenerate, and rotten to the core.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 16:52 |
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I long to see ric perry report to prison, but I don't long for his book tour about re-re-discovering Jesus during his time there. Literal stigmata will appear on his hands.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:04 |
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ReindeerF posted:He isn't on trial for the UT stuff or the pharma stuff or the cancer stuff or anything else, he's on trial for a political pissing match with a DA's office that's notoriously political as well and the central issue is my corrupt Governor trying to force out of office a corrupt DA. He's leaving office soon as well, so it's not really helping to remove him from power.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:07 |
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Lots of corrupt people aren't accused of crimes against the law. Go watch the videos and read the transcripts of her asking to have the Sheriff come release her and threatening his deputies with jail time and so on. Yeah, she's corrupt.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:10 |
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ReindeerF posted:Lots of corrupt people aren't accused of crimes against the law. Go watch the videos and read the transcripts of her asking to have the Sheriff come release her and threatening his deputies with jail time and so on. Yeah, she's corrupt.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:13 |
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Allow me to transport you to bizarro D&D, where a Republican DA is arrested for a DUI and stats calling for her buddies in the police department to bail her out and threatening officers with jail time and that's not considered corrupt.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:16 |
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I dunno, I don't have any skin in the game in the Republican-Democrat thing, so my opinion would be the same?
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:18 |
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My dad still complains about Ronnie Earle. Politics or not, I think there's enough evidence to take Perry down on one of the two. In the first count, the prosecutor will be arguing that the money meant for the Public Integrity Fund was the state property that Perry misused, and if that's got legs he's toast. If not, then this shouldn't be an issue. Perry's counsel issued a statement rebutting this charge, saying he has the authority to fiddle with those funds. The second charge, according to NPR, has a lower burden of proof. Just the threat was illegal, and Perry's counsel's statement didn't address this at all. I dunno if he's got a defense beyond the best story involving The Oasis since the fire.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:23 |
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ReindeerF posted:Allow me to transport you to bizarro D&D, where a Republican DA is arrested for a DUI and stats calling for her buddies in the police department to bail her out and threatening officers with jail time and that's not considered corrupt. This thread would be 20+ pages by now if it was. D&D: this time its "my team" and we don't like rick perry soo...
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 17:48 |
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I don't think the (exceedingly obvious) corruption of the DA has any relevance to the situation with Perry though. The kind of cronyist corruption of trying to weasel your way out of a DUI by name dropping your friends in the PD and throwing around empty threats of jail time is a little more, I don't know, benign? than what Perry is doing which is pretty objectively an abuse of power. In my view it should have nothing to do with political party or consistency of prosecution or whatever, if politicians break the law we need to start nailing these fuckers.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 19:39 |
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ReindeerF posted:Allow me to transport you to bizarro D&D, where a Republican DA is arrested for a DUI and stats calling for her buddies in the police department to bail her out and threatening officers with jail time and that's not considered corrupt. I don't know, if the guy was actually jailed for it, served his sentence, and agreed not to seek re-election? Its not really... corruption unless it actually helps, is it? Attempted corruption, maybe? It doesn't look like it helped the DA, anyway! I'm glad to see she got jail time, and honestly think she deserved more than she got, but I'm not even sure that trying and failing to abuse one's power is actually even illegal? She's a terrible human being, for sure, but... none of that is particularly relevant to whether Perry did anything wrong or illegal, and whether he deserves jail time as well. Perry's threat seems more like seizing that as a political opportunity to replace her with a crony than any sort of genuine concern about how terrible she is.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 19:49 |
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stinkles1112 posted:I don't think the (exceedingly obvious) corruption of the DA has any relevance to the situation with Perry though. The kind of cronyist corruption of trying to weasel your way out of a DUI by name dropping your friends in the PD and throwing around empty threats of jail time is a little more, I don't know, benign? than what Perry is doing which is pretty objectively an abuse of power. In my view it should have nothing to do with political party or consistency of prosecution or whatever, if politicians break the law we need to start nailing these fuckers. GlyphGryph posted:I don't know, if the guy was actually jailed for it, served his sentence, and agreed not to seek re-election? Its not really... corruption unless it actually helps, is it? Attempted corruption, maybe?
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 19:57 |
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Because without the bit where "favorable legislation comes out the other" you're going to have a hard time convincing people it's corruption, duh. I was referring, though, to the specific issue people are citing where she makes a whole bunch of threats that are not, actually, carried out, and issues a whole bunch of demands that were not, actually, met, and then she serves jail time for it. What is this weird loving thing where people think consequences, effects and outcomes don't actually matter? It seems to be a serious conservative problem, especially, where what Democrats try to do is so so SO much worse than what Republican's actually DO do. Where does this come from? No one here is defending the DA's right to break the law, to drive drunk OR to threaten people. I'm saying corruption is a hard challenge to bring when it doesn't actually work, but no one is denying that she definitely WANTED to abuse her position of power and authority to get away with breaking the law! She's pretty terrible, and probably should have been impeached in addition to the jailtime. Hell, if they could have brought charges against her for attempted abuse of power, it would be great. ReindeerF posted:It's inextricably linked with the case. It's 100% impossible to understand the facts of the case and say it has no relevance. He cited the situation in his call for her to step down.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:12 |
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GlyphGryph posted:I don't know, if the guy was actually jailed for it, served his sentence, and agreed not to seek re-election? Its not really... corruption unless it actually helps, is it? Attempted corruption, maybe? It doesn't look like it helped the DA, anyway! I'm glad to see she got jail time, and honestly think she deserved more than she got, but I'm not even sure that trying and failing to abuse one's power is actually even illegal? She's a terrible human being, for sure, but... none of that is particularly relevant to whether Perry did anything wrong or illegal, and whether he deserves jail time as well. R. Mute posted:I mean, it's possible she's corrupt, but I generally don't see the ramblings of a powerful drunk as evidence of anything.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:15 |
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quote:Sec. 36.03. COERCION OF PUBLIC SERVANT OR VOTER. Does Rick Perry's veto not meet this criteria? Or would the initial threat be the "action" in this case?
