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So, who here was responsible for this? http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/08/beware-of-cupcake-fascism e: 1937 - The League of Nations prohibits foreign nationals from fighting in the Spanish Civil War. This doesn't deter the International Brigades, nor does it deter the Nazis, who bombed Jaén from the air a month later. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 22:18
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Elements of 'Crime' by Irvine Welsh are chillingly similar to elements of the report quoted above by ronya. The book deals with an organised paedophile ring and it all seemed a bit far fetched at the time. Now I get the impression it was just the tip of the iceberg.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:30
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nuzak posted:I had a good laugh at imagining people uncovering a child sex conspiracy and then biting their fingernails as they realised that charging them might make them look racist! Well lads, hands are tied. the problem is not in charging people they already have dead to rights, the problem is expanding the net to intercept others who are known to be out there because you have a victim but circumstances don't permit ready identification of the rapists also in an atmosphere where the BNP is kicking up poo poo because of a perceived plague of BROWN PEOPLE raping white girls, it is probably unwise to go out there and apparently confirm that there is a problem of non-white gang rapists ReV VAdAUL posted:Complicity also makes similar references now that you mention it, including a pretty pivotal one later on: the copper that raped the 2nd person protagonist when he was a kid. "they're all
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Aug 26, 2014 22:30
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ronya posted:also in an atmosphere where the BNP is kicking up poo poo because of a perceived plague of BROWN PEOPLE raping white girls, it is probably unwise to go out there and apparently confirm that there is a problem of non-white gang rapists  On the plus side. 
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Aug 26, 2014 22:37
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Enjoy posted:It seems pretty clear that we need to stop blaming specific cultures and races. The solution is obvious: chemically castrate all men, create a state monopoly on reproduction in laboratories, and raise children in communal state owned crèches. Somebody's talking sense. The only culture to blame is rape culture.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:41
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The idiocy goes so deep they even got customised plates for it.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:42
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That's beautiful. More photos of racist arseholes in hilarious gently caress up situations please. *cough*farageplane*cough*
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Aug 26, 2014 22:43
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Guavanaut posted:So, who here was responsible for this? you can practically see the writer's drool as he lusts after a revived hypermasculine
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Aug 26, 2014 22:44
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Glokta posted:Elements of 'Crime' by Irvine Welsh are chillingly similar to elements of the report quoted above by ronya. The book deals with an organised paedophile ring and it all seemed a bit far fetched at the time. Now I get the impression it was just the tip of the iceberg. Did Welsh not also have a character in one of his books who was basically Savile-in-all-but-name?
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Aug 26, 2014 22:45
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ronya posted:oo, wrong report. I was mixing together some earlier reports that got passed around a bit: Those are the same thing though, every mention of rape and abuse is in relation to male gangs or male members of the same gang. The snitching part in that article heavily implies that it's one of the many examples of things the men do to keep women in line or to get to a rival. I mean if you've got something more concrete then fine, but this all adds to the mountain of evidence that women are increasingly drawn into these situations and exploited and abused by men
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Aug 26, 2014 22:47
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Semprini posted:Did Welsh not also have a character in one of his books who was basically Savile-in-all-but-name? Freddy Royle in Ecstasy. He only bothers corpses in the book as far as I recall. Still if an author could find this stuff out you've got to think the authorities could do the same.
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Aug 26, 2014 22:59
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Irvine Welsh doesn't write fiction. Except secrets of the master chefs. Possibly.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:10
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That's good as wishful thinking. Someone I hate at work to take my hangover for me? Sign me up.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:15
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SybilVimes posted:The rule was changed from Well, poo poo. Thanks for the update. Edit: Hmm, can the forums quote a quote? vv 
Prince John fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Aug 26, 2014 |
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Aug 26, 2014 23:41
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Prince John posted:Well, poo poo. Thanks for the update. You have to manually edit the quoted quote back into your quote. QUOTE.
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Aug 26, 2014 23:50
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ronya posted:there does seem to be a cultural problem in the Pakistani community's non-response to organized sexual abuse and intimidation, which the South Yorkshire police seem unable to get a grip on Its not just a South Yorkshire problem, it seems to be an issue in the majority of UK towns and cities where there is a large Pakistani community. The first reported instance of this in Keighley was in the early 90's. Eventually as it became almost common a local campaign was set up and they received a lot of threats and hate for trying to stop it. The campaign was eventually led by the local MP, Ann Cryer who received a lot of almost vilification from here own party for trying to stop it; while West Yorkshire police branded the whole thing as being a racist. At least Social Services management actually tried to do things to prevent it in the case of Keighley. But it was only after the Rotherham convictions did West Yorkshire police finally look into the Keighley allegations, and there have been a few convictions but there are reportedly over 18 separate investigations into grooming in the Bradford district, 7 of which are in Keighley. To put it simply Rotherham isn't a one off its just one of possibly a dozen towns and cities.
