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They really just don't care about the show or want it to succeed at all do they?
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Sep 2, 2014 05:56
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BrianWilly posted:INCOMING SPOILERS Well I guess we know why they went to all that trouble to introduce her now. 
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Sep 2, 2014 05:58
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Oooh, I knew that was going to be brought up eventually, but I initially thought it was gonna be a sub-plot with Korra's dad falling for her and Kuvira ends up being the main villain or a lieutenant of the Red Lotus. Either way, ggs, Nick.
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Sep 2, 2014 06:01
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I don't care anymore, more Avatar is good Avatar in my book.
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Sep 2, 2014 06:04
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Kimmalah posted:Well I guess we know why they went to all that trouble to introduce her now. And it was already perfectly explained by her being voiced by Zelda Williams. That is hilarious.
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Sep 2, 2014 06:17
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uncleKitchener posted:Oooh, I knew that was going to be brought up eventually, but I initially thought it was gonna be a sub-plot with Korra's dad falling for her and Kuvira ends up being the main villain or a lieutenant of the Red Lotus. Yeah I figured it would be just some romance subplot, I guess I'm just too naive for LoK. 
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Sep 2, 2014 06:17
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Let's be honest-- was anyone at all surprised by this revelation? They practically threw it at us in the last episode!
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Sep 2, 2014 06:20
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I didn't mind Book 2 quite as much as some of you, but Book 3 was pretty epic in comparison. The character designs for the villains was absolutely top-notch! No-Arm-Tentacle Lady was fantastic and creepy, but there were subtle things, too, like how Zahir was shorter than P'Li even though she was a woman and he was the big-bad of the season.
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Sep 2, 2014 06:32
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It's been said here before, but one of the things I really liked about the villains this season was that it actually felt like the odds were stacked against them, instead of it being like "Muahaha now our immaculate evil scheme shall unfold." They were fugitives on the run, everything they had to do was very risky, all their plans were rife with danger, their goals could be foiled at any given moment, and the four of them had nothing to rely other than their own capabilities. The fact that they were up against all those things made them seem more impressive when they did accomplish things.
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Sep 2, 2014 06:43
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Am I the only one who can't tell what the hell is going on in that 'spoiler'
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Sep 2, 2014 06:43
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Jackard posted:Am I the only one who can't tell what the hell is going on in that 'spoiler' Nope, I got no idea either.
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Sep 2, 2014 06:49
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Are we sure those are from book 4? Could they theoretically not be content cut from 3?
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Sep 2, 2014 07:51
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Hakkesshu posted:Are we sure those are from book 4? Could they theoretically not be content cut from 3? They don't really fit anywhere in book 3 because Kuvira is in Zaofu until the end of the season, while the images don't look anything like the city.
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Sep 2, 2014 08:00
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So, I just (belatedly) got the Book 2 BDs, and I've been listening to the audio commentary while doing other poo poo. One of the commentaries has given me a lot more respect for the writers/producers, in that they addressed the "fandom" or w/e you want to call it. The general consensus was "people posting about our shows online are the most extreme minority of an extreme minority of our viewer base, so we can largely ignore them", along with a hefty dollop of "everything we have seen from our online fans shows that they have truly awful ideas we should never, ever listen to". They then spent several minutes addressing a point this thread could do well to learn: they are writing teenagers (who do stupid poo poo all the time even when they know better), not rational-autist-bots designed to make the most ideal decision in every circumstance beep boop what is conflict
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Sep 2, 2014 09:10
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For those who might have missed it or can't quite see what's happening, here's the two semi-spoilery Book 4 shots from that trailer. Basically, all they show is Kuvira looking hella sinister with a bunch of what appear to be prisoners in the background, and then attacking the camera. No real spoilers besides 'Kuvira might possibly be not entirely on the side of the angels,' which drat near everyone already guessed.
