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Iretep posted:Was it just me or was the sewers the hardest part of the game? Yes and no. There are like 2-3 exits to the ordinary sewers, which you can use to stock up on blood packs and ammunition if you need to. If you don't find those, then yes, your resources will be ground down. Even if you make use of the exits, those sewers still have lots and lots and lots of tedious combat. If your character is bad at combat, then it will be hard. If you've got somewhere between 5-10 in melee or ranged, then it's "only" tedious. By the time you get to the endgame, you'd drat well better have 10 in your chosen combat type, but the sewers represent a quite massive difficulty spike. There are some more difficulty jumps later on, but they're tied to areas which are shorter and/or actually fun to play.
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Aug 25, 2014 16:46
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The biggest problem I had with the sewers was that I ran pretty short on ammo, and since I hadn't levelled up my melee skills it was a bit hard. Even if you can return to the surface and buy more you just run out of money instead, and you only get more by progressing in the story.
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Aug 25, 2014 18:44
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Gunbunny Toreador has that pretty easy, but I just cheese the Vozhd(?) with SPAS. The fatties fall to one clip of Uzi or whatever Wesp has renamed it. It's just tedious and still annoying with the labyrinth level.
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Aug 25, 2014 20:53
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GuyUpNorth posted:Gunbunny Toreador has that pretty easy, but I just cheese the Vozhd(?) with SPAS. The fatties fall to one clip of Uzi or whatever Wesp has renamed it. It's just tedious and still annoying with the labyrinth level. The sewers don't have vohzd. Vohzd are the size of small buildings and require special Tzimisce magic to make work. The sewers are just war ghoul creations--incredibly dangerous in their own right, but still "pedestrian" as far as vicissitude creations go. We should probably wait for them to be actually played before further commentary though. :P
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Aug 25, 2014 22:05
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OAquinas posted:The sewers don't have vohzd. Vohzd are the size of small buildings and require special Tzimisce magic to make work. The sewers are just war ghoul creations--incredibly dangerous in their own right, but still "pedestrian" as far as vicissitude creations go. Probably szlachta, then. They're created similarly to a vohzd, but on a much smaller scale. You take one physically superior and favored ghoul and then graft it with one or two other ghouls to build it up. They're used as bodyguards, soldiers and spies rather than siegebreakers. They're also not animalistic or insane. Well, no more than usual.
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Aug 25, 2014 22:39
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Tyrone Biggums posted:Nope. Depending on whether a certain somebody survives up to that point, you can unlock a superweapon that turns those fights into baby poo poo. The sewers are infinitely worse. Oh don't worry wesp "fixed" that too. The superweapon doesn't do that much anymore.
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Aug 27, 2014 15:10
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Pumprag posted:Oh don't worry wesp "fixed" that too. The superweapon doesn't do that much anymore. He's really making me not want to use his mod
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Aug 27, 2014 15:27
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Vicissitude posted:Probably szlachta, then. They're created similarly to a vohzd, but on a much smaller scale. You take one physically superior and favored ghoul and then graft it with one or two other ghouls to build it up. They're used as bodyguards, soldiers and spies rather than siegebreakers. They're also not animalistic or insane. Well, no more than usual. Wait how do multiple people grafted together pass as spies? That sounds like something I would either take note of or run as far away as possible to avoid, either one making their job much more difficult.
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Aug 28, 2014 13:49
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Braking Gnus posted:Wait how do multiple people grafted together pass as spies? That sounds like something I would either take note of or run as far away as possible to avoid, either one making their job much more difficult. Well, they can be made into any shape. Smoosh a bunch of ghouls into each other until you get a triple-density ghoul that is stronger, faster, tougher, and can hold more blood than a normal ghoul.
