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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Nerds are upset at other nerds over gay baby games drama That's the thing tho: when people make death threats and steal your bank information and show up at your home to harass you it's kind of different from just gay baby games drama
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Aug 29, 2014 19:58
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Here's what it sounds like to someone on the sidelines of it all. Nerds are upset at other nerds over gay baby games drama, time to completely trash whatever point I had by calling any kind of rhetoric literally fascist. If you aren't disgusted that your hobby is shared by someone who tells a stranger on the internet they're going to come to their home and shove objects up their oval office for voicing a minority opinion then you're not on the sidelines you're proving somebody's point. If anything smart rational people on the sidelines take one look at the group of hostile, violent, and demeaning manbabies calling for SJW's to get raped and die in the same breath as crying about artists getting bullied by them and immediately make a decision to go against that.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:03
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Phone posted:Engaging the people in question in a constructive manner doesn't necessarily have the goal of changing that person's mind about the situation. It's more for the people watching/reading/listening on the sidelines who have not decided to engage in a public manner. Yeah actually this is a good post and you're right, especially about the power of publicly calling out people on the crappy poo poo they say and do. I would say I do think there's a distinction between calling out individuals for actions that can be attributed directly to them and groups that include members who have taken offensive actions, but also members who haven't. al-azad posted:If you aren't disgusted that your hobby is shared by someone who tells a stranger on the internet they're going to come to their home and shove objects up their oval office for voicing a minority opinion then you're not on the sidelines you're proving somebody's point. I'm not? I don't define myself by my any individual quality or hobby and what some shithead who happens to share some of these qualities does in his spare time has no impact on what I do in mine.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:03
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Zombies' Downfall posted:That's the thing tho: when people make death threats and steal your bank information and show up at your home to harass you it's kind of different from just gay baby games drama Someone said that people are acting like fascists by citing the violent actions of said people when there are actually no Jews being gassed. See, both sides do it and they're both equally as bad.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:03
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Jordan7hm posted:I would say I do think there's a distinction between calling out individuals for actions that can be attributed directly to them and groups that include members who have taken offensive actions, but also members who haven't.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:06
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Jordan7hm posted:what some shithead who happens to share some of these qualities does in his spare time has no impact on what I do in mine.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:08
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al-azad posted:If you aren't disgusted that your hobby is shared by someone who tells a stranger on the internet they're going to come to their home and shove objects up their oval office for voicing a minority opinion then you're not on the sidelines you're proving somebody's point. I'm disgusted that they're doing it. Them sharing one of my hobbies doesn't have much to do with it - if it specifically bothers you that they're giving "gamers" a bad name, you might want to ask yourself why you identify as "a gamer" to begin with.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:09
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al-azad posted:If you aren't disgusted that your hobby is shared by someone who tells a stranger on the internet they're going to come to their home and shove objects up their oval office for voicing a minority opinion then you're not on the sidelines you're proving somebody's point. Careful my friend pathos was invented by the nazis. Also only a sith deals in absolutes, sith are space nazis btw.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:20
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HMS Boromir posted:I'm disgusted that they're doing it. Them sharing one of my hobbies doesn't have much to do with it - if it specifically bothers you that they're giving "gamers" a bad name, you might want to ask yourself why you identify as "a gamer" to begin with. Because like it or not people will label you by association. For anything. Just look around you. Defending someone against harassment who happens to be a woman immediately labels you a feminist SJW white knight gently caress off whatever. I'm not afraid of labeling myself a gamer, I'm afraid that people who know of my hobbies will go "Oh, you're associated with kids who scream friend of the family on the Xbox okay." And it cheapens the public perception of the industry as a whole. And people are quick to use the lovely argument "If you don't like the way things are make your own game" without realizing the hostile environment they're creating scares away people from doing just that. If everybody thought of "gamers" as a collective group of assholes they would stop trying to make alternative games.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:24
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Careful my friend pathos was invented by the nazis. Also only a sith deals in absolutes, sith are space nazis btw. That guy did say a dumb thing but your feigned ironic detachment is both dumb and boring.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:28
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I am sorry I used the word literally in my post
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Aug 29, 2014 20:29
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Careful my friend pathos was invented by the nazis. Also only a sith deals in absolutes, sith are space nazis btw. At least the Sith take action. The Jedi Council sits on their asses deliberating while poo poo is on fire all around them.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:33
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I don't think it can be overstated that you can disagree with or dislike something without getting mad about it or lashing out against it. I personally have never cared for "sjw" games (a really broad, vague term in my head, I'll admit) like Depression Quest, Papers Please and Cart Life, but their existence doesn't really affect or upset me, so I look at them and just say whatever. If anything, taking these uncommon themes and trying to turn them into games pushes the creative boundaries of the industry, which should be a good thing. And similar to what Chris(?) said, the people at the top of the AAA companies don't even register these little games, so I don't see how they'd be a threat to more traditional games on any reasonable timescale. If nothing else, they don't really make money so why throw AAA dollars at making Cart Life: Revengeance? Sorry if that came out weird, I'm on my phone so it's tough to think and type coherently. Also lost in this debate was the sweet fade-in for the intro on this week's Thumbs. I hope that becomes the norm moving forward.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:36
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I'm glad someone made Papers Please. It really exposed the social injustice being done to the fictional citizens of Ajdkjfkrjlflristan.
