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Support them all to the gallows! But since I have to pick a side I'll ##Support the ...  .... Patrician Philosopher
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Aug 19, 2014 22:04
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 01:37 |
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist, hail Zeus.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:05
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I'm still erring on the side of not explaining things straightforwardly here, since that's the whole gimmick, but since Republicanism is such a hot-button issue I'll say three things: 1.) Remember that like three seconds ago this won the vote: quote:Has Hypatia II not suffered alongside her people? Has she not sacrificed so much to prevent the fall of our empire? Her role must change-- she must change-- the state she presides over must change. But blame cannot be laid at her feet alone. 2.) On the other hand, all three of these options will lead to the possibility of becoming a Republic later in the game. (EDIT: Assuming we emerge from the crisis and have the luxury of thinking about political theory) The issue isn't dead forever. 3.) No matter what happens, I'd never subject the people reading this thread to goons writing a detailed constitution for pages and pages, so don't worry about that. 
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Aug 19, 2014 22:05
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## Support the Scholarly Civil Servant. The Great Ming Empire has not abolished its monarchy, I don't see why people are saying Democratic Republic about it. The Celestial Empire is a relationship between Heaven, the Empress, and Man, with the Empress having responsibilities both up and down. As the Ming have now made clear, if the Empress doesn't fulfill her obligations in both directions, removing her and replacing her with someone who does is an acceptable course of action for both Heaven and the People. A simple, civilized government form that will hopefully civilize the Roman people and state along with it.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:07
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Ghetto Prince posted:Support them all to the gallows! You don't have to. I'm fine with your gallows idea, for the crime of thinking too small and offering too little. None of the above, because they aren't worth it.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:08
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  I'm not thrilled with any of the options, but I will ##Support the Patrician Philosopher as she seems the least foolish.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:13
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:
You don't have to vote for what you don't like.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:14
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By the way, here is another demonstration of how quickly the current hole Rome is in can be turned around. This was with the none-fixed version of the mod, so Celestial empire is still insane. Only main issue I had was with Hungary+Crimea attacking me at the start, once I'd paid them off it was clear sailing and jumping on Da Qin/Italy whenever there was a chance. 
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Aug 19, 2014 22:15
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Between all these people testing the save and my own tests with the Celestial Empire fix mod, I feel like I'm going to be able to use a pretty light hand modding the government. So that's nice.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:18
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##Support the Moustachioed Monarchist I am tired of unseen foreigners from terra incognito showing up and wrecking our lands. The Scottish have the right idea, let US be the foreigners showing up where we are unknown and wrecking other peoples stuff!
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Aug 19, 2014 22:19
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant
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Aug 19, 2014 22:20
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You know what really makes me happy? The survivability of Transoxania. 
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Aug 19, 2014 22:21
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NewMars posted:You know what really makes me happy? The survivability of Transoxania. It makes awful borders though, Yilang is split in two, and one section of it is a snake.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:25
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I somehow didn't notice until now that Poland managed to migrate exactly one country to the left.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:25
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist
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Aug 19, 2014 22:26
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AJ_Impy posted:You don't have to vote for what you don't like. I'm actually honestly pretty happy with the Patrician's idea of making our own way, I just can't get real pumped about it because it has absolutely no specification of what that way is. But I'd prefer doing anything on our own terms over kissing Chinese rear end like so many senators are lining up to do, or aping the ancients from a time so far past as to be completely inapplicable to our own situation, or whatever the hell Mr. Mustaches is yammering about.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:26
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Sindai posted:I somehow didn't notice until now that Poland managed to migrate exactly one country to the left. Huh. As in our world, so in this.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:29
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The foreigners from the East first nearly lead to the downfall of our great Empire and now people openly advocate emulating them? I spit on this betrayal of our heritage, let us instead take what is good from our past and make better what was not. We have overcome the crippling weakness of city state rivalries, we have overcome the incursions of the Latins and taught them proper culture, we have overcome the menace of the doux, let us now overcome the aggression from the east. ##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist
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Aug 19, 2014 22:33
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## Support the Scholarly Civil Servant
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Aug 19, 2014 22:38
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:I'm actually honestly pretty happy with the Patrician's idea of making our own way, I just can't get real pumped about it because it has absolutely no specification of what that way is. I think I would change my vote to A if "neo-New Byzantines" had any clear meaning, I don't remember what the New Byzantines were really about anymore. Too bad I have to make due with what we have, and what we have is one person clearly advocating constitutional and representative government.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:38
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 All of you must be wondering what to pick, or second guessing your own choices. I tell you, there is one best option: Neo-Classicism! Why has Rome been defeated? Her people are not united! Why do we lag behind? Our people trudge behind the Ming! Why do our rulers fail us, time and time again? They do not dream great dreams! Neo-Classicism, nay, Neo-Hellenism will fix all that! It must be, first and foremost, the resurrection of Alexander's dream of a world united by Hellenic culture! We will begin with our own provinces, but fret not, Inclusionists, the process is not genocide. No, it is the simple creation of an umbrella high culture for all to aspire to, adapting the best from every culture encountered, even as Alexander himself did in Persia. Neo-Hellenism is the rebirth of truly innovative scholarship, unbound to anything but the mind! The Church will let go, any language is permissible, as long as we move forward! And the last great problem: our rulers. What do they want? Can they accomplish it? No, they cannot even maintain their own provinces! Our rulers have no dreams, no aspirations, no ambition! That must change! Each emperor must become an Alexander, an Augustus! They must be ready to face the world, spit in its face, and declare our greatness! We are the heirs of Alexander! Let us show the world!