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Aug 28, 2014 13:53
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  It came down to a flip of the coin.  Well, I tried to talk. Now we do things my way. The hard way.Boss fight! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjOIh8XUaUY  The fight begins with a bang. The gargoyle instantly charges at us.  Thankfully he hits one of the wooden support beams instead. This fight does feature minor environmental destruction, but it doesn't affect anything drastically, like collapse the roof for example. The owners of the Metridome should have taken architectural advice from whoever Issac Abrams commissioned to build this place.  This is what the gargoyle's health looks life after two swings of the sledgehammer connect with his stone body. This fight is difficult, but evidently the problem isn't that the gargoyle has an insurmountable amount of health.  The problem is that he can dish out more damage to us than we can to him in the same amount of time; also that our attacks can't stagger him, but the reverse is the opposite.  The trick is to back away when he uses his stomp attack, to always keep moving in order to dodge as many of his attacks as possible.  Unfortunately that toddler-esque stomp isn't the only weapon in his arsenal.  He'll also charge at you like in the beginning of the fight.  This can be avoided, counter-intuitively, by charging at him simultaneously and using that twist-move with the sledgehammer.  He can also punch, but you can avoid that with a well-timed attack. Strange, every movement this gargoyle makes reminds me of a baby: its awkward punches and stomps, not to mention that its ultimate attack, the quickly-stumble-forward maneuver. This gargoyle is a giant stone baby; the vampiric equivalent of this.  Dodge enough of the giant stone baby's attacks and land enough of your own, and that's it.   It crumbles into bits and pieces, whatever life-force previously holding it together having dissipated.  We're now three experience richer. Shoutout to WESP for decreasing it from the original six experience. Thanks for another nonsensical "enhancement". Back to Isaac.  I've killed the Gargoyle. I admit, I thought you'd come back here with a stone foot lodged in your backside, but I'm glad to see you've proved otherwise. You've got a lot of promise - it's a shame you're still working full-time on the wrong side. I've got nothing against the anarchs.Like I wrote before, I don't consider Isaac to be worthy of the anarch label inasmuch as the Kindred anarch movements relates to the very enumerical body of anti-authoritarian ideas called anarchism. Isaac Abrams is a shining example of the superficial elements of the anarchs. His relation to this movement is wholly negative and minimalist in the sense that it can be encapsulated fully in opposition to other vampire sects, rather than as a positive and maximalist relation in the sense of articulating a new social structure among libertarian lines -- at least as libertarian a society can be when comprised of vampires. Abrams, an anarch, uses his domain over Hollywood in an authoritarian manner, consolidating his own power, authority, and influence at the expense of all other Kindred. The vampires in the Last Round, also anarchs, fight for the creation of a new vampiric society comprised along the lines of the old French motto, Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité. These two contradictory elements cannot coexist in the same movement with any amount of cohesion. Thus the anarch movement taken as a whole is ideologically incomprehensible, comprised of differing and incomparable ideas united by the weakest of possible bonds: opposition to the prevailing, established order. If the anarch sourcebook is ever revised, white wolf will need to come to terms with what truly makes an anarch an anarch. But it's not like we have to tell Isaac any of this.  We also gain a masquerade redemption for telling Isaac the good news. We now have the option to inform Isaac of the gargoyle's creator, but I'm not doing that for reasons of game.  In order to fully complete the Gargoyle Removal Service quest, we have to inform Strauss about our actions.  So back downtown we go.  In other news, I'm using 9 of our 11 experience to put one more dot in Computer.  I'm then reading the Cowboy's Guide to Cyberspace by Case in order to increase our Computer skill to 5 dots. I'm unsure how vague descriptions of various colors and shapes helps us become a better hacker, but so be it.  Isn't that better? Maybe Strauss will think so.  I've resolved the issue with the Gargoyle, Strauss.A vague enough statement to suit both possible outcomes of the quest.  You did? That's quite an accomplishment for one so young, neonate. And with discretion as well. Again, you impress me. Just doing what I feel is right. The Fae Charm increases our dexterity by one dot, not to mention it looks creepy as gently caress.  