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Could a dhampir end up becoming some other type of supernatural thing like a hunter or mage?
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Aug 14, 2014 20:23
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xanthan posted:Could a dhampir end up becoming some other type of supernatural thing like a hunter or mage? Not sure. I can't remember anything that barred dhampir in particular from becoming another form of supernatural, but WW hated crossing the streams so they might be.
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Aug 14, 2014 20:40
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citybeatnik posted:A dhampir. That's unclear canonically. Time of Thin Blood, Page 31 posted:Can a 15th-generation male vampire impregnate a 15th-generation female vampire? Intuition says that this can’t happen — a pregnancy should require a spark of genuine life. Then again, there’s something wonderfully weird (or disgusting, or horrific, depending on one’s point of view) about two vampires having a baby. This possibility is left to the discretion of individual Storytellers. xanthan posted:Could a dhampir end up becoming some other type of supernatural thing like a hunter or mage? Canonical answer is no: Time of Thin Blood Page 83 posted:Eventually, someone is bound to ask whether a dhampir could Awaken as a True Mage. Or also be Garou Kinfolk and learn Rites. Or become a Mummy. And so on, and so on, and so on. Realistically, though, Dhampirs are just ghouls that make their own crappy vitae. There's nothing stopping true mages or kinfolk from being ghouls, although it would be incredibly unlikely.
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Aug 14, 2014 20:49
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ulmont posted:That's unclear canonically. There's already a canon mechanic that would STRONGLY inhibit a dhampir from Awakening. Backstory: to fuel their Magick (outside of some passive sensory effects) Mages need the power of creation/reality: they call it Quintessence. If you have Prime 2 you can leach ambient Quintessence and thus power sendings for "Free." Lacking that (or if you need a lot of power in a hurry) you need to store up quintessence to use when needed (stored usable Quint is called Tass)--and it can be a bit tricky to come by in usable form (again, especially if you're not very versed in the Prime sphere). As luck would have it, a vampire blood point equals one unit of tass--one unit of quintessence. Add that plus the other normal benefits of being Ghouled and its a very heady temptation to any mage who realizes the potential of the red stuff. But its also highly addictive--and not just for the Mage. The Mage's Avatar can also get addicted, and once that happens all magical advancement stops. The Avatar doesn't want to exert itself when you can just drink some blood and gain access to power that way. And after a few years, your Avatar begins to wither away. Then your Arete--your enlightenment, your capacity for doing Magick. Once they're both gone, they're gone for good. You're just a very sad ghoul now. So in the best case scenario, a Dhampir would have a window of a few years to practice low-level Magick before the Avatar drowns itself in the Dhampir's own vitae. More likely it would never stir. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 02:40
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While the answer is likely no, and I'm sure that a thin blood is more likely to get killed before even given the chance to... can a 15th generation vampires blood function for vaulderie or blood bonds in general?
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Aug 16, 2014 19:04
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Kavingi posted:can a 15th generation vampires blood function for vaulderie or blood bonds in general? Nope!
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Aug 16, 2014 23:10
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Here's the 15th gen flaw:quote:Your vitae is so weak that only 6 of your 10 blood points can be used for Disciplines, healing, or raising Attributes. For these functions, you must expend two blood points to obtain the effect a normal vampire would achieve with one (the cost for rising nightly remains a single BP). What's more, you cannot create or sustain ghouls, create a blood bond, or sire a vampiric childe. You can use the remaining four blood points to survive through the day and wake up each night, nothing more. The Vaulderie is a bastardized version of the blood bond. So if you can't create one, you can't participate in the Vaulderie.
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Aug 17, 2014 01:06
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Is there any literature on what, exactly, a (typical) child born of a 15th-generation vampire would be like? They can't sire vampires or create ghouls but it wouldn't be a normal human child. I want to think it would be an even more thin-blooded, even more human 16th-generation vampire, though it seems that the 15th gen is basically bedrock.
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Aug 17, 2014 09:33
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Dhampir, the children of thinblood vampires, are pretty much mechanically identical to Revenants, who are ghouls specifically bred for generations until the result is a ghoul who naturally produces their own vitae - except Revenants have their own disciplines and weaknesses instead of inheriting them from their progenitor clan. So Dhampir aren't 16th generation vampires exactly - they're a shortcut to creating superghouls. To my mind, this heavily suggests that there's a straight progression from Caine to Antediluvian to vampire to dhampir/revenant to ghoul, instead of vampire and ghouls being entirely separate types of beings.