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Aug 19, 2014 22:39
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##support the nostalgic neo-classicist. open the blood gates. hail zeus.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:42
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist Hail Eris!
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Aug 19, 2014 22:45
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Also another point, We are really behind in admin tech at the moment. Like, 5 techs behind. I don't know why this is, no high-admin rulers, rincewind trying to keep us a stability 3, but we haven't exactly cored much.
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Aug 19, 2014 22:53
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Ghostwoods posted:##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist this too. as long as it ain't no "hey-sus".
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Aug 19, 2014 22:54
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##Support the Nostalgic Neo-classicist We've been trying to look forward for generations, now. Perhaps Unitas is right and it really is time to look backward.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:00
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##Support the scholarly civil servant. Constitutions are nice.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:01
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Chwoka posted:this too. as long as it ain't no "hey-sus". Yes, because Hellenism will do wonders for our relations with literally every other nation in Europe. Please, another Deluge or two. Maybe if we're lucky we'll end up with Shamanism as the State Religion by then.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:03
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I mean the classicist has the advantage of acknowledging the invention of democracy as a good thing. It's just a tiny little shout out, so I'm not sure how big a deal it would be.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:10
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Rincewind posted:I'm still erring on the side of not explaining things straightforwardly here, since that's the whole gimmick, but since Republicanism is such a hot-button issue I'll say three things: I told you all that supporting B meant betraying the revolution! The status quo maintained in all but names! I shall as such vote for none of the above, unless my vote would favorably affect the Neo-classicist. The best of a bad lot. (Still the peasant, Senator Sniper would strongly support the Neo-Classicist, and encourages all Unitas supporters to do the same. He has some ideas for the future, oh yes he does.)
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Aug 19, 2014 23:11
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##Support the Scholarly Civil Servant eh. best of the bad options, I suppose.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:12
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sniper4625 posted:I told you all that supporting B meant betraying the revolution! The status quo maintained in all but names! i can't believe i'm actually on the same side of an issue as sniper
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Aug 19, 2014 23:13
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##Support the Patrician Philosopher I am happy so long as the Empress is safe. I must admit, I have grown fond of her and the 20 years of stability she offered us in a completely different timeline from ours. Though not the best one, Imperator Seehere managed to destroy the Pope in that timeline.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:13
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GunnerJ posted:I mean the classicist has the advantage of acknowledging the invention of democracy as a good thing. It's just a tiny little shout out, so I'm not sure how big a deal it would be. The classicist is advocating the return to more traditional "Greek" roots, discarding that which is Roman. I do not believe she is the one saying we should break up the Empire, become City-States again, and start making sacrifices to old, obsolete gods and make us the laughing stock of Europe. Some people, on the other hand, seem to take it that way.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:16
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Chwoka posted:i can't believe i'm actually on the same side of an issue as sniper The feeling is mutually, oddly enough. Revolutions make for strange bedfellows.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:17
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StrifeHira posted:The classicist is advocating the return to more traditional "Greek" roots, discarding that which is Roman. I do not believe she is the one saying we should break up the Empire, become City-States again, and start making sacrifices to old, obsolete gods and make us the laughing stock of Europe. Trouble is, we don't know what she intends because we're all in a swirling whirlpool of chaos. Isn't it fun. Actually going back to how things were in that era is entirely possible.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:19
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sniper4625 posted:I told you all that supporting B meant betraying the revolution! The status quo maintained in all but names! Yeah you were mostly right about this one, I'll admit it. I mean I don't buy that it's literally the status quo with a paint change, but it's still monarchy. I worried that the last vote could influence the range of options but I really disliked A for narrative reasons. Guess it's the scenic route to a republic for us.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:20
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As much as I hate all the options, I hate the Ming more. ##Neo-Classicist And I encourage all non Mingophiles to unite behind this option. Let us pull from our own heritage, not that of our most hated enemies!
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Aug 19, 2014 23:23
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The only thing holding me back from supporting the neo-classicist at this point is that we'd for sure lose the Roman aesthetic and gently caress that.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:27
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Hell, if the Scholarly Civil Servant wins and we get a constitutional monarchy (not saying that will automatically happen) we don't even need to become a republic, we can just reform slowly over the years.
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Aug 19, 2014 23:30
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