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madmac posted:The Age of Wonders series has always been about playing random maps by yourself (Or co-op!) or multiplayer with friends, that's where the real fun is. The campaigns are just a bonus, and frankly always tended to be balls hard compared to just dicking around with the AI on random maps. I have to disagree here, the campaigns in AoW1 and Shadow Magic (less so in 2) were a really huge part of the game and if anything the campaign is why I love AoW1. I can't bring myself to play the campaign in 3 because I absolutely hate city founding and there doesn't seem to be a way to disable it when you're not playing a random map! It's sad, I feel like I haven't really played it at all because of that.
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Jul 29, 2014 01:21
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Taear posted:I have to disagree here, the campaigns in AoW1 and Shadow Magic (less so in 2) were a really huge part of the game and if anything the campaign is why I love AoW1. That's an oddly specific complaint, in my experience city founding barely plays a role in AOW 3 campaign play at all. Mind you, I don't bother building cities outside of the scripted events giving me pioneers to build in certain locations and the AI isn't big on expanding either, so eh. I do dislike the city density on most of the campaign maps, though. Cities everywhere, and far too many overlapping domains. I'm not hating on the campaigns exactly, it's just that they're very different from normal play for a variety of reasons. I never played the original so I can't really comment there. I did beat the first AoW 2 campaign all the way to the last mission, where I sunk a bajillion hours in, realized I goofed and couldn't summon the willpower to restart the unbelievably gigantic map. Never finished the Shadow Magic Campaign for whatever reason. It seemed like I'd always get a whole bunch of missions/hours in and then screw myself over with saves somehow. On a side note, I've never liked the save system in AoW, especially for campaigns. I always end up having to create and manage a crapload of custom saves and restart points for myself because the game just keeps a single autosave, it's aggravating. Compare to any given HOMM game which automatically creates something like 10 rotating auto-saves and lets you re-play any mission you've unlocked by selecting it directly from the campaign menu. madmac fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jul 29, 2014 |
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Jul 29, 2014 01:46
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madmac posted:That's an oddly specific complaint, in my experience city founding barely plays a role in AOW 3 campaign play at all. Mind you, I don't bother building cities outside of the scripted events giving me pioneers to build in certain locations and the AI isn't big on expanding either, so eh. One of the post-release patches changed AoW3 saves so that you get an automatic save on the turn you win a campaign. So you can pick up the campaign from any point, if you've finished it (eg. the torchbearer/loyalist branches)
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Jul 29, 2014 08:09
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madmac posted:That's an oddly specific complaint, in my experience city founding barely plays a role in AOW 3 campaign play at all. Mind you, I don't bother building cities outside of the scripted events giving me pioneers to build in certain locations and the AI isn't big on expanding either, so eh. I enjoy taking my time but I also want battles to matter and the only way for both of these to happen is few cities and no founding, unfortunately.
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Jul 29, 2014 12:23
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Maybe it's just me wanting the game to be something different than what is is, but something I missed in the campaign was more isolated strategic challenges to approach and overcome. Once you "start" the enemy (usually early) in each campaign level, the entire map starts working toward your annihilation, forcing a constant pace of conquest until you've either won or at least neutered every enemy's ability to fight you (usually the same thing). This could perhaps take the form of enemy AI empires that don't actively seek to completely destroy the player, but just works to defend and reclaim the domains they start with (plus maybe anything they settle or acquire from independents). While and after resecuring their own domains, they would then pursue retaliation against the player for a limited time, maybe or maybe not succeeding in conquering additional domains, before "resetting" to minding their own business and maintaining a defense force proportional to what they believe the player to have. The period of retaliation could vary to be scenario- and enemy-specific (being infinite where the player is meant to be under constant attack), and allied AI empires would send support to allies under attack, but also reset along with the attacked AI or sometime after the attacked AI is annihilated. I think if this could be done, it would do a lot to make the campaign scenarios feel less like an exhausting rush toward the end. It would for example allow the player to take more of a breather between invading AI opponents in succession and use that to explore the newly unlocked parts of the map. And instead of getting stale-mated and having to restart when the forces you brought for an invasion turns out insufficient, you have the option of retreating and ceding the territory you took, focus on defending yourself for the duration of the retaliation period, then rebuild for another try without also having to reverse the AI's momentum.