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Aug 17, 2014 10:12
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Tehan posted:Dhampir, the children of thinblood vampires, are pretty much mechanically identical to Revenants, who are ghouls specifically bred for generations until the result is a ghoul who naturally produces their own vitae - except Revenants have their own disciplines and weaknesses instead of inheriting them from their progenitor clan. So Dhampir aren't 16th generation vampires exactly - they're a shortcut to creating superghouls. What are the chances the breeding ghouls thing was a cover up for seeing just how thinblooded a thinblood can get?
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Aug 17, 2014 15:46
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xanthan posted:What are the chances the breeding ghouls thing was a cover up for seeing just how thinblooded a thinblood can get? There might have been some vampires who thought along those lines, but the revenant families really did just come about "naturally" from generations of ghouled loyal servants. Eventually, they produced something superhuman where the advantages outweighed the drawbacks. In the eyes of the Sabbat who had been creating them, of course.
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Aug 17, 2014 20:50
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xanthan posted:What are the chances the breeding ghouls thing was a cover up for seeing just how thinblooded a thinblood can get? Pretty much nil, there's an amazing amount of work you have to put into breeding revenants. It was the Tzimisce that originally started the practice. The ones that aren't obsessed with turning themselves and everything around them into horrible flesh monsters are generally stereotypical old world nobility type vampires. Kind of like the original literary version of Dracula. In fact Dracula was a Tzimisce. They ruled over towns and treated the inhabitants like cattle. It actually wasn't a terrible deal for the peasants, they ruled. Most feudal lords in the WoD treated people that way and they were protected by a powerful vampire in a time when 'town got sacked by bandits' was a major threat. And the vampires would meddle with their lives, including setting up marriages between favorite servants, because that's what you do with cattle. You breed the best ones so that the next generation turns out better. Eventually they realized that after four or five generations of all ghouls they were getting people who had minor supernatural abilities and that's when they really started taking it seriously instead of just being something to pass the time. Most revenents have pedigree's going back sixty or seventy generations and have become so mutated that there's very few breeds that aren't obviously inhuman in some way. It's tricky to fake something like that.
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Aug 17, 2014 21:27
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There are several revenant families. Most of them are complete degenerates. Bratovich - These guys are the stereotypical "Hills Have Eyes" kind of freakshow. Something straight out of a horror movie. They're bred big, dumb, and itching for a fight. The family tends toward Animalsim, Potence and Vicissitude Disciplines, but many develop the other physical ones as well. All the better to go on the occasional Lupine hunt, because they're crazy enough to hunt down werewolves. Bratoviches are very close to the Beast, despite not actually having one. They take -2 to rolls to resist Frenzy. Grimaldi - The majordomos of the Sabbat. They act as a public face for dealings with mortals. However all of them are blood bound to high up Sabbat officials, Bishops and Archbishops. The most important thing they do is to effectively enforce the Masquerade, as much as the Sabbat says it doesn't care about such things. They dabble in Celerity, Dominate and Foritude, though Presence is also a big get for them. They do have a secret agenda, though. They know they're under the Tzimisce thumb and are trying to find a way to achieve independence for their family. Obertus - The backroom scholars. All Obertus revenants have an Obsessive/Compulsive disorder regarding knowledge and/or research. They seek out information with a tenacity that rivals the Nosferatu. When not actively working for the sect, they're still digging up old secrets and figuring out lines of inquiry into new ones. They just can't help themselves. Disciplines are Auspex, Obfuscate and Vicissitude. Oprichniki - A Russian bloodline that served under Ivan the Terrible. Despite his best efforts, he did not wipe the family out. They served the Tzimisce of Russia even after the Iron Curtain went up and Baba Yaga did her damnedest to bring everything under her control. They're all-around henchmen to their voivodes, being able to do just about anything with their extensive training. They have access to Animalism, Obfuscate and Vicissitude, but each and every one of them is haunted by a spirit of the city of Novgorod, which the family destroyed, butching the inhabitants brutally in earlier days. Zantosa - Picture the Torador as the picture of a degenerate lifestyle. Then ramp it up to 11. They're the live fast and die young crowd, always on the cutting edge of whatever the new hip decadence is. The problem is, Zantosa revenants become addicted to their pleasures at the drop of a hat. If they experience a new form of extreme pleasure (sex, drugs, rock and roll, even a good steak), they have to make a Willpower roll or become addicted to that sensation. They'll do just about anything to experience it again. To help them out, they have Auspex, Presence and Vicissitude access. There's also another family that the Tremere have on their payroll, but that's their dirty little secret.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:52
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There's also a Ventrue that's been experimenting on making her own bloodline by breeding random pirates with the women on her island mentioned in the clan book. If I recall right, the Grimaldi aren't just looking for independence from the Fiends - they're trying to figure out the best way to join the Camarilla en mass, because to hell with these chumps.