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Sep 2, 2014 12:25
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(Post unrelated to all that spoilerchat) I was initially not that thrilled with this season because "random dudes get airbending powers and now Tenzin tries to remake the Air Nation" is the most esoteric plot poo poo I couldn't give a gently caress about, but the whole Red Lotus plot was cool and their motives were something I could relate to instead of yet another contrived spiritual/bending thing. I have to admit though that I was a little disappointed by how little interaction other than punching each other Red Lotus and Korra had. Between becoming a scapegoat by the President of Republic City and the Earth Queen being Almost Hitler, I thought that Korra would give the Red Lotus philosophy at least some though. I hope that it will be something that will come up in the next season, but it kinda worries me how the Red Lotus plot was basically capped by someone literally putting a smelly sock into Zaheer's mouth.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:06
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Rexides posted:
She might have a bit of a conflicting interest since her dad, her cousins, and her mentor are all world leaders too.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:24
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Rexides posted:(Post unrelated to all that spoilerchat) His philosophy really doesn't hold to careful scrutiny even if part of it wasn't 'kill the Avatar and end the cycle forever.' The Earth Queen was pretty objectively terrible but it's a long trip from that to "end the concept of leadership." Not to mention that Korra has plenty of examples of good leaders or at least leaders she trusts, several of whom are literally family members. There's not a lot to give though to. It isn't like there is only the option of 'kill the leaders" or "do nothing." Korra did her job as the Avatar and sacrificed her own well-being for the safety of others. In doing so she inspired the Air Nation to change and evolve and the President of Republic City to regret his actions. By being a heroic individual, Korra inspired others to be heroic individuals and work to make the world a better place. Avatar had never been a show about the individual achievement. Despite the fact that the Avatar is the Avatar, they've only ever succeeded through working with others, building friendships and bonds, and supporting unity. Leaders can be villains and monsters (like Ozai) but they can also be heroes (like Bumi.) The core message of the Red Lotus is in opposition to that and opposition to the core themes of the show. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 13:26
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KittenofDoom posted:I didn't mind Book 2 quite as much as some of you, but Book 3 was pretty epic in comparison. The character designs for the villains was absolutely top-notch! No-Arm-Tentacle Lady was fantastic and creepy, but there were subtle things, too, like how Zahir was shorter than P'Li even though she was a woman and he was the big-bad of the season. I kind of liked that too. That's just so rarely seen in any media (where the man's height isn't played for comedic effect). Rexides posted:I have to admit though that I was a little disappointed by how little interaction other than punching each other Red Lotus and Korra had. Between becoming a scapegoat by the President of Republic City and the Earth Queen being Almost Hitler, I thought that Korra would give the Red Lotus philosophy at least some though. I hope that it will be something that will come up in the next season, but it kinda worries me how the Red Lotus plot was basically capped by someone literally putting a smelly sock into Zaheer's mouth. Supposedly, the creators said that next season's villain would not be a Red Lotus member, for what that's worth.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:42
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Spergatory posted:For those who might have missed it or can't quite see what's happening, here's the two semi-spoilery Book 4 shots from that trailer. I love the fact that that gif just has her just suddenly flying towards the screen.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:49
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ImpAtom posted:His philosophy really doesn't hold to careful scrutiny even if part of it wasn't 'kill the Avatar and end the cycle forever.' The Earth Queen was pretty objectively terrible but it's a long trip from that to "end the concept of leadership." Not to mention that Korra has plenty of examples of good leaders or at least leaders she trusts, several of whom are literally family members. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 14:07
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I never said that Korra should have teamed up with the Red Lotus, I just said that in the context of some other plot points it would make narrative sense for her to at lease waver a bit. The end should have remained the same, no complains there.
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Sep 2, 2014 14:27
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DrSunshine posted:Let's be honest-- was anyone at all surprised by this revelation? They practically threw it at us in the last episode! All they really made obvious was that she was going to be significant in some way. Like I said I kind of assumed it would just be some silly thing with her and Korra's dad because of the way they kind of focused on the two of them talking, not making her into a full blown villain.
