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Cultural Imperial posted:You know what's hilarious? See if you can find a chart for condo prices in Vancouver for the past 7 years. It's flat.  Anyone clamoring to get on the bottom rung of the property ladder before they are priced out forever should feel pretty foolish. Anecdote Time: My wife got to listen to the flipper, that is trying to sell the townhouse unit on the end of my building last night, bitch at his agent about the offers they are getting. Considering what he paid, and the materials and time he put into some renos, and the tax he is going to pay since he hasn't been here a year, he is probably looking at a couple of grand profit at best if he gets his asking. When your ~1% profit margin is predicated on 2% realty commissions and tax evasion, you gotta wonder why anyone bothers. E: You know, looking at the overall Vancouver chart the average detached price hasn't moved since 2011 either. EE: Soft landing achieved, congratulations everyone! ocrumsprug fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 22:28
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Since housing prices are not normally distributed it should be graphing the median price over time and not the average price over time. The long tail will skew the mean.
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Aug 21, 2014 02:51
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    my housing market bear penis ejaculating 
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Aug 21, 2014 04:00
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cowofwar posted:Since housing prices are not normally distributed it should be graphing the median price over time and not the average price over time. The long tail will skew the mean.  They know that they use whatever math fits the agenda better.
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Aug 21, 2014 04:09
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Rutibex posted:
That's giving realtors and real estate 'analysts' a lot of credit.
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Aug 21, 2014 06:35
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My dad bought his condo in like 2008 or 2009 or something and is looking to sell it, and he knows that he'll get exactly what he paid for it back.
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Aug 21, 2014 06:39
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Is it possible that the relaxation of lending standards in the runup to the GFC genuinely did establish a 'new normal' in both sustainable lending practices and house prices? Certainly here in the UK, housing bears like to moan about how these days couples can get mortgages for 3-4x joint income whereas back in the day a couple could only get a mortgage based on 3x one partner's income and 1x the second partner's. However, the old standard was established at a time when it was the norm for only one partner to have a proper career while the other would typically either be a stay at home parent or work a much lower status job on a part time basis. Clearly that lending standard doesn't make a huge amount of sense from the bank's POV if both partners are of comparable professional status and have similar earning power. Basically, is it possible that to some extent credit was unreasonably restricted in the 80s and early 90s rather than lending standards being relaxed too aggressively from the mid-90s onwards? Also, a belated happy 18-month birthday to this thread. Would someone who bought their first canadian home on Feb 14, 2013 be feeling good or bad about their purchase today?
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Aug 21, 2014 09:16
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HookShot posted:My dad bought his condo in like 2008 or 2009 or something and is looking to sell it, and he knows that he'll get exactly what he paid for it back. So presumably that makes it a loss relative to someone who rented a similar unit for the period?
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Aug 21, 2014 12:42
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Hey, a realtor! The answers to your questions are in this thread: no, there is nothing historically to suggest this is sustainable. The party inevitably stops somewhere, even if it takes a decade. Would someone be happy if they bought a year ago? Depends. A friend is currently renting a condo out at a loss and is pretty unhappy about it, but most people are financially illiterate and would feel secure in their wise investing strategy (everything leveraged into one asset that the rest of the world is warning us about, because it always goes up forever).
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Aug 21, 2014 12:48
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I feel like a complete newbie, but I don't know what average SFD prices mean.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:26
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Single Family Dwelling.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:30
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Or more likely: Single Family, Detached.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:38
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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How many multi-family dwelling are there anyways? I can understand extended families, but the only thing I've heard about multi-family dwellings is that article a few pages back about two families who split a mortgage and a house, which sounds like a terrible idea. Or does this include people renting out basements and such?
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Aug 21, 2014 15:42
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eXXon posted:How many multi-family dwelling are there anyways? I can understand extended families, but the only thing I've heard about multi-family dwellings is that article a few pages back about two families who split a mortgage and a house, which sounds like a terrible idea. Or does this include people renting out basements and such? It refers to the type of dwelling, not who lives there. A basement suite, or an house "apartment" don't matter, it is still a house. I imagine that Sikh generational homes are also considered SFD as well since that is a weird foreigner thing, not the correct way to live.
