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Radish posted:Sounds cool I'll try and look into that one. Play a little old d&d and you'll understand why 5e is everyone's second favorite D&D.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:37
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seebs posted:Clerics and wizards are relatively similar, but look at the huge gap between the play style of fighters and wizards in every edition other than 4e, and then look at how relatively-similar they are in 4e. Play style of fighters in 4e: Get right up in the enemy's face and pound them to a pulp until they beg for mercy, and beat them up if they even take their eyes off you. Play style of fighters in 3e: Get right up in the enemy's face and pound them to a pulp, trying to hurt them if they run past you to beat up the wizard. In other words pretty close. Playstyle of wizards in 4e in combat: In combat hang back, avoiding melee, and either blow the enemy up or frustrate them until the DM is tearing their hair out. Playstyle of wizards in 3e in combat: In combat hang back, avoiding melee, and either blow the enemy up or throw save or suck spells at them until they are unable to do anything. Playstyle of wizards in 4e out of combat: Pitch in where you can with your range of spells. If necessary use your ritual book to overcome tricky obstacles but it uses up money which is officially a limited resource. Playstyle of wizards in 3e out of combat: Pitch in where you can with your range of spells. Try to save spells because you don't have that many of them per day so they are officially a limited resource. Or use your money on scrolls. The two are not very different. seebs posted:I am not at all seeing this as "unrelated play mechanics". That they are all using the marking mechanic to begin with makes me think of them as structurally similar to each other, and everyone's got that same basic mechanic for how they use their powers, what resource management they have... That gap is a myth in 1e and 2e and was only accidentally in 3e. In 1e and 2e fighters have a cripplingly limiting factor. Hit Points. The fighter stops when the cleric runs out of healing spells. They can not go forever - and to try to do so is suicidal. They are tied to daily resources, it's simply that they have no control over their daily resources. In 3e this changed with cheap Wands of Cure Light Wounds. And other cheap and home made magic items - so the wizard can always keep a few scrolls in reserve. But you generally want everyone to stop at that point. quote:Okay, time for the car analogy. Well, the car analogy analogy. I'd have said that in 4e class variance was roughly comparable to the difference between cars and motorcycles. In 3e it's roughly comparable to the difference between top of the line racing bikes and ox-carts.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:02
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seebs posted:I get the impression that people are thoroughly sick of the "but all the classes play identically in 4e there's no differentiation at all" line, and are arguing against that, rather than against the claim I'm actually making, which is only that there are more That's wrong, though. 3e classes were either a normal person, or a normal person with a spell progression stapled on. Fighters didn't play differently from clerics - they were just clerics with empty spell slots.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:03
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Strength of Many posted:My only gripe with this is that at later levels your time will be better spent making multiple attacks for damage instead of one attack with a guaranteed crit. Still, very cool for low levels and very thematic. I would have made an Encounter power, but this is 5E so  More Tactics Ogre poo poo: Winged-Men +2 Dex, +1 Cha Fly: Winged-Men can fly at their normal speed. Because gently caress you, wing people. Nothing else, cause Flying is enough, no? 