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Jul 29, 2014 13:25
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I got a chance to try this game and it's awesome. I'm deciding when and where to buy it. I know there's DLC and an upcoming expansion. You guys think there might be a package deal when that hits? I also don't see mention of DLC on any store pages. Is it just included for everyone at this point? Sucks I missed the 50% Steam sale. That probably won't happen again anytime soon. I see it for $24 on mmoga.com but that site also sells WoW gold and poo poo so it's kinda sketchy.
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Jul 29, 2014 23:08
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The expansion hasn't officially been announced yet, but dev talk on the forums suggests late Sept/Oct as a probable timeframe. I can't speak to package deals happening or not. As for DLC there isn't any to speak of at this point, just some bonus scenarios that came as a pre-order bonus. I have no idea if those are still available.
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Jul 29, 2014 23:34
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Oh I've just seen patch notes saying stuff like "you can access DLC as a Guest now" and figured that...there must be DLC. I guess I'll pick it up now then.
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Jul 30, 2014 02:42
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I just assumed everyone played this game because it was a decent master of magic like. MoM didn't even have a campaign.
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Jul 30, 2014 05:05
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I realise I'm probs missing out but I never played the first 3 game's campaigns and I'm not about to start now
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Jul 30, 2014 09:15
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I don't think you're missing out. I thought the campaigns were going to be multiple maps with an overarching story, but the Elf campaign at least was just one tiny map with a little back story and a predetermined way to play. The Human one might be better because mine was the beginner campaign I think, but even then you end up in custom maps after two games tops.
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Jul 30, 2014 18:09
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The Royal Scrub posted:I don't think you're missing out. I thought the campaigns were going to be multiple maps with an overarching story, but the Elf campaign at least was just one tiny map with a little back story and a predetermined way to play. The Human one might be better because mine was the beginner campaign I think, but even then you end up in custom maps after two games tops. But there are multiple maps with an overarching story  Both campaigns are 6 maps long, 9 if you count the fact that the story branches in map 3...
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Jul 30, 2014 22:08
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Yeah, im slightly confused too. Man i need to finish up the two campaigns. 
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Jul 30, 2014 23:44
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I finished the torchbearer campaigns, but I really should go back and do the Loyalist paths at some point. More importantly, a small beta batch just went up on Steam. Bug fixes. quote:Hi everybody, Optimization fixes are always welcome.
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Jul 30, 2014 23:48
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Gerblyn posted:But there are multiple maps with an overarching story Aw what the hell, it kicked me back to the main menu after the first map and I couldn't find anything but starting a new campaign or reloading the map I already won. I'm glad I said something now, thanks man. Campaigns are cool again 
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Jul 30, 2014 23:53
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By any chance when you first started playing the game did you hit the big 'Continue Game' button in the middle? Because AFAIK that thing is still bugged and sends you to a mission in the middle of the elf campaign if you haven't actually played a game yet.
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Jul 31, 2014 00:53
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I think I did do that, some tooltip said we recommend starting with the Elf campaign and it was pointing to that button. I feel like the one I played could have been the first mission though, it was the Elf chick's brother getting killed and then I teamed up with the Draconians to kill Orcs.
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Jul 31, 2014 02:25
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The Royal Scrub posted:I think I did do that, some tooltip said we recommend starting with the Elf campaign and it was pointing to that button. I feel like the one I played could have been the first mission though, it was the Elf chick's brother getting killed and then I teamed up with the Draconians to kill Orcs. Yeah, thats the first elf one.
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Jul 31, 2014 06:26
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Rabhadh posted:I realise I'm probs missing out but I never played the first 3 game's campaigns and I'm not about to start now You're definitely missing out with AoW1, it's easily the best campaign in any game of this style. I know that isn't saying much, but it's there.
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Aug 6, 2014 01:57
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Taear posted:You're definitely missing out with AoW1, it's easily the best campaign in any game of this style. I know that isn't saying much, but it's there. uuuuuggggh the dwwwarrrf missionsss I guess if you avoid those, it's a fun campaign. All of the endings are  as hell unless you slog through that level set, though.
