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Man, get off your high horse. I saw the anime before I even read the VN and when I read it I was like "AW poo poo IS HE ABOUT TO DO IT!" then he did it and I fuckin went nuts for about the 10 minutes that scene lasted. No amount of knowing can ruin UBW, it's too good of a thing in this series to be ruined by knowing it exists.
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Aug 16, 2014 19:45
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I only hope they do more justice for the Shirou/Gil fight in UBW. The one DEEN did for their movie left a bad taste in my mouth (and not just because of the bad animation). Especially coming off of F/Z, I hope they make Gil a little more menacing or at least give a good shounen reason Shirou can punk the King of Heroes.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:52
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So do I. They did a pretty good job with Fate Zero. and at the very least it will be better than the jumbled mess of the anime and of the movie, just cause it will be its own route
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Aug 17, 2014 01:06
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Beef Waifu posted:Man, get off your high horse. I saw the anime before I even read the VN and when I read it I was like "AW poo poo IS HE ABOUT TO DO IT!" then he did it and I fuckin went nuts for about the 10 minutes that scene lasted. No amount of knowing can ruin UBW, it's too good of a thing in this series to be ruined by knowing it exists. It can be ruined by making it looks super anemic and lovely though. The VNs version is better even just offscreen, where an Archer who's not even at 100% has basically ruined Ilya's castle and took out most of Berserker's lives.
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Aug 17, 2014 02:06
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I just remember bursting out laughing when Archer randomly jumped in midair and posed. I mean what was that?
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Aug 17, 2014 02:09
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That was the JoJo in him.Rodyle posted:It can be ruined by making it looks super anemic and lovely though. True enough.
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Aug 17, 2014 02:25
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I never understood why Archer didn't copy Nine Lives Blade Works. If he had, he would have won.
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Aug 17, 2014 02:29
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Silver2195 posted:I never understood why Archer didn't copy Nine Lives Blade Works. If he had, he would have won. Nine Lives Blade Works was used against Berserker while he was completely blind and out of control. The only reason Shirou pulled it off was because Berserker somehow noticed Illya and it distracted him enough to allow Shirou to take his last life. Also plot armor.
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Aug 17, 2014 03:03
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I think my preferred answer is that Archer didn't go all-out because he didn't want to risk harming Ilya.
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Aug 17, 2014 03:46
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Fangz posted:I think my preferred answer is that Archer didn't go all-out because he didn't want to risk harming Ilya. I could see that. There's a scene in Heaven's Feel where Archer is protecting Illya and Shirou from True Assassin, Saber Alter, and The Shadow. Shirou notes that Archer was looking at Illya as if he deeply regretted something and that he is fighting with more determination than usual. It's pretty clear that Archer has a soft spot for Illya.
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Aug 17, 2014 04:58
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UBW makes pretty clear that Archer isn't really any better at being the bad guy than Rin is.
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Aug 17, 2014 05:14
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Silver2195 posted:I never understood why Archer didn't copy Nine Lives Blade Works. If he had, he would have won. Nine Lives is not a sword, is technique. Shirou copies it by sheer luck tracing an axe/sword made of rock and without any relevant quality. Archer knows a lot of better and more powerful swords, why should he copy that one? It would be like tracing the dagger of Rider hoping to copy Bellerophon. And, as others said, it probably was still not enough. Dark Berserker is blind, has no skin, has less lives left, and Shirou still needs that Berserker is distracted by Illya in the last seconds to win. YggdrasilTM fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 08:30
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Hommando posted:I could see that. Well I mean... they're step-siblings.
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Aug 17, 2014 09:26
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Edit: that came out wrong.
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Aug 17, 2014 19:40
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Waffleman_ posted:Edit: that came out wrong. Speaking of, people correctly mention how much Magical Fanservice Ilya is bad and you should feel bad for watching it. But if I remember correctly it's an alternate universe where Kiritsugu and Iri goes "nope, lol" and keep the Holy Grail War from ever happening. Which is pretty neat. Except for the Sakura implication. But to be Sakura is to suffer
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Aug 17, 2014 23:59
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Dante Logos posted:Speaking of, people correctly mention how much Magical Fanservice Ilya is bad and you should feel bad for watching it. But if I remember correctly it's an alternate universe where Kiritsugu and Iri goes "nope, lol" and keep the Holy Grail War from ever happening. Which is pretty neat. Except for the Sakura implication. But to be Sakura is to suffer There are a couple sort of neat lore things going on in Nanoha With Type Moon References. They do not make up for the rest of the manga being the most boring tripe imaginable.
