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boredsatellite posted:I just want more Petrurabo. The way he was characterized in Angel Exterminatus was great and I want to see more of the guy man I dug Angel Exterminatus so much. At first. Until Fulgrim showed up. Kroeger's storyline was kind of a neat dark-side mirror of Loken's arc from Horus Rising. The whole "noble warrior must wrestle with his instinctive humility in order to assert himself and realize his potential as a leader" thing is such a distinctive trope of 40k and the MilSF genre that "random hardassed thug is elevated by the whim of an enigmatic superior and must cope with the fact that he literally had never contemplated any of this leadership poo poo before" is an interesting subversion. Iron Warriors own. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 17:08
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The iron warriors still have my favourite bolter porn 30k story, the hammer and bolter short piece about the inverted citadel. It's got dreads, titans, iron warriors being implacable bad asses, ultramarines doing their second empire thing, it's all just great.
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Aug 23, 2014 17:50
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PupsOfWar posted:man I dug Angel Exterminatus so much. At first. Until Fulgrim showed up. God that book would have been so great if Fulgrim wasn't part of it. I would have been fine with the Iron Warriors grinding loyal planets and their inhabitants to dust while we explored Puturabo's mind and why he turned to Horus.
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Aug 23, 2014 18:24
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boredsatellite posted:Thank you masses for preventing my weak will from buying this You're welcome  My only consolation is that i will be able to post (tagged) spoilers and stuff and torment you all with hints and poo poo. That and the purty pictures. VanSandman fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 18:29
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boredsatellite posted:I just want more Petrurabo. The way he was characterized in Angel Exterminatus was great and I want to see more of the guy He is a stupid shitter kind of guy who kills his own sons and kills messengers. He's The Worst primarch.
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Aug 23, 2014 19:23
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vigorous sodomy posted:He is a stupid shitter kind of guy who kills his own sons and kills messengers. He's The Worst primarch. Worst primarch is a pretty high bar to leap over, but I agree that it sort of kneecaps the attempts to build sympathy for him as this idealist who just wants to build awesome things for everybody when he decides to decimate (in the proper sense) his own legion, just to prove a point. That was him, right? Really, a lot of the shittier background fluff decisions read like someone high up at GW occasionally going, "Whoa, hold on there, the players/readers might forget that the Bad Guys are supposed to be Cartoonishly Evil and we can't have that." The very fact that the better writers do a passable job of occasionally taking 40k past a thirteen-year-old's idea of morality is despite, not because of, the premises that they have to work with. Keep in mind that when stuff happens like the Grey Knights butchering Sisters of Battle to smear blood all over their armor (as someone upstream in this thread alluded ) it wasn't done as an attempt at showing how horrifying the Grey Knights potentially are and how facile their claim to a moral high ground might be; it was, as far as I know, done without any self-awareness, presented as an example of What Has To Be Done. It fell to the more enlightened corners of the internet to  over the implications.e: 'enlightened' might seem a bit too fedora-tipping, so to clarify, I'm not trying to be super pretentious here. The whole point is that some of the axioms in the fluff are so bad that just being reasonably critical about them seems mega-enlightened by comparison. JerryLee fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Aug 23, 2014 |
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Aug 23, 2014 22:47
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Since forever the only traitor legion with grey morals have been the Thousand Sons, it took all the way up until Battle of the Fang where Chris Wraight felt the need to out of the blue have a whole two pages dedicated to a Thousand Son's sorcerer gleefully planning the slow torture of children to get some cartoon villain stuff up in there. I remember collecting the Word Bearers when I was 11 because I felt sorry for them, they just loved the Emperor and were punished for it! Lorgar spends a lot of time talking about how he never wanted to be a warrior and that it was forced upon him, far too much moustasche twirling villainy occurs afterwards to make that relevant though. Its a rare Word Bearer's story indeed that doesn't include more killing of their own legion (because bad guys) than the enemy.