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Aug 18, 2014 04:58
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Stroth posted:It was the Tzimisce that originally started the practice. The ones that aren't obsessed with turning themselves and everything around them into horrible flesh monsters are generally stereotypical old world nobility type vampires. Kind of like the original literary version of Dracula. In fact Dracula was a Tzimisce.
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Aug 18, 2014 08:13
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xanthan posted:What are the chances the breeding ghouls thing was a cover up for seeing just how thinblooded a thinblood can get? I've played around with the idea and I think it's definitely possible, because whether they started with inbreeding ghoul servants until Revenants were created or they just built a breeding program to legitimize a population of Dhampir servants and keep their numbers up, the result is the current status quo among ghoul families. I'm gonna see if I can find my Time of Thin Blood book and give it a skim to see if there's anything in it that supports or rules out the possibility.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:08
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JT Jag posted:If Dracula is a canon figure in-universe, is there an explanation for the book? I mean, that's a massive Masquerade Violation. Page 50 has you covered! OAquinas posted:It's...complicated. Tehan posted:Not sure about the book, but Dracula (Vlad Tepes III) was a loving bad-rear end who, as a mortal, manipulated the three-way war between the first Anarch revolt, the Camarilla, and the Sabbat to bootstrap himself into a an incredibly low-generation vampire, beholden to nobody.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:16
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Relevant to the current topic, Dracula was also said to have been a member of the now-extinct Basarab revenant family, who's family weakness was an allergy to garlic, which cause that bit of pop culture to enter the collective consciousness. Edit: I forgot that Time of Thin Blood was when vampires discovered the blood point  quote:While most Kindred know that some vitae has more intrinsic power than other, until recently no one has quantified this potential. I am indebted to Professor Maxius of Clan Tremere for his Vitae Efficacy scales of measurement, and I refer interested readers to his papers. In brief, Maxius defined five scales: Further edit: The vampire definition of 'ethical problem' is an insufficient supply of 'socially negligible mortals'. Tehan fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 09:21
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An allergy to garlic has to be one of the worst allergies ever. I couldn't imagine not being able to consume heavenly garlic.
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Aug 18, 2014 09:26
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Okay, final conclusion from ToTB re: dhampirs vs revenants. Dr Netchurch, the amazing star of Time of Thin Blood, puts it thusly: 'It appears, therefore, that two processes may generate revenants. They may be "bred up" from ghouls. Alternatively, revenants may be "bred down" from vampires.' He also puts forward the conclusion that this is only possible among members of the 15th generation, with a fair bit of supporting evidence (turns out 15th generation vampires, and only 15th generation vampires, still experience mitosis at a very reduced rate, compared to the complete stasis of vampires of lower generation - there's a lot more to it than that but it's literally pages long) which suggests that before the 15th generation was possible in modern times, dhampirs could not be produced, so revenant families are indeed all "bred up" from ghouls.
