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PelvicNerve posted:I'm pointing this out because this means that Reed and friends were willing to let things deteriorate further for the multiverse, while Thanos and his murderous friends are actually saving universes. That's hosed up. If they're not willing to play the game they should at least evacuate Earth.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:13
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Somewhere in a parallel universe, a badoon is naming his kid Namor. He's like a multiversal hero of Canton.
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Aug 22, 2014 00:27
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Can you really call it 'saving' if all it's doing is delaying the eventual destruction longer? It's still the same 'great evil for the greater good ultimately accelerates the problem' situation that New Avengers is centralized around. The Black Priests, Mapmakers and Builders are all also doing the exact same poo poo for the exact same reasons (presumably, considering they're all built around some of the core members of the Illuminati who are active during the incursions) and boy have they been shown to not really be real problem solvers, either!
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Aug 22, 2014 02:24
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It's basically the only chance they have. Also little tidbit afterlifes aren't multiversal so when the universe and it's fundamental elements gets destroyed it's actual destruction not just death. It's probably why Thanos is involved Death is a fundamental force in the universe and is threatened by the incursions.
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Aug 22, 2014 02:38
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Doesn't blowing up your Earth take you out of the rotation? Although I can see the Illuminati/Cabal not doing that because it doesn't really "solve" the problem and this story isn't going to end until they stop whatever is causing incursions in the first place.
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Aug 22, 2014 03:22
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muscles like this? posted:Doesn't blowing up your Earth take you out of the rotation? Although I can see the Illuminati/Cabal not doing that because it doesn't really "solve" the problem and this story isn't going to end until they stop whatever is causing incursions in the first place. The Cabal wouldn't blow up this Earth because, hey, Thanos gets a pretty much infinite amount of worlds to kill this way, and Namor isn't interested in that solution.
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Aug 22, 2014 03:38
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Can't wait for it all to end with the Cabal, the Mapmakers, Black Priests and Builders to finally find the source of the incurcions and all storm in to the right dimension and find none other than... Doctor Doom revealing it was all a scheme to get at Reed that got out of control. (If Reed had just asked for Doom's help at the dinner table he would've stopped the incursions)
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Aug 22, 2014 03:43
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muscles like this? posted:Doesn't blowing up your Earth take you out of the rotation? Although I can see the Illuminati/Cabal not doing that because it doesn't really "solve" the problem and this story isn't going to end until they stop whatever is causing incursions in the first place. Blowing up your own Earth doesn't save your Universe. It only delays it.
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Aug 22, 2014 04:22
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And removes your ability to even try to fix things. I'm surprised we haven't seen any of the established alternate Earths. There's got to be a few of those that nobody will use again.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:26
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Aphrodite posted:And removes your ability to even try to fix things. It would be slightly funny if they just killed Zombie Earth and no one cared.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:32
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Aphrodite posted:And removes your ability to even try to fix things. They could use the Iron Maniac Earth from Marvel Team-Up.
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Aug 22, 2014 07:19
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So the preview for Avenger's 34 is up. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=23188 Hey it's Iron-Lad, and Cap remembered his name. Hopefully we will get some explanation about what is really going on with the Incursions.
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Aug 22, 2014 12:23
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Aphrodite posted:And removes your ability to even try to fix things.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:43
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I wonder who Black Bolt is more mad at, Maximus for betraying him or himself for bring Maximus into the fold in the first place?
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Aug 22, 2014 16:30
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Starsnostars posted:I wonder who Black Bolt is more mad at, Maximus for betraying him or himself for bring Maximus into the fold in the first place? I dunno, is it really betraying him? I guess working with Thanos is something of a betrayal, but Maximus isn't trying to steal the crown away or kill Black Bolt, so I imagine he wouldn't be too pissed.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:32
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For all you know this is a long con by Black Bolt as he will be informed of what they are doing.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:35
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God, it would be great if Black Bolt pointed out the Namor thing because he was like 'holy poo poo black panther you idiot, how the gently caress is that your first conclusion' and didn't want to spend three days listening to their emo nonsense while poo poo needs doing, and he just knew all along but couldn't be that patient. I keep forgetting to post this but I absolutely love the utterly oblique symbolism in the Namor speech page. It is so on the nose and just works so perfectly. I would be shocked if it wasn't a reference to an earlier panel.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:46
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Spiderdrake posted:God, it would be great if Black Bolt pointed out the Namor thing because he was like 'holy poo poo black panther you idiot, how the gently caress is that your first conclusion' and didn't want to spend three days listening to their emo nonsense while poo poo needs doing, and he just knew all along but couldn't be that patient. You mean the actual speech and layout of the Cabal? It's nearly identical to the introduction of the Illuminati in NA 2. http://imgur.com/a/jNarP
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Aug 22, 2014 16:57
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Spiderdrake posted:I would be shocked if it wasn't a reference to an earlier panel.
