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duckmaster posted:So, ReindeerF, was that you? duckmaster posted:he came over, loudly introduced himself in that American way ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 11:47
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You know in Edinburgh now you can go on a, like, Disneyland-style barrel theme ride through the whisky-making process, with Scottish caricatures shouting things at you as you go. Anyway, STUPID BANGKOK NEWBIE QUESTION INCOMING but why do the MRT and the BTS have different ticketing systems?
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Aug 25, 2014 12:18
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Because the BTS is run by the BMA (Bangkok-based authority) and the MRT is run by the SRT (state authority) and the two get payoffs from different people in addition to often being politically misaligned. For more fun examples, note that the connecting stations where the BTS and MRT intersect are named different things based on what line they're on. EDIT: We're supposed to get an Octopus card that will work across the MRT, BTS and ARL at some point, but that talk has been going on for years. Typically, things take a long time because whoever is in charge of tendering for each organization is always older and about to retire and won't sign a contract because he's afraid of corruption charges, so it always has to wait until a new guy comes in, signs everything and then starts not signing anything so he, too, can avoid corruption charges. This is why fully completed BTS stations sit dormant for years. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 12:22
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ReindeerF posted:For more fun examples, note that the connecting stations where the BTS and MRT intersect are named different things based on what line they're on. I noticed that! And I figured it was something like your explanation, because naming them differently means actually making an effort to be difficult out of spite. I also noticed how at least with Asoke/Sukhumvit the stations aren't even physically connected despite being directly on top of one another.
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Aug 25, 2014 12:28
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Chantilly Say posted:I noticed that! And I figured it was something like your explanation, because naming them differently means actually making an effort to be difficult out of spite. I also noticed how at least with Asoke/Sukhumvit the stations aren't even physically connected despite being directly on top of one another.
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Aug 25, 2014 12:30
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The LIRR (serves Long Island and and a lot of Queens and the Bronx and those places north of the Bronx) is a different ticket from the subway in NYC. Which is also different from the PATH train (serves New Jersey but like 90% of the people on there are going to NYC). These trains sometimes have stops near each other that are poorly connected, sometimes they are well connected. Of the three only the subway has the meritorious virtue of being one flat rate for everywhere you go (the other two cost more the further you travel which is really dumb as it encourages people to not use it). There's also a little tramway that connects Manhattan to nearby Roosevelt Island that isn't connected to anything at all. Still, without the BTS Bangkok would be a lot harder to love. ===== We still don't have a Thailand emoticon do we. Who should cry on there anyway? Doreamon? Krut? Hanuman? Probably the old man but then we'd be scared to use it.
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Aug 25, 2014 13:06
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Sheep-Goats posted:We still don't have a Thailand emoticon do we. Who should cry on there anyway? Doreamon? Krut? Hanuman?
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Aug 25, 2014 13:37
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Sheep-Goats posted:Of the three only the subway has the meritorious virtue of being one flat rate for everywhere you go (the other two cost more the further you travel which is really dumb as it encourages people to not use it). There's also a little tramway that connects Manhattan to nearby Roosevelt Island that isn't connected to anything at all. The argument for distance based fare versus flat fare is not that cut and dried. Distance based fares actually are more cost effective and recuperate costs a lot faster than flat fare systems. Yes flat fare systems are easier to understand and administer but are less cost effective, decreases maximum ridership potential, hinders rail link growth. The best compromise is a mixed use of distance based fares with some sort of transportation subsidy for those who live in the outskirts. Oh and add in a dose of heavy real estate development to turbo charge people moving in to fringe stops. quote:Still, without the BTS Bangkok would be a lot harder to love. 15 years ago, barely anyone used the BTS because it was extremely expensive. Don't think there were much fare hikes over time, I'm glad it's well used nowadays. But still, having it as an ugly sky train is not the most forward thinking idea. Lack of escalators and elevators, bad transfer terminals, ugh. #ModernTransporationComplaints quote:We still don't have a Thailand emoticon do we. Who should cry on there anyway? Doreamon? Krut? Hanuman? How about Hitler McDonald?
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Aug 25, 2014 13:48
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If you ain't down with the flat fare you ain't down with the people
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Aug 25, 2014 13:56
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Gail Wynand posted:Thaksin Probably right... How about Cambodia? Literally all I could come up with is Gary Glitter. E: oh wait the Pirate Bay guy mebbe
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Aug 25, 2014 14:00
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Tell that to the people who live just outside the subway line. Oh right, there's not enough money for subway extension because the system is hemorrhaging money. Fare collection is not a mutually exclusive binary answer.
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Aug 25, 2014 14:09
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Sheep-Goats posted:Probably right...
