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thefncrow posted:Fun fact, this is actually Dallas PD policy now. Last year, there was an an officer-involved shooting where the officer made his statement and then surveillance camera footage that contradicted the statement came out. Ive seen that reported before. What's the official justification for the policy? Presumably they claim something other than we want to make sure the officer can get his story straight if the shooting wasn't actually justified. For any other homicide the police would want to get statements on record as quickly as possible before memories fade. Also, presumably any evidence that could contradict a story would be kept from the suspect.
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 19:43 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:21 |
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Jesus fuckin christ, do people still think that there's a nonviolent solution to this problem? How is it that the people of the most well-armed nation on Earth can manage to fuckin get slaughtered every single day by the people who are supposedly there to protect them and literally nothing ever comes of it? In certain cities all black people should be carrying guns at any time and they should all be travelling in groups of 4 or more. Yea, cops are gonna use that as an excuse to attack you, but they were gonna do that anyways. Create an actual danger of them being hurt or killed and maybe they'll start thinking twice. It really can't get much worse and definitely isn't gonna get any better any time soon.
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 20:01 |
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KernelSlanders posted:Ive seen that reported before. What's the official justification for the policy? Presumably they claim something other than we want to make sure the officer can get his story straight if the shooting wasn't actually justified. For any other homicide the police would want to get statements on record as quickly as possible before memories fade. Also, presumably any evidence that could contradict a story would be kept from the suspect. Dallas News story from when it came public: quote:Alexis Artwohl, a nationally known behavior consultant for law enforcement agencies, said studies show officers need rest before they can accurately recount traumatic events. Also, I forgot two elements to the policy. It applies to the officers who just observe the shooting as well, so that alibis aren't closed off to the shooter by the statements of other cops present. Also, the old policy allowed the shooter to view any video evidence of the shooting collected prior to giving a statement. Now, all the observers also get to view that video before making a statement.
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 20:03 |
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Funny how people who are not cops, who you would expect to be more affected by a shooting then someone trained, do not get this same consideration.
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 20:22 |
LorneReams posted:Funny how people who are not cops, who you would expect to be more affected by a shooting then someone trained, do not get this same consideration. This really burns me. Like police are given a huge leeway in regards to killing people because of "the stress of the situation" and whatnot even when they are in control of and/or started it. However when a homeowner has strange men bust into his house at 2 a.m he's expected to be totally sharp and not make any mistakes regarding shooting at the intruders. Every time I hear some politician or whatever talk about our amazing "civilized" justice system it makes me super mad since it's so obviously busted.
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 20:25 |
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That's magical. Citizen involved shooting: "Let's see if we can get him to incriminate himself before the lawyer gets here." Officer involved shooting: "I need time to rest before I can recall events correctly." Imagine George Zimmerman. "I need time to rest, everything is so up in the air right now bro." Oswald: "I need time to rest!" Jack Ruby: *BLAM BLAM* "There you go pal, rest away. I need time to rest too!" The mention of Alexis Artwohl (o look! why she even has her own page on PoliceOne) also raises the issue of corrupt "experts for hire" like her and Mas Ayoob who will say what is needed in court and the media. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Aug 22, 2014 |
# ? Aug 22, 2014 21:51 |
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quote:Brown said in his email that the science was “fairly conclusive.” Well, yes the science on memory recall is fairly conclusive of the opposite of what they are claiming. For example:
But, of course, the goal isn't an accurate story; it's a consistent story that may or may not be dishonest.
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 22:11 |
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Oh, look! That PoliceOne "Academy Instructors List" just keeps on giving. Here's one of their experts on "excited delirium": quote:Lt. "Ma'am your son perished due to an episode of the
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 22:21 |
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Please say the cure for excited delirium is bullets to the face.
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# ? Aug 22, 2014 22:22 |
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Evil Sagan posted:Please say the cure for excited delirium is bullets to the face. nobody posted:Excited delirium (ED) is a common pathology presenting with a number of symptoms that effect anti-social consequences. Previous estimates suggest tens of hours of lost productivity and hundreds of dollars of damage in the U.S. alone in a typical year. Despite much attention from the cognitive force science field, efficacious treatments have remained elusive. Here, we investigate a novel treatment for ED consisting of high velocity heavy metal thoracotomy (HVHMT). In all test subjects HVHMT resulted in rapid relief of ED symptoms, and all subjects remained symptom free for six months post-treatment. Although primary outcomes for out treatment cohort were positive, several subjects experienced acute reactions to treatment including blood loss, pneumathoraxic complications, and death. Further investigation will be required.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 03:02 |
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LorneReams posted:Funny how people who are not cops, who you would expect to be more affected by a shooting then someone trained, do not get this same consideration. Agreed. It's not so much that I object to cops being presumed innocent by a sympathetic and understanding judicial system actively protecting their civil rights, backed by a strong union with progressive employee policies - it's that I wish everyone else got the same treatment. And that the cops and district attorneys wouldn't stomp all over anyone that seeks parity of status.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 03:19 |
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Fruity Rudy posted:If this hasn't been posted yet, massive piece with many of the recent cases that show exactly why reform is needed urgently: "When people ask why I have a problem with law enforcement in the U.S., it's hard to come up with a single answer." haha, is that noted d&d shitlord-from-the-past blairerickson?