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Aug 18, 2014 10:01
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JT Jag posted:If Dracula is a canon figure in-universe, is there an explanation for the book? I mean, that's a massive Masquerade Violation. Dracula the book was actually a huge boost to the masquerade. OAquinas already pointed out that it discredits hunters that are going after him personally, but it also contains ridiculous amounts of misinformation and outright bullshit about what a vampire's powers and weaknesses are. It claimed that he could fly, shrink himself down to fit through tiny cracks and tunnels, control the weather, read the mind of anyone he's ghouled, can teleport to 'unhallowed ground' and that anyone who dies to a vampire becomes one. It also claimed that sunlight is only an annoyance that weakens a vampire, they they can be driven away with crosses and sacramental bread, that they can only cross running water at high or low tide, that they can only enter a building if invited inside and that the only way to kill a vampire is cutting off his head and then destroying his heart. Wooden stakes are notably not used in his death scene. Really, anyone hunting vampires using the information in Dracula is setting himself up for failure.
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Aug 18, 2014 19:04
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I really like the idea behind misdirection stuff like this. It uses the whole "Our Vampires Are Different" thing and actually weaponizes it in their setting. I think its in The Dresden Files where Bram Stoker published Dracula to specifically combat a certain type of vampire, and it largely worked. Those ones are nearly extinct in that universe. The other three or four types however, are doing just fine and even helped with the proliferation of the book since not even they liked those creepy Black Court corpses. Dracula himself sounds amazing though. Any other pop-culture vampires that appear here?
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Aug 18, 2014 19:31
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It was how-to on killing Black Court, possibly sponsored by White AFAIK. Been a while since I read those early books available at local library.
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Aug 18, 2014 19:40
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GuyUpNorth posted:It was how-to on killing Black Court, possibly sponsored by White AFAIK. Been a while since I read those early books available at local library. It was sponsored by the White Council. It lead to the eradication of the Black Court, but it does mean that those Black Court vampires who survived are very, very smart. The other two types of vampires in the Dresden Files are more or less succubi and shapeshifting bat-creatures from Mayan myth.
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Aug 18, 2014 19:58
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Stroth posted:Dracula the book was actually a huge boost to the masquerade. OAquinas already pointed out that it discredits hunters that are going after him personally, but it also contains ridiculous amounts of misinformation and outright bullshit about what a vampire's powers and weaknesses are. It claimed that he could fly, shrink himself down to fit through tiny cracks and tunnels, control the weather, read the mind of anyone he's ghouled, can teleport to 'unhallowed ground' and that anyone who dies to a vampire becomes one. VtM as a whole leaves no portion of vampire mythos unlooted, and pretty much all of the above is somewhere in the game even if it's not universal. Flying? Eight points in Celerity. Shrinking to fit in cracks? Five points in Protean to do it as mist, seven to create a mini-me. Controlling weather? There's an entire Path of Thaumaturgy for that. Ghoul mind-reading? Four points in Auspex for mind-reading in general, and ghouls can be Dominated by their master without requiring eye contact. Teleporting? Not that I know of, but they can appear to with Obfuscate. Baali are threatened by holy symbols, and there's Flaws that cover running water and needing invitations. Cythereal posted:It was sponsored by the White Council. It lead to the eradication of the Black Court, but it does mean that those Black Court vampires who survived are very, very smart. The other two types of vampires in the Dresden Files are more or less succubi and shapeshifting bat-creatures from Mayan myth. There was a passing mention of a Jade Court at one point, but there were no real details given.
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Aug 18, 2014 20:02
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Stroth posted:Dracula the book was actually a huge boost to the masquerade. OAquinas already pointed out that it discredits hunters that are going after him personally, but it also contains ridiculous amounts of misinformation and outright bullshit about what a vampire's powers and weaknesses are. It claimed that he could fly, shrink himself down to fit through tiny cracks and tunnels, control the weather, read the mind of anyone he's ghouled, can teleport to 'unhallowed ground' and that anyone who dies to a vampire becomes one. So how does this tie into the Mage system of everyone having a sleeping Avatar that enforces the human consensus on reality. IE, if "everyone knows" that vampires are vulnerable to crosses and garlic, why aren't they? I know there's only limited crossover between the game systems, but it seems like something one of them would have tackled at some point.