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Aug 25, 2014 14:31
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caberham posted:15 years ago, barely anyone used the BTS because it was extremely expensive. It's gone up in price several times since then, but ridership has never been higher than now on the BTS - at its most expensive. At first, people didn't know what the gently caress to make of it, from what I hear. It cost 40 Baht to get across town and you stood on this thing that ran above people's heads and the bus works just fine anyway and God knows what all. As communities and things built up around the BTS it became more a part of regular life, with condos and shopping areas and venues opening at different stops. Hell, Siam Paragon, pretty much the anchor for Siam BTS Station, opened on my birthday in 2005 - I happened to be at the station. It's taken years of people and the city getting used to it for it to work like it does. The MRT, frankly, just has a much less desirable catchment area. Part of the reason they keep the fares low is that they can't fill up the trains yet. That's going to change hugely once the new extensions out into Nonthaburi open up and the MRT becomes the suburban light rail line to the West the way the BTS is to the East. EDIT: If you want to see a real planning disaster start reading up on the Airport Rail Link, with special notice to the Express Line and Makkasan Station. EDIT EDIT: The Expressway System is probably a good analog for the BTS. At first people thought it was too expensive and so on, but it didn't take long for everyone to figure it out and now it's the reason that Bangkok is moderately navigable in traffic when compared to the other two SE Asian megacities (Jakarta and Manila - I refuse to count KL and Singapore! BS colonial fake cities!). Of course between then and now the Thai government basically stole the original expressway from the Germans and then built the rest of the network itself, which continues to this day, heh. ReindeerF fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 15:42
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Decided to give Robert Kaplan's new book on SE Asia a try. I knew it wasn't worth taking seriously when I read in the intro that "the GI's Saigon of pubs and go-go clubs is gone." Maybe he's trying to hide something from his wife.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:19
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"It's moved to another neighborhood, several in fact."
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Aug 25, 2014 17:24
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ReindeerF posted:"It's moved to another neighborhood, several in fact."
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Aug 25, 2014 17:29
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I actually don't know Saigon that well, though I have been to Apocalypse Now like a decade ago. It was not at all cool, heh.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:35
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caberham posted:Oh and any goons stopping over Hong Kong should post here or give me a shout. We throw goon welcome parties all the time for out of town folks. I think it's a nice city to lessen the initial "cultural shock" I'll definitely be up for this in November. I'm currently planning a 4 week trip to SEA then and am looking at doing a stopover for a few days in either Singapore or Hong Kong before heading onto Thailand and Cambodia. Everything I'm reading seems like HK would be a better option for me - I'm big into the outdoors/good views, history, nightlife, and just experiencing things unique to an area. Anyone have input on doing a 3-4 day stopover in Singapore or Hong Kong? Is it worth taking the ferry to Macau for a day to check out?
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Aug 25, 2014 17:39
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ReindeerF posted:I actually don't know Saigon that well, though I have been to Apocalypse Now like a decade ago. It was not at all cool, heh. And Vietnamese bargirls are way more attractive than Thai bargirls, sorry but you know it's true.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:43
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caberham posted:Are you a Dutch goon? Dutch goons are fun crowd. Belgium goon in fact. I've only got an 8 hour layover so I'll probably see if I can just quickly drop by the city, engorge myself on dim sum and visit a small gallery before passing out on my flight to Surabaya.
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Aug 25, 2014 17:45
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Boola posted:I'll definitely be up for this in November. I'm currently planning a 4 week trip to SEA then and am looking at doing a stopover for a few days in either Singapore or Hong Kong before heading onto Thailand and Cambodia. Everything I'm reading seems like HK would be a better option for me - I'm big into the outdoors/good views, history, nightlife, and just experiencing things unique to an area. Gail Wynand posted:And Vietnamese bargirls are way more attractive than Thai bargirls, sorry but you know it's true. gutter chat is reserved for the LINE group - .1 BAC required to join
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Aug 25, 2014 17:48
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What's this about Vietnam bar girls? Please elaborate pimpdeerf I'm caberham on line please add me
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Aug 25, 2014 17:50
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Under no circumstances is caberham to be added to this group!!!