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 03:34 |
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KernelSlanders posted:While I agree with you in principle, if you think you're ever going to see a uniformed officer in handcuffs you're living in a fantasy world. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/15/charlotte-police-officer-charged-with-manslaughter-after-shooting-unarmed-man/
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 03:52 |
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Sir Tonk posted:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/15/charlotte-police-officer-charged-with-manslaughter-after-shooting-unarmed-man/ I like how the example you choose: 1. Doesn't include any pictures of the cop in handcuffs. The guy never got perp-walked which is part of what the poster you quoted was talking about. 2. The cop hasn't been sentenced yet. 3. It took two 2 grand juries to indite, as the first grand jury failed to indite but the prosecutor was allowed to call a second larger one. and that case includes this lovely detail: quote:"What's most aggravating about all of this, just shocking and inhumane, after they shot him ten times on the ground, they handcuffed him. The handcuffs weren't removed from Jonathan Ferrell's body until he got to the medical examiners office." Also, if this officer is convicted it will be solely because of the dashcam and not the testimony of the 2 other officers at the scene. Edit: another important detail here was the the cop was charged the day after the killing, which is very very rare. Edit2: Holy poo poo, I didn't realize that one of the officers tried to taze him first, but the tazer failed. So even if Jonathan Ferrell hadn't been killed for being in a car crash, he would have been tazed. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Aug 23, 2014 |
# ? Aug 23, 2014 04:22 |
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Sir Tonk posted:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/09/15/charlotte-police-officer-charged-with-manslaughter-after-shooting-unarmed-man/ quote:Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Rodney Monroe said at a news conference that Officer Randall Kerrick had turned himself in. My point was the other officers on the scene are never going to arrest a fellow on-duty officer as was the case here. The other two cops at the scene were placed on paid leave and the trigger man turned himself in (and presumably posted bail within minutes) some time later after the DA charged files. What I said, that you'll never see a uniformed officer in handcuffs for something he did on duty, is not contradicted by your example.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 04:59 |
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KernelSlanders posted:My point was the other officers on the scene are never going to arrest a fellow on-duty officer as was the case here. The other two cops at the scene were placed on paid leave and the trigger man turned himself in (and presumably posted bail within minutes) some time later after the DA charged files. Sheriff Al Cannon, Charleston County, SC, after slapping a suspect, was placed under arrest by his own deputies, right on the scene. He was booked to the jail carrying his own name and the department's own investigation, of which Cannon is the Sheriff of, requested State Law Enforcement Division to make another investigation, which led to another arrest. http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120828/PC16/120829206 Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Aug 23, 2014 |
# ? Aug 23, 2014 11:36 |
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Vahakyla posted:Sheriff Al Cannon, Charleston County, SC, after slapping a suspect, was placed under arrest by his own deputies, right on the scene. In this example, the Sheriff is still in office and never went to trial.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 15:34 |
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Trabisnikof posted:In this example, the Sheriff is still in office and never went to trial. Because for a misdemeanor assault, a poo poo ton of people get diversion if the conditions are filled. He filled the conditions, and got it. Plus, Cannon should be in office. He is well liked and actually, really, cares for the people here, riding on his free time with a K9 looking for long disappeared people, going through old paperwork and investigations. He also hooks up with old criminals, helping them get jobs and made a pretty progressive (southern standards) half way house for the jail, allowing people to go visit home, go to work and such if they behave well. He also has backlogged arrest warrant in an effort to not harass poor communities and he refused to go on a wild goose chase after two high profile white victim murders, citing the fact that the poorer neighborhoods had more unsolves crimes and demanded more manpower. He has a good support among the poor in the unfortunate areas. Needless to say, poo poo could be way worse with some tea party sheriff. He should get a second chance. He is a net benefit for the State and punishing him more harshy for a misdemeanor assault, harsher than the average citizen would be in the current sentencing guidelines, would be a retarded move. Maybe it would satisfy your bloodlust, though. Even with your loaded question, you had to move the goalposts. The loving sheriff himself was both cuffed and received same penalty as joe down the street. And you scream foul. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Aug 23, 2014 |
# ? Aug 23, 2014 15:39 |
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Vahakyla posted:Sheriff Al Cannon, Charleston County, SC, after slapping a suspect, was placed under arrest by his own deputies, right on the scene. I think you're taking my "uniformed officer" and "on duty" phrases in some kind of symbolic way like law enforcement are "uniformed officers." I don't I mean it quite literally. The situation I'm talking about that never happens is officer A violently and criminally assaults suspect in the presence of officer B and officer B intervenes to stop the assault and arrest officer A. This second purported counter example also isn't. quote:The arrest was a result of an investigation requested by the Sheriff’s Office. He will be prosecuted by the 16th Circuit Solicitor’s Office, SLED said... The arrest was the result of an investigation conducted sometime afterwards and the other officers at the scene did nothing to intervene.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 16:14 |