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Aug 18, 2014 00:28
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Dante Logos posted:Speaking of, people correctly mention how much Magical Fanservice Ilya is bad and you should feel bad for watching it. But if I remember correctly it's an alternate universe where Kiritsugu and Iri goes "nope, lol" and keep the Holy Grail War from ever happening. Which is pretty neat. Except for the Sakura implication. But to be Sakura is to suffer I absolutely refused to watch that show with the 8 minute exception of the Sabre Alter fight. All UBW fights should be animated like that one was. That is all I ask.
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Aug 18, 2014 01:06
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Edit: Never mind.
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Aug 18, 2014 01:16
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The only good thing about that awful dreck is another remix of Emiya. Can't have too much of those.
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Aug 18, 2014 11:31
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Dante Logos posted:Speaking of, people correctly mention how much Magical Fanservice Ilya is bad and you should feel bad for watching it. I made a mistake of watching an episode from the second season which had a fight in it with the hope that it would be as cool as the Saber Alter fight. Then that happened and it was the skeeviest thing.
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Aug 18, 2014 13:07
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I watched this on Netflix recently and thought it was a pretty good show; I especially liked the relationships between the heroes (when the kings broke bread, that was some of the most interesting commentary on the nature of power that I've seen in an animated show in my opinion). I loved the different ideals embodied by the heroes, and was especially impressed with how they handled Rider/Alexander (is it still necessary to spoil something like that? I'm dodging spoilers for poo poo I haven't even heard of, but just in case I guess...). So I'm in on the concept, I'd love to see more of it, where do I go from here in terms of what to watch? Or should I be looking for manga instead? I know a poo poo-ton of youtube videos have been embedded and I could be wrong but some of them really don't look like they're from Fate/Zero, so may I ask if another show was made? I recall that this one was intended as a prequel, and it'd be interesting to check out what it's building up to exactly in what I presume must be the next grail war? Thanks for any help. I'd also like to know more about the game that either came from this or the other way 'round, some kinda card game I guess? Obviously they change a lot of things for animation but is Archer/Gilgamesh as ridiculously overpowered in the game as he is in the show? How the hell do you even do a thing if the other hero can apparently summon your own damned weapon against you, and as far as the grail is concerned, he's already got one - what's the point of that, exactly?
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Aug 19, 2014 18:24
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Agreed posted:Thanks for any help. I'd also like to know more about the game that either came from this or the other way 'round, some kinda card game I guess? Obviously they change a lot of things for animation but is Archer/Gilgamesh as ridiculously overpowered in the game as he is in the show? How the hell do you even do a thing if the other hero can apparently summon your own damned weapon against you, and as far as the grail is concerned, he's already got one - what's the point of that, exactly? He doesnt have a Grail, he just considers it his because hes motherfucking Gilgamesh and everything is his.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:35
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Fate/Zero is a prequel to Fate/stay night, which originated as a visual novel. That VN got a terrible anime adaptation back in 2006, but it's getting another one by the same studio (ufotable) who made Zero and thus should be of a much higher quality. Would you even like FSN if you liked Zero? Well they have genuinely different themes and styles, largely attributed to having different writers, but I think there is a very strong chance you would enjoy a good deal of FSN if you liked Zero. Translations exist for the VN, so you essentially have two choices: play the VN and/or watch the upcoming anime. The VN would be the unabridged story, but it's really god drat long and it's rather backloaded with its more entertaining parts. The upcoming ufotable anime is only going to adapt one of the three routes in the VN, but it's one of the more popular ones. Unless you absolutely can not stand the thought of playing a very  VN, then some combination of the VN and the upcoming anime is going to be your best bet. Otherwise just stick around for the new show. At the very least you could play the first route "Fate" which deals with Saber's character arc, since the upcoming anime will skip that route. If you do play the VN, grab the new translation patch for the Réalta Nua PC release that came out a few months ago.
Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Aug 19, 2014 |
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Aug 19, 2014 18:35
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Agreed posted:I watched this on Netflix recently and thought it was a pretty good show; I especially liked the relationships between the heroes (when the kings broke bread, that was some of the most interesting commentary on the nature of power that I've seen in an animated show in my opinion). I loved the different ideals embodied by the heroes, and was especially impressed with how they handled Rider/Alexander (is it still necessary to spoil something like that? I'm dodging spoilers for poo poo I haven't even heard of, but just in case I guess...). The Fate/stay night anime that has been made, back in 2006, isn't highly regarded and for good reason. I don't hate it as much as most, but the visual novel it's based on is vastly superior. If you don't want to put in the time and effort for a rather long visual novel, there's going to be a new adaptation of the source material in a couple months. You're better off waiting on that if you're still interested in the story. That said, the visual novel is still great, and well worth the time and effort. A lot of characterization is missed by making the story into an anime. You lose some things, you gain some things, as you might think. The original material, a visual novel, is basically a book with music, pictures, character portraits, and voice acting (in the later releases, at least). Although you can call it a game, it's a game in the loosest sense of the word. And Gilgamesh's thing is that although he has all those fancy weapons, he's not really very good with any of them. If a Servant engaged him in a 1-1 sword fight at close range, Gilgamesh would lose his advantage. Saber with a good Master providing her with a lot of mana is more than a match for Gilgamesh at close range, but his biggest weakness is his pride. He refuses to treat anyone except Alexander as an equal in any way, and that causes him to make stupid mistakes. And the chains that he used against Alexander in the anime only really work on Servants with a high Divinity stat (Alexander claiming he's the son of Zeus). If he were to use that against, say, Saber, it wouldn't be nearly as effective, because she doesn't claim any divinity.
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Aug 19, 2014 18:38
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As everyone has said its better off to skip the old anime and wait for the new one Fate Staynight if you don't want to read for whatever reason. It will follow a different vibe as many of the masters are not experts preparing for years, but more like Waver and Ryuunosuke, who just kinda bumped into it, personalities and hobbies aside. It is also probably why them and their servants had a great relationship to each other compared to the other masters and servants which could be considered strained at best, and deadly at worst, Kotomine and Gilgamesh aside as they did not start up paired And about Gilgamesh, he is canonically considered the most powerful heroic spirit/servant out of anyone, and he knows it, but he is extremely prideful, and as everyone has said before in a more normal fight he would be the weakest overall as he just collected weapons and other stuff, he only learned to use one weapon flat out and that would be his almost alien doomsday weapon AE. Which has the potential to destroy the planet and more if he really wanted to. It probably is largely considered why he is the most powerful servant, not many of them could destroy a planet by spinning a lance 
Stevefin fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 13:45
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Stevefin posted:
Destroy a planet is putting Ea's power mildly. Apparently at full strength, it can pretty much tear a hole in reality. Making it a perfect weapon for him if you think about it. Just as he thinks no one is worthy of seeing him fight with everything's he got, Ea's true power never gets used because its owner thinks there's no one good enough to waste the effort on.
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Aug 20, 2014 18:37
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Sylphid posted:Destroy a planet is putting Ea's power mildly. Apparently at full strength, it can pretty much tear a hole in reality. Making it a perfect weapon for him if you think about it. Just as he thinks no one is worthy of seeing him fight with everything's he got, Ea's true power never gets used because its owner thinks there's no one good enough to waste the effort on. Wasn't it hinted at that if he ever tried to use Ea's full power (while not in a reality marble which contains all of the damage), the backlash from the governing consciousness of the Earth and/or Greater Grail would basically erase him from existance purely out of self-preservation?
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Aug 20, 2014 21:19
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AlternateNu posted:Wasn't it hinted at that if he ever tried to use Ea's full power (while not in a reality marble which contains all of the damage), the backlash from the governing consciousness of the Earth and/or Greater Grail would basically erase him from existance purely out of self-preservation? That makes sense as the world is apparently sentient and totally cool with setting up Faustian deals in order to get awesome eternal guardians.
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Aug 20, 2014 22:20
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Even if Gaia didn't smack him down for it, blowing up the planet you're standing on doesn't work out too well most of the time. Particularly in a universe where the laws of physics change from planet to planet. IIRC the only reason space travel is possible for humans in the Nasuverse is because the human race is strong enough as a group to extend Earth's physics into space (I think Nasu likes Mage). The actual TYPEs do something similar, which is what ORT's Crystal Valley is, as is that whole thing VV is doing in Notes.
