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Good Citizen posted:Social security is a bigger percentage of the budget than the department of defense. So is Medicare/medicaid While true, it always irks me when we frame things this way, yes it's a factual statement but the US government should be spending that proportion of it's money on the health and welfare of citizens. The American understanding always seems to implicitly accept that whatever is the biggest percentage of spending MUST be overspending and should be cut. No we just don't need to spend so drat much on war machines that will never be used.
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Aug 16, 2014 17:49
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RuanGacho posted:While true, it always irks me when we frame things this way, yes it's a factual statement but the US government should be spending that proportion of it's money on the health and welfare of citizens. The American understanding always seems to implicitly accept that whatever is the biggest percentage of spending MUST be overspending and should be cut. I agree. I think getting the numbers right is important, though. I remember reading some survey where they asked conservatives and liberals to guess at the budget percentages. Conservative vastly overestimated 'entitlement' spending and liberals vastly overestimated military spending. A number like 80% is just so far out there that it has no basis in reality. If people are just going to throw scary numbers out there then it's impossible to have a conversation.
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Aug 16, 2014 17:57
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icantfindaname posted:Well, that and desisting from screaming about niggers, sluts and faggots 24/7 in all parts of the media they control. Maybe they're trying to win over 4chan millenials.  Drudge has to have been super excited about the police coming down on the blacks, dude is racist as all get out. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 18:00
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Good Citizen posted:I agree. I think getting the numbers right is important, though. I remember reading some survey where they asked conservatives and liberals to guess at the budget percentages. Conservative vastly overestimated 'entitlement' spending and liberals vastly overestimated military spending. A number like 80% is just so far out there that it has no basis in reality. If people are just going to throw scary numbers out there then it's impossible to have a conversation. It's because people don't specify if they are talking about discretionary spending, non-discretionary spending, or both lumped together. War and defense spending constitutes roughly 60% of the discretionary budget.
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Aug 16, 2014 18:09
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RuanGacho posted:While true, it always irks me when we frame things this way, yes it's a factual statement but the US government should be spending that proportion of it's money on the health and welfare of citizens. The American understanding always seems to implicitly accept that whatever is the biggest percentage of spending MUST be overspending and should be cut. It could be confusion based on the difference between 'Mandatory' and 'Discretionary' spending. Military still isn't 80% of Discretionary, but it's a clear majority. And yeah, we drat well ought to spend more on healthcare than warfare, it's our nation's biggest problem and our most obvious track to a better future, arm-in-arm with education. It's not like our military actions from the last 40 years have produced consistently excellent outcomes. e: beaten M/D $, don't neglect your tabs, kids
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Aug 16, 2014 18:12
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KiteAuraan posted:I have no job because no one will hire me. I have student loan debt because I am trying to get a degree. Even if I had a job, the sort of places that would hire me would not pay me enough to move out. I cannot even have a job while going to school because of mental issues that keep me from doing both, so I get some disability, but it is nowhere near enough to buy a car or move out on. As a result of all of these things I cannot start a family. The reason I am in this spot is entirely due to Republican policies on wages and federal aid. And it's only going to get worse due to Republicans raising student loan interest rates, further putting me off buying a home, starting a family, owning a car and keeping me living with my parents. Meanwhile they are secretly thinking, "He's just not working hard enough."