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Aug 22, 2014 16:59
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Yeah. Every version of the illuminati and the justice league were introduced with that speech or a variation of. And it's loving awesome every time it happens. Ideally Thanks gets to deliver that speech to Cap while saving the universe. Thanos - literally savior of the universe.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:01
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bobkatt013 posted:For all you know this is a long con by Black Bolt as he will be informed of what they are doing. Maybe but a long con involving releasing the Cabal from their cells seems a little risky, back in Infinity even Thanos decided against releasing Black Swan and letting her run wild.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:07
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hope and vaseline posted:You mean the actual speech and layout of the Cabal? It's nearly identical to the introduction of the Illuminati in NA 2.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:25
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Compared to Reed who wore white at the start (by Hickman's prev story) along with being some old dude who eventually kicked off Namor from his "kingdom" drat that's obvious now that you point it out
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Aug 22, 2014 18:00
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Deadpool posted:Blowing up your own Earth doesn't save your Universe. It only delays it. I thought it saves the universe but forever cuts off contact with other universes, so no more Beyonder.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:22
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The more I think about this issue the more the NA are pissing me off. As said above this whole time they've been staying in this game so that they could solve the whole problem, they finally get their hands dirty and then poof they become pathetic quitters willing to let everyone they love die and stop trying to fix the universe for their precious false morality. I hope the Cabal and the Avengers team up to throw the NA into the negative zone.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:23
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Yawgmoft posted:The more I think about this issue the more the NA are pissing me off. As said above this whole time they've been staying in this game so that they could solve the whole problem, they finally get their hands dirty and then poof they become pathetic quitters willing to let everyone they love die and stop trying to fix the universe for their precious false morality. I hope the Cabal and the Avengers team up to throw the NA into the negative zone. So the ones who show regret about having to kill earths should be punished but the ones that relish in it should be supported? They did make a mistake not bringing this to everyone, and that is the start of their downfall. However, this issue was all about them facing their actions and now are going to try to make up for them.
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Aug 22, 2014 18:28
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Zachack posted:I thought it saves the universe but forever cuts off contact with other universes, so no more Beyonder. The incursions will eventually destroy the entire multiverse even the cut off ones when they hit a certain tipping point. SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 18:31
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Yawgmoft posted:The more I think about this issue the more the NA are pissing me off. As said above this whole time they've been staying in this game so that they could solve the whole problem, they finally get their hands dirty and then poof they become pathetic quitters willing to let everyone they love die and stop trying to fix the universe for their precious false morality. I hope the Cabal and the Avengers team up to throw the NA into the negative zone. Yeah dude I agree those fuckin' pussy rear end quitters should just get used to genociding folks for the greater good especially with how incursions get faster every time they do it so they definitely gotta get used to it faster, especially with how they're accelerating the overall problem while not coming up with any solution for it with their tiny genocide club. Preventive war is definitely the most just type of war! It's really strange to think that this whole thing is apparently going to end so soon because Hickman is doing a fantastic job in selling the impossible scope and choices of the Incursion. I really can't wait to have the full collection between Avengers and New Avengers to see just how much everything is tied together thematically.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:17
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So Original Sins 5 came out and for a spin off side series it had some amazing stuff in it. I don't want to spoil it but there is a conversation between Nick Fury and Dum Dum Duggan that is not only badass, but it also is perfectly applicable to the Illuminati's whole operation. If no one has posted the scans by this evening I'll do it.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:24
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Unlettered preview of Avengers #35, the first issue of Time Runs Out. http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=23204 Looks Hawkeye joined the robot arm club along with Thor. And Hickman said on twitter that the guy with the wristbands is Amadeus Cho. Horrible Taste fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 20:49
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Fereydun posted:It's really strange to think that this whole thing is apparently going to end so soon because Hickman is doing a fantastic job in selling the impossible scope and choices of the Incursion. It's really simple, actually. You either agree to kill other worlds, or you agree to die trying something else. The end. The problem with the Illuminati is they took this big stand about being willing to do what was required, up to and including mind-raping Captain America and building world killing weapons, but when the time came they punked out in the most extreme way possible. Even when there is time left to tell people, get folks on spaceships and dudes with teleport powers moving them away, or *finally* get other folks involved for one last minute pinch hit [Hey Reed, you checked in on your son? Your functionally omnipotent son? Oh, then you just sort of left? That's cool], they just went "Nah, we'll go to our graves letting the entire world just fade away because eh, effort". Which oh, by the way, letting that happen just speeds up the entire process for the multiverse at large. Meaning they not only doom their Earth, but increase the doom that much more for all other possible Earths. Could they be bigger colossal failures? Like Namor is clearly a monster, because there is no reality in which teaming up with that group of people to do anything ends well for anyone, but he's morally superior to the rest of them because he has the strength of his convictions. He's still a colossal gently caress up because day one, moment one they should have told more people....but at least now that they've cocked it all up this badly he decided to follow through and protect the world a bit longer.