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Baby steps, people! Anyway, that's not the story I was looking for. It was mentioned on NPR this week and I'll see if I can track it down today.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 16:28 |
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Vahakyla posted:The loving sheriff himself was both cuffed and received same penalty as joe down the street. And you scream foul. Yeah, that's what a foul is. Foul. Does it annoy you, do you feel like slapping somebody? Maybe you should go and work for Sheriff Al Cannon.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 17:27 |
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Vahakyla posted:Because for a misdemeanor assault, a poo poo ton of people get diversion if the conditions are filled. He filled the conditions, and got it. Joe down the street's job doesn't include responsibility for the welfare of criminal suspects who are being detained on his orders. Joe down the street can't have people abducted off the street and interrogated based on his decisions. Joe down the street isn't in charge of a group of people who are allowed to speed and kill people if they deem it necessary. Sheriff Al Canon has way more power to misuse and abuse than Joe down the street does so he has to be held to a way higher standard than Joe down the street.
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# ? Aug 23, 2014 23:35 |
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I'm kind of taking both perspectives at the same time and it makes me feel worse. It's like Cannon apparently isn't a total dick, so he gets publicly arrested for something. What is that implying?
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# ? Aug 25, 2014 15:18 |
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KernelSlanders posted:While I agree with you in principle, if you think you're ever going to see a uniformed officer in handcuffs you're living in a fantasy world. This did happen one time, but completely not in the way intended. Best not cross that blue line.
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# ? Aug 25, 2014 15:49 |
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Ashcans posted:This did happen one time, but completely not in the way intended. Just ask Adrian Schoolcraft.
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# ? Aug 25, 2014 16:12 |
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Ashcans posted:This did happen one time, but completely not in the way intended. While I think, perhaps, I may need to iterate the wording of my statement, that story (and Schoolcraft) I think reinforce rather than undermine my point.
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# ? Aug 25, 2014 17:58 |
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Off duty cop moonlighting as a security guard in a hooded sweatshirt and dark pants with his gun drawn demands a 17 get out of the car. Kid tries to get away and the cop kills him. No indictment. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/27/off-duty-texas-cop-cleared-in-fatal-shooting-of-teen-he-suspected-of-drug-use/ This is what the officer was wearing:
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 20:42 |
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DARPA posted:Off duty cop moonlighting as a security guard in a hooded sweatshirt and dark pants with his gun drawn demands a 17 get out of the car. Kid tries to get away and the cop kills him. No indictment. And because the grand jury proceedings are sealed, we have no idea if this was the prosecutor totally failing to bring evidence in, or the jury being wildly biased pro-cop. Probably the former, though.
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 20:44 |
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This happened last evening/today: http://www.omaha.com/news/crime/off...1a4bcf6878.html Don't know if this particular article has been updated, but it looks like the suspect was armed with a BB gun. Do you guys think COPS will use the footage against the police in a compensation/wrongful death suit, or would that compromise their relationship with other Departments? I ask due to the fact that the show is a huge factor in normalizing the current trends in law enforcement, and if they were to chip in to the current situation, it would be a significant indicator into how the conversation will go from there. edits for spelling and grammar. Immanentized fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Aug 27, 2014 |
# ? Aug 27, 2014 20:47 |
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DARPA posted:Off duty cop moonlighting as a security guard in a hooded sweatshirt and dark pants with his gun drawn demands a 17 get out of the car. Kid tries to get away and the cop kills him. No indictment. This is my personal fear. Even better: quote:A neighbor who videotaped the shooting said Garza was wearing a gray hooded sweatshirt and dark pants, rather than a uniform, and he said the officer demanded that he delete video or images of the incident from his cell phone. This sounds like someone who knows they done hosed up. LorneReams fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Aug 27, 2014 |
# ? Aug 27, 2014 21:12 |
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I have to add that I've had personal experiance with this. My wife was coming home from work and in the center of our town, stopped to get gas. It was like 1230am and the only other car in the gas station was a crappy looking Ford Taurus. My wife finishes pumping, pays, and gets into her car. All of a sudden, the car speeds up and pull next to her and a guy in jeans and a t shirt starts screaming at her to open her door. She's like 5'5 and 90lbs and it's 1230, so she speeds the gently caress away. The guy chases her home and as I see he pull in from the window, two police cars follow. I run out, and they are tossing the car and pushing her against the ground. I take two steps out and both cops immediatly pull their guns on me yelling to get down. Of course I drop. Apparently her car matched the decription of one used to rob some drug dealer. The guy who approched her was a plainclothes police officer. He was livid and told my wife that running like that could have gotten her killed. We both filed complaints (no one would give numbers, and it took hours before they uncuffed us) and moved out of the city (and the state!) within 6 months. Sorry, this story just brought all of that back.