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Aug 24, 2014 00:00
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JerryLee posted:Worst primarch is a pretty high bar to leap over, but I agree that it sort of kneecaps the attempts to build sympathy for him as this idealist who just wants to build awesome things for everybody when he decides to decimate (in the proper sense) his own legion, just to prove a point. That was him, right? GW needs to die out and Warhammer to go to a better company, also gently caress Matt Ward.
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Aug 24, 2014 01:39
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Sramaker posted:GW needs to die out and Warhammer to go to a better company, also gently caress Matt Ward. Good news for you, Ward is out: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/08/matt-ward-has-left-building.html
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Aug 24, 2014 01:54
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vigorous sodomy posted:He is a stupid shitter kind of guy who kills his own sons and kills messengers. He's The Worst primarch. Pretty much this...he just comes off as a petulant child. As far as traitor motives go, Mortarians and his are the weakest. Horus and Fulgrim get corrupted, Alpharius/Omegon ??????, Kurze is insane, Lorgar and Angron are broken from the start, and Magnus is forced into it out of desperation(being the most sympathetic out of the lot). Then we have these two who pretty much can be summed up as being jealous of how much cooler everyone is than them. I thought the nerdrage over the Grey Knights blood bathing was because it is just a really dumb attempt to be grimdark. They are grey knights...they don't need to do this poo poo. Is murdering entire populations for catching a glimpse of them not enough? TheArmorOfContempt fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 03:00
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Anomandaris posted:Good news for you, Ward is out: Well good nice to hear that, one problem gone. So now i will say this from now on: gently caress Robin Cruddace and his bullshit favoritsm in how he write codexes.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:48
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Uroboros posted:Pretty much this...he just comes off as a petulant child. As far as traitor motives go, Mortarians and his are the weakest. Horus and Fulgrim get corrupted, Alpharius/Omegon ??????, Kurze is insane, Lorgar and Angron are broken from the start, and Magnus is forced into it out of desperation(being the most sympathetic out of the lot). Then we have these two who pretty much can be summed up as being jealous of how much cooler everyone is than them. Well is it really nerdrage if it's sexist?
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Aug 24, 2014 03:50
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I honestly can't feel any sympathy for the Wolves even after reading Prospero Burns. Thousand Sons just comes off as too tragic in comparison.
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Aug 24, 2014 03:55
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amuayse posted:I honestly can't feel any sympathy for the Wolves even after reading Prospero Burns. Thousand Sons just comes off as too tragic in comparison. You have reached enlightenment. It comes with an 8-pointed tattoo and all the torture and mustache-twirling you wish to indulge in. Yeah the Thousand Sons got hosed hard by Magnus' stupidity. And for all people rag on chaos for enjoying torture and maiming and burning, at least they admit they enjoy their jobs. The Imperium wraps it's horror in words like 'duty' and 'honor,' which to me shows that no matter how serious the writers take the setting, the dark joke is that everyone is the bad guy in the far future.
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Aug 24, 2014 04:00
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So how much has GW rewitten the tau to be bad guys too?
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Aug 24, 2014 04:11
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When I started into the universe of 40K, the Wolves were pretty much my favorite chapter/Legion. Now I've come around 180 degrees and the Thousand Sons are my homeboys.
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Aug 24, 2014 04:22
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Are the Space Wolves Omnibuses okay?
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Aug 24, 2014 04:27
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Sramaker posted:Are the Space Wolves Omnibuses okay? I'd say that after the Night Lords trilogy, they're the best Chapter-specific set of books out there. And, the new Space Wolves books by Chris Wraight are also very good.
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Aug 24, 2014 04:45
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Wax Dynasty posted:I'd say that after the Night Lords trilogy, they're the best Chapter-specific set of books out there. And, the new Space Wolves books by Chris Wraight are also very good. I'm in the middle of Blood of Asaheim now, and I read Stormcaller outré of order. It's a really solid series, good Vlka Fenryka stuff, Mortarion's boys are bastards and the Eccelsiarchy is somehow worse. It manages to have good character stuff and good bolted porn, so it's win-win for 40k fiction.