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Aug 16, 2014 19:00
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Good Citizen posted:I agree. I think getting the numbers right is important, though. I remember reading some survey where they asked conservatives and liberals to guess at the budget percentages. Conservative vastly overestimated 'entitlement' spending and liberals vastly overestimated military spending. A number like 80% is just so far out there that it has no basis in reality. If people are just going to throw scary numbers out there then it's impossible to have a conversation. That's because liberals and conservatives are using different terms to talk about "the budget". When liberals give a high percentage for military spending they are looking at it as a percent of the discretionary budget. When conservatives are talking about high entitlement spending, they are factoring in a bunch of programs that are independently funded through their own revenue streams (payroll tax, etc) rather than from general funds. In terms of discretionary spending, military spending makes up the vast, vast majority. Topline figures, it's over half of the discretionary spending, and much of the "non-military" spending is stuff like the Veterans Administration, Department of Energy (who maintain the nuclear arsenal), debt incurred from fighting past wars, etc. The Nation rolled up a bunch of those costs and pinned military spending at about $931 billion total in 2013. That's about 80% of the discretionary budget for that year. That number does not include interest on past wars, defense-related NASA spending, or classified intelligence spending.  If you are talking about "the budget" as a monolithic thing where all Federal dollars are the same, you are buying into a conservative framing of the argument. Military expenditures are discretionary, they should be viewed as a percentage of discretionary funds, without factoring in the retirement fund Aunt Mabel is trusting you with holding. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 19:14
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I know Drudge has always been bad, but at this point it's basically caffeine-free diet Chimpout. All that it's missing are the "magic words" that according to conservatives are the only indicators of what's racist and what isn't. Sentimentally though, they're one and the same. The fact that they're not a fringe site but one of the biggest sources of mainstream conservative thought alongside Rush Limbaugh and Fox News is loving scary and depressing,.
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Aug 16, 2014 21:10
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Hazo posted:I personally know about a dozen people in your exact situation (and I've got my own similar issues), despite the fact that conservatives would almost certainly dismiss you as being "one of those who fell through the cracks." There's times when you'll get Joe Conservative to admit things are hosed and they'll even spout something that you, I and "LIEBERALS" would agree with. But they'll quickly back away from it when Rush and others say otherwise, then it's back to spouting talking points. Hell my dittohead father was arguing that we should be using money to update our energy policy, and help with the grid. Which was something I whole-heartily agreed with.
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Aug 16, 2014 22:02
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Haha that Battlefield story. The villain of this game is a racist redneck killer. The Tea Party is offended because he reminds them too much of themselves. The best part is when Beck describes a sequence where you sneak up on a man and choke him to death... and then says "imagine if a child played this". Except the objectionable part isn't the killing, it's the tea party flag on the murdered man's uniform. You can't make this stuff up.
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Aug 16, 2014 23:51
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I like this because it's like Mike Brown's ghost is flipping off everyone who reads the drudge report.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:39
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It's not like the Gadsden flag was in the news recently being draped over dead cops or anything.
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Aug 17, 2014 01:49
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Paul MaudDib posted:If you are talking about "the budget" as a monolithic thing where all Federal dollars are the same, you are buying into a conservative framing of the argument. Military expenditures are discretionary, they should be viewed as a percentage of discretionary funds, without factoring in the retirement fund Aunt Mabel is trusting you with holding. Yah, it was really misleading to put "budget" and "Social Security" together like that. Congress does not budget for Social Security. They don't hash out how much they will spend on that. Not only does it fund itself, but government borrows from it to cover the stuff in the actual budget. My favorite are the pie charts that shrink down military spending by not only including the stuff going out of the Social Security fund, but also add a slice for Debt Servicing, which is partly money going back into the SS fund.
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Aug 17, 2014 03:57
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7c Nickel posted:It's not like the Gadsden flag was in the news recently being draped over dead cops or anything. Yes but those were democrats doing the killing.
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Aug 17, 2014 04:03
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"Why don't the police shoot and kill these people who are taking things that will be paid for by a store's insurance policy?" I DON'T KNOW MAN WHY DON'T WE FIND OUT? Those poor loving TVs. Won't someone think of those poor, innocent televisions? What did they do to deserve this?
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Aug 17, 2014 04:12
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:"Why don't the police shoot and kill these people who are taking things that will be paid for by a store's insurance policy?" Reminder that a cornerstone of right wing views is 'property rights' in the sense that they view property as worth more than human life if that human life is stealing it.
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Aug 17, 2014 04:18
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Yah, it was really misleading to put "budget" and "Social Security" together like that. Congress does not budget for Social Security. They don't hash out how much they will spend on that. Not only does it fund itself, but government borrows from it to cover the stuff in the actual budget. I don't find it misleading but I guess I'm not a normal budget guy seeing as my profession is accounting. I can see it from both perspectives though. I put it like I did because the person I was responding to was talking about social security/welfare in the same point as military spending.
