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Sulecrist posted:I think 7th might be my favorite version of the game, and I played everything except Rogue Trader (although my 5th and 2nd edition experiences were cursory). I wish a few things were different--talking about the game, now, not GW as a company--but generally speaking I really like the vast majority of the changes. I can't disagree with this more! But its cool if you're having fun with it. LingcodKilla posted:Yeah the more I look at the new codexes the more I realize I'm uninterested in keeping up with lovely half assed codexes chopped up to remove more money from me. I'd much rather buy more models than waste cash on soon to be obsoleted paper. Since I play with a small group of very old friends I'm thinking about giving up on trying and just stagnating on rules. We play so infrequently I think only did like 6 games before the game version changed. Love the new models and painting but the actual game itself? Not friendly to really casual players. Ive been sticking with 6th edition and old codexeseses for the last few months, but after a while it just gets kinda lame. Like 6th wasn't even that great, considered using mega house rules to fix things we don't like but at some point its easier to just say eh, lets just not play and paint and model instead. I still like Kill Team and Necromunda though. ^ 
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Sep 2, 2014 11:14
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I may have caused a massive price hike on necromunda mini's on ebay some years back. On the plus side I own more than 300 metal necromunda mini's! *whistles* Now I just need people to play it with.
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Sep 2, 2014 13:46
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Feast of Blades invitational Trip Report: My list, 1500 White Scars/Knights Chapter Master, fist, 2+, shield eternal, bike Captain, Burning blade, 2+, bike, stormshield command squad, bikes, apothecary, 4x meltaguns 2x scouts 3x stormtalons, skyhammers Knight paladin Game one: Space wolves, pod, landraider, rhino, block of wolves, bikers with attack bike, 2 HQs and not a lot to handle the knight. I let him go first and he shoots my knight doing a couple hullpoints. I go, kill his pod squad with my bikestar and catch his bikes in a big multiassault. his pod dies to the knight. He charges my deathstar with everything, I lose 2 bikes and most of his squads run away, I fail to hit and run out. My planes and scouts come on and start cleaning up. He charged back in, killed me down to the chapter master with one wound who challenged out an HQ. The knight came in to bail out the CM (so the CM wasn't in the combat solo, everyone else in the combat had to swing at the knight even though they couldn't hurt him). I clean up the combat, continue to shoot everything on the table and wind up tabling him on 5. I only lost the command squad. Max points. Game 2: Demons/Space Marines. corn dogs, 4 heralds, 3 talons, a raven, 2 scouts, libby, nurglings, and also my roommate. We've played this game out a lot and it usually comes down to whos airplanes come on second. I went second. He tried to bait a charge. I shoot and kill a few dogs and move my knight to protect my bikes. He charges my knight, doesn't explode it and loses 3 herlads in stomps. I go, charge in with the bikes and table him. None of his reserves came in on 2 (by design) but since I was bottom of the turn he had nothing on the table and lost. Game was over in 30 minutes including setup. Max points. Game 3: 4 troop bike squads (2 grav 2 melta), 4 grav command squad, CM, khan, thunderfire, 2 talons. He wins rolloff and deploys very broadly. I setup in the corner with my knight up front and totally clustered away from his thunderfire. He makes me go first. I kill part of a squad with orbital and battle cannon another. He spends his turn moving to get me into range but doesn't get much off. I go, cannon out 3 bikes which run 18 inches off the board, and my airplanes pick out all the melta guns. The knight charges another squad doing nothing. My HQ squad fails a charge. He hit and runs out and unloads into the knight doing 4 hull points. I go, force an airplane to jink, kill 2 squads in shooting/CC, and fail another charge with my command squad. He backs up and taps grav at me and charges with his chaptermaster solo who gets D'd out before he swings. I go, kill the command squad down to the apothecary, kill his techmarine with scouts, and stomp out the squad behind the knight, and kill the last bike squad with my command squad, and shoot down an airplane. He goes and runs but kills my knight with his last plane. I go, kill off whatever is left except the apothecary and the game ends. Max points. Deathstar bikes and knight worked pretty well. For 1850 I'm going to throw in another knight because I don't think grav-cav troops is really where it's at right now. I don't want to have to rely on my alpha to win. I also don't think I'll be able to make Denver this year. 
Naramyth fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 15:34
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What kinds of scouts were you using?