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Aug 24, 2014 05:13
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Wax Dynasty posted:I'd say that after the Night Lords trilogy, they're the best Chapter-specific set of books out there. And, the new Space Wolves books by Chris Wraight are also very good. Ah okay, any chapter specific books to avoid? I know the Ultramarines Omnibuses had some Mary-sue bullshit later on, the Blood Angels had a bad second Omnibus and the Salamanders ones weren't good. More Warhammer Fantasy related but i keep seeing the Sundering Omnibus (The age of legends novels related to the Elves) by Ben Counter and was wondering if it was okay? Is The Elves Omnibus good
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Aug 24, 2014 05:16
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Sramaker posted:Ah okay, any chapter specific books to avoid? I know the Ultramarines Omnibuses had some Mary-sue bullshit later on, the Blood Angels had a bad second Omnibus and the Salamanders ones weren't good. Here's my subjective ranking: Great: Night Lords Good: Space Wolves (old & new), Iron Warriors (which is really just one book Storm of Iron) OK: Ultramarines (a mixed bag), Word Bearers Bad: Soul Drinkers Terrible: Salamanders, Blood Angels, Grey Knights (just read Emperor's Gift instead)
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Aug 24, 2014 05:26
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Really I thought grey knights had a good first book, an average second and the third where hes dicking around the eye was just terrible
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Aug 24, 2014 05:45
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Wax Dynasty posted:Good: Iron Warriors (which is really just one book Storm of Iron)
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Aug 24, 2014 06:06
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Sramaker posted:Well is it really nerdrage if it's sexist? Oh boy. The S word in 40k books? The GKs did the culling and blood smearing because SoBs have pure blood or something that is demon repellent, right? http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/08/gw-mother-of-all-mysteries.html GW is going to advance the plot? Oh I get goose bumps thinking about that. lite_sleepr fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Aug 24, 2014 |
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Aug 24, 2014 06:22
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vigorous sodomy posted:Oh boy. The S word in 40k books? The GKs did the culling and blood smearing because SoBs have pure blood or something that is demon repellent, right? I meant used the S word toward Matt Ward, the guy who wrote that poo poo.
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Aug 24, 2014 06:37
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vigorous sodomy posted:http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/08/gw-mother-of-all-mysteries.html It's all about Fantasy. They're bringing back Nagash and the entire world is getting hosed over with undead all over the place. From the limited fluff leaks it sounds pretty interesting. They're actually going to kill off some characters.
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Aug 24, 2014 06:39
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I always liked Nagash and fantasy undead. Sramaker posted:I meant used the S word toward Matt Ward, the guy who wrote that poo poo. How is it sexist? I didn't read the story.
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Aug 24, 2014 07:30
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Waroduce posted:Really I thought grey knights had a good first book, an average second and the third where hes dicking around the eye was just terrible The original Grey Knights trilogy is the bolter porn version that never once delves into the morality of the setting the way The Emperor's Gift does. Personally I enjoyed the first two books in a trashy sort of way, but the last was pretty drat terrible.
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Aug 24, 2014 08:08
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Sramaker posted:So how much has GW rewitten the tau to be bad guys too? they seem to be pretty inconsistent about it. When one of the good authors gets around to them, they'll presumably end up somewhere in between the "benevolent off-brand Federation" and "authoritarian hegemonizing fascists" extremes.
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Aug 24, 2014 08:14
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vigorous sodomy posted:I always liked Nagash and fantasy undead. Alright sexism was probably not the best word to use but it's really reeks of Misogyny http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Khornate_Knights and that was the only time stuff like this happened to the Sisters when Ward wrote his codexes.
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Aug 24, 2014 08:16
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Safety Factor posted:They're actually going to kill off some characters. Didn't they say that as well for the old Storm of Chaos campaign? Then I recall hearing the ending was a huge cop-out with things looking like they would change only for it to be reset in some convoluted way. Like the Slayer king was free from his vows but then oops suddenly his son died and he took them again. Only good thing that gave us was when an Ork warboss punched the poo poo out of the Chaos Warlord boss before giving him the bird and leaving with his guys.