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Sep 2, 2014 21:06
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seebs posted:I am not at all seeing this as "unrelated play mechanics". That they are all using the marking mechanic to begin with makes me think of them as structurally similar to each other, and everyone's got that same basic mechanic for how they use their powers, what resource management they have... Your comparison is meaningless
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Sep 2, 2014 21:09
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Ogre Battle map campaign with Tactics Ogre combat would be the bee's knees, stop making me want something that will never happen.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:09
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neonchameleon posted:Play style of fighters in 4e: Get right up in the enemy's face and pound them to a pulp until they beg for mercy, and beat them up if they even take their eyes off you. 4e Fighters have an entire toolbox of resources to actually effectively defend their fellow party-members, to deal meaningful damage, and to restructure the field of play. quote:
The two are staggeringly different, and to claim otherwise is to just flatly lie.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:34
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Jackard posted:Two players with the same noncaster class. In 3E they are identical. 4E they can play out very differently. The same can, roughly, be said of 5e The Monk, Paladin, and -maybe- the Ranger play different because, no surprise, they have spells and a resource mechanic to use by default. Meanwhile the Barbarian, Fighter and Rogue, fully a fourth of the classes in the game, are stuck to autoattacking with small modifiers at best unless you go for -- or allowed the privilege of, judging by D&D Encounters handing out Champion Fighters as in every pregen -- something like Battle Master. But that is not the default, it is an option when it should not be one.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:38
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I still think 13th Age handles the Wizard class better than just about any other d20-related system. It's structured in such a way that encourages versatility through creativity (especially with how its cantrips and the Utility Spell work) without giving them game-breaking power and scope. It's a fun class to play that feels like I think any reasonable player would want a Wizard to feel while also letting everyone else have just as much fun and narrative power.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:48
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Bassetking posted:Not even remotely true. Rather disingenuously false, actually. 3e Fighters had no effective means to punish enemies who disengaged from him, and had few resources to exercise a "Sticky" strategy, preventing foes from bypassing them entirely without fear of reprisal. I said "try" - they just aren't very good at it. quote:Except the 3e Wizard can send out his living simalcrum, which is permanently flying, invisible, and, should it be destroyed, the Wizard is unharmed. They can then just cloudkill+force cage and end an encounter, or use Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and end an encounter, and still have the ability to pick locks better than the rogue, grapple better than the fighter, bypass traps and obstacles, always go first in any encounter and never be surprised. And hurl fire and lightning. And read minds. And force anyone to do anything they want. and they can do all of this, and more, every single day. This all depends on the level. Once you have seventh level spells the game's completely out of control or the wizard's not really trying. I was looking at lower level, saner wizards.
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Sep 2, 2014 22:52
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Dude is basically saying "these classes all use a d20, they are more samey than another game where classes use different colored attack dice"
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Sep 2, 2014 22:57
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neonchameleon posted:This all depends on the level. Once you have seventh level spells the game's completely out of control or the wizard's not really trying. I was looking at lower level, saner wizards. Fly, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Sleep, Color Spray, Web .... need I say more? Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 22:58
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Strength of Many posted:Fly, Invisibility, Glitterdust, Sleep, Color Spray, Web .... need I say more? Yes. You need to pick a list of spells that the 4e wizard can't cast. Every single one of those spells other than Glitterdust is a wizard spell in the PHB (Glitterdust is in Arcane Power). The main difference in effects is that Invisibility is Sustain (Standard) and the attack spells are easier to save against.
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Sep 2, 2014 23:18
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Harrow posted:I still think 13th Age handles the Wizard class better than just about any other d20-related system. It's structured in such a way that encourages versatility through creativity (especially with how its cantrips and the Utility Spell work) without giving them game-breaking power and scope. It's a fun class to play that feels like I think any reasonable player would want a Wizard to feel while also letting everyone else have just as much fun and narrative power. What the 13th Age Wizard also does is that it's number of spell slots doesn't increase exponentially as they level. I like the fact that they basically trade away their lower level spell slots for higher level ones, but only gain a handful of new slots throughout their career.
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Sep 2, 2014 23:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:So I made a Archer path for the Fighter based on Tactics Ogre Archer, on a whim. I did this in 15 minutes with no knowledge of how game design, so I expect to be told how crappy it is soon. OK. Level 3 ability: It's a trap. Possibly not a deliberate one - but it's very situational. This probably needs calling out. Level 7: Does this combine with level 3? It's also save or Die - with a massive difference in power levels. How is e.g. Restrained equal to Paralysed or Sleep equal to Slowed? Level 15 - how does that interact with Level 7?
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Sep 2, 2014 23:44
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Do monsters on 3e/5e have access to the same abilities as pcs, like they do in 2e (monster crit hits are actually better) but not 4e? I.e. is it good idea to have a skill that lets you rip an arm off after an opposed strength check, if every ogre can do it too if it's put in?
mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 23:56 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 23:52
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mastershakeman posted:Do monsters on 3e/5e have access to the same abilities as pcs, like they do in 2e (monster crit hits are actually better) but not 4e? I.e. is it good idea to have a skill that lets you rip an arm off after an opposed skill check, but every ogre can do it too if it's put in? They are not built the same but they can do any basic thing the Pc's can.