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Aug 18, 2014 20:36
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Mr. Vile posted:So how does this tie into the Mage system of everyone having a sleeping Avatar that enforces the human consensus on reality. IE, if "everyone knows" that vampires are vulnerable to crosses and garlic, why aren't they? Mages work against reality to bend it to their will, and as such are vulnerable to sleeping Avatars who enforce said reality. Vampires are part of the reality of the World of Darkness, so making what 'everybody knows' true would be changing reality instead of enforcing it, and would take a lot more mystic power. And that's without accounting for the fact that vampires were created by capital-G God and therefore I seriously doubt any number of Sleepers could edit them. Plus what 'everybody knows' about vampires changes from culture to culture, so if anything it wouldn't be Bram Stoker stuff being imprinted on reality, it'd be Indian or Chinese myths. That's my take, anyway. Compared to some of the people in this thread I know bugger all about mages 
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Aug 18, 2014 21:27
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Mr. Vile posted:So how does this tie into the Mage system of everyone having a sleeping Avatar that enforces the human consensus on reality. IE, if "everyone knows" that vampires are vulnerable to crosses and garlic, why aren't they? Pick your reason and run with it. The Real Answer is "different gamelines, so if you're running a Mage game they totally could be vulnerable to it." Vampires are supernatural creatures. In the mage system they'd be "Bygones"--creatures that exist despite Consensus Reality and not as a part of it. That's why they don't get Paradox, and require a blood point (which again, converts to one quintessence) per day to remain in existence. So the pithy rules of consensus don't apply. Plus, while some people who believe in vampires might use the legends to hunt them, the VAST majority of humanity doesn't believe they're real. Ergo, the pop literature limitations don't apply.
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Aug 18, 2014 21:32
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GuyUpNorth posted:It was how-to on killing Black Court, possibly sponsored by White AFAIK. Been a while since I read those early books available at local library. That was the white council, the Wizards orginization. However, the White Court, or at least the house of Raith who are its most common members and just happen to be pretty mind read/controlling vampires that feed on lust and aren't harmed by sunlight, are implied to be the one behind Twilight though.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:14
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OAquinas posted:Pick your reason and run with it. The Real Answer is "different gamelines, so if you're running a Mage game they totally could be vulnerable to it." Pretty much this. Vampires are basically bygones down to the blood point mechanic fitting 1-1 with the requirements for bygones, and the actual oWoD werewolves are so well-believed in that all humans everywhere literally have genetic compulsions to freak out and run really fast when werewolves show up, because everyone who didn't feel that kind of overwhelming fear at the sight of a werewolf in warform died. Werewolves in oWoD are literally worse than Nazis.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:34
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MJ12 posted:Pretty much this. Vampires are basically bygones down to the blood point mechanic fitting 1-1 with the requirements for bygones, and the actual oWoD werewolves are so well-believed in that all humans everywhere literally have genetic compulsions to freak out and run really fast when werewolves show up, because everyone who didn't feel that kind of overwhelming fear at the sight of a werewolf in warform died. The Impergium, good times. Also, there were werewolves in the Nazi party, where do you think all that werewolves of the SS poo poo comes from? Nazi werewolves, even worse than regular ones.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:50
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There's a Nazi on the Pentex board of directors. And he's a 5th Gen Malkavian, to boot.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:43
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Vicissitude posted:There's a Nazi on the Pentex board of directors. And he's a 5th Gen Malkavian, to boot. I imagine getting him to comprehend and care about the existence of a particular brand of mortal was a fun time back in the 30sish
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Aug 19, 2014 01:05
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Vicissitude posted:There's a Nazi on the Pentex board of directors. And he's a 5th Gen Malkavian, to boot. Malkavian nazis. I hate malkavian nazis.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:42
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Shugojin posted:I imagine getting him to comprehend and care about the existence of a particular brand of mortal was a fun time back in the 30sish I like to imagine that he just wandered into an SS meeting one day and decided that he liked the uniforms and everyone was too scared too try to make him leave.
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Aug 19, 2014 01:46
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Stroth posted:Dracula the book was actually a huge boost to the masquerade. It probably helped that Bram Stoker's Dracula is actually a really good book and everyone should read it if they're even remotely interested in vampires.
