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Wachter posted:Because tits, I guess? Yes but there are plenty of better T&A-showcase costumes that get paraded around all the time at Marvel and DC alike, is my point. She-Hulk, Black Cat, Carol Danvers, pretty much every single lady on the X-roster, Sue goddamn Storm, and the list goes on. Why is Spider-woman the one that seems to most-often hit artists' "lack of grace" button? Nothing about her outfit is particularly appealing beyond being skintight and framing her tits, qualities which all the other female characters I've mentioned also have in spades. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:It's cause the character was brought back because she was one of Bendis' adolescent sexual fantasies. Her inexplicable allure was even a plot point. I know that but even Bendis can't possibly have the kind-of clout that no one on a team of experts in visual craft hasn't said at one point or another "Wow her costume is really loving ugly and needs an update."
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Aug 21, 2014 21:59
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zoux posted:Was Bendis the one that invented the pheromones thing? The sexual allure pheromones thing, I think so, yeah. Before she used them to strike fear into the hearts of men. But I could be wrong.
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Aug 21, 2014 21:59
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Amusingly enough, a couple years ago, I commissioned a piece from Rafael Albuquerque with Spider-woman and Ms. Marvel (Danvers). What I got is probably one of the least exploitative and restrained pieces I've ever seen of either character on top of being utterly amazing.
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Aug 21, 2014 22:03
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Carol's old uniform is pretty risque as well, but yeah that dude did a good job minimizing the overt sexuality. More than once reading old Ms. Marvel stuff I was like, how is that costume staying out of her vagina.
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Aug 21, 2014 22:06
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Unstable molecules is always the answer, sadly.
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Aug 21, 2014 22:09
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mind the walrus posted:Unstable molecules is always the answer, sadly. Tell me this has not actually been addressed in a comic book.
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Aug 21, 2014 22:12
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The fact that you even think it could have been says a lot, doesn't it?
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Aug 21, 2014 22:13
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mind the walrus posted:Why is Spider-woman the one that seems to most-often hit artists' "lack of grace" button? This, I can't answer. The pheromone power makes her costume especially redundant. If you have the magic power to make men fall in love with you, why the big titty body stocking? But follow this line of thinking to its ultimate destination and you end up at "why wear a costume at all?", with a rest stop at "is wearing the same brightly-coloured uniform every day really the best way to preserve your anonymity?" You can make the same observation that Alan Moore did in Watchmen: that superheroes/villains are all, to some degree, insane perverts indulging in sadomasochistic exhibitionist orgies in their dayglo gimp suits (as if that justifies anything), but it's probably simpler and more realistic to say, yeah, tits and Bendis. I don't have an LCS anywhere near me, nor do I follow sales numbers, so I can't say for certain that tits sell books, but I'd bet you real money that both Marvel and DC think they do. Hence why, out of all the possible permutations of ink and pencil that can go on the front of a comic book, we still get the Manara Spider-Woman and Red Hood & The Outlaws #32 in TYOOL 2014.
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Aug 21, 2014 22:31
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The thing is, it is highly erotic, and always has been. That's why they wear the underwear on the outside to begin with. Skintight Ken and Barbie stuff actually seems way creepier to me since they clearly aren't wearing any clothes and there is no attempt to depict "material". Spider Woman's costume is just straight up a painted nude. Not for nothing do they give Manara work, you get what you're asking for there. Why be coy, as long as we're doing this thing? So, to confirm, it's fine to color a nude figure as long as you draw lines where the underwear should be and make it a different color? But, if you don't do this, it's sexual.
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Aug 21, 2014 23:54
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Well..... yeah? Haven't you paid any attention at all to superhero pin-ups (of both genders) for the last 30 years? It's the most open secret the industry has.
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Aug 21, 2014 23:55
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Any drawing where you can actually see the full indentation of their belly button is just completely ridiculous.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:11
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RevKrule posted:Amusingly enough, a couple years ago, I commissioned a piece from Rafael Albuquerque with Spider-woman and Ms. Marvel (Danvers). What I got is probably one of the least exploitative and restrained pieces I've ever seen of either character on top of being utterly amazing. Super cool looking piece. I really like it.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:17
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MY ABACUS! posted:So, to confirm, it's fine to color a nude figure as long as you draw lines where the underwear should be and make it a different color? But, if you don't do this, it's sexual. What do you object to? Are these not idealized, eroticized bodies with the nipples taped down? I'll go to bat for Manara, he's not pretending.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:20
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Dacap posted:Any drawing where you can actually see the full indentation of their belly button is just completely ridiculous. You don't vacuum pack yourself into your clothes? Man, you're really missing out.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:20
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I wasn't the one objecting. I just found it amusing that people's problem with the Spiderwoman drawing was just that her crotch doesn't have panty lines on the sides.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:23
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MY ABACUS! posted:I wasn't the one objecting. I just found it amusing that people's problem with the Spiderwoman drawing was just that her crotch doesn't have panty lines on the sides. Its more the pose.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:26
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Its more the pose. Google "Spider-man crawling".