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Sep 2, 2014 16:08
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Sulecrist posted:What kinds of scouts were you using? 5 pistol/CCW 5 bolter. They outflanked. Ideally I'd probably run 10 pistol/CCW but it's what I have modeled and 
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Sep 2, 2014 17:10
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Sulecrist posted:I think 7th might be my favorite version of the game, and I played everything except Rogue Trader (although my 5th and 2nd edition experiences were cursory). I wish a few things were different--talking about the game, now, not GW as a company--but generally speaking I really like the vast majority of the changes. I'm going to second this. I am having more fun than ever with 7th. My gaming group helps. They are a solid crew.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:12
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Over the weekend I played two games with a guy who played Chaos in 3rd and 4th. I brought the terrible list I posted her Friday because I knew he'd be doing Khorne melee heavy and I wanted to have a bit of a handicap. Lately, our group's games have taken place on a hive planet that's in full rebellion against the Imperium. Tau are largely in control, which is why Imperial forces have been mostly leaving it alone for the last couple of years--there are bigger fish to fry elsewhere in the subsector, and at least with Tau you know the world will be in comparable shape when you get it back. My last campaign was a three-part rivalry setup where my Space Marines attempted to wreck the planet's most advanced manufactories to prevent the Tau from equipping the guela with Tau-designed aircraft and battlesuits and escalating to full scale war. My Marines mostly got their asses kicked but managed to seriously wound the Tau general and his senior officers before retreating into the underhive. Anyway, the forces of Chaos are capitalizing on the power vacuum and Tau tolerance. Rival groups of powerful traitors, including some renegade Marines, have been rousing cults and leading howling mobs of heretics into the open. Our first game this weekend represented two Chaos warlords coming to blows over leadership of these forces. This fight attracted the attention of the Tau, who didn't realize the level of danger these insurgencies represented or that this was anything more than petty human gang violence. So our second game was an ostensibly three-way bloodbath set in the ashes of the first battlefield. The Tau came in expecting to mop up the survivors of our power struggle but found themselves badly outnumbered by the suddenly cooperating Chaos forces. Of course I couldn't resist having my lovely mob of Autogun cultists emptying their clips into their rivals when they strayed too close, so the Khornates had to come across the table and teach me some manners. Ultimately everyone had a great time. My sorcerer survived and got the Conqueror of Cities Warlord Trait which I'm pretty chuffed about, although I think I'll dump his spells. I didn't get Invisibility in either game but I did enjoy Hallucination, which resulted in the death of a very surprised battlesuit squad commander. And Psychic Shriek is amazing.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:42
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Ghost Hand posted:I'm going to second this. I am having more fun than ever with 7th. Thirded. 7th is fun, even though I always do terribly.
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Sep 2, 2014 17:52
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Squifferific posted:Thirded. 7th is fun, even though I always do terribly. Yeah, add me as a fourth. I don't particularly like the proliferation of data slates and other digital rules supplements. But the rules are a solid evolution of 6E's, Maelstrom missions are really fun, and the hardbound codices are generally pretty good.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:06
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Ghost Hand posted:I'm going to second this. I am having more fun than ever with 7th. Whoa, Carl is happy with a GW product... I... I'm not sure how to take this, my world view is shocked!