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Sep 2, 2014 23:54
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neonchameleon posted:OK. Level 3 ability: It's a trap. Possibly not a deliberate one - but it's very situational. This probably needs calling out. As I said, I did this in 15 minutes. I was actually hoping people would help me fix problems.So how do I make level 3 not a trap? Do i just make it any time the character does a normal attack? Or a single attack per round? Level 7 I just used the special attacks Archers have in Tactics Ogre and used the closest D&D equivalent status effect without regard to balance. Maybe I should remove the Level 3 power and just have the Archer learning those in order, choosing between the Bow and Crossbow path? Edit: I was planning on Level 15 just giving a free normal attack every turn no matter what, as at those levels that doesn't seem like such a huge boost. So an archer could use Empyreal Shot and then a normal shot with their bows as part of their basic action.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:02
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Maybe this should go in the chat thread instead, but have you guys thought about compiling your game design philosophy on the Trad Games wiki or something? Some place where you can nicely set up explanations and examples of why ability scores are supposedly bad, or why caster supremacy is a thing, or why 3.5 fighters are boring to you. From five years of lurking in TG, people really like calling people just asking questions or not knowing any better lying dumbasses. Which, y'know, it's Something Awful and is fine. Except it's terrible when someone is genuinely trying to figure this stuff out. It took me two years of lurking to find a post that actually explained why ability scores aren't required in an RPG instead of just assuming that everyone reading innately knows why they can be problematic. Then when someone comes into the thread and asks why these things with 5E are a problem, you can just point them to a nice, detailed explanation.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:12
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Strength of Many posted:Can we get some hard quotes from any edition of D&D that says you are a Regular Joe Pleb? No, because those quotes don't exist. Quotes, rules, or implications* to the effect of "The PCs are heroes/special" exist in BECMI onwards. *When I say "implication" I'm not talking about my gut feeling or my weird interpretation of this one rule. I'm talking about things like how the BECMI saving throw table lists all the character classes and then Normal Man, or AD&D having the concept (and table entries) for 0-level while all PCs start at level 1. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 00:13
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MonsieurChoc posted:
Level 3 ability is a trap because most of the time attacking twice will do more damage than blowing a turn for an auto-hit critical. An easy way to fix it, and have it interact better with the other abilities, would be to change them to something like: Tremendous Shot Fighter 3 If you haven't moved yet this turn, you may sacrifice mobility to launch a powerful attacks. When you use Tremendous Shot, attacks you make with a Bow or Crossbow have Advantage and deal +1[W] damage, but your speed is reduced to 0 until the beginning of your next turn. ([W] is the amount of dice you would normally roll for damage. EXAMPLE: A Longbow deals 1d8 damage. Tremendous Shots with a Longbow would deal 2d8 damage.) Then at level 7 increase Tremendous Shot damage to +2[W] and let them choose effects from the list you have. Level 15 ability would read/play much easier if it was just "Successful attacks with a Bow or Crossbow deal damage twice." Level 18 ability, eh I'd just leave it as it. It'll end up being ridiculously strong but that's when the full casters are getting 9th level spells.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:18
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mastershakeman posted:Do monsters on 3e/5e have access to the same abilities as pcs, like they do in 2e (monster crit hits are actually better) but not 4e? I.e. is it good idea to have a skill that lets you rip an arm off after an opposed strength check, if every ogre can do it too if it's put in? Yes because that already exists w/r/t casters and monsters. See: most high CR enemies having Spell-like Abilities or Spells outright. 'oh no they might use the Fighter's power to rip off arms against him!' is the least of your worries when monsters can run around casting Cloudkill or Forcecage or whatever. Especially with magic healing handwavium. If anything it'd give non-casters ~options~ to disable and drag powerhouse enemies down to their level. Honestly, who wouldn't want to play the Barbarian to sundered the leg of the Tarrasque and stopped its rampaging charge? Or the Fighter who cleaved the arm off the Balor, dis-arming (heh) his whip that had previous ensnared a comrade?
