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Went and grabbed the PHB, really liking what I'm seeing for the most part, while a bit of 4e is still there it seems to be a lot more like 3rd. Though one thing I am a bit disappointed with is the utter lack of summon spells. No more summoned monster parties? No more ambushing random jerks with a wide variety of tiny woodland creatures/monsters? Seems kinda sad to omit. Another thing is, I haven't read the full thing through and through yet, so please correct me if I am wrong but I thought maneuvers were supposed to be put in play to keep martial characters up with caster types, so why does only one class have them? Just seems a bit odd to me. Also, holy poo poo some of these cantrips are really really devastatingly good!
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Aug 30, 2014 00:07
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LoboLoboLobo posted:I wanted to get a second opinion from you guys about a way I managed the checks a player made in the last session I DM'd (first time DM). We're playing 5E. The player wanted to take a rope from his inventory, make a lasso with it, and then round up a goblin and yank it to knock him prone. I had him make a Survival check (for knowledge of lasso and trap making with the rope), then a Dexterity check for the accuracy of the throw, and then a Strength contest with the goblin which ended up with the goblin losing and thus knocking him prone. Does that sound about right? I mean no offence when I say this, particularly since you're a first time DM, but that's really bad. It's also a good example of why I find the 'non-casters can improvise and make their own fun' argument so frustrating; trying to do so always results in some kind of skillcheck hoop-jumping for minimal benefit. The Shove action on page 195 lets you use your Attack to make an opposed Str (Athletics) vs Str (Athletics) or Dex (Acrobatics) check to prone or push a creature. It's a pretty weak option, and you added two more rolls (and so chances to fail) to it. If you consider a level 1-3 Fighter with +3 Str, +2 Wis, +2 Dex and proficiency in Survival from a background lassooing a Goblin, that's a 75% chance of making an Easy Survival check, a 50% chance to land the ranged attack and a 70% chance to win the opposed Str check. Total chance of success: 11% Imazul posted:So my group is pretty psyched to start playing 5e. Will be running the Hoard of the Dragon Queen for now since we have to learn the systems. The system looks like a lot of fun coming from only ever playing 4e. Love the advantage/disadvantage system and the general feel of combat. If you haven't started to play yet, or even learnt the system, I don't think you're really in a position to make a call on whether or not caster supremacy is an issue in 5e. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 00:21 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 00:08
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Cainer posted:Went and grabbed the PHB, really liking what I'm seeing for the most part, while a bit of 4e is still there it seems to be a lot more like 3rd. Though one thing I am a bit disappointed with is the utter lack of summon spells. No more summoned monster parties? No more ambushing random jerks with a wide variety of tiny woodland creatures/monsters? Seems kinda sad to omit. Because WotC dropped the Maneuver idea and the martial damage die thing in favor of, uh.... more attacks?? And not much else. Personally, I'd give everyone at least 2-3 maneuvers to pick from and 1 superiority die a turn. Battle Masters would just be The Best at doing it.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:01
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Cainer posted:Went and grabbed the PHB, really liking what I'm seeing for the most part, while a bit of 4e is still there it seems to be a lot more like 3rd. Though one thing I am a bit disappointed with is the utter lack of summon spells. No more summoned monster parties? No more ambushing random jerks with a wide variety of tiny woodland creatures/monsters? Seems kinda sad to omit. There are like 5 Conjure X spells.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:13
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dublish posted:There are like 5 Conjure X spells. there's 6, and they're split across multiple classes. druids get all of them except Conjure Celestial. so, if you want to play a summoner, be a druid.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:15
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:there's 6, and they're split across multiple classes. druids get all of them except Conjure Celestial. so, if you want to play a summoner, be a druid. I'm playing a 3.5 game right now as a druid, and it's already bad that at level 5 I have to hold back from making GBS threads animals everywhere to stop from ruining the game for the melee classes. Is that still an issue in 5e?