Cool. See ya, Max. That's the end of our interaction with Strauss for a time. If we were a Tremere, we would've gained a new haven in the form of the floor upstairs. Now before we head to King's Way, there's one more thing we're going to take care of. The previous update posted:WESP's masterwork. As he told us, through Beckett, we need to use the sewers to get into the library.  Near the closest manhole to the library entrance lies an empty beer can on the ground. Or is it a beer can? Is it only a beer can because we think we see a beer can? Perhaps it's something more than a beer can; perhaps it's a corporeal manifestation of the Logos, the living information -- previously buried in the Nag Hammadi codices -- which is the true master of reality. Perhaps this beer can is really a satellite which fires pink beams of information-rich light down on the phenomenal, irrational, world created by the occluded God. Perhaps this is an example of what Heraclitus calls "latent structure", the true force that shape reality hidden behind the obvious structure. Or maybe it's just a beer can.  Anyway, directly across from where we entered the sewers is the entrance to the Library.   Or what leads to the library, at the very least.  The music is all sinister, but the only challenge down here is the elevator -- it doesn't function.  Attempting to activate the switchbox causes the vacuum tube -- yes, VACUUM TUBE -- to explode. What do we do now?  The solution to this impossible task is to pick up the replacement vacuum tubes in the corner of the previous room, then replace the busted one. Does this remind you of an incredibly simple puzzle you find in the very beginning of an adventure game? I think I know the reason why. The patchlog for the 8.4 version of WESP's patch states that WESP himself designed the puzzles for the library level. I'm unsure to what extent any of these assets were originally made by Troika. The patchlog previously mentioned hints that the library level was entirely a fan-made creation. In any case, we know that this was WESP's idea of a good puzzle.  I like to think that WESP thought the Los Angeles public library is powered by vacuum tubes, a technology that's been mostly phased out since the 1960's.  We take the elevator up, and as the door opens we're assaulted by a very unlibrarylike song.  This song, "Come Around", is never used in the vanilla game. Rik Shaffer, the composer of Bloodlines' music, revealed in an email with WESP that: Rik Shaffer posted:There was talk early on of an East Los Angeles Hub for the game in one of the numerous production meetings I attended at Troika. I was thinking hispanic influence Nines Rodriquez with Open Season. Open Season would have been that area's main theme. Instead WESP decided to use it here.  This place looks very odd. More like a shopping mall than a library.  I decided to try to take it stealthfully and avoid detection. Notice that the Los Angeles public library has no entrance other than a service elevator from the sewers.  There's honestly not much to say about most of the library -- though we haven't seen most of it yet. It's mostly just empty space. The patchlog says that this entire area was not made by Troika -- it was created through a collaboration between WESP and some other guy.  We now enter the main corridor of the library. There are four doors here, but only two of them aren't just painted on the wall, i.e. operable.  Again, I'm trying to avoid detection.  Behind door number one lies a plethora of paintings. I remember reading something WESP wrote about how he added these painting onto the model Troika left behind. Who knows.  Paintings.  More paintings. (Surely a museum wouldn't have those paintings on their wall).  Ancient and priceless artefacts, like that Sumerian bong on the right.  Enough of that. There's another door to go through.  This powerup is a Braid Talisman, which increases our Wits score by one.  Mumbly Joe looks suspiciously gaunt. Maybe he's a vampire in disguise.  Anyway, the important thing in the room is that computer. Maybe it's also powered by vacuum tubes.  The only thing to do with it is shove your library card in some nondescript orifice. We don't have that yet, and surprisingly it's not two feet away in the same room.  So back to the central corridor.  Behind one of the desks lies this note. We were in the storeroom, so presumably you need to also enter a password in addition to a library card. Two layers of security, similar to how there are two cops guarding this place.  Behind door number two is one giant area containing almost nothing to interact with.  The only purpose to this room is that it contains the library card.  Do I need to remind you what this is for? Back to the corridor.  At this point I got fed up with being stealthy.  