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Aug 6, 2014 03:03
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I wonder what Triumph is going to show off at gamescom that they haven't already talked about. Official announcement of expansion race/class? I know people have mentioned ideas for making spells that aren't summons or nukes more attractive, and people have mentioned wanting to cast multiple tactical spells a turn with various ways to implement that. What if the ability to toss one additional spell was linked to a hero perk you had to get from a level up, even a leader-specific one? That would make the leader feel more important without making all-hero stacks monstrously powerful. The perk could even be split into different schools to only give an additional spell of a certain type (buff, nuke, etc). That goes along with a popular suggestion people had of allowing a spell of each type to be cast each turn. It could also be limited by spell tier, only allowing low power spells, with additional perks to raise that tier limitation. I know the devs mentioned they were looking into the possibility of some buffs AoE or something to make them more attractive, this could be another option. The disjunct/dispel mechanic changes should help buffs as well, since they won't be quite as easy to wipe off. edit: If they throw in more hero cosmetic options, I desperately hope for a top hat so necromancers can look like Baron Samedi. Something I just noticed introducing friends to the game - the treasure site dungeon difficulty levels are not at all intuitive to new players. The descriptions for them tend to be synonyms: "epic" "mythical" - these do not clearly describe the level of danger within them. They follow a pretty clear tier of power system, but that isn't readily apparent to a player new to the game at all. Is there no way to trade units via diplomacy? Being able to gift units (even if you can only do stacks so that units don't end up on top of each other, it is easy enough to move units out of a stack) would make both diplomacy and alignment have a little more weight to them when it comes to alignment specific units. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 08:09
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Carnalfex posted:I wonder what Triumph is going to show off at gamescom that they haven't already talked about. Official announcement of expansion race/class? If you end up watching and want to update us then I for one would be interested to read it. As for the buffs and spell casting stuff, I'm tempted to say it's fine the way it is. Spells are already incredibly powerful. Letting someone throw out an extra buff or worse yet a second nuke or debuff every round would just be ridiculous. I definitely get that some spells aren't worth it for long or ever, but those individual spells should just be reworked IMO. Maybe they could implement tier levels with spells. Say at Hero level 5 and 9, some spells improve. Whether it's chance to stick a debuff, or AoE/chain on a buff, or straight up more damage on a nuke, that could be a very cool system. They could also use the opportunity to even out the more popular spells that can potentially one-shot units for the first 10-20 turns.
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Aug 14, 2014 21:58
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The Royal Scrub posted:Maybe they could implement tier levels with spells. Say at Hero level 5 and 9, some spells improve. Whether it's chance to stick a debuff, or AoE/chain on a buff, or straight up more damage on a nuke, that could be a very cool system. They could also use the opportunity to even out the more popular spells that can potentially one-shot units for the first 10-20 turns. This is something I hadn't heard anyone suggest before. I like it. The multiple spells / turn issue is really twofold : in a game about being a wizard lord you don't spend a lot of time wizarding, and having multiple heroes in a fight (even if they are from different stacks) means only one gets to throw out a spell. I get that having armies of all heroes nuking would turn fights into "I saw you first", which is why people have been throwing out all those other suggestions - some kind of middle ground that makes magic use feel meaningful without being the only viable strategy. I've been looking for gamescom streams from Triumph but so far have only seen news from some of the bigger companies, EA and blizzard and the like. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 22:07
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Well the thing with spells is that they're already really powerful for the entire game, at least offensively. I think where there's room for improvement is letting you use magic differently than just just dropping your best nuke. My first character I made a Creation Master Warlord thinking awesome, it'll play like a Paladin. But really it's hardly different than any other Warlord game and that's a missed opportunity. I hope with the expansion they just add more mid/late game non-nukes. Most current buffs just aren't going to get used any time I can attack or nuke instead. The spell tiers thing would at least let spells scale without them just being broken or useless depending on the phase of the game. Balance is a whole other thing though. It's more simple than most ideas and it's still a huge change that a lot of people probably wouldn't welcome. I think it comes down to just balancing existing options while hopefully filling in the gaps with the expansion. Good non-nukes exist, like Static Sphere and Wind Ward. Spells like that allow for different strategies and that's fun.
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Aug 14, 2014 23:58
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According to the official forums, the expansion news will be released "after Gamescon" and "Soon". So in the next week, maybe? I'll be keeping an eye out for any announcements.
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Aug 15, 2014 14:43
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Finally finished the elf campaign. This is one of the most frustrating games I've ever played because the core gameplay is good, but the campaign missions are so shittily designed. (Can't not play the campaign either, because of OCD.) That last mission must have taken me 2 weeks with constant restarting. loving hell.