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Sep 2, 2014 16:59
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Kimmalah posted:All they really made obvious was that she was going to be significant in some way. Like I said I kind of assumed it would just be some silly thing with her and Korra's dad because of the way they kind of focused on the two of them talking, not making her into a full blown villain. We kind of dodged a bullet there though. Korra's relationship troubles are bad enough. Making us sit through a love triangle with her parents and Zelda Williams in the last season of the show would be peak awful.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:13
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I think the way Zaheer sold it colored what Korra thought about it. He sold it as "There are problems in societies, so kill all governments." Korra even came back with "Hey uh I don't like some leaders, but destroying all the governments is probably going to cause a lot of suffering." To which Zaheer is like "So?" Great sell, Zaheer, great sell. This is one of the issues with the short-season format Korra suffers from. The writers keep tackling concepts and plots that need more salesmanship on the part of the antagonists to be believable or sympathetic. Every season they've delved into what would be an extremely complex real-life situation, but even during the best season don't have time to give it the nuance it deserves. The Equalists really needed more narrative representation to sell their side of the story and explain to us, the audience, why their membership boomed and they were popular with the common folk. In real life, there are extremists plenty, but they are often largely ignored unless they strike a chord with the general populace. We got Amon sermonizing about being on a mission from God (the spirits), and that firebender criminals are jerks. Sato also says firebenders are jerks. We don't get any other character that really explains their position and really sells the Equalists' appeal. People are mad at the Avatar and benders, but why? In season 2, we have a "civil war" that really should have been given more organic attention. The Northern Water Tribals roll in on their Southern cousins because Unalaq wants to spread his brand of spirituality. Okay, I can live with that motive. But the whole dispute is given an episode or less to cook, and again they don't sell it very well. Some people are a little mean to each other and a little girl calls Korra a really lovely Avatar (she is right). So in Season 3, we get the Red Lotus. They are really cool, actually. Anarchy and chaos is a nice antagonistic contrast to fascism and order as seen in ATLA. But again, they don't sell it very well, or cook it into the show. Zaheer makes a comment about the White Lotus being too involved in world politics since the 100 Year War, but we don't really get that feeling. There's WL dudes down South guarding the Avatar, which seems like a job for them, and there's some guarding prisoners that believe in destroying the whole world and thus require an organization without borders to really contain them effectively. Another good job for the White Lotus. We see some helping out on Air Temple Island, where the Avatar lives. What they could have done this entire time during the show is basically show how far the White Lotus overreaches in World Politics, in explicit ways. The White Lotus being tacitly pro-bender at the expense of non-benders since the 100-Year War. Have the council in the first season be headed by a White Lotus member who pushes the White Lotus agenda even if it conflicts with the interests of Republic City. Have representatives be present around the Avatar, helping her but also making sure she doesn't really interfere with the WL plans. Korra quells the Equalist movement, but non-benders are still pissed off at how they're treated. The White Lotus can be shown as apathetic to their claims. By the time Zaheer rolls around, he exposition-dumps on Korra how she's been controlled by the overreach of the White Lotus, and they want to destroy the organization (and destroy all governments because they are bad guys). She's conflicted but eventually tries to stop them, to which they respond by trying to destroy the Avatar since she proves she cannot see things their way. To the Red Lotus, they see Rava and her earthly agent as the epitome of oppressive order, and if they can't use her to their ends, they will choose to end her. I just really wish they would have figured out what they wanted out of the show from the beginning. The Last Airbender had 60 some episodes to cook their singular over-arching threat. Korra has switched threats 3 times over half that amount of episodes.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:20
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Nichael posted:We kind of dodged a bullet there though. Korra's relationship troubles are bad enough. Making us sit through a love triangle with her parents and Zelda Williams in the last season of the show would be peak awful. Oh yeah I didn't mean I was looking forward to such a thing in any way.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:28
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So I only just got caught up (I watched the whole of season 3 in marathon over the past week). First off: How awesome was this?  I know I'm not the only person who cheered at that part. Secondly: I'm kind of wondering where the show can go for the next Avatar incarnation. On the one hand, they could play it safe and have their world stuck in some kind of medival stasis, with the next Avatar living in a steampunk world not much different than Korra's. Personally, though, I think it would be much more daring and awesome to have the series continue to move forward with our world, which would place the next Avatar sometime around their world's Vietnam War (assuming Korra survivies her world's WWI/II equivalents). How awesome would that be? The Avatar takes on Vietnam. All the social upheval and violence of that era would make for some pretty daring exploration. Plus, Avatar Korra would be the only accesible precursor to the new Avatar, so her relationship with the new one would be pretty close.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:39