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Sep 3, 2014 00:33
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ImpactVector posted:LEGO minifigs make the best minis. This statement is the most important and true thing in the entire thread.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:43
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Solid Jake posted:This statement is the most important and true thing in the entire thread. No, the one true way is little plastic army men. You are wrong and bad and I hate you and stop telling me I'm having fun wrong. Little plastic army men are like poems and sunshine and therefore produce the correct feels for optimum fun. Furthermore, lego mans are like broken glass and world of warcraft. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 00:56
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AlphaDog posted:No, the one true way is little plastic army men. You are wrong and bad and I hate you and stop telling me I'm having fun wrong. Of course you would endorse old edition army men you drat grodnard! New edition hand painted to look like brave adventurers Lego men trumps your smelly green men any day.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:01
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PeterWeller posted:When Cronos reigned in heaven, not on Olympus. It's an important distinction. The "deathless gods who live on Olympus" are specifically the Olympian pantheon, distinct from the Titans by their immortality and their dwelling place. The version of the myth he's thinking of comes from Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound. Zeus wants to wipe all evidence of the Titanomachy from the Earth including humans so he visits a great ice age upon them.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:02
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dichloroisocyanuric posted:Except it can certainly feel that way at low levels when you're not fighting dragons or contradictory gods or whatever else. In fact, that was the entire point of my post! I even went on to clarify things that you're trying to point out to me. D&D is incredibly bad for running a 'real world' type game. It just has far too many mechanics which completely throw apart any sense of tension or logic you would assume from a real world. For example. Clerics can create infinite food out of thin air. Why would anyone be a farmer as opposed to just having lots of clerics mass producing it from their god. This would result in literally everyone being a worshipper of one god and never farming. Agriculture simply would not exist. Teleportation is a thing. This means there would never be a rural community since it meant not being around a wizard with teleportation. You can raise people from the dead. This alone removes literally any pretence that this is a world with consequences outside of setting up the idea that all industry is devoted to mining gold and diamonds to fund your future resurrection fund. Hell, just the simple nature of being able to cast the light cantrip would radically alter the way the world developed. I love 'real world' games and games that simulate genres but I would never try and run D&D straight and expect any sense from it. If you like that stuff try something like warhammer fantasy. Pretty crunchy, has the whole living dangerous feel as player characters are pretty fragile with magic that is a big threat and treated as an actual living part of the setting with restrictions and a big focus on the consequences of having magic in a medieval/renaissance fantasy setting.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:36
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To be fair, 4th Edition fighters and wizards are fairly similar. They can both contribute to combat.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:46
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kingcom posted:D&D is incredibly bad for running a 'real world' type game. It just has far too many mechanics which completely throw apart any sense of tension or logic you would assume from a real world. For example. Clerics can create infinite food out of thin air. Why would anyone be a farmer as opposed to just having lots of clerics mass producing it from their god. This would result in literally everyone being a worshipper of one god and never farming. Agriculture simply would not exist. Teleportation is a thing. This means there would never be a rural community since it meant not being around a wizard with teleportation. You can raise people from the dead. This alone removes literally any pretence that this is a world with consequences outside of setting up the idea that all industry is devoted to mining gold and diamonds to fund your future resurrection fund. Hell, just the simple nature of being able to cast the light cantrip would radically alter the way the world developed. Its hell for any sort of real world simulationist crap, but I do like the idea of figuring out how such a world would develop.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:47
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kingcom posted:D&D is incredibly bad for running a 'real world' type game. It just has far too many mechanics which completely throw apart any sense of tension or logic you would assume from a real world. For example. Clerics can create infinite food out of thin air. Why would anyone be a farmer as opposed to just having lots of clerics mass producing it from their god. This would result in literally everyone being a worshipper of one god and never farming. Agriculture simply would not exist. Teleportation is a thing. This means there would never be a rural community since it meant not being around a wizard with teleportation. You can raise people from the dead. This alone removes literally any pretence that this is a world with consequences outside of setting up the idea that all industry is devoted to mining gold and diamonds to fund your future resurrection fund. Hell, just the simple nature of being able to cast the light cantrip would radically alter the way the world developed. I think that the best kind of fixes to these (legitimate) problems are relatively logical and easy to work into any game. In the case of Wizard Magic - all of them are either self-interested or part of an organisation that is self-interested. Sure they could make ever-lasting lights for peasants easily, but what is the point of phenomenal cosmic power if you don't act selfishly and drive a healthy profit? In the case of Divine Magic - we've just spent pages discussing how petulant the Gods generally are. It's logical to assume they would feel their Divine Power should not used just to avoid an honest days work. God is here to be worshiped - not to be your slave. In short, everyone is selfish and unless you have power yourself - you should probably get back to your farm and hope to god you have enough turnips for the winter you filthy peasant.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:53
