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Captain Oblivious posted:Really? I didn't like it precisely because the whole thing didn't sound right for Superman's voice at all. Especially the bit about "you know what go ahead and do it, I don't care". I guess I mean it's not in your typical Superman personality, but he's the only character that could convincingly pull it off. Maybe Clark's just had a bad day and is venting by messing with Joker, I dunno.
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Aug 23, 2014 18:41
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I don't like Landis but Superman knowing Joker wouldn't commit suicide and calling his bluff doesn't seem that out of character to me.
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Aug 23, 2014 19:44
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I think it's the writing of the Joker character that's out of touch. Completely explaining his entire inconsistency schtick, not having a fallback, "why are you laughing", is just a strawman editorial version of the Joker for Superman to rip on.
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Aug 23, 2014 21:00
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  Blacksad: Arctic Nation
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Aug 23, 2014 21:08
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For anyone unsatisfied with that Superman-Joker scene, I think this is the definitive "gently caress the Joker" moment in the history of the character.
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Aug 23, 2014 22:17
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jng2058 posted:Eh, it conflicts with trad Supes, but New 52 Superman is a dick. Which, you know, is one of the (many, many) reasons people aren't thrilled with the New 52. Superman being a dick dates all to the Silver Age: http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=28&Itemid=45
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Aug 23, 2014 22:50
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This is another badass EC comic that definitely belongs here, Master Race, published in 1955. It's notable for both approaching its subject matter with balls and the astonishing visual storytelling: http://cacb.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/ec-comics-master-race/
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Aug 23, 2014 22:52
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Discendo Vox posted:I think it's the writing of the Joker character that's out of touch. Completely explaining his entire inconsistency schtick, not having a fallback, "why are you laughing", is just a strawman editorial version of the Joker for Superman to rip on. Considering how blindly often the Joker is shown to be an ultimate badass with a quip and a plan for every little occurrence and who is nigh-untouchable until it comes time for his BDSM-beatdown by Batman, I think having one notable exception to the rule is ok.
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Aug 23, 2014 22:59
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I agree with you- the problem is it's been done before, and much better. That's just the well-known ones from the animated series. By contrast, this Joker's a strawman with none of the traits that actually define the character.
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Aug 24, 2014 06:03
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Torchlighter posted:Well, here's a video of him making GBS threads on the Death and Return of Superman. While the nigh fetishistic gore is unnecessary , I actually think this could have been a pretty great story. I think a more metaphorical death of Superman would have been a lot better story-wise than a fake-death-coma ended up.
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Aug 24, 2014 06:46
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IndenturedHobo posted:While the nigh fetishistic gore is unnecessary , I actually think this could have been a pretty great story. I think a more metaphorical death of Superman would have been a lot better story-wise than a fake-death-coma ended up. Superman's metaphorical death and rebirth was the plot of Kingdom Come.
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Aug 24, 2014 06:54
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WickedHate posted:Superman's metaphorical death and rebirth was the plot of Kingdom Come. I'm sorry, I have never actually read Kingdom Come. Was it any good? For actual content;  Miracleman #1 (2014) Because Marvel and Niel Gaiman are actually going to finish this loving thing. IndenturedHobo fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 08:02
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IndenturedHobo posted:I'm sorry, I have never actually read Kingdom Come. Was it any good? Kingdom Come is both really well written and beautifully illustrated, and I've even recommended and gotten positive responses on it by people who generally couldn't give a poo poo about capes.  The sequel is terrible and should be avoided at all costs, though.
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Aug 24, 2014 09:36
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IndenturedHobo posted:I'm sorry, I have never actually read Kingdom Come. Was it any good? It's basically a comic about DC beating up Image: 
Alhazred fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 11:53
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I can think of another two well written "deaths" of Superman that put anything Max Landis can conceive of to shame, Alan Moore's Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow, a farewell to the Silver Age and Grant Morrison's All Star Superman which also served as a rather fond tribute to Silver Age Superman.
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Aug 24, 2014 12:46
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IndenturedHobo posted:I'm sorry, I have never actually read Kingdom Come. Was it any good?
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Aug 24, 2014 12:55
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Alhazred posted:It's basically a comic about DC beating up Image: Yeah, I pretty much see kingdom come as a counter reaction to rising popularity of the murderous anti-hero of the late 80s and early 90s, and it's all the better for it.  Magog is basically the anti-hero poster boy, and pretty obviously inspired by characters like Cable e; might as well quote Alex Ross: "That's a character that Mark Waid invented that was really just put to me like come up with the most God awful, Rob Liefeld sort of design that you can. What I was stealing from was - really only two key designs of Rob's - the design of Cable. I hated it. I felt like it looked like they just threw up everything on the character - the scars, the thing going on with his eye, the arm, and what's with all the guns? But the thing is, when I put those elements together with the helmet of Shatterstar -- I think that was his name -- well, the ram horns and the gold, suddenly it held together as one of the designs that I felt happiest with in the entire series" Bohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 13:17 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 13:13
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Bohemian Nights posted:e; might as well quote Alex Ross: There's a story about how Liefeld reacted when he heard about this. His response was... to brag about how much money he'd made off Cable and Shatterstar. Which is kinda hard to argue with, to be honest.
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Aug 24, 2014 13:51
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The first time I ever saw Cable I wondered if his robot arm could transform into a boombox that blasts Journey, because he was the most '80s thing I'd ever seen after Robocop. That art is really making me want to buy a TPB of "Kingdom Come".