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Sep 2, 2014 18:08
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Ok, trying to start a Grey Knight/Inq allies army to get back into this whole 40K thing. Does this look OK for a startup list? It's not supposed to be super competetive.code:
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Sep 2, 2014 18:16
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Ghost Hand posted:I'm going to second this. I am having more fun than ever with 7th. 7th has directly impacted both of my main armies, Dark Angels and Eldar. The change to jink (appropriately) nerfed my Wave Serpents and I'm ok with it, but it rendered my Ravenwing more useless than previous. The change to reserves, however, means my Deathwing now functions as intended, so I've had a lot of fun playing a new Deathwing list. I have yet to see a Perils from psychic stuff and the Eldar guy I play against doesn't go nuts with the powers so I may not have seen the full extent of how the psychic phase changed. So far I've played against IG, SM, Eldar, and Tyranids in 7th. And one very, very silly Necron game with 6 Wraithlords, 2 Wraithknights, and 2 Avatars against an unbound army of entirely Deathmark squads. I will say that every Maelstrom game I've played has not been balanced well. Drawing the right cards has led to sudden insurmountable victories in nearly every tactical card game I've played. I keep playing it because I want it to make the game more interesting but I think I might give up on it. Edit: Thought more about modifying my Iyanden list, here's the new idea: code:I took out the Fire Prism, Wraithlord, and one Crimson Hunter and put in another Wraithknight and 2 more Spiritseers, so every squad rides with a Psyker. I was really impressed by my Spiritseer last game, and it gives me some extra psychic defense. I am still back and forth between the remaining Crimson Hunter or keeping the Fire Prism - my serpents can hit flyers but their firepower is usually what I need for the rest of the enemy army, but the Fire Prism is tougher and more versatile, especially against marines out of cover. If I take the Fire Prism instead, that gives me 55 points to work with, which I guess I'd use for Holofields? Not really sure. Edit for poster above me: HardCoil posted:Ok, trying to start a Grey Knight/Inq allies army to get back into this whole 40K thing. Does this look OK for a startup list? It's not supposed to be super competetive. So I'm guessing this is a mass deep strike army? I don't play Grey Knights but just some issues I see: - not very shooty. 3 psycannons, 1 heavy psycannon, 3 plasma guns, 3 plasma cannons. The plasma's not bad but it's on very squishy targets, and you can't fire all 3 plasma cannons out the rhino at the same time. - Unreliability of deep strike. I play a Deathwing assault army but with the Deathwing rules they all deep strike together. Unless you get the reserve reroll warlord trait or have some other way of ensuring they all come in, you might not get the alpha strike you need to protect the squads that do make it in - Can the interceptor squad get a special weapon? You have very few guys in the army so you want the ones that are in there to be as punchy as possible. Direwolf fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 18:16
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PeterWeller posted:Yeah, add me as a fourth. I don't particularly like the proliferation of data slates and other digital rules supplements. But the rules are a solid evolution of 6E's, Maelstrom missions are really fun, and the hardbound codices are generally pretty good. I'm by no means a longtime player (I started right at the tail end of 5th, about a month before 6th was announced) but this is pretty much how I feel too.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:46
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I also really like 7th. I think that pretty much all the changes made from 6th were good and worthwhile. In particular the new psychic phase. I like the fact that there's no guarantee that you'll be able to cast a particular power successfully. Sure, invisibility is amazing but will it be successful when you need it most?
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Sep 2, 2014 18:58
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Naramyth and I were talking during our game and we agreed that maelstrom is great for pick up games and beerhammer, but bad in campaigns and tournaments.
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Sep 2, 2014 19:06
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Direwolf posted:- not very shooty. 3 psycannons, 1 heavy psycannon, 3 plasma guns, 3 plasma cannons. The plasma's not bad but it's on very squishy targets, and you can't fire all 3 plasma cannons out the rhino at the same time. This is basically the issue with the new GK codex..not very shooty. I can give the intercepters a psycannon, but it's salvo 2/4 now, so it's not going to be very well utilized. Maybe I should just drop all those Inq shenanigans with the plasma/jokaero squad and get another DreadKnight :-/
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Sep 2, 2014 19:29
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Master Twig posted:Naramyth and I were talking during our game and we agreed that maelstrom is great for pick up games and beerhammer, but bad in campaigns and tournaments. I played a tournament recently that combined eternal war missions with modified maelstrom objectives. It was really great. Each player would generate two maelstrom objectives at the start of the game, could immediately replace any objective that was impossible and would reroll any duplicates and would generate a new objective the turn after they'd scored or discarded one and like normal you could only discard 1 objective per turn. Any objective that was worth d3 points was changed to be worth 2 points. Each maelstrom objective could be scored by each player only once. In the event that a mission had fewer than six on table objectives points you would re roll any irrelevent results. At the end of the game you'd add your points from you maelstom, secondary and mission objectives together. You'd try and grab those maelstom table objectives quickly for a single VP but then have to hold onto it till the end game for the extra 3. It was a good balance. Here's the modified maelstrom table they used 
Cataphract fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 19:47
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Maelstrom also heavily heavily favours fast moving troops. I've been down by 8 points before on the very first turn and I hadn't done anything. That's a huge huge problem.I really do believe there should be no scoring on the first player turn and no first blood in the game. It's such a huge disadvantage because , Okay I just moved 5 Fast Skimmers onto all objectives.