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Aug 29, 2014 20:43
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Al! posted:I'm glad someone made Papers Please. It really exposed the social injustice being done to the fictional citizens of Ajdkjfkrjlflristan. Glory to Arstotzka
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Aug 29, 2014 20:50
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Every time someone mentions papers please on a gaming podcast it is accompanied by a statement that the game is not fun or not "supposed to be fun". It always makes me feel like I'm playing the game wrong or something because I love the gameplay of it.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:01
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Your way works too posted:Every time someone mentions papers please on a gaming podcast it is accompanied by a statement that the game is not fun or not "supposed to be fun". It always makes me feel like I'm playing the game wrong or something because I love the gameplay of it. It's as fun as Phoenix Wright or Prof. Layton.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:03
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Here's what it sounds like to someone on the sidelines of it all. Nerds are upset at other nerds over gay baby games drama, time to completely trash whatever point I had by calling any kind of rhetoric literally fascist.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:04
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Your way works too posted:Every time someone mentions papers please on a gaming podcast it is accompanied by a statement that the game is not fun or not "supposed to be fun". It always makes me feel like I'm playing the game wrong or something because I love the gameplay of it. This seems like it would be more appropriate for Cart Life anyway. Papers Please is sort of terrifying but nowhere near as stressful as Crushing Poverty Simulator 2011.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:10
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Butt Frosted Cake posted:Lmao congrats on being just as petty and dumb as the horrible retards you're wringing your hands over. Butt Frosted Cake posted:Here's what it sounds like to someone on the sidelines of it all. Nerds are upset at other nerds over gay baby games drama, time to completely trash whatever point I had by calling any kind of rhetoric literally fascist. C-Euro posted:I personally have never cared for "sjw" games like Papers Please and Cart Life EDIT: gently caress this was meant to be a positive post about how glad I was the Thumbs and VGHD talked about this issue instead of ignoring it.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:13
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Pasco posted:Lmao congrats on the anime avatar quote:and the lovely "truth is in the middle" bullshit.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:18
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Comic book nerds were able to take discussions about these kinds of things pretty well. The phrase "woman in refrigerator" comes from a Green Lantern comic, after all. And by 'take it pretty well' that means some people maybe promised to never buy a comic by Gail Simone or something, but she never had to hide out with friends due to so many death threats. So, a large cross-section of 'nerd culture' or whatever you want to call it has crossed this bridge before. I can't understand why this subculture of a subculture can not. On the other hand, I think "this is just a tiny audience, 90% of the people are playing Proteus and Gone Home" isn't correct, either. There are a lot of nerds, which is why stuff like Avatar and Batman films make so much box office bank. Many of those people see movies outside that subculture, and art-house cinema is a small deal for people really into that medium. I just see "gamer" as another label for an industry enthusiast. I watch movies now and then, but I don't read more than one or two critics, and I don't go to sites like /Film or Deadline Hollywood, I don't watch Inside The Actor's Studio or listen to interviews with movie directors on podcasts. The people who do are the movie version of "gamers." There's book versions, and music versions, and so on. Just because the industry is expanding to include some people who really don't care about Activision financials doesn't mean being an enthusiast is passe. Lastly, people talk about the "not real gamers" rhetoric and I believe it's used one of two ways: either directed unfairly at all women, or directed specifically at certain games that probably draw a very large share of women. Namely, Candy Crush and Farmville and so on. The first example is misogynistic, but the second is a refrain simply because we know these particular players are disappearing fads. They were previously Tetris players in the Nintendo/Sega era, and were Wii Sports players not that many years ago. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Aug 29, 2014 |
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Aug 29, 2014 21:24
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Your way works too posted:Every time someone mentions papers please on a gaming podcast it is accompanied by a statement that the game is not fun or not "supposed to be fun". It always makes me feel like I'm playing the game wrong or something because I love the gameplay of it. I'd be playing it still if it could be played entirely with a keyboard. "Mavis Beacon Teaches Soviet-Era Bureaucracy"
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Aug 29, 2014 21:28
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Captain Invictus posted:lol people still do this I wish i was a superstar 
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Aug 29, 2014 21:34