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Aug 17, 2014 04:33
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Headline Texas: Dumbest person to ever be elected to state office indicted on charges unrelated to his smart-person reading glasses. In other news: Jaywalker and his character summarily executed in Missouri for the crime of pedestrian values including but not limited to being in one place and trying to move to a different and adjacent place in realtime.
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Aug 17, 2014 08:51
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KiteAuraan posted:I have no job because no one will hire me. I have student loan debt because I am trying to get a degree. Even if I had a job, the sort of places that would hire me would not pay me enough to move out. I cannot even have a job while going to school because of mental issues that keep me from doing both, so I get some disability, but it is nowhere near enough to buy a car or move out on. As a result of all of these things I cannot start a family. The reason I am in this spot is entirely due to Republican policies on wages and federal aid. And it's only going to get worse due to Republicans raising student loan interest rates, further putting me off buying a home, starting a family, owning a car and keeping me living with my parents. And yet they keep claiming it's because of some moral failing on the part of millenials, like being less religious, the heathen music/media they consume, their support of women's health & gay rights, etc. No no, it's not failing republican policy that's to blame - it's clearly because millenials need to do more god-bothering. It's insulting to their intelligence, and I hope millenials don't ever forget this lesson being taught to them rather harshly.
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Aug 17, 2014 11:05
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Big Beef City posted:Mark Levin just played the entire "America the Beautiful" by Ray Charles to end his program, ending it with shouts of "GET ISIS! GET AL-QAEDA!" He does this literally every Friday, by the way. It's part of his way of constantly reinforcing "my black friend" along with playing some Motown for his bumpers. I wish I was kidding, but he really is that stupid about race issues. The funnier thing was that he blew a loving gasket over Rick Perry being indicted for trying to horse trade his veto power like a loving amateur. He kept leaving out the key piece of information that Rick Perry would have been able to appoint the replacement, and trying to spin it as "Rick Perry wouldn't have benefitted from her resignation in any way!" That's pretty brazen even by his low standards. A few days ago he also snapped on a conservative caller trying to make a "one of the good ones" argument that Levin usually would agree with. The guy said, "I'm sure we all know at least one immigrant who came here.." to which, loving douchebag racist rear end in a top hat, Mark Levin, replied, "I don't know about you, but I don't know any illegals. I don't think most people do." So clearly in Levin's head, "immigrant" = "illegal immigrant." Geee... I wonder why people think he's a huge loving xenophobe. He also took the purported Michael Brown video at face value, gave the benefit of the doubt to the cops via that speculation, then said people shouldn't be speculating and he wouldn't be taking any calls on it. He did that at the opening of his show Friday. On Thursday he told a black caller that he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to interacting with police as a black person. His constant "Where's the liberal media cricicizing <X>!" has gotten a lot more hilarious because quite frequently recently <X> is a topic that Rachel Maddow criticized literally the night before. This has been your update on the inner workings of the mind of Mark Levin. I wish I could quit listening to his loving show. ErIog fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 12:51
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My father handed me an op-ed from someone writing about the struggles of why Youth cannot find jobs. The author is the CEO of CKE, Andrew Puzder, so I was curious if anyone could kind of help me critique it.quote:President Obama's speeches this year, a steady theme has been creating jobs and economic opportunity for Americans. In his State of the Union address in January he said that "what I believe unites the people of this nation . . . is the simple, profound belief in opportunity for all—the notion that if you work hard and take responsibility, you can get ahead." And in his weekly address on Saturday, he repeated his strong appeal to young people: "As long as I hold this office, I'll keep fighting to give more young people the chance to earn their own piece of the American Dream." http://online.wsj.com/articles/andrew-puzder-why-young-people-cant-find-work-1402355248 TL;DR It's Obama's fault, it's Obamacare's fault, blame Obama. Also raising the minimum wage is a bad idea because the only people that take minimum wage jobs are young kids looking for "opportunities". It cannot literally be the simple, correct? That's all my father does is blame Obama, and it seems like the economics of the whole thing seem way more advanced than that.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:27
