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Dollars to donuts, when Namor flew off, he went directly to Latveria. I can't think of a single reason why Namor would want to keep him from the truth about why they were in Latveria at this point.
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Aug 17, 2014 16:30
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Would the Illuminati be so conflicted if they didn't know they had Namor there to make the tough decisions for them?
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Aug 17, 2014 23:15
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As much as I love New Avengers, I think it's hilarious that Hank Pym has been basically toxic waste as a character for decades now, because he hit his wife during an emotional breakdown (doesn't excuse it, but Peter Parker has done the same thing) but I'd bet within 2 years of the end of Hickman's run on Avengers/New Avengers, Namor is going to be in another book as a major character.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:10
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Skwirl posted:As much as I love New Avengers, I think it's hilarious that Hank Pym has been basically toxic waste as a character for decades now, because he hit his wife during an emotional breakdown (doesn't excuse it, but Peter Parker has done the same thing) but I'd bet within 2 years of the end of Hickman's run on Avengers/New Avengers, Namor is going to be in another book as a major character. Well, planetary genocide isn't a thing in the real world. Yet.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:23
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He'll be the makes tough choices guy. Dude triaged a planet to save two universes.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:29
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Skwirl posted:As much as I love New Avengers, I think it's hilarious that Hank Pym has been basically toxic waste as a character for decades now, because he hit his wife during an emotional breakdown (doesn't excuse it, but Peter Parker has done the same thing) but I'd bet within 2 years of the end of Hickman's run on Avengers/New Avengers, Namor is going to be in another book as a major character. He's toxic waste because no one has done anything even remotely interesting with him for decades.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:35
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Namor is almost always at best a morally grey character if not an outright villain, it's not really difficult to salvage him doing something supervillainish. Also yeah, his horrible crime is not something that actually happens in real life and is problematic to have in a hero's past.
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Aug 18, 2014 07:36
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Hakkesshu posted:He's toxic waste because no one has done anything even remotely interesting with him for decades. Avengers Academy. That AoU epilogue one-shot by Mark Waid. 
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Aug 18, 2014 10:19
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I think Hank Pym's biggest problem as a character is that his brand has been diluted too much. Over the years so many other characters have used his power set it's left him with nothing but being a second run scientist. The only other thing he has is his history, which unfortunately is that of being kind of a gently caress up.
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Aug 18, 2014 12:16
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I think Hank's problem is that the abusive slap keeps being brought up by writers for some reason so in a self fulfilling prophecy, it's all he's known for. It's the same poo poo we had pre New 52 with Donna Troy, where everyone wanted to be the one to give closure to her origins, just complicating things more and more each time.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:42
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Scott Lang, jumped up electrician, mastered the use of Pym Particles. Literally every single person that has been involved in the study of Pym Particles not Hank Pym has been better at using them than he is. Add to that most attempts to make Pym relevant fizzle out and you have a character that is primed to be thought of as a failure forever. Unless he gets really lucky and a great writer gets an idea for him, he could absolutely fade into oblivion.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:49
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Solaris Knight posted:I think Hank's problem is that the abusive slap keeps being brought up by writers for some reason so in a self fulfilling prophecy, it's all he's known for. The problem with Donna Troy was she had a great origin that was ruined due to crisis.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:49
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Yeah, every loving writer wants to write THE REDEMPTION story for Hank Pym so it is the only thing that keeps coming up. I think there's been some glimpses of him being a good character outside of that, most notably in Avengers: The Initative and Avengers Academy. And the one non-Hopless issue of Avengers Arena. And hell, he was a pretty good character in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes as well. Waid has used him well a couple of times in Daredevil.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:51
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Boogaleeboo posted:Scott Lang, jumped up electrician, mastered the use of Pym Particles. Literally every single person that has been involved in the study of Pym Particles not Hank Pym has been better at using them than he is. Add to that most attempts to make Pym relevant fizzle out and you have a character that is primed to be thought of as a failure forever. Unless he gets really lucky and a great writer gets an idea for him, he could absolutely fade into oblivion. Pym should fade into oblivion. He's never going to escape the slap because writers are never going to stop bringing up the one interesting thing he's done, (Ironman will have be the one who actually invented Ultron by next summer). He needs to die and stay in the ground for a decade or so then maybe he can get brought back and reworked. SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 16:59
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Pym really needs an Alias treatment. Stop pretending he's ever going to be the guy, make him a side character to the wider world dealing with the fact he just couldn't hack it.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:10
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Boogaleeboo posted:Pym really needs an Alias treatment. Stop pretending he's ever going to be the guy, make him a side character to the wider world dealing with the fact he just couldn't hack it. This. I sort of feel the same way about the Wasp. Let both of them retire and bring in new characters to take their place that aren't burdened by years of awful stories and terrible writing.