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Aug 27, 2014 10:38
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Zero Gravitas posted:Meaning that he was writing about the usurption of an incredibly sadistic upper class that used rape, murder and torture for its own amusement by The Culture. What if instead of being something he dreamed up, it was based rather more literally on reality?
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Aug 27, 2014 10:41
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ukle posted:To put it simply Rotherham isn't a one off its just one of possibly a dozen towns and cities. On the racism point: the report says plainly that it isn't clear why this was allowed to go on for more than fifteen years without anyone doing anything serious to stop it but it lists four possible factors: quote:The possible reasons for this are not clear but may include denial that this could occur in Rotherham, concern that the ethnic element could damage community cohesion, worry about reputational risk to the Borough if the issue was brought fully into the public domain, and the belief that if that occurred, it might compromise police operations. quote:The inquiry found that several staff described their nervousness talking about the race of the men "for fear of being thought racist". Others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so. Zephro fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 10:50
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Zephro posted:Aren't you thinking of the Affront? They were the thinly-disguised public schoolboys. Nah, the protagonist wavers around the end of the second act in Player of Games and his handler shows him how awful the game player society is. The sins of that society match up closely with recent revelations about our own.
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Aug 27, 2014 11:28
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It's rather odd how when Pakistani men do something hideous and vile, it's accepted by many as a damning indictment of the entire Pakistani people and culture, but when a bunch of white British men do that same thing, there's no talk of how those people and their culture is responsible. ^ e; And yeah I don't know if we're quite at the live broadcasting of the evisceration of pregnant women stage but we're clearly not so far off. Burn the planet down and salt the ruins.
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Aug 27, 2014 11:31
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Mister Adequate posted:It's rather odd how when Pakistani men do something hideous and vile, it's accepted by many as a damning indictment of the entire Pakistani people and culture, but when a bunch of white British men do that same thing, there's no talk of how those people and their culture is responsible. Have you seen this said anywhere beyond the usual BNP/EDL anti-muslim crowd? And have you never heard the West being condemned by their equivalents in other cultures?
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Aug 27, 2014 11:45
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Glokta posted:Freddy Royle in Ecstasy. He only bothers corpses in the book as far as I recall. Still if an author could find this stuff out you've got to think the authorities could do the same. Well the thing is that was all rumour and gossip - loads of people came out after Saville was dead and said things like "Well we all knew that something was going on..." but it was all stuff they'd heard third hand. I doubt anyone would be happy with the old bill investigating based on that, otherwise the contents of Marc Almond's stomach or Richard Gere's bottom would also be up for examination.
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Aug 27, 2014 12:01
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^Yeah. People were making "Jimmy Saville is a paedophile" 'jokes' when I was in secondary school (which was quite a while ago now :/ ). Everyone knew, but nobody actually knew for sure.
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Aug 27, 2014 12:25
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Zephro posted:^Yeah. People were making "Jimmy Saville is a paedophile" 'jokes' when I was in secondary school (which was quite a while ago now :/ ). Everyone knew, but nobody actually knew for sure. Plenty of people knew for sure. They just happened to be the ones with all the power and none of the interest in following it up.
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Aug 27, 2014 12:35
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When the poo poo that happened in Wales comes out how do we think it will be brownwashed?
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Aug 27, 2014 12:50
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The Met, corrupt shower of poo poo that it is, has acknowledged that they've done something wrong for once: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/27/met-chief-apologises-officers-unlawful-cs-spray-protesters Grauniad posted:Britain's most senior police officer has been compelled to apologise to a group of protesters after admitting that one of his officers used excessive force when he unlawfully sprayed CS gas into their faces at close range.
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Aug 27, 2014 13:04
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Gonzo McFee posted:Plenty of people knew for sure. They just happened to be the ones with all the power and none of the interest in following it up.
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Aug 27, 2014 13:19
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tentish klown posted:The Met, corrupt shower of poo poo that it is, has acknowledged that they've done something wrong for once: Note that they're only apologising as part of a settlement to stop a legal case.