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Applewhite posted:So I only just got caught up (I watched the whole of season 3 in marathon over the past week). First off: I had mixed feelings. I wish we had gotten to know P'li better as it was hinted that she had a more complex past than just joining up with Zaheer to be evil for evil's sake. If we had had a longer season, I'm sure we would have gotten more of an origins story for the Red Lotus: how they met, why they feel the way they do, see Ghazan at age 10 with a mustache, etc. Also the fact that we had a villainess who was taller than the main villain, her partner, and her height was never brought up and he was never mocked for being shorter than his girlfriend was pretty awesome.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:54
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Rosalind posted:I had mixed feelings. I wish we had gotten to know P'li better as it was hinted that she had a more complex past than just joining up with Zaheer to be evil for evil's sake. If we had had a longer season, I'm sure we would have gotten more of an origins story for the Red Lotus: how they met, why they feel the way they do, see Ghazan at age 10 with a mustache, etc. While I'm fine with what we got, I will agree that it almost felt like they'd written up a flashback episode for the Red Lotus that was intended to make them even more sympathetic and likable but then they couldn't find a place for it between everything else they had going.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:00
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Applewhite posted:I'm kind of wondering where the show can go for the next Avatar incarnation. On the one hand, they could play it safe and have their world stuck in some kind of medival stasis, with the next Avatar living in a steampunk world not much different than Korra's. Personally, though, I think it would be much more daring and awesome to have the series continue to move forward with our world, which would place the next Avatar sometime around their world's Vietnam War (assuming Korra survivies her world's WWI/II equivalents). Why would the Avatar world have a WWI/WWII and Cold War? How would even be the participants in a cold war?
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Sep 2, 2014 18:02
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I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that we may still get something like that in Book 4.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:03
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Rosalind posted:
I recall she did get called "that giant woman" once, but at 6'8" or whatever it's not inaccurate.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:07
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:Why would the Avatar world have a WWI/WWII and Cold War? How would even be the participants in a cold war? They'd probably skip WWI/II, as the closest Nazi analogues were the Fire Kingdom during the Hundred Years War. The Cold War would be between the (soon to be communist?) Earth Kingdom vs. The United Republic. Earth Kingdom was heavily stratified with a large and oppressed proletariat. It is recently leaderless and in a state of political upheval. I'd say that a pretty good case can be made for it becoming a Russia/China analogue in the near future. Republic City is in a pretty good position to mirror Vietnam-Era US as well, with "Spirit integration" mentioned explicitly in the show and the possibility of a pro-spirit counterculture brewing (the zany, outlandish appearence of spirits might make a good Y7-rated allusion to drug culture imagery). New Avatar could start out as super straight-laced pro-establishment type, but gradually become involved in the radical counterculture movement (possibly as a result of service in 'Nam analogue).
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Sep 2, 2014 18:15
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Applewhite posted:Republic City is in a pretty good position to mirror Vietnam-Era US as well, with "Spirit integration" mentioned explicitly in the show and the possibility of a pro-spirit counterculture brewing (the zany, outlandish appearence of spirits might make a good Y7-rated allusion to drug culture imagery). Why do it through allusion when they've already literally had a kid tripping on psychedelic cactus juice?
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Sep 2, 2014 18:18
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thexerox123 posted:Why do it through allusion when they've already literally had a kid tripping on psychedelic cactus juice? It's one thing to do it as a gag, it's another thing to make it a seriously explored plot point. I agree with your point, but I dunno if the networks would let it fly.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:19
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:who would even be the participants in a cold war? Ice benders. 
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Sep 2, 2014 18:23
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Applewhite posted:I'm kind of wondering where the show can go for the next Avatar incarnation.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:24
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Maybe they'll just go all-out and take the show into the future. Wasn't that a really early plan for ATLA before they settled on the 19th century steamships and colonialism setting we ended up getting?
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Sep 2, 2014 18:27
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Applewhite posted:So I only just got caught up (I watched the whole of season 3 in marathon over the past week). First off:
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Sep 2, 2014 18:28
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I'd rather see the story of an earlier Avatar than take the series further into the future. The industrial setting of Korra was kinda cool, but I think that a classic wuxia setting fits the bending elements better.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:38
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