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:17 |
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GlyphGryph posted:What is this weird loving thing where people think consequences, effects and outcomes don't actually matter? GlyphGryph posted:So why does it matter? How, exactly, is it important? If you're going to make an argument, make it, don't just point at the obviously bad person and say "bad person!" and expect that to justify someone else doing something illegal, especially when the first person saw jail time for it! Thank ka!
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:19 |
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Omi-Polari posted:I think trying and failing to abuse one's power is still abuse of power. Trying and failing to bribe a police officer, for instance... Making a corrupt offer that's rejected is still a violation of the public trust. Whether the target of the bribe or offer reciprocates is immaterial to whether a crime or abuse of power was committed. There's probably something about issuing unlawful orders they can bring her up on at least? What the gently caress are you even trying to say? Do you even have a point, or are you just spewing nonsense out of boredom? Or do you really have THAT much trouble with the term "relevancy", because the things you are saying certainly don't seem relevant to the things I'm saying! GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Aug 16, 2014 |
# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:19 |
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Well in that case, Rick Perry just vetoed funding for a department he didn't like. Murder isn't murder and not wanting to fund something you don't want to fund is just not wanting to fund something you don't want to fund. Case closed.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:21 |
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Seems like a questionable indictment at best.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:21 |
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ReindeerF posted:Well in that case, Rick Perry just vetoed funding for a department he didn't like. Murder isn't murder and not wanting to fund something you don't want to fund is just not wanting to fund something you don't want to fund. Case closed. Are you aware that you say some really stupid loving poo poo and appear to have difficulty reading other people's posts and figuring out what they are saying and with the entire concept of one point being relevant to another point rather than just related? "Murder isn't murder" (did you stop reading at that point and miss the 'if no one dies' bit because it's pretty important) has jack poo poo to do with whether or not some behaviour is just some behaviour or a part of some larger illegal thing. But seriously, what is even your argument here? That Rick Perry should get away with stuff because the DA wasn't punished enough? Is that it? Or is it just to spew bullshit with me because I'm "carrying water" for someone I think should still be in jail, somehow, because I don't think the one particular charge you want levied against her would hold up in court? Man, what the hell. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Aug 16, 2014 |
# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:26 |
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It seems to me that the case of the DUI is irrelevant because abusing your power as governor is an illegal action in and of itself, regardless of whether he was illegally abusing his power to punish someone for themselves committing a crime, or because he didn't like their particular department, or because he didn't like her stupid face. It doesn't matter does it? Similar to how murdering someone for catching them raping your wife is still a crime, is attempting to coerce the resignation of a government employee by threatening to veto funding for their department a crime, or isn't it? (actual question, not just rhetorical)
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:30 |
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ReindeerF posted:How do you know what corruption does? I can't prove that the campaign donations of the Kochs buy favorable legislation, I only know that money goes in one end and favorable legislation comes out the other. It's not always exactly what they want, but does that mean it didn't work? As a corrupt Democrat, corruption is when you want something special and get caught getting it. You can ask for the county sherrif to come release you all you want, its only corrupt if he does and then you drop your investigations into his office.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:39 |
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stinkles1112 posted:is attempting to coerce the resignation of a government employee by threatening to veto funding for their department a crime, or isn't it? (actual question, not just rhetorical) Yeah this is the question that needs to be answered. Py-O-My posted:Sec. 36.03. COERCION OF PUBLIC SERVANT OR VOTER. that's literally what the DA who is responsible for the public integrity unit did. the public integrity unit. It's pretty obvious that Perry is a scumbag that tried to get rid of a political adversary. It's also obvious that Lehmberg is a scumbag that tried to use her position to get favorable treatment. No one wins, gently caress the system etc.
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# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:50 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:28 |
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There are several other points that are being missed: + Democrats allege Perry targeted the PIU because it was investigating other corrupt dealings involving Perry. + Perry has no authority over the PIU. + Perry probably won't serve any time in jail. This is a white-collar political crime and he will lawyer up and drag this out for years. + Perry has to submit to processing at the Travis County jail. This means we're getting a Rick Perry mugshot. (I hope.) But he'll be released under his own recognizance. Johnny Cache Hit posted:It's pretty obvious that Perry is a scumbag that tried to get rid of a political adversary. It's also obvious that Lehmberg is a scumbag that tried to use her position to get favorable treatment. No one wins, gently caress the system etc. BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Aug 16, 2014 |
# ? Aug 16, 2014 20:51 |