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Misandu posted:Level 3 ability is a trap because most of the time attacking twice will do more damage than blowing a turn for an auto-hit critical. An easy way to fix it, and have it interact better with the other abilities, would be to change them to something like: Thanks for the help. Here's a Revised version: Tactics Ogre Archer Level 3 – Tremendous Shot: If you haven't moved yet this turn, you may sacrifice mobility to launch a powerful attacks. When you use Tremendous Shot, attacks you make with a Bow or Crossbow have Advantage and deal +1[W] damage, but your speed is reduced to 0 until the beginning of your next turn. ([W] is the amount of dice you would normally roll for damage. EXAMPLE: A Longbow deals 1d8 damage. Tremendous Shots with a Longbow would deal 2d8 damage.) Level 7 – Tremendous Shot is upgraded to +2[W] damage, and the Archer selects one of the additional effects from the list that is added to Tremendous Shot: Slumber Shot (bow): The Target is put to Sleep. Flaming Blast (bow): Damage is considered Fire. The target is Charmed. Empyreal Shot (bow): Damage is electricity. The target is Stunned. Brimstone Hail (crossbow): Damage is only +1[W] but hits a circle of 10-foot radius. Dullbind (crossbow): Target is Restrained. Sanctum Flare (crossbow): Target is Paralyzed. The effect is cancelled by a Dex saving throw with a DC of 8 + Proficiency Bonus + Archer's Dex Modifier Level 10 – Eagle Eye: Spend an action to make sure the next ranged attack of all allies in a 15-feet radius Auto-Hit. Roll only to determine critical hits. Level 15 – Double Shot: Successful attacks with a Bow or Crossbow deal damage twice. Level 18 – Another Effect from the list is added to Tremendous Shot. It can now be used without sacrificing mobility. I removed two of the effects because I thought they weren't as good (or interesting) as the others. Also I wish I had a better name than "effects". MonsieurChoc fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 01:58
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In a world where learn cantrips and first-level spells, as well as crossbow, staff, etc is equivalent to learn all armour and weapons... Why aren't an army's "archers" dudes who have trained in short sword and firebolt rather than short sword and crossbow? You'd save money on equipment, and they could step up to magic missile and eventually fireball instead of +1 to hit with crossbow and eventually some other poo poo archers don't need. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 02:02
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:The version of the myth he's thinking of comes from Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound. Zeus wants to wipe all evidence of the Titanomachy from the Earth including humans so he visits a great ice age upon them. Ahh, okay cool. That's definitely a conscious departure from common belief.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:04
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Serdain posted:I think that the best kind of fixes to these (legitimate) problems are relatively logical and easy to work into any game. The fallback is people who know how to do this stuff are all collectively selfish and nobody can has ever done this for selfless reason. Cause I mean, its not like there have been literally thousands of people in the real world who had access to stuff far beyond what the average person could do and did then share that technology and research to improve the world. See for this to fall apart, all you need are either a handful of enterprising spellcasters to start selling their cosmic powers or alternatively have some wizards who are not huge assholes and explain that its not actually just cosmic power, its a set of instructions written in a book in a book in a way the common person can understand. That the concept of using a sword and dueling was just a method to keep the poor peasant population in check from threatening the rich. You don't need training or skill or even luck to wield a wand of magic missile. Magic is a specifically designed set of logic in the D&D universe that has reliable and measurable constraints. Ironically there is nothing actually magical about it. It is just some extra laws of physics in the universe that are identifiable. It's just a different kind of science. Which means unless your doing some religion war world where magic is dominated by gods pumping overwhelming power to clerics to let them do literally everything. You have wizard science world where everyone is aware of what it is. Some understand it and study it. Some dont and just wait for the town wizard to fix their iPhones. Or just play Eberron cause it does the best job at running this. Also even if you assume all gods are selfish assholes, having your population be completely dependent on you for their very survival seems like a good plan. Plus it gives them all that free time to worship and obey your will by going out and murdering the group of people getting their dinner from the god who isn't you. Hell it suddenly explains why evil gods get worshipped for any reason. I mean Asmodeus isn't really that bad of a candidate if his priests show up in the slums every night to feed the needy. Suddenly you get yourself a population who is more than ready to support you since you've supported them.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:06