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Spacedad posted:It's insulting to their intelligence, and I hope millenials don't ever forget this lesson being taught to them rather harshly.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:37
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FuzzySkinner posted:My father handed me an op-ed from someone writing about the struggles of why Youth cannot find jobs. The author is the CEO of CKE, Andrew Puzder, so I was curious if anyone could kind of help me critique it. He's way out of touch. He talks about how he used minimum wage jobs to pay for schooling and support his family without realizing that is literally impossible these days with rising tuition and housing costs. He shows a basic understanding of marginal cost/benefit of hiring employees, but focuses entirely on costs. You get more benefit when there's more demand and you need additional employees to service that demand which is a huge issue today because a whole generation doesn't have disposable income. Raising the minimum wage doesn't address a lot of these problems, but it sure as poo poo doesn't hurt. And he's right that the employer mandate in the ACA is deeply flawed but with the mere mention of a public option sending a third of the country into an frothy rage, well, we got what we loving got.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:40
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FuzzySkinner posted:My father handed me an op-ed from someone writing about the struggles of why Youth cannot find jobs. The author is the CEO of CKE, Andrew Puzder, so I was curious if anyone could kind of help me critique it. Labor is not as big a portion of the cost of things as they seem to think, and employers for the most part pay the smallest amount they can get away with, without any particular consideration for the actual value the employees create with their labor, and in some cases without any regard for what's actually legal. I don't think all companies are bad or anything like that, but a lot of them do operate on a literally sociopathic principle of pursuing profit above all else. People like to frame this whole thing as a failure on the part of workers. If you're in a minimum-wage job you didn't get educated or aren't trying hard enough. But there's no denying that employers have to some degree failed America. They are voluntarily putting less money into the economy to boost their own profits.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:48
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quote:I'm not speaking primarily as a business CEO. My company will adjust to new laws. I'm speaking as someone from a working-class family. I started work scooping ice cream for the minimum wage at Baskin-Robbins. To put myself through college and law school while supporting my family, I cut lawns, painted houses and busted concrete with a jackhammer. I know how important these jobs are. For one thing, they taught me—as no lectures from my parents ever could—that I needed a good education so I wouldn't have to settle for low-paying work the rest of my life. Too many young people today are being deprived of even that basic lesson. Andrew Puzder was born in 1953. Graduated law school in 1978. Assuming he started work at 16, minimum wage was as follows: 1969: $1.30 1970: $1.45 1971: $1.60 1972: $1.60 1973: $1.60 1974: $1.90 1975: $2.00 1976: $2.20 1977: $2.30 1978: $2.65 Adjusted for inflation: 1969: $8.44 1970: $8.91 1971: $9.42 1972: $9.12 1973: $8.59 1974: $9.19 1975: $8.86 1976: $9.22 1977: $9.05 1978: $9.69 2014 Federal Minimum Wage: $7.25
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Aug 17, 2014 19:50
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Good Citizen posted:He's way out of touch. He talks about how he used minimum wage jobs to pay for schooling and support his family without realizing that is literally impossible these days with rising tuition and housing costs. He shows a basic understanding of marginal cost/benefit of hiring employees, but focuses entirely on costs. You get more benefit when there's more demand and you need additional employees to service that demand which is a huge issue today because a whole generation doesn't have disposable income. Raising the minimum wage doesn't address a lot of these problems, but it sure as poo poo doesn't hurt. I also believe that if we're going to blame Obama for any of this, how come the republican policies of the past 50 or so years get off scot free? It was the baby boomers and their deregulation of pretty much everything, and refusal to carry on the "We're all in this together"-attitude by their beloved "Greatest Generation" that really led to this point. I mean feel free to blame Obama in the mean time, but they shouldn't pretend that this was all of his doing.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:52
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Andrew Puzder was born in 1953. Graduated law school in 1978. Taking this a step further, let's look at the cost of a college education in 1978 vs 2007 (the statistics I pulled from national center for education statistics). 1978: $7,667 (inflation adjusted) 2007: $15,434 Those statistics have changed for the worse since then, too, but those were the most reliable numbers I was able to quickly pull up. People these days are easily paying more than twice what he paid for his schooling with an even lower minimum wage. Basically, millenials are getting hosed and he either doesn't realize it or doesn't care.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:00