There's no point. I know WESP, speaking poorly through Beckett, said that we shouldn't coat everything or blood or whatever, meaning don't kill anybody. What he doesn't tell you is that there are absolutely no repercussions for killing the two guards in the area.  Killing the first guard alerted the second. He's easily taken care of. Back to the computer.  We "enter" the library card and input the password awaken.  >unlock  Switched unlocked? What? You'd be at a loss as to what to do next if not for the quest log. WESP tells us that we unlocked a "secret switch", and that there could be a "hidden chamber" nearby. Why this switch had to be unlocked by a computer and why it would necessarily lead to a hidden chamber is a mystery. Yet simply unlocking the hidden switch doesn't reveal this hidden chamber. We now have to find and activate this hidden switch. Where is it, you might ask?  WESP gives us the most meat-fisted of hints by showing us this graphic on the floor. In the previous room was a painting with the exact same graphic, but larger.  WESP should not be making puzzles. The secret passage is back in the room with the computer, where the hint for the switch was.  You'd only know where this is by stumbling upon it.  One very  spooky passage later... We're lead into a giant chamber. Apparently this is where the "weird things" WESP told us about are happening.  Control is taken away from the player as their character moves toward the edge... Watch this piss poor Cutscene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qYYa4qYmPA  Who?  Huh?  What?  How?  "Victim" then obfuscates away. This cutscene was entirely fan-made, though I think that goes without saying. The vampire behind us speaks:  Oh, that's right. Part 32 posted:IT ALL COMES FULL CIRCLE!! This is awful. Everything about this is awful. The voice acting in particular. Boss fight! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_gPwL_DEAU  This is actually a really difficult fight. The LaSombra has a new UZI that can wreck your health. This is after two seconds or so right at the beginning of the fight.  It goes without saying that you'll want to stick to ranged combat. I had to use some of the blood packs we've accumulated since the beginning of the game.  To make matters worse for a melee-oriented player, the LaSombra has the ability to teleport around the chamber when his health gets below half.  You'll be able to land one or two hits on him before he teleports away. Again, stick to ranged combat, unlike what I did here.  Better yet, just don't install the plus patch. On the plus side, we did get two new useful weapons:  The broadsword is our best melee weapon yet.  And the IMI Uzi is very useful. So, to summarize, the "weird stuff" happening in the downtown LA library was some sort of Sabatt ritual. What the ritual was, why it required such a huge chamber, and WHY it had to be below the Los Angeles library is one big question that has no answer. Oh and on our way out  :WESP: Back in our apartment:  Goodbye to all that.
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Aug 28, 2014 15:12
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That is a truly terrible level.
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Aug 28, 2014 15:19
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I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Seriously what the hell is that?
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Aug 28, 2014 15:41
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gatz posted:Thus the anarch movement taken as a whole is ideologically incomprehensible, comprised of differing and incomparable ideas united by the weakest of possible bonds: opposition to the prevailing, established order. Nah, I think they know exactly what makes an anarch an anarch. In their foundational creed it laid out a blanket invite to any vampire 'who will agree to dwell in harmony with us', so they ended up with a lot of disparate people under their umbrella, most of them united only by their lack of desire to live under Camarilla rule. Hell, one of the founders of the Anarch Free State didn't believe in it in the end, selling it out to the Cathayans. Also keep in mind that the Anarch Free State probably owes it's creation, if not it's entire existence, to the Brujah, who are massively over-represented in the Anarchs. You might also recognize the name of another Brujah puppet-show - the Soviet Union. The Brujah threw their weight behind the Soviet Revolt right back in the start and thus had a lot of swing with the Soviets right up until Baba Yaga woke up in 1990 and made the entirety of Russia her bitch.
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Aug 28, 2014 15:56
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I don't even know what to say to all of that  let's just retitle this thread VTMB - only use the basic patch
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Aug 28, 2014 18:08
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The worst part? He probably spent years working on that.