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Aug 30, 2014 03:27
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IPlayVideoGames posted:I'm playing a 3.5 game right now as a druid, and it's already bad that at level 5 I have to hold back from making GBS threads animals everywhere to stop from ruining the game for the melee classes. Is that still an issue in 5e? god no, haha. nothing like summon nature's ally exists. they just have more summon spells than any other class. it's still pretty bad, but it's not near what it was in 3.x
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Aug 30, 2014 03:32
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:god no, haha. nothing like summon nature's ally exists. they just have more summon spells than any other class. it's still pretty bad, but it's not near what it was in 3.x That's pretty good. Right now it feels like a delicate balancing act of contributing without contributing too much, which is sort of a dumb thing to have to manage in a game.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:36
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IPlayVideoGames posted:That's pretty good. Right now it feels like a delicate balancing act of contributing without contributing too much, which is sort of a dumb thing to have to manage in a game. My advice is to not play casters or in caster-heavy games. Or realistically, play 4e.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:42
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yeah this is a totally stupid thing to do, but banning any class that gets level 9 spellcasting works really well. it's not because level 9 casting itself is broken, but because all of these classes get things that make them broken in some way (for some, it IS the spellcasting)
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Aug 30, 2014 03:43
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Ferrinus posted:They're only thematically incoherent with fighters and rogues, though. Not with druids or clerics. In just the same way that "magic" can be used as the explanation for a thousand different discrete actions, "cleverness" or "heroism" or "skill" could be - it's just that only the former happens, ever. In pre-3rd editions, there was a hard cap on spells known per level, and even maximum level of spells able to be memorized, based on Int. Spellcasters have always been more powerful than other classes, but 3.x did a ton to really make spellcasters tons better by removing little things like this.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:51
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:yeah this is a totally stupid thing to do, but banning any class that gets level 9 spellcasting works really well. No, spells are the actual problem. Dare I say it is objectively the problem with 5e and other editions of D&D.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:56
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Strength of Many posted:No, spells are the actual problem. Dare I say it is objectively the problem with 5e and other editions of D&D. what I meant was, and tried to clarify in parenthesis, is that being ABLE to cast level 9 spells is not the problem. the spell lists themselves are what are loving ridiculous and put casters so far ahead martial classes. most classes that get level 9 spells also have very ridiculous spell lists. that said, I still think the martial <-> caster line needs a redesign as opposed to casters just being nerfed.
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Aug 30, 2014 03:57
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PeterWeller posted:You should cut down on the number of rolls. I'd skip the initial survival check, and instead just give him prof on the dex and str checks if he was proficient in survival or had an appropriate background. Jack the Lad posted:I mean no offence when I say this, particularly since you're a first time DM, but that's really bad. Thanks for the feedback. It did feel like too many rolls and I didn't want to spend all session checking the PHB so that seemed like the most appropriate course of action to let the player do what he wanted while still feeling like he earned it. I was generous with the DC on it, since we're all feeling out the system and learning together. Thank you!
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Aug 30, 2014 05:07
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Vorpal Cat posted:Except when he wins magic duals using only low level counter spells, an obscure wand rules the That was pretty much all luck and heart not his vast knowledge of magical lore. Harry wins maybe 1 or 2 actual magical duels and usually only because he blindsides the dude he's fighting.
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Aug 30, 2014 05:10
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Newbie question! I'm relatively new to D&D and brand spanking new to DMing, though I plan to host my own game in the coming weeks. I'm going to pick up the starter kit and run the adventure that comes with it, but I'd like to throw out the pre-generated characters in favor of letting my players create their own, as I think that's where a lot of the fun lies. Is there any reason I can't do this?
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Aug 30, 2014 05:18
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Sandwich Bender posted:Newbie question! I'm relatively new to D&D and brand spanking new to DMing, though I plan to host my own game in the coming weeks. I'm going to pick up the starter kit and run the adventure that comes with it, but I'd like to throw out the pre-generated characters in favor of letting my players create their own, as I think that's where a lot of the fun lies. Is there any reason I can't do this? There is no reason you can't do that. Your players may have varying levels of desire/comfort with making their own characters, so I would recommend taking the pregens along as 'examples' and let them crib from the pregens as much or as little as they individually choose.
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Aug 30, 2014 05:54
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So the fighter kinda loses out in combat and problem solving, so surely he excels in the social engagement pillar? Haha, remember when characters were going to be balanced across three pillars? What happened to that?