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FuzzySkinner posted:It's Obama's fault, it's Obamacare's fault, blame Obama. Also raising the minimum wage is a bad idea because the only people that take minimum wage jobs are young kids looking for "opportunities". Well, start from a privileged position and work down. The productivity/wage gap is more than a generation old, and it keeps rising. It isn't unheard-of for HR types to request five years of experience in a three-year-old programming language or software suite. If the people controlling the hiring process don't even have a grasp on timelines in this reality, then the people controlling the people controlling that are incompetent - right? Anyone who exclusively wants to hire time-travelers is mentally ill. Inflation-adjusted, minimum wage ought to be $11, and that doesn't factor in mobile communication or internet stuff. And when neglected communities try to fix their own problems in that dimension, they're often shut down by anti-regulation zealots. College subsidies have plummeted, and internships are 50% unpaid at this point. How are we equally equipped to prosper when half of us that get through higher-ed have to pass a wealth test disguised as corporate approved volunteerism, after already chipping in more than our parents did for the core college experience? When your executives are paid multiple orders of magnitude above new hires, it's easier for them to see workers as robots rather than people, and the labor pool as I/O ratios rather than Ahmed who has a girlfriend and would love to settle down and buy a condo. And the idea that businesses are entitled to abuse labor to the extent that they'll give pointers on getting employees to personally obtain government subsidies to stay stably employed, it's dumb and clearly the result of minimum wage being too low. If you want a worker to stay on board, you should give them adequate money from your own purse instead of coaching them to take it from the public purse.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:04
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My dad literally blames Obama for that too. He claims that when he went to college and got to pay off his student loans he had a lot of banks to choose from or something of that nature.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:05
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Apparently judging by facebook the new right-wing media rage is Obama not attending the funeral of that general who died http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168636-guess-president-vice-president-2-star-general-laid-rest/ Maybe the family didn't want someone to attend who'd require a 2 dozen person armed escort with them? idk
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Aug 17, 2014 20:11
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quote:I'm not speaking primarily as a business CEO. My company will adjust to new laws. I'm speaking as someone from a working-class family. I started work scooping ice cream for the minimum wage at Baskin-Robbins. To put myself through college and law school while supporting my family, I cut lawns, painted houses and busted concrete with a jackhammer. I know how important these jobs are. For one thing, they taught me—as no lectures from my parents ever could—that I needed a good education so I wouldn't have to settle for low-paying work the rest of my life. Too many young people today are being deprived of even that basic lesson. I mean what the gently caress is he even talking about, the lazy millennial stereotype is someone who got a good education so they wouldn't have to settle for low-paying work for the rest of their lives. Those people are now $100k in debt and either unemployed or working jobs they could've gotten right out of highschool.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:11
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FuzzySkinner posted:My dad literally blames Obama for that too. It's not banks, though. Interest rates are actually pretty great right now. The increase in college tuition is almost entirely due to declines in state funding for higher education. It's not really a debatable point because the data is so clear.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:11
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Andy went to law school too, didn't he? Doesn't he hear about how so many fresh law degree holders are working as baristas in Starbucks after a few years working for a firm if that—oh, who am I kidding, of course he hasn't.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:13
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ErIog posted:The funnier thing was that he blew a loving gasket over Rick Perry being indicted for trying to horse trade his veto power like a loving amateur. He kept leaving out the key piece of information that Rick Perry would have been able to appoint the replacement, and trying to spin it as "Rick Perry wouldn't have benefitted from her resignation in any way!" That's pretty brazen even by his low standards. 