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Aug 28, 2014 23:11
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"Hm, yes. A turnstile needs to go here." -Wesp
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Aug 29, 2014 00:10
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Well. Uhm. I guess at least if you installed the plus patch, you could just... not do that quest?
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Aug 29, 2014 00:12
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TheRagamuffin posted:"Hm, yes. A turnstile needs to go here." 9.0: Added Turnstile 9.1: Moved Turnstile 9.2: Restored Turnstile to Original Position 9.3: Moved Turnstile 9.4: Added new Turnstile Sound FX 9.5: Moved Turnstile 9.6: Removed Turnstile 9.7: Reintroduced Turnstile in Original Position 9.8: Moved Turnstile. 9.9: Rebalanced XP awarded for using Turnstile.
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Aug 29, 2014 00:20
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Psion posted:9.0: Added Turnstile 9.7a: put that loving sword on turnstile 9.7b: took sword off of turnstile, put it somewhere else
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Aug 29, 2014 00:26
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apostateCourier posted:Well, they can be made into any shape. Smoosh a bunch of ghouls into each other until you get a triple-density ghoul that is stronger, faster, tougher, and can hold more blood than a normal ghoul. Pretty much this.
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Aug 29, 2014 01:44
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Vicissitude posted:Pretty much this. I'm curious, can creatures created through Vicissitude be used as blood packs? It would seem to be kinda useful to use in a pinch.
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Aug 29, 2014 01:56
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I played through plus a few months ago and when I did the Lasombra was clean shaven and he instead had a very powerful pistol. Maybe wesp thought that it was too easy for shooter characters and decided to buff him with a better gun for offense, and bushy beard for defense?
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Aug 29, 2014 02:15
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What's the random DMP quest monster doing at the end of the level? There's no logic to it appearing. Do they have a demon on loan or something? What happened to the "victim" that disappeared?quote:
Directed by M. Night Shylawesp DeusExMachinima fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Aug 29, 2014 |
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Aug 29, 2014 03:06
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Dante Logos posted:I'm curious, can creatures created through Vicissitude be used as blood packs? It would seem to be kinda useful to use in a pinch. Sure can. And there's even something coming up regarding that.
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Aug 29, 2014 03:08
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Dante Logos posted:I'm curious, can creatures created through Vicissitude be used as blood packs? It would seem to be kinda useful to use in a pinch. We already got some kind of horrible flesh creature that supplies you with blood, pretty sure.
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Aug 29, 2014 04:03
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Ensign Expendable posted:We already got some kind of horrible flesh creature that supplies you with blood, pretty sure. Hey, don't talk about our Ghoul that way, she's had a rough life. 
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Aug 29, 2014 04:59
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For fucks sake wesp, can't you even get basic lore right? That Sabbat (the ones that you have doing a ritual to wake up the possible antediluvian) are the ones dedicated to destroying the antediluvians. That's the entire point of the Sabbat.
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Aug 29, 2014 10:03
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I just finished reading through the thread and I'd like to thank gatz for doing this LP and everyone else for all the cool background info on WoD in general. Earlier in the thread people were asking about recommendations on vampire fiction and I have a recommendation that wasn't mentioned. It's called Shiki, it's an anime but don't let that put you off, it's one of the least 'anime' animes I've seen. It starts off a little slow but once it picks up it doesn't stop. It has a very traditional depiction of vampires, it is set in a small rural Japanese town and in some ways it is reminiscent of Salem's Lot. One warning: It is relentlessly bleak and depressing, especially the later parts of the series, sometimes it makes stuff like WoD feel upbeat and hopeful.
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Aug 29, 2014 22:56
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I remember this one... I thought it was poorly planned out, and badly voice acted. but hey....a free sword and machine gun made me happy that I did it. And that's what really matters.... right? maybe? 