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Craptacular! posted:Comic book nerds were able to take discussions about these kinds of things pretty well. The phrase "woman in refrigerator" comes from a Green Lantern comic, after all. And by 'take it pretty well' that means some people maybe promised to never buy a comic by Gail Simone or something, but she never had to hide out with friends due to so many death threats. Comics have suffered their own setbacks (mentioning The Bechdel Test will probably incite as much nerd rage as Tropes vs. Women) but it's easier to create/publish a comic book which leads to a more diverse audience of readers and creators. If you have a piece of paper and pencil you can create a comic which definitely caused a huge backlash up until a few years ago when webcomics and digital publishing exploded. So now that video games have reached a point where a small team of 1-6 can put out a game easily with tools like Unity and Twine we have to have this conversation. Everything is cyclical, history repeats itself, etc.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:42
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Smoking Crow posted:I wish i was a superstar You will always be Superstar of my heart (at least as long as you keep that av).
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Aug 29, 2014 21:52
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I tried to listen to Idle thumbs a while, but then noticed that the Hosts are idiots.
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Aug 29, 2014 21:54
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They are smart but often act like idiots, there is a difference!Smoking Crow posted:I wish i was a superstar
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Aug 29, 2014 22:11
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al-azad posted:Comics have suffered their own setbacks (mentioning The Bechdel Test will probably incite as much nerd rage as Tropes vs. Women) but it's easier to create/publish a comic book which leads to a more diverse audience of readers and creators. If you have a piece of paper and pencil you can create a comic which definitely caused a huge backlash up until a few years ago when webcomics and digital publishing exploded. There was a lot of blow-up when lady Thor was announced. Though I'm not sure how many death threats Whoopi Goldberg received. Captain Invictus posted:He's a gbs 2.0 superstar I'm not sure why people are taking the bait The anime avatars are coming from inside the house 
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Aug 29, 2014 22:42
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Jordan7hm posted:When you engage with morons you don't improve the quality of the conversation. (haha joke about arguing with me goes here) It worked well the other day when some guy was being a huge douchebag and making all kinds of sniping misogynist comments on a social media site page of a friend of mine, were a bunch of people had been having a pretty interesting discussion until he rolled into it all. Even some aunt of his kept stepping in to defend him as, "oh he's actually really a nice boy I think you're overreacting, you just don't really know him as a person". I attempted to reason with them both as how "being a nice person (in some specific circumstances but not in others) is no excuse for being a really unforgivable jerk to random people for no explicable reason - especially when we're all essentially 'standing around in public'." The guy ended up flying off the handle and made a ton of nasty blanket statements, until even this super nice old lady who was his aunt or something ended up so shocked that she publicly reprimanded him, after I'd never stopped being carefully polite and non-condescending while asking for respect from all parties in disagreement and this guy just lost his poo poo and started saying really egregious poo poo. ... Of course then some random bro stepped in with some one-liner troll comment and they both essentially turned to each other and hi-fived and said "okay ya'll dumb, gently caress you all" however, I don't think his aunt is going to think so highly of them the next time she visits, and that dude never showed his face again. Stan Taylor posted:Calling out lovely behavior is a good thing. We shouldn't let these weird jerks be the only ones talking.  he never gets called back for a follow-up interview and ends up flipping burgers.Or hell, he'll have to check "yes" to the "have you ever been convicted of a felony" and be stuck trying to explain how awesome it was to call in to 911 about a hostage situation and double-murder at a game company that really pissed him off when he was in high school... HMS Boromir posted:I'm disgusted that they're doing it. Them sharing one of my hobbies doesn't have much to do with it - if it specifically bothers you that they're giving "gamers" a bad name, you might want to ask yourself why you identify as "a gamer" to begin with. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 01:23
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The thing with calling people out if that you have to word it properly. If you want to promote tolerance and acceptance it's best do it through example. Most people's idea of calling someone out is provide a lazy "You're an idiot [racist/sexist/nazi/ect] and your opinion horrible. Grow up." It's just another form of harassment. It may not be as severe as harassing someone over their lifestyle or gender but you're still giving them the same kind of vitriol they're giving other people. Can't blame them, though. It's only human to respond to poo poo like that with venom of your own but I think the onus is on the people who want to change hearts and minds to take the high ground without being judgemental.