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Aug 24, 2014 11:41
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Cooked Auto posted:Only good thing that gave us was when an Ork warboss punched the poo poo out of the Chaos Warlord boss before giving him the bird and leaving with his guys. I've always been a super serious Chaos fan but I can't help but love it when Orks roll in and do poo poo like this, the way they just don't give a poo poo about Chaos Grimdark is hilarious.
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Aug 24, 2014 11:59
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vigorous sodomy posted:I always liked Nagash and fantasy undead. I really liked Thanquol and Boneripper's books. They're practically Fantasy's Cain and Jurgen.
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Aug 24, 2014 14:26
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SRM posted:However, stay the gently caress away from Siege of Castellax. I've always just loved the title, which is essentially a space-latin-ized "SIEGE OF CASTLE!" WE SIEGE THE CASTLE AND KILL THE MANS
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Aug 24, 2014 16:00
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So I just finished Baneblade by Guy Haley and I have to say that it was pretty good and kept my interest the whole way through. There weren't even any horrible point of view breaks like how a lot of crappier writers have.
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Aug 24, 2014 17:26
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From everything I've heard, Guy Haley's pretty solid. That is, until that Ork POV Sanctus Reach novella. That poo poo's dire.
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Aug 24, 2014 17:41
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SRM posted:From everything I've heard, Guy Haley's pretty solid. That is, until that Ork POV Sanctus Reach novella. That poo poo's dire. I disagree. I thought it was appropriately Orky without being inaccessible.
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Aug 24, 2014 23:25
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Just finished Damnation of Pythos. I really liked it. Very Lovecraftian, and the ending is grimdark 40k as gently caress.
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Aug 25, 2014 02:08
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Uroboros posted:Pretty much this...he just comes off as a petulant child. As far as traitor motives go, Mortarians and his are the weakest. Horus and Fulgrim get corrupted, Alpharius/Omegon ??????, Kurze is insane, Lorgar and Angron are broken from the start, and Magnus is forced into it out of desperation(being the most sympathetic out of the lot). Then we have these two who pretty much can be summed up as being jealous of how much cooler everyone is than them. Alpha Legions motivation is pretty much that Alpha sided with Horus cause they were shown two futures that will result of the Heresy. One where Horus loses and humanity is left to a slow death as Chaos devours them over the course of 10k years. The second where Horus wins, but becomes so consumed with guilt over what he has done that he goes mad and kills off all of humanity in the course of years instead leading to Chaos starving because Humanity is their main focus of power. They implied that the Alpha Legion was about making the hard choices. They chose the quick death scenario because its the most humane. The wild card being that Omega is secretly loyal and is actually setting resources and scenarios that he could betray and destroy his legion from within. He has his own faction of marines he trusts that are in on the con. Alpha though is implied to be all in on Horus. SO the real question comes with the post Heresy stuff. Was it Alpha or Omega who died in the fight with the Ultramarines (or I guess did either even die as their entire legion looks like Alpha in armor, size, and appearance with the exception of Omega who had a suit of black armor. Omega kept a suit of armor that was the twin to Alpharius' so he could assume his role if required.
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Aug 25, 2014 06:45
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The more interesting thing than being Manipulated By Aliens is what exactly the Alpha Legion are about Post Heresy, its almost begging for a book set around 40k with the Alpha Legion at the helm. Whatever convoluted background the Alpha Legion have its likely that no one story will ever encapsulate the Legion, especially since its been mentioned a few times that the Legion is massive and operates completely independently of even itself around the galaxy. Its likely that one fleet will hide on a Space Hulk loving up some Chaos while seeking to topple the Imperium as per the Cabal's original vision, while some try to pull the plug on the Emperor and keep at arms length from anything Chaos. Both fleets apparently will think that they are the 'real' Alpha Legion.
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Aug 25, 2014 12:41
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