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Aug 31, 2014 07:01
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Dante Logos posted:I'm curious, can creatures created through Vicissitude be used as blood packs? It would seem to be kinda useful to use in a pinch. Yes, they have blood just like any other mortal creature. Getting it out of them might be difficult depending on the extent of the body mods done to them by the Tzimisce who did the work. I mean, take a look a the Cathedral of Flesh. Well, if you can find it. It disappeared centuries ago. And there's evidence to support the idea that it literally got up and walked away.
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Aug 31, 2014 16:44
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I appreciate that the whole thing may have been fan-modeled, but now I'm wondering if there's any lost geometry hiding on the original disk.
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Sep 1, 2014 00:28
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Vicissitude posted:Yes, they have blood just like any other mortal creature. Getting it out of them might be difficult depending on the extent of the body mods done to them by the Tzimisce who did the work. I mean, take a look a the Cathedral of Flesh. Well, if you can find it. It disappeared centuries ago. And there's evidence to support the idea that it literally got up and walked away. Elaborate on that one please.
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Sep 1, 2014 02:22
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Sir Shion posted:Elaborate on that one please. Back in the Dark Ages, one of the Tzimisce Antediluvian's direct childer, a bugfuck crazy dude named Yorak, used vicissitude to create a Cathedral of Flesh inside of an extensive system of caves in the Transylvanian hinterlands. The entire place was one gigantic living organism made up of luckless mortals and vampires who'd crossed Yorak's path over the centuries. Finally, in the late-16th Century, it gained enough of a gestalt sentience that it was able to launch an attack on Yorak when he was distracted by visitors. The visitors (who included a mortal Count Dracula) managed to escape, but Yorak was diablerized by his own creation. Afterwards, it got up and walked away. It appeared in a couple of later vampire stories as the home of a group of demon worshiping vampires, and later a group of corrupt werewolves, but it eventually got bored and just ate them. White Wolf never said what eventually became of the thing.
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Sep 1, 2014 02:45
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I believe it was also the final dungeon in Redemption. I quoted the relevant thread-provided lore dumps in my LP.
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Sep 1, 2014 02:49
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why'd it attack its master? Wouldn't that be the first failsafe put in place, like a bloodbond for inanimate objects or whatever
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Sep 1, 2014 09:02
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double nine posted:why'd it attack its master? Wouldn't that be the first failsafe put in place, like a bloodbond for inanimate objects or whatever Bloodbonds aren't perfect and Tzimisce creations tend to be more than a little crazy. Fleshcrafting is an unpleasant process to go through.
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Sep 1, 2014 09:32
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So wait, theres a temple made out of flesh running around the planet. Nobody has seen it actually run around and nobody really knows what it really wants either? It just appears occasionally and nobodys wondering what it wants?
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Sep 1, 2014 10:20
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Iretep posted:So wait, theres a temple made out of flesh running around the planet. Nobody has seen it actually run around and nobody really knows what it really wants either? It just appears occasionally and nobodys wondering what it wants? The whole thing originated as a part of the Transylvania Chronicles module set, which was a pretty cool story about how Dracula owned fools all over SE Europe. The scene where Yorak is diablerized by his creation, which later mysteriously vanishes, is neat as gently caress. I don't think that White Wolf thought about the implications any further than that.
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Sep 1, 2014 11:32
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Scene: late at night, a stoner takes a drag of a particularly potent herb. In the distance, he hears scurrying, as though a million rats were running across grass. Curious he looks out into the distance and in the light of the full moon, spies a giant church of flesh scuttling along the ground, crab like. He continues to stare as it moves over the horizon, before eventually putting down his wrap and swearing off ever smoking again. Somewhere in hollywood, a writer feels fulfilled for some reason, and he doesn't know why.
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Sep 1, 2014 11:47
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Iretep posted:So wait, theres a temple made out of flesh running around the planet. Nobody has seen it actually run around and nobody really knows what it really wants either? It just appears occasionally and nobodys wondering what it wants? Welcome to the World of Darkness! Things are kinda hosed up around here.
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Sep 1, 2014 12:58
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