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 21:25 |
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LorneReams posted:I have to add that I've had personal experiance with this. My wife was coming home from work and in the center of our town, stopped to get gas. It was like 1230am and the only other car in the gas station was a crappy looking Ford Taurus. My wife finishes pumping, pays, and gets into her car. All of a sudden, the car speeds up and pull next to her and a guy in jeans and a t shirt starts screaming at her to open her door. She's like 5'5 and 90lbs and it's 1230, so she speeds the gently caress away. The guy chases her home and as I see he pull in from the window, two police cars follow. I run out, and they are tossing the car and pushing her against the ground. I take two steps out and both cops immediatly pull their guns on me yelling to get down. Of course I drop. It's especially problematic because a lot of the time police do announce themselves, perfunctorily, by screaming "Police", but when you're suddenly startled you're not necessarily going to process what the hell the screaming person is saying. No-knock warrants, especially. If you suddenly confront a sleeping/high/drunk person, you can't honestly claim you 'identified' yourself as a cop just by screaming 'police'.
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 21:34 |
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Obdicut posted:It's especially problematic because a lot of the time police do announce themselves, perfunctorily, by screaming "Police", but when you're suddenly startled you're not necessarily going to process what the hell the screaming person is saying. No-knock warrants, especially. If you suddenly confront a sleeping/high/drunk person, you can't honestly claim you 'identified' yourself as a cop just by screaming 'police'. For some reason we have had a lot of people in my area decide that they could be better crooks by presenting themselves as police. The jokes write themselves, obviously. However, the police had to recognize that people were doing this, and we've been told to not pull over for an unmarked car, but to instead keep driving and call 911. All in all, it sounds like a great way to get shot.
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 21:40 |
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The problem seems to be officers confusing their guns for the source of their authority and respect rather than their badge and uniform.
DARPA fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Aug 27, 2014 |
# ? Aug 27, 2014 22:34 |
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The whole grand jury system is fairly antiquated and dates to a time when the vast majority of prosecutions were conducted privately. Although, given some of the events in this thread, maybe bringing them back wouldn't be such a terrible idea. It wouldn't help poor people necessarily, but at least it could create some accountability. I'm not crazy about suggesting trickle-down justice, but if it works.
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 22:46 |
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KernelSlanders posted:The whole grand jury system is fairly antiquated and dates to a time when the vast majority of prosecutions were conducted privately. Although, given some of the events in this thread, maybe bringing them back wouldn't be such a terrible idea. It wouldn't help poor people necessarily, but at least it could create some accountability. I'm not crazy about suggesting trickle-down justice, but if it works. Problem with that is one of the best defenses is blaming the crime on someone else.
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 22:49 |
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I don't follow how that's a problem? You would still need standing to bring the charge, and trivial private prosecutions is precisely what grand juries are meant to prevent.
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# ? Aug 27, 2014 22:58 |
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KernelSlanders posted:I don't follow how that's a problem? You would still need standing to bring the charge, and trivial private prosecutions is precisely what grand juries are meant to prevent. I mean say that if Richie McGee did a crime but he can blame it on Lucky Ducky, who was also there, by prosecuting him, that ain't cool.
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# ? Aug 28, 2014 01:25 |
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Right, but if Richie wasn't the victim he doesn't have standing to prosecute.
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# ? Aug 28, 2014 01:35 |
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# ? Jun 5, 2024 03:21 |
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So this happened in Atlanta. It's a pretty big thing, they're calling murder, an actual loving murder. Cops are all in a tizzy, but at least the Coroner's doing his job. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/death-man-stunned-while-custody-ruled-homicide/ngXbt/ quote:Records said he was handcuffed as he was repeatedly stunned and there are several other potentially explosive allegations.
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# ? Aug 28, 2014 01:38 |