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Aug 30, 2014 02:13
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Precisely. It's about refusing to escalate a situation to prove a point. Isn't that like, the entire premise of peacefully protesting?
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Aug 30, 2014 02:34
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Jimbot posted:The thing with calling people out if that you have to word it properly. If you want to promote tolerance and acceptance it's best do it through example. Most people's idea of calling someone out is provide a lazy "You're an idiot [racist/sexist/nazi/ect] and your opinion horrible. Grow up." It's just another form of harassment. It may not be as severe as harassing someone over their lifestyle or gender but you're still giving them the same kind of vitriol they're giving other people. It's just that this is a very difficult thing to do when there's hundreds of them, and it's on twitter, and their arguments include nonsense like "Jeff Gerstmann wants to take away your video games." It's not a discussion, like is sometimes possible on facebook. It's just a giant shouting match. It's not the platform that really inspires people to adopt the level of self-reflection that allows them to change their opinions that Chris talked about on the podcast.
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Aug 30, 2014 07:26
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coyo7e posted:It's stressful and frustrating however, it can and does work. If nothing else, one day someone will be filling out a job application and they'll have to list their twitter handle or facebook page, then HR googles them and wow, that's disgusting that you would wish failure in life towards someone because they weren't as polite as you require them to be on Facebook. I really don't understand where you're coming from here. It's certainly not very tolerant, why not turn the other cheek?
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Aug 30, 2014 07:30
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Forums Barber posted:wow, that's disgusting that you would wish failure in life towards someone because they weren't as polite as you require them to be on Facebook. I really don't understand where you're coming from here. It's certainly not very tolerant, why not turn the other cheek? Forums Barber posted:
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Aug 30, 2014 07:47
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Don't forget all this too. b-b-b-b-but you're being intolerant of my intolerance 
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Aug 30, 2014 09:13
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What DrVenkman was talking about reminds me of this guy: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2638049/7-dead-drive-shooting-near-UC-Santa-Barbara.html (that's probably one of those lovely UK tabloids, but you probably will remember it after just reading the lead) With people like that it's pretty sane choice to take every death threat seriously. Also, can someone link me to the previous Gaming Podcasts thread, if it isn't already archived? There was a quote in there I'd like to look up.
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Aug 30, 2014 09:17
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TetsuoTW posted:Don't forget all this too.
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Aug 30, 2014 09:59
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coyo7e posted:I'm a fisherman, and a gardener. A lot of people who're at least as much or more into thosee hobbies as I am, regularly come off as ignorant lunatics. Should I make up another word for all my hobbies just because weird people also enjoy the same things as I do, despite my not spending time around them or agreeing with them? Maybe it's some kind of weird privilege showing on my part but I would not describe myself as "an X" with regards to any of my hobbies, I'd just say "I like to fish on the weekends and in my spare time I cultivate a garden in my back yard." or whatever and if someone responds with "Ugh, you're one of those gardeners, I hear they're all arsonists and cat murderers." I would just stop talking to that person because they're an idiot.
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Aug 30, 2014 10:01
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"Playing video games" is as much a hobby as "watching movies" or "reading books" i.e they're pretty prolific and as such there are assholes in all walks of life. The bigger issue is that video games are still a young and immature industry, inside and outside: the audience is mainly kids and teenagers, and those that stick with it into adulthood might remain somewhat immature (there are also plenty of grown-ups who play games a lot and aren't weird about it); devs are also starting kinda young but even as they age they're still often marketing towards a younger audience, even the oldest-and-still-working developers are entering their sixties and they're typically still aren't making games geared exclusively towards people their own age. Some people just don't believe that video games aren't an insular thing anymore. I'm pretty sure the tide is changing and what we've been seeing the last few years are the final death throes of a few loud sticks in the mud who are still clinging desperately to their rock until they inevitably give up or go with the flow and keep a lid on it. They also take the enthusiast press way too loving seriously. And they shouldn't. Yeah, Ebert or Kermode said/say a lot of interesting things, but they're still just guys writing their own opinion pieces, they're not the paragon gatekeepers of the entire industry they write about. Also, this discussion might be better for the gamers.txt thread rather than here.
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Aug 30, 2014 14:38
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