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Aug 30, 2014 06:08
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Elfgames posted:That was pretty much all luck and heart not his vast knowledge of magical lore. Harry wins maybe 1 or 2 actual magical duels and usually only because he blindsides the dude he's fighting. Harry wins numerous magic duels. He runs a secret magic dueling club.
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Aug 30, 2014 06:09
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PeterWeller posted:Ao is rewriting the Tablets of Fate and FR looks like it will turn into a "best of" version of itself. Details are still sparse at this point, as the Sundering novels only really covered the beginning of the event, it's still happening, and they are not (yet) working on a 5E campaign guide. What we know is most of the dead gods are/will be back, including Bhaal, and some bits of 4E FR will survive because of novel concerns. 'Best of' better mean that Maztica is coming back 
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Aug 30, 2014 06:34
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Maybe its just not being a big follower of Forgotten Realms, but I felt like the 4e campaign fit what I wanted out of a campaign. A whole bunch of things in upheaval, everyone in turmoil, everything going badly, and nobody coming to save everyone except the players. I felt like the 3e Forgotten Realms Guide was a pretty boilerplate fantasy setting, mostly maps and lists of locations that were more travelogue than hooks for adventure. If I were an FR completionist, I would totally see the draw of having everything mapped out, but I just wanted to jump in and start fighting villains and righting wrongs and there wasn't really a whole lot of that in 3e. I know that boilerplate Tolkienesque fantasy is kind of FR's "thing", but man I kind of liked the Saturday morning cartoon notes that 4e hit and I'll be sad to see them go. I'll settle for Maztica though.
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Aug 30, 2014 07:13
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Jack the Lad posted:If you haven't started to play yet, or even learnt the system, I don't think you're really in a position to make a call on whether or not caster supremacy is an issue in 5e. Yeah players are level 3 right now so have not really seen much of an impact. Did you really run that much caster supremacy issue when your group got into the higher levels? What did the wizard actually do that wrecked your game and how did your DM dealt with it?
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Aug 30, 2014 07:19
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D&D had a lot of great settings in it's time. None of them were the "mainstream" ones. It was stuff like Dark Sun, Planescape, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, etc. that was good. Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance were always poo poo.
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Aug 30, 2014 07:21
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Imazul posted:Yeah players are level 3 right now so have not really seen much of an impact. Burning hands, ended fight. Cast Sleep, enemy all skipped a turn. Etc etc
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Aug 30, 2014 09:35
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moths posted:So the fighter kinda loses out in combat and problem solving, so surely he excels in the social engagement pillar? Probably the same thing that happened to magic items not being required.
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Aug 30, 2014 09:48
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moths posted:So the fighter kinda loses out in combat and problem solving, so surely he excels in the social engagement pillar? Actually, somewhere along the way it morphed from "everyone should be able to contribute in all pillars" to "Fighter is 90% combat, 10% other; bard is 50/50" within the span of a few L&L posts, i.e. the former never even saw a playtest.
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Aug 30, 2014 10:00
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MonsieurChoc posted:D&D had a lot of great settings in it's time. None of them were the "mainstream" ones. It was stuff like Dark Sun, Planescape, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Al-Qadim, etc. that was good. Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance were always poo poo. I would actually play 5E Dark Sun and mostly like it. That setting fixed caster supremacy so hard it was glorious. In some ways, the 4E version of the setting was a bit flat because 4E didn't have the stupid caster imbalance to make the setting really make sense. Martial classes had carte blanche to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted. Casters had to live in absolute and legitimate terror of running their colors by casually casting a spell. Especially wizards.
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Aug 30, 2014 13:01
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Dark-sun? Thri-kreen unbalanced the party like a wizard in 5E BOOM 4 hands 4 swords all death.
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Aug 30, 2014 17:26
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Spoony just reviewed 5th edition http://youtu.be/jtaL5Bark54 http://youtu.be/MaIdRMelb74
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Aug 30, 2014 17:39
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I don't know who Spoony is.
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Aug 30, 2014 17:47
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S.J. posted:I don't know who Spoony is. You're not missing anything.