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Aug 17, 2014 20:35
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Tender Bender posted:I mean what the gently caress is he even talking about, the lazy millennial stereotype is someone who got a good education so they wouldn't have to settle for low-paying work for the rest of their lives. Those people are now $100k in debt and either unemployed or working jobs they could've gotten right out of highschool. The gently caress is this guy talking about busting concrete with a jackhammer can get you good money.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:43
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FuzzySkinner posted:My father handed me an op-ed from someone writing about the struggles of why Youth cannot find jobs. The author is the CEO of CKE, Andrew Puzder, so I was curious if anyone could kind of help me critique it. I stopped reading right here quote:The bottom line on labor: Make something less expensive and businesses will use more of it. Make something more expensive and businesses will use less of it. Because it's the same horseshit you always see trotted out by these types. Praise the almighty market when it benefits you, pretend the demand side of the equation doesn't exist when it doesn't back you up. Businesses will use the minimum amount of whatever resource is required to satisfy demand for their product. No one is going to hire a bunch of additional workers just because they're now slightly cheaper unless those workers were actually needed. Decreasing marginal utility and such. Throwing more workers, even significantly cheaper ones, into the mix doesn't necessarily add to the value of total output. If I could hire an unlimited number of full time maids for one cent an hour with no benefits, I'd still only hire one. Having two isn't going to make my house any cleaner. Sure, I could have more, its only 8¢/day each, but why?
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Aug 17, 2014 20:52
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Tender Bender posted:I mean what the gently caress is he even talking about, the lazy millennial stereotype is someone who got a good education so they wouldn't have to settle for low-paying work for the rest of their lives. Those people are now $100k in debt and either unemployed or working jobs they could've gotten right out of highschool. The lesson I got from doing these jobs was to show people a lot more respect in the service industry because you never know if that person could be in the exact same position you've been in or you could be in a number of years. I didn't get the feeling of "Oh man, I better stay in school because these jobs suck", but more so the feeling of "These jobs are terrible sometimes, and the people working here should be paid a hell of a lot more." I worked with a mix of retirees, divorcees, former factory workers, and the aforementioned students at those jobs by the way. It doesn't seem to remotely fit his stereotype.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:03
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FuzzySkinner posted:My father handed me an op-ed from someone writing about the struggles of why Youth cannot find jobs. The author is the CEO of CKE, Andrew Puzder, so I was curious if anyone could kind of help me critique it. Another thing to point out as flawed is this; quote:The bottom line on labor: Make something less expensive and businesses will use more of it. Make something more expensive and businesses will use less of it. This "bottom line" is broken, and so is the rest of his argument. Actually had to explain something like this to an in-law who was on the other end of the political spectrum, as "why doesn't Home Depot just hire more people?" Even if labor is dirt cheap, a business won't hire more than it needs. If minimum wage was dropped to $1/hr, McDonalds wouldn't just up and hire 200 more people and cramming a dozen workers in front of a grill that can be easily operated by 1 person. If a raw material gets really cheap, they will only buy and stock up on so much, especially if the cost of storing the excess cuts into the savings of buying in bulk for cheap. If the cost of burger buns was cut in half, McDonalds won't just immediately start buying twice as many. They'll buy enough to cover demand, so unless demand doubles they'll just pocket the profit from cheaper buns. This is one of those Econ 101 bits that proves "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing".
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Aug 17, 2014 21:07
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Amused to Death posted:Apparently judging by facebook the new right-wing media rage is Obama not attending the funeral of that general who died What is IJReview? That's the second article today from that site I've seen cited. Did it just start?
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Aug 17, 2014 21:34
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radical meme posted:What is IJReview? That's the second article today from that site I've seen cited. Did it just start? The last time I remember seeing that site (Independent Journal Review, which is basically a conservative version of Upworthy, and yes it is as bad as it sounds) was in early May, when some jerkoff was fellating Tal Fortgang for his "why I'll never apologize for my white male privilege" article in Princeton's newspaper and Time. The title was ridiculous too (as expected for a Buzzfeed/Upworthy knockoff); something like "Freshman Shames Ivy League College Over Privilege Shouting" or something.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:40
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