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Aug 15, 2014 15:11
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pigdog posted:Finally finished the elf campaign. This is one of the most frustrating games I've ever played because the core gameplay is good, but the campaign missions are so shittily designed. (Can't not play the campaign either, because of OCD.) That last mission must have taken me 2 weeks with constant restarting. loving hell. Which branch of the elf campaign? I found that the torchbearer elf campaign wasn't too hard because you get quite a few heroes at max level, and you can simply fly around Sundren with a stack or two of flyers and assassinate each players leaders one by one (Throne teleport reroute works on every leader, not just the two you need to get to win, and puts you at peace with anyone you've captured). The loyalist campaign is harder because you have less heroes and your allies are crap
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Aug 16, 2014 02:59
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You do not know difficult until you do Commonwealth 6. Stumbled into that one as my first finale. It's great to do a mission without any heroes but your general on your side. At least with Elf 6 you have Reskar and... Gorlash? The orc dude
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Aug 16, 2014 06:28
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Why is the second beginner mission kicking my rear end so badly? How do I do Draconians? I love this game why am I so bad at it. Although, I'm thinking I should make more stacks that aren't headed by heroes. That feels wrong somehow, but I really, really don't know how to play this game right.
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Aug 18, 2014 12:47
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Veyrall posted:Why is the second beginner mission kicking my rear end so badly? How do I do Draconians? I love this game why am I so bad at it. On that mission there's a great bottleneck if you push left through the desert and take that 1 AI city pretty early. Just watch out for the cave at the top of that desert area as well. I did that, built 3 or 4 cities of my own, and turtled for ~20 turns before wiping the map no contest. The early summons aren't great, but Summon Gargantuan Animal has a chance to summon a T4 unit and Horned Gods are drat powerful (siege AI  )As for Draconians, let's see. I like Chargers. Charge can really hurt and Pikemen+First Strike are good. I ignore Hatchlings and go for Flamers because they stay useful longer. Luckily as a Druid you can also get out some Hunters pretty quickly. Other than that, Draconian Elders have a cool buff and I love Draconian Flyers for flanking wide in sieges.
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Aug 18, 2014 16:10
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Finally got around to buying and downloading this after having loving the first 2 games in the series and I'm very very happy with my purchase. It really captures the feel of the first two games while adding a whole new element. I'm learning the ropes on a random map as a Draconian Warlord and it's been pretty fun so far. Only things I really need to understand are the actual strengths of independant units / dungeons as I'm probably being overly cautious about attacking things at the moment. One question I have is a bout mines/towers etc. that you take that are outside of your zone of control. Do they provide any benefit at all?
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Aug 19, 2014 02:40
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PotatoManJack posted:Finally got around to buying and downloading this after having loving the first 2 games in the series and I'm very very happy with my purchase. It really captures the feel of the first two games while adding a whole new element. You won't get benefit from resource structures outside your city domains unless you claim them with a fort. You can still grab and hold Watchtowers independently, though.
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Aug 19, 2014 02:44
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You also get the bonus of clearing the node out, which is usually a lump of resources and the XP from murdering the natives. 
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Aug 19, 2014 08:36
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The Royal Scrub posted:Useful tips.
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Aug 19, 2014 09:11
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Veyrall posted:I thank you immensely. Draconian Druid also gets Draconian Shamans, which can be very powerful versatile. Use their fire bolts against goblins and orcs since they resist poison Tip - in tactical combat you can farm xp for some spellcasters and heros by having them constantly cast spell abilities on whatever friendly unit is nearby - dispel magic is the easiest for this, but other ones can work too. You can siege a city, and just sit away from the walls with your spellcasters having a wankfest until they level up. Bonus points if you manage to take an AI city which has a settler in its army - the settler just flees to the back, and you can surround it casting entangling touch and every now and then hitting it (because if combat goes on too long without something being damaged it becomes a draw)
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Aug 19, 2014 10:13
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I love how much the map looks like AoW I, it was my favorite game ever. I'm filled with emotion just reading about this game.
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Aug 19, 2014 10:26
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Those official forums sure are something. With gamescom over we should hopefully be hearing something from Triumph soon.
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Aug 20, 2014 19:35
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Aw poo poo son http://ageofwonders.com/golden-realms-expansion-announced/
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Aug 21, 2014 16:43
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I thought there was going to be a necromancer class!Triumph posted:September 18th 2014 Nevermind. Expansion gonna own.
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Aug 21, 2014 16:59
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"Guarded by a horrible puke monster" Speakin' our language.  Wild magic gonna own
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Aug 21, 2014 17:06
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