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Aug 18, 2014 17:31
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notthegoatseguy posted:And hell, he was a pretty good character in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes as well. This show is the only time I have ever cared about Hank Pym and it was actually a pretty great characterization of him! Too bad it basically requires a clean slate. For those who haven't seen it: He's painted as the moralistic side to the hammerhanded force of the Avengers and is always seeking a way to solve the issue of 'supercrime' from a long term perspective, meaning that the dudes that the Avengers arrested are put in a prison fitted for them and given genuine (or as genuine as it gets in a comic book universe anyhow I guess) therapeutic treatment and whatnot. The other members of the Avengers constantly brush him and his methods off and don't really have it as part of their goals to see that criminals are treated humanely which is pretty fuckin' weird but also somewhat in character for at least 3 of the dudes on the team at the time. In that series, Ultron was created as a method of managing that prison without risking human life alongside having a 'human-like' AI designed for therapy with no dumb moron rear end flaws. The reason why Ultron ultimately becomes a villain is because the rest of the Avengers force him to change the AI into a warbot to be able to combat Kang- meaning that the guilt of of creating Ultron isn't on his hands and he isn't some idiot fuckup. It's actually 'cuz of Tony Stark keeping a warbot Ultron around to militarize that he quits the Avengers rather than anything to do with Hank Pym being incompetent or jealousy. It's simply him disagreeing with methods of the team and leaving. Fereydun fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 17:38
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It also had the incredible Hank Pym vs. Abomination fight. It was epic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msDt58LSdAc
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Aug 18, 2014 17:50
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I doubt that your experience is very uncommon. My girlfriend also thought of Pym as a discount Stark until that show. Her only other exposure to the character was that Ultimate Avengers series so she wasn't too fond of him.
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Aug 18, 2014 20:34
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PaybackJack posted:This. I sort of feel the same way about the Wasp. Let both of them retire and bring in new characters to take their place that aren't burdened by years of awful stories and terrible writing. It sounds like a good idea but it'll never ever happen because they're both founding Avengers.
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Aug 18, 2014 21:30
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Yeah they are both grandfathered into repeated attempts at relevance because old means good.
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Aug 19, 2014 03:45
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SirDan3k posted:Yeah they are both grandfathered into repeated attempts at relevance because old means good. I really want to plaster this post across DC and Marvel offices so hard, especially Dc with them erasing their legacies.
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Aug 19, 2014 06:37
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Boogaleeboo posted:Pym really needs an Alias treatment. Stop pretending he's ever going to be the guy, make him a side character to the wider world dealing with the fact he just couldn't hack it. Aside from the Initiative and Avengers Academy, I liked the brief turn he had in Bendis' Avengers around Secret Avengers as just a plain old academic who happened to be a super-hero once upon a time. As a crime fighter, he's never been that impressive or compelling as a character, and I think the role of committed educator is a nice niche for him. It would also suggest a little bit of extra verisimilitude to the Marvel Universe-- just because you happened to be bitten by a radioactive animal, or discovered a shrink-particle or invented an ice gun or whatever doesn't mean you necessarily have the mentality to go out and wreck things up in bright spandex. That other characters have used Pym particles in more dynamic ways than him shouldn't have to be a mark against his character-- inventing and super-heroing shouldn't have to be mutually compatible skill-sets. By comic book logic, Marconi would have been The Rabblerousing Radio Man, and Eli Whitney would have menaced the United States with his sinister cotton gin. Let Hank bow out of the spotlight gracefully and take on the role of an experienced, intelligent, but definitively retired (and happier for it) former pro (his recent appearance in Soule's She-Hulk is a good model for how I imagine him working in that capacity).