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Aug 21, 2014 15:52
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Wasting posted:Hey, a realtor! Not only am I not a realtor, I'm not even Canadian! That aside, it's nice that you think there's no reason that current prices are sustainable, but that's not really what my question was about. Most historical norms for house prices relative to incomes were established during periods when most households had only one main earner. Why do you think they remain valid now that many/most (?) households have two main earners?
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Aug 21, 2014 15:54
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LemonDrizzle posted:Not only am I not a realtor, I'm not even Canadian! That aside, it's nice that you think there's no reason that current prices are sustainable, but that's not really what my question was about. Most historical norms for house prices relative to incomes were established during periods when most households had only one main earner. Why do you think they remain valid now that many/most (?) households have two main earners? These parameters are just crazy wide. Counterpoint : US and Dutch house prices. E: the current UK housing bubble is absolutely attributable to Osbourne help to buy policy, which is a defacto loosening of lending rules. namaste friends fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 16:05
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Because our purchasing power for poo poo like housing has gone way the hell down even with 2 incomes? 2 incomes today are needed to be on par with 1 income 50 years ago. Also a heck of a lot of women worked back then too, even if just a part time job.
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Aug 21, 2014 16:06
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http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/10043-Centrium-Condos-(Centrust-Developement-Liberty-Development)-Real-Estate/page11 Buy a Toronto pre construction condo, get ripped off. e: fixed the url namaste friends fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 16:23
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Cultural Imperial posted:http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread.php/10043-Centrium-Condos-(Centrust-Developement-Liberty-Development)-Real-Estate/page11 Can someone give me the gist of this? Obviously people got ripped off, but no really sure how. edit: Nevermind, most of the details started on page 11. DailyDumSum fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 16:34
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DailyDumSum posted:Can someone give me the gist of this? Obviously people got ripped off, but no really sure how. "we investigated and found out she [Meerai Cho, broker?] transfered the money to the developer, and from the investigation, we found out the developer left canada in 2013, and the land for centrium was sold twice that year. You can find that from OREA." Ouch. Then the broker declared bankruptcy. "In 2013, the construction site for Centrium was auctioned away to another party already. Meerai Cho had given away our money to the developer Joseph Lee, who had already fled to Korea. Meerai Cho as a trustee should not have done this, and this is considered illegal. This money, which is more than 15million (possibly twice of this amount) dollar, should be paid to Joseph lee after the construction completed. Meerai Cho shouldn’t have done this. This is possibly a plotted crime."
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Aug 21, 2014 16:38
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That thread.  username: "nothappy", post title: "This can't be happening".
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Aug 21, 2014 19:26
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There is a joke waiting to be made about how everyone in that thread seems to speak english at the elementary school level.
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Aug 21, 2014 19:30
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 postin' dis for posterity
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Aug 21, 2014 20:08
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Cultural Imperial posted:
Don't worry, CI, she's not ethnic han edit: that entire forum would completely convince me not to buy a condo. Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 20:37
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LemonDrizzle posted:Most historical norms for house prices relative to incomes were established during periods when most households had only one main earner. Why do you think they remain valid now that many/most (?) households have two main earners? Because many/most households aren't making any more money in real terms.
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Aug 21, 2014 21:00
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Lexicon posted:So presumably that makes it a loss relative to someone who rented a similar unit for the period?
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Aug 21, 2014 21:14
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Violently from a drug deal gone bad?
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Aug 21, 2014 21:17
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Eight-year car loans drive sales and deepen Canadians’ debt problemsquote:Collins said she bought her car three weeks ago with financing of about $30,000. “I wanted to stretch it out,” she said of her loan, as it meant that “my payments were smaller.” Asked if she was worried about any extra risk from adding a year to her loan, she said using the option for accelerated payments may end up improving her credit score. “It makes my credit look good.” 
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Aug 21, 2014 21:48
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Yeah people only look at the monthly cost of servicing, not the total cost of borrowing.