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Aug 22, 2014 21:27
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Evacuating the earth doesn't do anything, the incursions destroy both universes
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Aug 22, 2014 22:39
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jsoh posted:Evacuating the earth doesn't do anything, the incursions destroy both universes Evacuating Earth and then destroying it. No Earth, no incursions. The problem is the multiversal disintegration continues.
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Aug 22, 2014 22:42
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That would have involved revealing what they had done and they are all too selfish for that. They decided to martyr themselves at the cost of two universes and the acceleration the end of literally everything for the imaginary moral high ground they have in their heads.
SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Aug 22, 2014 |
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Aug 22, 2014 22:59
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bobkatt013 posted:So the ones who show regret about having to kill earths should be punished but the ones that relish in it should be supported? They did make a mistake not bringing this to everyone, and that is the start of their downfall. However, this issue was all about them facing their actions and now are going to try to make up for them. Yes, you can argue that them deciding not to kill earths is noble (and you'd be right, really), but when they just quit because they're horrified by what they've done, they effectively condemn their whole world to death (and the world it's crashing into), and they're just totally content with it, and that's hosed up. Reed goes to hug his kids goodbye and T'Challa says goodbye to Storm and Beast has his little ethics dilemma with Young Beast, but they still go and decide to just let themselves and Earth-616 bite it without anyone else knowing what happened. I mean, ostensibly they decided after blowing Earth-not-JLA that they can't play God, but then they effectively go back to doing just that by not even informing people that the end is coming. Namor probably doesn't want to kill earths, but like he said last issue, after Reed and T'Challa went and built a bunch of world-killer bombs, only he had the stones to pull the trigger. And he's decided that if he has to be the villain to save the 616 then he'll get as low as he needs to.
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Aug 23, 2014 00:09
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I wouldn't call letting 2 universes did without telling anyone "making up for their actions". These guys were willing to let everyone die because they couldn't stomach the situation they had put themselves in. I'm not cheering for world killers but in this context everyone is a world killer, no matter what they do. And inaction is a choice in itself, with very clearly outlined consequences. The only ones with a semblance of moral are those who don't know.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:22
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PelvicNerve posted:I'm not cheering for world killers but in this context everyone is a world killer, no matter what they do. And inaction is a choice in itself, with very clearly outlined consequences. The only ones with a semblance of moral are those who don't know. Captain America and the Great Society.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:27
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I think it's important to note when this is happening. They were forced to do something horrible. They "survived" but were utterly defeated by their actions and before they can even begin coming to terms with it another incursion begins. If they have had a day or two to think about it maybe they would come up with something. But no, the incursion game forced them to do something horrible and then proceeded to kick them while they were down in the ground. They've been dealing with this with the idea that this is a no-win scenario. It's been, what, half a dozen incursions and they're not anywhere close to figuring them let. gently caress, they still don't know ANYTHING outside of the main players. Their big mistake was keeping this to themselves because ever since Wakanda lost those kids this has been eroding them little by little. We saw their breaking point. We saw them lose hope. Namor gave them a break to wipe the board and come up with a (hopefully) new set of eyes to figure poo poo out. My guess is things are going to start falling into place and we're going to see unconventional solutions. Like I wouldn't be surprised if the Cabal is the one to deal with the Map Makers or Black Priests. Or maybe we'll meet the Ivory Kings. Or the rest of the swans. Or the Ebony Kings. Seriously, there's still so much ground to cover. Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 01:31
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Yeah, there's a large number of pieces that have yet to fall into place. I'm trying to piece together things I had missed or forgotten and there's way more lore at the beginning of this run than I remembered. Reed mentions at one point that a possible explanation is that something is actively working towards the death of everything. I guess these are the Black Priests and Ebony Kings, considering they're offering worlds as sacrifices to Rabum Alal. And Rabum Alal's birth was what started it all according to Swan. I hope Rabum Alal doesn't turn out to be a giant dude they have to punch in the nose. Other things that have yet to come into play include Tony's version of Sol's Hammer and that World Killer he kept after Infinity. I wouldn't be surprised if all their galactic pals from Infinity helped too. WickedHate posted:Captain America and the Great Society. I think Hickman will take that choice out of the regular Avengers' hands anyway by having the Cabal on the loose, buying them time to figure a solution and keeping their hand cleans. If the Cabal keep killing worlds during the timeskip, they'll have destroyed an assload of Earths.
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Aug 23, 2014 01:55
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WickedHate posted:Captain America and the Great Society. They chose inaction and so would he. The Great Society's plan was to hope everything works out real hard, it was cripplingly naive. SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 01:59
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