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##support Patrician Philosopher Cause you know, the other dude seems to just want to put a different family on the throne and we'd end up right back where we started, except w/ more blood.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:32
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##support Patrician Philosopher
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Aug 19, 2014 17:35
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Actually, thinking on it for a bit I'm going to have to change my vote to ##support Patrician Philosopher
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Aug 19, 2014 17:36
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Arbitrary Coin posted:##support Patrician Philosopher Cause you know, the other dude seems to just want to put a different family on the throne and we'd end up right back where we started, except w/ more blood. As opposed to keeping the same family on the throne and hoping for the best?
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Aug 19, 2014 17:37
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May I just point out that the Turkish chappy is a banker? If anyone needs less support from the huddled masses, it's bankers.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:38
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sniper4625 posted:As opposed to keeping the same family on the throne and hoping for the best? Nothing about option B guarantees there will even be a throne.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:38
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Support the Patrician Philosopher. She's a good woman, she deserves no less.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:38
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sniper4625 posted:As opposed to keeping the same family on the throne and hoping for the best? One word. Branas.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:39
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##support Patrician Philosopher What Rome needs is stability to find our footing, not chaos.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:39
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##Support the Patrician Philosopher LOOK at that ruffled collar!
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Aug 19, 2014 17:39
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## Support the Patrician Philosopher
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Aug 19, 2014 17:39
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Ghostwoods posted:May I just point out that the Turkish chappy is a banker? If anyone needs less support from the huddled masses, it's bankers. As opposed to a Patrician Noble? sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 17:41
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Ghostwoods posted:May I just point out that the Turkish chappy is a banker? If anyone needs less support from the huddled masses, it's bankers. you're right. can we kill them both
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Aug 19, 2014 17:41
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sniper4625 posted:B is the safe option. B is the choice for the status quo with the minimum needed adjustments to make it viable. A is the run around aimlessly option, ending with someone like Me in charge.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:43
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sniper4625 posted:B is the safe option. B is the choice for the status quo with the minimum needed adjustments to make it viable. I'm pretty convinced that this vote is about nothing more than whether we will inaugurate the revolution with regicide. Regicides tend to have negative short term ramifications in these situations. Plus keeping her alive leaves open the possibility of a more dramatic regicide later!
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Aug 19, 2014 17:44
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AJ_Impy posted:A is the run around aimlessly option, ending with someone like Me in charge. Honestly, given the performance of the past few Emperors/Empresses, would that really be a bad thing? GunnerJ posted:I'm pretty convinced that this vote is about nothing more than whether we will inaugurate the revolution with regicide. Regicides tend to have negative short term ramifications in these situations. Plus keeping her alive leaves open the possibility of a more dramatic regicide later! Hmmm, between a public guillotining and putting a matchlock pistol to her and her family's head in a basement somewhere before dumping her bones in a mine, I think I'd prefer the former.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:44
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Skyfinder posted:Hmmm, between a public guillotining and putting a matchlock pistol to her and her family's head in a basement somewhere before dumping her bones in a mine, I think I'd prefer the former. Well, so would I, which is why I don't support getting rid of her now. 
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Aug 19, 2014 17:47
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Whoops, overwrote my post. Stupid iPad app. Anyway, do you really expect a Patrician to be in favor of anything that threatens the status quo? Make no mistake, choosing B will result in the status quo in all but name, with a few trinkets thrown to the mob to quiet them. For a true revolution, how can the choice be anything other than A?
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Aug 19, 2014 17:48
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GunnerJ posted:Well, so would I, which is why I don't support getting rid of her now. No, I mean I prefer going French Revolution on her now rather than Russian Revolution on her later.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:48
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##Support the Patrician Philosopher I'm not too keen on starting things off with an angry mob beating a woman to death. Especially after the numerous angry mobs called 'armies' that have been through the city lately. Now would be a pretty good time for abdication, though. ZiegeDame fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 17:48
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Skyfinder posted:No, I mean I prefer going French Revolution on her now rather than Russian Revolution on her later. The French Revolution kept the king around as a constitutional monarch until he tried to defect to foreign courts, at which point it executed him for treason. So...
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Aug 19, 2014 17:51
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sniper4625 posted:For a true revolution, how can the choice be anything other than A? Largely because A does not give a single gently caress if a "true revolution" happens, and is explicitly content with a possible new monarch or dictator.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:52
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Hey Rince, is this literally just a vote on whether we kill Hypatia or not? Cause if it is, I don't really care, but if it's more along the lines of what I've been saying (revolution versus minor appeasement), I'll keep making posts.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:53
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GunnerJ posted:Largely because A does not give a single gently caress if a "true revolution" happens, and is explicitly content with a possible new monarch or dictator. As opposed to B, which guarantees us the same monarch with a fresher cost of paint. At least with A there is the chance for true change, and I have no doubt that should we select A, we'll be able to guide what comes next.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:54
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GunnerJ posted:Largely because A does not give a single gently caress if a "true revolution" happens, and is explicitly content with a possible new monarch or dictator. And B, with keeping the same old monarch who's family has pretty much ruined Rome is any better? At least with A there's some sort of chance at a meaningful change. Edit: Got beat to it, but the point still stands.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:55
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sniper4625 posted:As opposed to B, which guarantees us the same monarch with a fresher cost of paint. Nope, the scope of the change in the nature of the state and her role in it which B suggests is not clear enough to say this for sure.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:55
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##Support the Patrician Philosopher because the masses can afford to compete with words and manpower, but can't afford to compete with gold.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:57
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GunnerJ posted:Nope, the scope of the change in the nature of the state and her role in it which B suggests is not clear enough to say this for sure. Why should we trust a noble and/or Queen to embrace political reform once this crisis has passed. If we allow ourselves to be lulled into complacency with honied words, will we get another chance for revolution? Not anytime soon.