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Aug 19, 2014 05:41
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  After a quick visit to our friend Mercurio, we're taking a taxi back...  ...to Downtown. Remember that little quest Isaac had for us, regarding a Gargoyle and the Asian Theater?    Like I said before: Maximillian Strauss, Tremere Regeant extraordinaire, should have some information pertinent to our gargoyle situation. Which is not to say that the only stop we're making is the Tremere tower. Rather, we're going to be visiting many of our old friends. Although some, like the Anarchs, have nothing new to say. Others, such as LaCroix, aren't accessible.  As a result, I'm showing off three different places. The first clearly demonstrates that siding with Venus was the right choice; a constant supply of money for the rest of the game obviously outweighs a one-time cash bonus from the Russian Mafia.  It's a good idea to stop by our apartment. It's been a while, so we should have a couple new emails. And there's also our ghoul to check in on...  ...Heather?  A while ago in the LP I asked Heather to change her appearance -- well, ordered her, really. I'm doing the same now for obvious reasons.  We've accumulated a lot of experience in recent updates.  I'm putting a dot in Scholarship and Intelligence. With one more dot in Computers, we can use a skill book we acquired some time in the past.  We haven't watched the news in some time, so let's see what the media coverage of our recent adventures is.  Another murder in Hollywood tonight at an adult bookstore. A peep show dancer was killed in the basement of the store, and investigators are still trying to put the pieces together, since no one present saw or heard anything. It is unknown at this time what the motives were, but the police are ruling out the Southland Slasher as a suspect. Tourists attempting to pay their respects at actress Ginger Swan's grave at the Hollywood Eternal cemetery were shocked to discover the grave of the former sex symbol had been vandalized. The star was entombed in the Hollywood Eternal mausoleum after her death in 1964. Nothing was stolen from the crypt, but estimates put the damage at over a thousand dollars.These next few might be repeats : A tourist bus destined for the ancient city of Angkor Wat that failed to return Wednesday night, was found this morning, though without any trace of its operator or passengers. Cambodian officials have dispatched several military units into the area to search through the surrounding jungle amidst concerns that it is related to one of a number of Southeastern Asian terrorist organizations based in the region. Three American citizens are among the missing. Concerned parent groups joined several senators on the step of Capitol Hill to protest the latest wave of violent video games. Senator Limperman called the games "pornography" and was offended by crude shots taken at him by one recent game. Among the titles the group is trying to get banned from stores are "Manglegarten", "Rape and Pillage", and "Abe Lincoln Teaches Killing". Protestors say that extended media attention towards exploitive games such as "Meth Tycoon" promotes parental awareness of their adult content, and lessens children's interest in the taboo-themed games. Religious tourists have been flocking in droves to the Santa Maria church in Santiago, Spain after several pilgrims claimed to have seen statues of the Madonna begin crying blood. The site dates back to the period of the Romans, and has several reported weeping virgin sightings throughout its history. One pilgrim reported that they witnessed blood coming from no less than six statues at around sunset, and that the courtyard felt full of sadness. Skeptics have been quick to point out that this phenomena has been debunked, and witnesses are no more credible than those that report UFOs.That's it for the news.  We have two new emails. The first is confirmation of a completed quest:  The second is initiating a new one:  This library quest is arguably WESP's biggest addition to the game. Troika originally planned to include some sort of quest involving the downtown LA library, but that idea never materialized. WESP and crew decided to make it happen. inflatablefish posted:New content is always interesting... but given that this seems to be WESP's idea of how an erudite scholar would write, I can't say I have high hopes for how it'll turn out. Regardless, we aren't going to the Downtown Library in this update.  We're instead heading back to Strauss' demesne after collecting LaCroix's reward.  We've already learned a small bit about Gargoyles: Part 16 posted:
And from our own oWoD loremaster, Vicissitude: Vicissitude posted:Gargoyles are an interesting clan in the WoD because they're not technically a clan. They were artificially created vampires given the form of traditional church/castle guardians. The Tremere used captured Gangrel, Nosferatu and even Tzimisce prisoners and mingled the vitae of each to create a new breed of subservient vampires. In this, they both succeeded and failed. It's inherently inbred into a Gargoyle to take commands from a vampire. They have effectively 2 fewer Willpower dots when resisting Dominate or similar mind-affecting powers. On top of that, they can only ever have an Appearance of 0, like the Nosferatu. As such, they don't get out much and have to stick around being told what to do by their Tremere masters. Still, faced with the fact that a real Gargoyle is holed up in Hollywood, Strauss may be more forthcoming with information that could assist us.   I have a question for you about Gargoyles.  What can I tell you about them? What is a Gargoyle? A Gargoyle, put simply, is a creature that was created to protect the Tremere clan in the early years of our existence. They are very powerful, and not to be trifled with. The Tremere "created" them? Yes. We used our extensive knowledge of blood magics to create a race of protectors. They served that purpose well, but they have also caused many problems. It's a complicated issue. Just how complicated? Well, many Gargoyles still serve their Tremere masters, but a number of them have since rebelled and gone into hiding. They are a sentient race, but ultimately unfit for the freedom they desire. They need the guidance of their former masters.A loose Gargoyle seems to be one huge masquerade violation. Regardless, Max seems to be speaking from experience. With a high enough persuasion score, we can get him to spill the vampiric beans. [Persuade] Sounds like you have some personal experience in this matter, Max. What? YOUR creation?!? Yes. Many years ago, I created this Gargoyle to protect the chantry from our enemies. He was a faithful servant, and saved my life more than once.  Schmoozing like the Ventrue we are has served us well to this point. There's no reason to deviate from this path. Completely. I will tell no one of your secret. I appreciate your discretion in this matter, neonate. Good to hear. Now, what do I need to do? Thanks, but how do I best fight the gargoyle? With much difficulty, I'm afraid. Gargoyles are notoriously resilient. Their hides are made of stone. Firearms will be almost useless. Blunt force is the only thing they understand. Thanks. I'm outta here.There's nothing holding us to our word, meaning we could very well betray Strauss to Isaac, but trust me, there's a reason we won't be doing it.  Instead, we'll return to Hollywood with only the Rune of the Third Eye in hand. It just reduces the damage a Gargoyle does to its holder. Our first stop is Vesuvius.   Whatever. I have news about Hatter's source. Are they...? I mean, did you...? It's taken care of. I'm willing to ignore the incredible lengths you've gone to be an rear end in a top hat.  That's it? Forget this... I'm out of here.We'll take our 1 XP and leave.  Goodbye Club Vesuvius. We will never return. As a parting gift, have a listen to an unused alternate version of the Vesuvius theme:  To Issac's room.  I've learned something about the Gargoyle. I'm showing this off for its own sake. We have to head to the theater before we're even given the chance to beqeath Strauss' dark secret to Isaac.  Now, this theatre lies across the street from Isaac's office.  Unlocking the door, we head inside.   Suddenly... Watch      Remember, Isaac wants this monster as an ally, though in honesty he'd be fine if we just removed it from the theater. In any case, any type of negotiation requires us to be very careful with these upcoming dialogue choices. Gargoyles are hotheads. That's an interesting way to start a conversation. I'm only here to talk. [Listen] Talk? No! Always Kindred are talking, scheming, hurting others with their lies! Monsters, you all! Abominations! A curse upon the earth!If there is a monster in the room, its voice would sound like that, not Melissa's. Wait! I come here in peace! I have an offer from Isaac Abrams!We could have mentioned Strauss there, but I'm sure you can guess it's not a good idea.  The Gargoyle question is this: do we attempt to ally the Gargoyle with Isaac Abrams, or do we destroy it? gatz fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Aug 28, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 06:34
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Am I not remembering it correctly or is there an option to get the Gargoyle working for Strauss again? If there is, do that. Otherwise, let's make friends with Isaac and get him a new stone buddy. Ventrue are all about getting allies, even if they are unusual bedfellows, and Isaac as well as potentially the gargoyle owing you favors down the line has to be better than Isaac being a bit annoyed and the Gargoyle being dead.
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Aug 20, 2014 07:08
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Mountain Lightning posted:Ventrue are all about getting allies Hence why we should be cozying up to the Tremere. We become friends with Isaac and all we are is friends with Isaac. We become friends with Strauss and we've got an influential and respected character reference for an entire world-spanning organization of magical vampires. Plus this way we have it both ways - Isaac would like an ally but he's already convinced that it's likely you'll have to kill it, so all you have to say is 'whelp, he wouldn't listen, had to kill him' and both Isaac and Strauss would be grateful. It's the  . Kill the gargoyle.
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Aug 20, 2014 11:38
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I think I have always killed the gargoyle in my own play throughs. Ally the gargoyle.
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Aug 20, 2014 12:16
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