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kingcom posted:D&D is incredibly bad for running a 'real world' type game. It just has far too many mechanics which completely throw apart any sense of tension or logic you would assume from a real world. For example. Clerics can create infinite food out of thin air. Why would anyone be a farmer as opposed to just having lots of clerics mass producing it from their god. This would result in literally everyone being a worshipper of one god and never farming. Agriculture simply would not exist. Teleportation is a thing. This means there would never be a rural community since it meant not being around a wizard with teleportation. You can raise people from the dead. This alone removes literally any pretence that this is a world with consequences outside of setting up the idea that all industry is devoted to mining gold and diamonds to fund your future resurrection fund. Hell, just the simple nature of being able to cast the light cantrip would radically alter the way the world developed. I don't disagree with any of this, so I do want to point out that my point of view was simply based on the 4e vs 5e for this thing discussion. For a long time, I had groups that suffered from, "Let's just go back to playing DnD." I'm definitely not trying to say DnD is good at emulating the regular joe roleplay (the mechanics would break the theme faster than the adventure could), but I still find the idea of a kill-or-be-killed goblin fight thrilling and that kind of stuff is really only present at early levels. I do, however, like DnD for what it actually is, so I'm not trying to misrepresent the system.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:08
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So I'm giving this edition a shot by playing a totally rear end in a top hat Wizard who thinks he's better than everyone. What are the decent 0-2nd level spells to have the most impact early on? Mage Hand and Prestidigitation seem to give you a lot of space to gently caress around with stuff for free, Unseen Servant and Tenser's Floating Disk add a lot of utility (and are rituals), and Sleep seems really nice for winning encounters if your DM will let you aim it properly. What else? I hear Tasha's Hideous Laughter is good but doesn't the target get a save every turn against it?
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Sep 3, 2014 02:18
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Boing posted:So I'm giving this edition a shot by playing a totally rear end in a top hat Wizard who thinks he's better than everyone. What are the decent 0-2nd level spells to have the most impact early on? Mage Hand and Prestidigitation seem to give you a lot of space to gently caress around with stuff for free, Unseen Servant and Tenser's Floating Disk add a lot of utility (and are rituals), and Sleep seems really nice for winning encounters if your DM will let you aim it properly. What else? I hear Tasha's Hideous Laughter is good but doesn't the target get a save every turn against it? The best cantrip for shenanigans is Minor Image (and do not create a Minor Image of a barstool for your teammates to sit on). Presti is great for looking immaculate.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:26
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neonchameleon posted:Yes. You need to pick a list of spells that the 4e wizard can't cast. Every single one of those spells other than Glitterdust is a wizard spell in the PHB (Glitterdust is in Arcane Power). The main difference in effects is that Invisibility is Sustain (Standard) and the attack spells are easier to save against. Those are actually pretty major differences! You're also overlooking the fact that the the 4e wizard gets all of those spells but Sleep at a higher level than they did in 3e - 11 levels later, in the case of Fly. There are other major difference in effects as well, like the fact that Color Spray only dazes the target for one round in 4e, versus possibly inflicting several nastier conditions all at once for several rounds in 3e.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:27
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Boing posted:I hear Tasha's Hideous Laughter is good but doesn't the target get a save every turn against it? It gets the save at the end of it's turn, so if it fails to save it's out for at least one round, which is nice. The reason I'm remembering it as a good spell might be someone did the math and found that it's no very likely that a reasonable-level opponent is going to pass the save. I'm not sure about that though. I could be thinking of something else. E: Napkin math. A first level 18 int wizard casts the spell with DC 14 wisdom save (8 + prof mod 2 + int mod 4), which means that monsters in the free PDF with a +0 wis modifier (like orcs, gnolls, hydras, lots of others from a quick scan), will save 6/20 or 30% of the time. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 02:31
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kingcom posted:Long post But Wizards creating Magic Items like wands have to use XP and Gold to do so.. it's like saying "it's impossible to imagine that a Private Military Contractor wouldn't eventually just give every citizen assault rifles because they don't even need to be trained to use them" Otherwise, for every organisation that wants to publish "Whizzarding for Dummies", there are probably three Gods and seven Cabals that will stop them out of self-interest. For every God that wants to invest their power in feeding the needy, there will be other Gods that start paying attention who see a chance to knock them down and steal their stuff. I like to think of Clerics as a God investing their power for potential returns on said power - as all Gods are in contention. 
Serdain fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 02:42
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