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Aug 22, 2014 00:34
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MY ABACUS! posted:Google "Spider-man crawling". No, I agree, but I'm not going to pretend there's nothing else staring you in the face.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:35
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That's one of the first valid uses of the "male superheroes are like that too" I've ever seen, but even then I'd say that the majority of Spider-man crawling poses are usually in the context of him doing something while this is clearly designed as a pin-up by virtue of being a cover, which makes the whole doggy-style pose stand out more, and for the record I've noticed the same thing on Spider-man covers.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:38
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I challenge anyone to find a picture of Spider-Man with equivalent plunging rear end-cleavage.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:39
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Spidey is one of the few heroes that legitimately does get loving rear end shots so that does tip it a little.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:41
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Is this the part of the conversation where someone says that male superheroes are also idealized?
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Aug 22, 2014 00:42
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Lurdiak posted:Is this the part of the conversation where someone says that male superheroes are also idealized? They are, but the typical comic book artist has no idea what's sexually appealing about men's bodies.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:44
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Or more accurately the vast majority of artists draw men in poses of idealized power fantasies and not sexual fantasies.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:49
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I've always suspected that when Spider-woman crawled it was for sex but when Spider-man did it, it was for spidering.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:51
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MY ABACUS! posted:I've always suspected that when Spider-woman crawled it was for sex but when Spider-man did it, it was for spidering. A literal superpower of hers is that she's sexually manipulative and predatory. The male equivalent would be Daken, I think.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:52
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MY ABACUS! posted:I've always suspected that when Spider-woman crawled it was for sex but when Spider-man did it, it was for spidering. Yes that is exactly what I said you win master of paraphrasing award 2014. 
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Aug 22, 2014 00:54
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zoux posted:From Electra #5 by Mike Del Mundo. Thanks for these. Somebody posted a bunch of his poo poo several pages back and it made me look him up. Dude is amazing.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:54
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mind the walrus posted:Yes but there are plenty of better T&A-showcase costumes that get paraded around all the time at Marvel and DC alike, is my point. She-Hulk, Black Cat, Carol Danvers, pretty much every single lady on the X-roster, Sue goddamn Storm, and the list goes on. Why is Spider-woman the one that seems to most-often hit artists' "lack of grace" button? Nothing about her outfit is particularly appealing beyond being skintight and framing her tits, qualities which all the other female characters I've mentioned also have in spades. I've always thought the inherently sexy thing about Spider-Woman's costume is to envision the yellow sections as sheer or transparent or just not there at all. Cho and Maleev definitely picked up on this.
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Aug 22, 2014 02:59
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Wachter posted:I challenge anyone to find a picture of Spider-Man with equivalent plunging rear end-cleavage. 
Insomniac fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 05:12
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Eh, that isn't really plunging. Though a lot of time was spent crafting that rear end.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:34
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I knew Dan Slott would reveal his account given enough time. (C'mon now that Spider-Man piece isn't done in a sexual way)
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Aug 22, 2014 07:07
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Aug 22, 2014 11:42
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Shut up about butts. Here's a neat page from this week's Ms. Marvel. Follow 'em from the ladder up.  Ms. Marvel #7
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Aug 22, 2014 16:19
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BiggerBoat posted:Thanks for these. Somebody posted a bunch of his poo poo several pages back and it made me look him up. Dude is amazing. What's cool about them also is that they directly relate to an element of the story in the book. Looking at them beforehand you wouldn't get it but after reading the comic you could look at it again and know exactly how it relates to the story. Covers often have nothing to do with what's going on in the book and it's cool to see an artist be both creative and relevant. Separate question: Are there no more "iconic" covers or panels anymore? Most of us could list off a number of iconic art pieces and most of us would agree (Silver Surfer falling, "now it's my turn", "We would have words with thee", etc.) and many of these pieces are referenced/homaged many many times by current artists. So what is the latest panel or cover that you would argue is iconic that you think most fans would agree with?
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Aug 22, 2014 16:21
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zoux posted:Are there no more "iconic" covers or panels anymore? I dunno if it did for a lot of people, but the cold opening page for the Batman RIP storyline has stuck with me for six years now.  Then with "six months earlier" the story starts. e: Almost a decde old now, but there's the cover of All-Star Superman #1.  ee: Ms. Marvel #1's has got to be up there for recent years.  These days with as few people reading comic books as there are, you can't expect too much to catch on ubiquitously, unless maybe for the wrong reasons. Spider-Woman's butt probably has the best chance out of any other piece of art this year. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 16:42
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Teenage Fansub posted:ee: Ms. Marvel #1's has got to be up there for recent years.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:20
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Teenage Fansub posted:Shut up about butts. Here's a neat page from this week's Ms. Marvel. Why the hell do I wanna say I've seen that gemstone formation in the bottom left before? At the same time as it's kinda generic, it's also kinda not, but I can't recall where exactly. Then again, for some reason someone scrawled what I think is the Konami code on the wall. Also a Super Mario brick, for whatever reason.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:13
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Bloodly posted:Why the hell do I wanna say I've seen that gemstone formation in the bottom left before? At the same time as it's kinda generic, it's also kinda not, but I can't recall where exactly. Lego?
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Aug 22, 2014 18:40
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zoux posted:From Electra #5 by Mike Del Mundo. These are all really good and cool, but SADD is my favorite Scuba Trooper fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 18:47
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