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Aug 24, 2014 15:27
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First Bass posted:The first time I ever saw Cable I wondered if his robot arm could transform into a boombox that blasts Journey That would be amazing and legitimately improve the character.
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Aug 24, 2014 15:29
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My shameful secret is that I still really like Cable despite not being 8 years old anymore, though at least now it has more to do with his appearance in Marvel vs Capcom 2 than any comics. I'm not a huge DC guy, but Kingdom Come is loving great.
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Aug 24, 2014 20:11
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Cable is a meh character in a vacuum, but as a straight man to Deadpool he's top notch.
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Aug 24, 2014 22:41
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Bohemian Nights posted:The sequel is terrible and should be avoided at all costs, though. I sort of remembering that I liked the Offspring comic. I literally can't remember too much more other than that and bits of Son of Batman. Wasn't there a bit when they start using weapons on display in a Planet Krypton restaurant or am I misremembering that scene?
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Aug 24, 2014 22:52
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Metal Loaf posted:There's a story about how Liefeld reacted when he heard about this. His response was... to brag about how much money he'd made off Cable and Shatterstar. Actually, it's not that hard to argue with. Or to ridicule, at least. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8wLg5Asgo
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Aug 25, 2014 00:44
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IndenturedHobo posted:I'm sorry, I have never actually read Kingdom Come. Was it any good? Awesome. Do they have rights to the back catalogue as well?
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Aug 25, 2014 06:06
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You Am I posted:Awesome. Do they have rights to the back catalogue as well? Yes.
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Aug 25, 2014 06:12
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First Bass posted:The first time I ever saw Cable I wondered if his robot arm could transform into a boombox that blasts Journey, because he was the most '80s thing I'd ever seen after Robocop. You really should. I'm not a huge DC fan, but it's one of the best comics I've ever read, legitimately, and the artwork is gorgeous. I have (though not in my current flat D:) the special hardcover edition in the slip case with a bunch of additional material, character design notes, interviews, character names, and a long list of 'tiny fun details you might not have noticed'. It's really interesting. The sequel does kinda stink though.
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Aug 25, 2014 19:22
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A problem with Kingdom Come is that some of it can be kind of baffling to someone who isn't up on a lot of DC characters.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:21
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IndenturedHobo posted:While the nigh fetishistic gore is unnecessary , I actually think this could have been a pretty great story. I think a more metaphorical death of Superman would have been a lot better story-wise than a fake-death-coma ended up. Besides Kingdom Come, Death and Rebirth can easily be read as another "metaphorical death" for Superman at the hands of the 90's EXTREME era. This is why he gets replaced with more 'popular' versions - the young one, the one who kills, the bad-rear end half robot one, and...well, frankly, the token minority representative in John Henry Irons (obviously all these characters went on to do much more interesting things). Death and Rebirth just takes that metaphorical death and makes it completely literal. I read somewhere on these forums that the ability to do this completely straight is one of the more endearing things about cape books - referencing Fantomex being so self-absorbed with himself that eventually he got a female clone of himself and they hooked up.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:49
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muscles like this? posted:A problem with Kingdom Come is that some of it can be kind of baffling to someone who isn't up on a lot of DC characters. Not really, the story is extremely straightforward. I would argue you don't need to know any of the characters at all.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:50
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I didn't know much about DC when I first read it and I'd say the only confusing part was Shazam. Everyone else is explained pretty well in context.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:54
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Kingdom Come is the bees' knees, there is no reason to pass it up. Also I will never-ever-EVER apologize for liking Cable. I don't care that he's a product of the EXTREME era, he's my favorite.
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Aug 26, 2014 01:01
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Cable is like just about every other X-Treme X-character created between 88 and 2001-- he only became tolerable after years of re-writes and storyarcs that placed him out of the central spotlight and into a more tolerable tertiary role.
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Aug 26, 2014 01:23
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Make sure to re-read Kingdom Come with the annotations, there is an incredible amount of detail about all the new characters and the DC universe in general crammed in there. http://www.enjolrasworld.com/Jess%20Nevins/Kingdom%20Come/Jess%20Nevins%20Kingdom%20Come%201.htm
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Aug 26, 2014 01:26
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Opopanax posted:I didn't know much about DC when I first read it and I'd say the only confusing part was Shazam. Everyone else is explained pretty well in context. Same here. The story works with basic familiarity of the big heroes.
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Aug 26, 2014 03:22
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Chinaman7000 posted:Same here. The story works with basic familiarity of the big heroes. Thirded. I knew jack and poo poo about DC comics beyond the basics. Kingdom Come still read beautifully.
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Aug 26, 2014 05:17
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Now Earth X, there's one where you practically need the Marvel Handbook open to read it. Each issue even begins and ends with Uatu and Machine Man chatting about the various MacGuffins.
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Aug 26, 2014 16:48
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Now Earth X, there's one where you practically need the Marvel Handbook open to read it. Each issue even begins and ends with Uatu and Machine Man chatting about the various MacGuffins.
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Aug 26, 2014 19:33
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Every issue ends with a text discussion between Uatua and Machine Man explaining the info you need to know
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Aug 26, 2014 21:21
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Probably not the best Machine Man, though. Unrelated: now reading Brubaker & Fraction's Immortal Iron Fist run - it's a lot more interesting than I thought it would be. 
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Aug 26, 2014 21:34
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