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Aug 19, 2014 17:57
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I'd be happy with a constitutional monarchy, to be honest. Kinda what I'm holding out for with my vote, personally.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:00
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It's pretty clear which way the vote is going. I only hope that whether out of misguided mercy or naive hope, this mob has not condemned the nation to another century of suffering. (Also it's kind of weird to blow up the status quo then pretty much vote to restore most of it, but oh well. Hasta la Victoria Siempre!)
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Aug 19, 2014 18:01
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sniper4625 posted:Why should we trust a noble and/or Queen to embrace political reform once this crisis has passed. If we allow ourselves to be lulled into complacency with honied words, will we get another chance for revolution? Not anytime soon. Oh, we shouldn't trust her at all. In my original post about this, I was being hells of sarcastic about how reasonable it is to expect her to peaceably go along with all the changes. Like Citizen Capet, she might play along for a while, and then do something more interesting later. I am comfortable with this possibility. All I am trying to establish here is that there is no certainty regarding what form of government comes next based on this vote, given what is actually being suggested. And there's also no certainty that she'll be killed right now if we vote A, but "Storm the dais" is a pretty unambiguously aggressive move, and "What has she done wrong?" is a pretty clear plea for clemency, not for the preservation of her position but her life.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:03
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Sniper, I've never been against the Empress or the monarchy. Discordianism is a rejection of all the trappings and institutional rot that has accumulated to the state for the hundreds, no, thousands of years it's been in existence. Tear down it all and restore a purer relationship between the Empress, our glorious mother, and us, her devoted children. No Senate telling the Empress what to do, no aristocrats lording over the peasants and blocking their connection with the Empress. I want us to be a family again.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:04
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GunnerJ posted:Oh, we shouldn't trust her at all. In my original post about this, I was being hells of sarcastic about how reasonable it is to expect her to peaceably go along with all the changes. Like Citizen Capet, she might play along for a while, and then do something more interesting later. I am comfortable with this possibility. Yeah, I'm also pretty confused about what exactly this vote entails, hence my question to Rince. I'd really like to know if it's just a vote to kill Hypatia or whatever, or if it has more lasting consequences. Id imagine the latter, but lots of people seem to be voting baed on the former. If we go the French route, that'd be fine by me. What I'm against is keeping everything the same with a few tweaks, as seems to be suggested by B. Again, a question for Rince. As for what she's done wrong - see the last update. War after lost war, tens of thousands of dead, etc, etc, etc. Personally I'm not aiming for her death now, but after a duly assembled revolutionary tribunal. Should she be found guilty, of course. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it all plays out. Also Patter, I dunno where you're getting "devoted children" from. After the last 60 years, the Emperor/resses are probably loathed in all corners of the land. If they hate the Senste enough to breach us with a cannon, I'd imagine they'd have no compunctions about toppling the Empress either. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 18:09
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##support the turkish bank baron
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Aug 19, 2014 18:09
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sniper4625 posted:As for what she's done wrong - see the last update. War after lost war, tens of thousands of dead, etc, etc, etc. Personally I'm not aiming for her death now, but after a duly assembled revolutionary tribunal. Should she be found guilty, of course. On what charges? What offense has our empress committed that isn't attributable to the incompetence of her generals (who should be the target of your complaints, if anyone).
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Aug 19, 2014 18:11
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##Support the Patrician Philosopher
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Aug 19, 2014 18:12
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If we want to go by historical precident, the English Civil War is proberbly a better model to look at than the French revolution (nearer to time period aswell) And then, it took 2 civil wars and the Kings absolute refusal to give up any athority in negoiations which led to him being executed for treason. Diplomatically, most of europe had got over it and had cordial relations with the Commonwealth by the time of Cromwells death, so not much to fear on that front.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:14
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sniper4625 posted:Yeah, I'm also pretty confused about what exactly this vote entails, hence my question to Rince. I'd really like to know if it's just a vote to kill Hypatia or whatever, or if it has more lasting consequences. Id imagine the latter, but lots of people seem to be voting baed on the former. While I'd also like some clarification here, it's possible that we're not getting any to emulate the uncertainty and chaos of the moment, which is why I've tried to interpret the text of the proposals. I suspect that a living (former?) empress will have a degree of sway over how deliberations go. For me this is balanced by how simplistically ~cHaOtIc~ option A seems to approach things. quote:If we go the French route, that'd be fine by me. What I'm against is keeping everything the same with a few tweaks, as seems to be suggested by B. Again, a question for Rince. I wasn't saying she'd done nothing wrong, I was just offering my interpretation of what such a plea implies. Thinking it over, yes, some form of review of her performance is probably in order! And I also don't want "keeping everything the same with a few tweaks" but I don't even know how possible this is in a Discordian victory. It seems like this is the first of several votes that will guide the process.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:15
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moderates. fair-weather discordians, the lot of you!
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Aug 19, 2014 18:16
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nothing to seehere posted:If we want to go by historical precident, the English Civil War is proberbly a better model to look at than the French revolution (nearer to time period aswell) And then, it took 2 civil wars and the Kings absolute refusal to give up any athority in negoiations which led to him being executed for treason. Diplomatically, most of europe had got over it and had cordial relations with the Commonwealth by the time of Cromwells death, so not much to fear on that front. Much as I love the French Revolution as a topic in history, I have also thought for a while that the English Civil War is more appropriate as a model. I just know a hell of a lot less about it.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:17
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