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Aug 19, 2014 20:54
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Archyduke posted:Eli Whitney would have menaced the United States with his sinister cotton gin. The cotton gin made slavery a lot more important to the south, so technically, he did.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:02
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WickedHate posted:The cotton gin made slavery a lot more important to the south, so technically, he did. Yeah, between that and the arms empire I was kind of imagining him as a frumpy Iron Monger. Most of the other inventors that came to mind as potential comic book bad guys were either too obvious or are already in Manhattan Projects.
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Aug 19, 2014 21:35
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Oh my god New Avengers. I don't know how Hickman can keep putting out issues that are this good. BTW my copy and a bunch of others at my LCBS only have one staple in them, so look out for that. "Am I a good man?" "No." Senor Candle fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 02:03
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I have a question about the incursions that maybe I missed. Did the people of Earth-616 see Fake-JLA Earth almost collide with theirs? I thought the Illuminati were trying to keep the incursions secret but I would think the cat would be out of the bag.
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Aug 20, 2014 03:09
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You can only see the incursion inside the incursion zone.
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Aug 20, 2014 03:21
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But one of the incursion zones was the Statue of Liberty. I mean how secret can it really be at this point? Or do they just see the sky turning red and not the whole planet coming down?
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Aug 20, 2014 03:28
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There have been a couple of semi-public incursions. Mainly in Ellis Island and Latveria.
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Aug 20, 2014 03:30
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Considering their nature of the sky opening up and stuff coming through it's not really indicative of anything major on the marvel earth. The old joke of it must be Tuesday but really that poo poo happens all the time.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:02
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:There have been a couple of semi-public incursions. Mainly in Ellis Island and Latveria. SirDan said it first, but New York basically experiences an alien invasion once or twice a month, and given the kind of experiments Doom likely does, that can't be the weirdest thing Latveria's ever seen in their sky.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:42
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Skwirl posted:SirDan said it first, but New York basically experiences an alien invasion once or twice a month, and given the kind of experiments Doom likely does, that can't be the weirdest thing Latveria's ever seen in their sky. Doom was demanding to know what it was and Reed just told him to mind his own business.
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Aug 20, 2014 13:15
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Senor Candle posted:Doom was demanding to know what it was and Reed just told him to mind his own business. 
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Aug 20, 2014 14:45
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Senor Candle posted:Doom was demanding to know what it was and Reed just told him to mind his own business. Doom should solve the incursions then just walk up to the Baxter Building and give it the finger in full view. While Namor steals Sue away.
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Aug 20, 2014 14:51
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We saw an alternate Doom not do too well against Mapmakers so I doubt the Doom we know and love could do much better.
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Aug 20, 2014 14:57
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Holy poo poo this issue was amazing. poo poo has gone down and almost everyone has got reality slapped in their face.
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Aug 20, 2014 15:00
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HOLY loving poo poo The intro speech has been told like 6 times now but having Namor be the one saying it and then revealing the Cabal left me loving speechless. Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 15:04
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MAJOR SPOILERS FOR TODAY'S ISSUE OF NA Specifically what is spoilered above. http://i.imgur.com/tIYEcjs.png http://i.imgur.com/aXHNTnK.png http://i.imgur.com/uUiVbDZ.png http://i.imgur.com/pSg4vjE.png ALSO! Where the gently caress did Strange go? Senor Candle fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 15:21
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How the hell did Thanos become unfrozen?
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Aug 20, 2014 15:27
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