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Aug 25, 2014 17:56
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I'm gailwynand on line
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Aug 25, 2014 18:01
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gailwynand gets added
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Aug 25, 2014 18:02
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Gail Wynand posted:And Vietnamese bargirls are way more attractive than Thai bargirls, sorry but you know it's true. Ooooh gently caress yes! (Also GO2 is the real seedy place in Saigon, I love it)
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Aug 25, 2014 18:19
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ReindeerF posted:HK is always, always the better choice. It's like asking whether you should do a few days in New Orleans or Charlotte because they're both in the South. Hong Kong is a fantastic city. Singapore isn't horrible or anything, but your lasting impression will be, "Wow that was clean and orderly (minus the pooping Mainlanders)." HK is exploding with culture and food and amazing views and what not. Beirut or Dubai, guys, what do you think? Like that, heh. That's what I figured (just not maybe to that extent), thanks for the input. HK it is.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:30
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caberham posted:Tell that to the people who live just outside the subway line. Oh right, there's not enough money for subway extension because the system is hemorrhaging money. Fare collection is not a mutually exclusive binary answer. Money for subway extension has never and will never come from fares. The subway chiefly benefits central city businesses by making available a wider pool of workers, especially newly trained professionals who can't yet afford to pay rent "downtown" and support labor (reception, janitorial, police, nurses and other mid to low tier healthcare workers, street cleaners, food workers, the transport workers themselves -- all of whom will shift to jobs nearer to their home when/if able, partly because paying for 45 minutes on the subway isn't a privilege). Public transport is a public good and should be paid for mainly through taxation, which should be highly progressive. Be down with the people maaaaaaan Gail Wynand posted:Decided to give Robert Kaplan's new book on SE Asia a try. I knew it wasn't worth taking seriously when I read in the intro that "the GI's Saigon of pubs and go-go clubs is gone." Maybe he's trying to hide something from his wife. I went and read the NYT review of this book and it closes with the line "Poor Southeast Asia. So far from God, so close to China." raton fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 25, 2014 |
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Aug 25, 2014 21:38
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Gail Wynand posted:Decided to give Robert Kaplan's new book on SE Asia a try. I knew it wasn't worth taking seriously when I read in the intro that "the GI's Saigon of pubs and go-go clubs is gone." Maybe he's trying to hide something from his wife. How is it beyond that? I went to the launch event he held here in D.C. and it was awesome, as soon as they opened it up to questions from the crowd this furious Vietnamese lady got up and started haranguing him for being too easy on the Communists, and telling her life story about having to flee the country in 75 when she was a teenager and how dare he try to lump all Vietnamese together and she refused to give up the mic so Kaplan eventually had to cut her off by talking over her with "Yeah, we got it, are you gonna let me respond?" Didn't get much of a sense of the quality of the book though, is it worth reading? e: oh and I'm back stateside from the Philippines. Pretty much everything Reindeer says about Manila is right. I love the country outside of the city, but god drat.
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Aug 25, 2014 21:49
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CronoGamer posted:e: oh and I'm back stateside from the Philippines. Pretty much everything Reindeer says about Manila is right. I love the country outside of the city, but god drat.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:06
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I got this LINE business as ChantillySay
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Aug 25, 2014 23:43
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ReindeerF posted:I don't care who you are. I am a fun loving guy and I try hard to make any place fun, but Manila will stymie you whoever you are. When drinking Red Horse around tables full of red chairs with bad fried food is a highlight your city sucks. HOW DARE Y- oh yeah, you're right. 
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Aug 25, 2014 23:51
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It could be worse, you could be in like Kuala Lumpur or something.
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Aug 25, 2014 23:56
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SE Asia Megathread: Our Capitals Suck rear end
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Aug 26, 2014 00:04
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XyrlocShammypants posted:It could be worse, you could be in like Kuala Lumpur or something. Where got?!? KL got nice food.
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Aug 26, 2014 00:51
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Add me to line pls Helloitskru
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Aug 26, 2014 00:58
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Where got?!? KL got nice food. Aaaiiyooooo
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Aug 26, 2014 00:59
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Boola posted:I'll definitely be up for this in November. I'm currently planning a 4 week trip to SEA then and am looking at doing a stopover for a few days in either Singapore or Hong Kong before heading onto Thailand and Cambodia. Everything I'm reading seems like HK would be a better option for me - I'm big into the outdoors/good views, history, nightlife, and just experiencing things unique to an area. Echoing Reindeer but a few more things: Depends on your airfare. Yeah Hong Kong is more fun, but a few days in Singapore is fine. Sing goons are nice people. You also have more LCC options to the rest of SEA compared to HK. Fragrag posted:Belgium goon in fact. I've only got an 8 hour layover so I'll probably see if I can just quickly drop by the city, engorge myself on dim sum and visit a small gallery before passing out on my flight to Surabaya. You can buy a 24 hour round trip ticket for the same price as a single journey ticket. Last train is 12ish and first train is 5:30am. You can also stash your bags in the airport for a small fee. If you have further questions you can post in the  China thread PM me forums or line/wechat caberham
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Aug 26, 2014 01:26
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ReindeerF posted:gailwynand gets added i'm ediplomacy on LINE 
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Aug 26, 2014 01:57
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CronoGamer posted:How is it beyond that? I went to the launch event he held here in D.C. and it was awesome, as soon as they opened it up to questions from the crowd this furious Vietnamese lady got up and started haranguing him for being too easy on the Communists, and telling her life story about having to flee the country in 75 when she was a teenager and how dare he try to lump all Vietnamese together and she refused to give up the mic so Kaplan eventually had to cut her off by talking over her with "Yeah, we got it, are you gonna let me respond?" Didn't get much of a sense of the quality of the book though, is it worth reading?
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Aug 26, 2014 02:50
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