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Aug 20, 2014 22:43
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Gilgamesh is strong for other reasons I imagine, from what I imagine from Epic he did plenty of worthy ancient mythology hero stuff way before he really settled into the whole King thing which justifies his signature ability. If Ea and GoB were to be taken from him and he was forced to fight seriously with just a couple of phantasms I don't think he would be a pushover by any means. The one Heaven's Feel spoiler I know: When he gets eaten by Sakura doesn't she remark its like eating two Heroic spirits? That kinda implies to be it isn't just GoB that defines his tier.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:07
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Gilgamesh is legitimately super skilled and strong, really don't know what you guys are talking about. He only ever loses because of his ego and lovely luck in opponents.
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Aug 22, 2014 05:32
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Raenir Salazar posted:The one Heaven's Feel spoiler I know: When he gets eaten by Sakura doesn't she remark its like eating two Heroic spirits? That kinda implies to be it isn't just GoB that defines his tier. I'm pretty sure that is a reference to Enkidu considering how close they were. Hell, I wouldn't be suprised if his chains are the actual manifistation of his best friend.
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Aug 22, 2014 13:08
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AlternateNu posted:I'm pretty sure that is a reference to Enkidu considering how close they were. Hell, I wouldn't be suprised if his chains are the actual manifistation of his best friend. I thought Gil provides energy for the Grail equivalent to what two Heroic Spirits would provide. In other words, if only six Servants died, but one of them was Gil, you would be able to make a path to the Root. Minor Apocrypha spoilers: Summoning Gil would actually solve the problem of getting a wish out of those 5-Servant knockoff Grail Wars.
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Aug 22, 2014 14:06
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BlitzBlast posted:Gilgamesh is legitimately super skilled and strong, really don't know what you guys are talking about. He only ever loses because of his ego and lovely luck in opponents. I'm not saying he's a terrible fighter, because he's obviously not, but there are some matchups he would really have trouble with. He really has no great counter to Zero Berserker, because anything he shoots out of Gate of Babylon is going to do more good for Lancelot than anything it'll do for him. I think his biggest problem, other than his pride, of course, is that he doesn't have as many really honed combat instincts like Saber or the Lancers of either stay night or zero. As long as he can keep his opponent away from him, he'll do fine for the most part (Saber countering Ea with Avalon at the end of Fate notwithstanding), but when an opponent does something he doesn't expect or lets an enemy close the distance, then he's in trouble and gets himself backed into the corner. Of course, Saber might be kinda cheating, since she can see like three moves ahead in any fight or something. She just has really highly trained senses, something I never really got from moments in either stay night or zero where Gilgamesh fought someone.
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Aug 22, 2014 15:54
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Sylphid posted:I'm not saying he's a terrible fighter, because he's obviously not, but there are some matchups he would really have trouble with. He really has no great counter to Zero Berserker, because anything he shoots out of Gate of Babylon is going to do more good for Lancelot than anything it'll do for him. Gilgamesh supposedly has some kind of ability to predict his opponents' attacks (possibly via a Noble Phantasm called Sha Nagba Imuru). It just never seems to help him much in actual battles.
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Aug 22, 2014 17:43
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Sylphid posted:He really has no great counter to Zero Berserker, because anything he shoots out of Gate of Babylon is going to do more good for Lancelot than anything it'll do for him. My favourite Fate thought exercise is working out how much rear end Zero Berserker would be capable of kicking if he was summoned by a properly trained Magus as a Saber. spoilers: it is a lot of rear end that gets kicked
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Aug 22, 2014 19:56
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ActionZero posted:My favourite Fate thought exercise is working out how much rear end Zero Berserker would be capable of kicking if he was summoned by a properly trained Magus as a Saber. They kept referring to Arturia as the ultimate sword wielder or something like that but isn't Lancelot canonically the greatest of the round table knights.
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Aug 22, 2014 19:58
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Gaius Marius posted:They kept referring to Arturia as the ultimate sword wielder or something like that but isn't Lancelot canonically the greatest of the round table knights. Arturia has Excalibur and Avalon which are both kind of a big deal. Lancelot is probably more skillful in combat though and Arondight isn't nothing.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:16
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Another fun thought experiment is imagining Hercules summoned as another class instead of Berserker, since it's said that he could be summoned into any class but Caster.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:37
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Gaius Marius posted:They kept referring to Arturia as the ultimate sword wielder or something like that but isn't Lancelot canonically the greatest of the round table knights. Lancelot beat the knights of the round table (sans Arthur) while naked. It's hard to compare strengths though because usually Arthur is depicted as much older than Lancelot which is partially why Arthur lost his wife to him.
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Aug 22, 2014 20:38
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