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Aug 27, 2014 13:20
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tentish klown posted:The Met, corrupt shower of poo poo that it is, has acknowledged that they've done something wrong for once: Whos is losing their job for this? (No one hahaha accountability)
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Aug 27, 2014 13:20
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Zephro posted:Ok, true. I mean that lots of people knew, or at least strongly suspected, even if they didn't have proof. It was an open secret even among people who didn't know him personally. You have to be careful with 'open secrets' like this though. Everyone at school told of the 'open secret' of a local businessman being a kiddy fiddler, and that if you worked for him the chances are he'd get gropey at least. That businessman went on to become mayor of the town, and was generally regarded as a good mayor, helping to modernise the town and bring it out of the 1970s into the 1990s. After Saville, his friendship with Saville and the 'open secret' meant that a couple of years ago, he was publically accused of being said kiddy fiddler, and investigations were opened. Then closed as it was found that there was no evidence. Yet that innocence hasn't stopped him being stripped of his civic honours, AFTER the investigation concluded there was no wrong doing. All because someone, on a forum, after the saville case, made the claim about the "open secret" we all knew when we were kids, and the police took it as a serious claim of wrong doing.
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Aug 27, 2014 13:27
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Zephro posted:Ok, true. I mean that lots of people knew, or at least strongly suspected, even if they didn't have proof. It was an open secret even among people who didn't know him personally. There's tons of references to it in various comedy shows. Lee and Herring did something about Savile, as did Mitchell and Webb. Jerry Sadowitz has been saying it for years, naturally.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:44
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tentish klown posted:The Met, corrupt shower of poo poo that it is, has acknowledged that they've done something wrong for once: On the same day, no less, that Hogan-Howe apes Boris Johnson in saying we should presume guilt on anyone travelling to Syria or Iraq. This is the man in charge of the Police in London. What a poo poo.
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Aug 27, 2014 18:47
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SybilVimes posted:You have to be careful with 'open secrets' like this though. You're link doesn't say that Jaconelli was innocent? I'd never heard of him before, but it sounds like he probably abused children. Lack of evidence doesn't mean innocence, which as he is dead will never be tested in court. Edit: It's like after Lord McAlpine won the libel case. All the politicians we're falling over themselves to decry "witchhunts" against poor old men and saying how innocent McAlpine was. It is very hard to get solid evidence for cases like this because it's usually one person's word against an other over if abuse occurred. There wasn't hard evidence that would of held in court, but he probably was a paedophile. ANYTHING YOU SOW fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 19:59
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ANYTHING YOU SOW posted:Lack of evidence doesn't mean innocence it's kind of supposed to though "we can't prove he done it but we all know he did so let's book him anyway" is not an excellent basis for a justice system. That this is essentially happened anyway even though it's not supposed to work like that is what Sybil is mad about, I think.
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Aug 27, 2014 20:44
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This is extra scary because not only did it involve paedophiles, but homosexual paedophiles to boot. Pretty shocking that crimes of this magnitude/scale can happen in a first world nation like England...
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Aug 27, 2014 21:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kzW7N1MvXo&t=1240s From 1992 - a show with Jimmy Saville actually on it - and a woman talks about how there were always rumours on Fleet Street that he was into little girls...
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Aug 27, 2014 21:56
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Renaissance Robot posted:it's kind of supposed to though Yeah fair enough, but I'm not talking about the justice system- they're both dead now. They are never going to be found guilty in a court. I'm just saying that doesn't mean they aren't paedos. You could argue it doesn't matter now whether they where or weren't. Maybe it is a waste of time to debate something that we will never have 100% proof of. But I think that it matters to the possible victims( who would be mostly still alive). And to the people in positions of authority who may of let them get away with it.
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Aug 28, 2014 00:18
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SybilVimes posted:You have to be careful with 'open secrets' like this though. That is, at best, a severe misrepresentation of the facts described by the article you kindly linked. Why did you do that?
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Aug 28, 2014 00:28
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In unsurprising but depressing news: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/28/closed-shop-deepy-elitist-britainquote:Closed shop at the top in deeply elitist Britain, says study In light of this I'm sure the media will be confronting the root causes of this inequality, poor people getting 'too much' benefits, a tiny minority of people getting strange treatments on the NHS and non-white and foreign people committing crimes.
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Aug 28, 2014 10:18
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Just saw more stuff on the grooming story on the news. Talking to one of the victims, and they manage to conclude the problem was that people (eg. School nurse) weren't trained what to do when told about it. No mention of the fact the cops were told about it and all they loving did was take some clothes to check DNA on, which they then lost. And if course 'ASIAN GANG GROOMING HORROR' along the bottom of the screen the whole time.
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Aug 28, 2014 10:56
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