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Aug 30, 2014 17:51
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Played the D&D Encounters at PAX Prime. Just the quick 1 hour run. Made a level 1 Bard. The Weavers wanted us to buy an illegal dragon egg with fake diamonds and plant a tracking device on the sellers. The DM didn't appreciate haggling for half pay up front or us accusing the Weaver contact of being some sketchy dude up to no good just because he was a shadowy hooded figure asking us to do sketchy, no-good stuff. The exchange was supposed to go down in a barn, so the perfect diversion to get the tracking device planted as to send a couple people in to start the transaction, then light the barn on fire so the Rogue could pilfer stuff in the chaos. That got softly squashed. We bumbled our way through the exchange, it was explicitly a no-fighting encounter, and then, to our utter lack of surprise a bunch of thugs jumped us as we were leaving the barn. The fight ended in one action. I was first in initiative and used Charm Person on the leader then convinced him to take all his cronies and go get drunk with us.
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Aug 30, 2014 17:55
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S.J. posted:I don't know who Spoony is. Just imagine a typical grognards.txt post as a two hour video of a nerd sitting alone in his room yelling at a camera.
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Aug 30, 2014 18:03
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OctoberCountry posted:Just imagine a typical grognards.txt post as a two hour video of a nerd sitting alone in his room yelling at a camera. So, uh, is this guy happy about 5e or no?
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Aug 30, 2014 18:19
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He spent the first 12 minutes going over how distraught he was with the literal smell of the book. I got bored and tuned out after that.
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Aug 30, 2014 18:55
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Cyclomatic posted:I would actually play 5E Dark Sun and mostly like it. Only wizards had to be afraid of revealing themselves. Psionicists, clerics and druids had nothing to fear. Also, it was the setting that included a wizard sub-class that advanced at thief XP rates, and a hard splat that included rules for how your high level wizard could become a dragon, or your cleric an elemental prince. Oh, and it was literally run by rear end in a top hat epic level wizards. In short, Dark Sun did little if anything to fix caster supremacy. But it was still pretty drat awesome. You know what setting did fix caster supremacy? Spelljammer. Oh, you have all these awesome wizard spells at your disposal? Too bad; we need you in the chair driving our squid ship.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:41
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Didn't 4e Dark Sun also feature Divine classes plus a bunch of races being straight up banned?
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Aug 30, 2014 19:47
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Bhodi posted:Dark-sun? Thri-kreen unbalanced the party like a wizard in 5E BOOM They changes that in 4e: no more quadruple wielding.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:48
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My favorite (Most irritating) aspect of any of Spoony's rants about 4E are about how he complains about poo poo that was standardized in 3E (Sometimes 2E or even as far back as OD&D), carried over into Pathfinder (Which he states is his favorite tabletop system ever) and acts like it was 4E's fault. That and half his arguments betray the fact that he only ever cracked open the first three core 4E books (If not just the PHB) because anyone who has actually played it can prove him wrong in about five seconds flat. The other half of his bad arguments come from a misconception of what D&D is supposed to be, so it makes me wonder if he's ever actually played or ran D&D in his life. One of his videos was a huge rant about how he doesn't understand the mentality that players should have any agency whatsoever, that everything should be left to either the whim of the dice or DM fiat, and how he got banned from organized play for actively changing the rules so that the players purposefully got dicked over.
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Aug 30, 2014 20:04
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EscortMission posted:Maybe its just not being a big follower of Forgotten Realms, but I felt like the 4e campaign fit what I wanted out of a campaign. A whole bunch of things in upheaval, everyone in turmoil, everything going badly, and nobody coming to save everyone except the players. Oh, indeed. But some people like obnoxious overproduced fantasy boilerplate for their settings. For the rest of us there's the Nentir Vale, Eberron, Dark Sun, Planescape, and lots of others. The big problem the 4e Realms had is that people who don't like obnoxious overproduced boilerplate avoided it because that's what the Realms have been about since the mid 90s. And the people who liked the realms didn't get their obnoxious overproduced boilerplate and called the setting ruined. Naturally 5e has gone back to The Realms as obnoxious, overproduced boilerplate - and made it the core setting. As for who Spoony is, he's the sort of guy who creates a video about why he hates The Amazing Spider Man 2 that's actually longer than the film itself (no I haven't watched the video).
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Aug 30, 2014 20:05
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