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Aug 21, 2014 21:54
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The lengthening of car loan terms as well as car manufacturers now advertising their lease/financing rates as bi-weekly instead of monthly is just another indicator that poo poo just isn't as affordable as it used to be.
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Aug 21, 2014 22:29
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EvilJoven posted:The lengthening of car loan terms as well as car manufacturers now advertising their lease/financing rates as bi-weekly instead of monthly is just another indicator that poo poo just isn't as affordable as it used to be. Or people are spending way beyond their means. But maybe it's because they're loving stupid. 30k for a loving dodge journey? what in tapdancing christ
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Aug 21, 2014 22:52
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Cultural Imperial posted:Or people are spending way beyond their means. But maybe it's because they're loving stupid. 30k for a loving dodge journey? what in tapdancing christ Working at a Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram dealer group, I see this every day. I advertise all our vehicles on a 96 month term at 4.29% interest. Stupid low payments. No equity? No problem! Negative equity? We'll roll it in! The amount of garbage paper being bought by TD, RBC, and other banks to fund these purchases makes my stomach churn. Sell your bank shares.
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Aug 22, 2014 01:06
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Rhobot Mk. II posted:Working at a Chrysler Jeep Dodge Ram dealer group, I see this every day. I advertise all our vehicles on a 96 month term at 4.29% interest. Stupid low payments. No equity? No problem! Negative equity? We'll roll it in! Yeah, this correlates with a lot of tweets I'm seeing from finance guys moaning about the growth of subprime car lending in the US. I wasn't sure if it was happening in Canada though.
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Aug 22, 2014 01:19
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http://www.investmentexecutive.com/-/canadian-economy-s-growth-potential-enters-a-new-era-desjardinsquote:The growth potential of the Canadian economy looks destined to be weaker for the years ahead, which will weigh on profits, and ultimately stocks, too, says Desjardins Group in a new report. ~soft landing achieved~
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Aug 22, 2014 02:27
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There's no reason that real estate can't be like any other natural resource boom, in that it will cripple your real economy by creating an artificially high currency value.
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Aug 22, 2014 02:31
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on the left posted:There's no reason that real estate can't be like any other natural resource boom, in that it will cripple your real economy by creating an artificially high currency value. By selling them to foreign buyers?
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Aug 22, 2014 02:34
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Cultural Imperial posted:By selling them to foreign buyers? Yeah, if you have tons of foreign money moving into Canada to park, it has a similar effect to China buying a lot of goods. Except it's a capital investment, so the money doesn't get kept in Canada as it would if China bought goods and services. So in a sense, the money is just waiting to leave Canada.
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Aug 22, 2014 02:38
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on the left posted:Yeah, if you have tons of foreign money moving into Canada to park, it has a similar effect to China buying a lot of goods. Except it's a capital investment, so the money doesn't get kept in Canada as it would if China bought goods and services. So in a sense, the money is just waiting to leave Canada. The loonie is doing a yeoman job of losing its value right now in the middle of a housing boom (or soft landing). All things being equal, housing is just housing and I can get more value for it in, say, Seattle than I can in Vancouver. It's much more easily arbitraged than a commodity like copper, oil, concentrated OJ or pork bellies.
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Aug 22, 2014 02:48
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Cultural Imperial posted:After 2030, growth in hours worked is expected to accelerate somewhat, it says, which will "open the door to slightly higher growth potential for real GDP." Cool, so I guess I can wait until I'm 45 to start my career after all. 
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Aug 22, 2014 04:02
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Cultural Imperial posted:Or people are spending way beyond their means. But maybe it's because they're loving stupid. 30k for a loving dodge journey? what in tapdancing christ 30k? Haha, that's below the median price for new car sales in Alberta for the past couple of years. There's much, much worse going on. I think there's a valid raison d'etre for what I would call "counter-intuitive" financial vehicles, like bonds with 100-year maturities and so forth, but allowing for greater levels of consumer debt is most certainly not one of them. gently caress me, at least a house isn't guaranteed to depreciate rapidly...
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Aug 22, 2014 06:25
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