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Sep 2, 2014 19:56
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Hollismason posted:Maelstrom also heavily heavily favours fast moving troops. I've been down by 8 points before on the very first turn and I hadn't done anything. That's a huge huge problem.I really do believe there should be no scoring on the first player turn and no first blood in the game. as opposed to 6th where they'd hide skimmers and jetbikes out of sight or off the table and zoom them into position in the final turn at least this way they need to expose themselves to take the position.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:05
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Both are bad design. Despite GWs poo poo rule writing, I like 7th and 6th. I had the most fun with hams in 6th edition and 7th is pretty much the same thing.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:08
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Hollismason posted:Maelstrom also heavily heavily favours fast moving troops. I've been down by 8 points before on the very first turn and I hadn't done anything. That's a huge huge problem.I really do believe there should be no scoring on the first player turn and no first blood in the game. This is true, but it points back to what I said yesterday about Maelstrom missions causing you to rethink the way you build your army. It encourages slow hordes to add fast elements and shooting forces to include CC elements and so on. You want to bring an army that can conceivably score any and all objectives you can because a turn without turning in cards is basically a turn wasted.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:14
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PeterWeller posted:This is true, but it points back to what I said yesterday about Maelstrom missions causing you to rethink the way you build your army. It encourages slow hordes to add fast elements and shooting forces to include CC elements and so on. You want to bring an army that can conceivably score any and all objectives you can because a turn without turning in cards is basically a turn wasted. That would be fair if the objectives also made fast armies want to include slow horde elements, but they don't. They just encourage movement towards fast armies.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:46
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I did a dangerous thing and I started playing around in Battlescribe with the new Grey Knights list. Then I went to see prices online. The Vanguard box is $260CAN, has $323 worth of models in it, and can be found at my friendly online retailer for $195. Then I thought of the 40+ infantry and six tanks I still have to paint for my Guard army. ONE ARMY AT A TIME.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:06
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I quite enjoyed the missions at Nova, which were refined versions of the Mission Catalog for 7th edition. They implement asynchronous objectives, kinda like the Maelstrom missions, but more thought out.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:20
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Direwolf posted:That would be fair if the objectives also made fast armies want to include slow horde elements, but they don't. They just encourage movement towards fast armies. But they do. Big hordes of troops with ObSec will foil those fast elements once in position.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:26
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Not unless that have some anti tank they'll get tankshocked the gently caress out of.
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Sep 2, 2014 21:50
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Squifferific posted:I did a dangerous thing and I started playing around in Battlescribe with the new Grey Knights list. Then I went to see prices online. The Vanguard box is $260CAN, has $323 worth of models in it, and can be found at my friendly online retailer for $195. You can use the grey knights kit to get good at airbrushing, which will make everything go faster. You should probably buy the box and an airbrush setup too.
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Sep 2, 2014 22:29
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PeterWeller posted:But they do. Big hordes of troops with ObSec will foil those fast elements once in position. I guess I look at it compared to the game without the objective cards - in the base game with objectives that's definitely true, but the changing nature of objective cards (and the fact that you can claim them immediately, prior to the other player reacting) means that there's a definite advantage to being able to move from objective to objective. The slow army has the same advantage if either player draws the cards they're sitting on, but the speedy player has an advantage if they're sitting on the objective OR if no one is sitting on it, do you see what I mean? I still like them conceptually, but I just have seen them play out in a really dumb way whenever I've played with them. Anecdotally I've never seen them really add to anything.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:16
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Direwolf posted:I guess I look at it compared to the game without the objective cards - in the base game with objectives that's definitely true, but the changing nature of objective cards (and the fact that you can claim them immediately, prior to the other player reacting) means that there's a definite advantage to being able to move from objective to objective. The slow army has the same advantage if either player draws the cards they're sitting on, but the speedy player has an advantage if they're sitting on the objective OR if no one is sitting on it, do you see what I mean? I totally get you, but consider the following: you don't just score points by holding objectives, board control and area denial are still a part of the objective control game, and fast scoring units had a similar advantage in earlier editions with the late game objective rush. Additionally, the changes to scoring mean a lot more factions have access to fast scoring units. I know it's just an anecdote, but in a recent game against my buddy's orks, I wasn't really able to use my DE's mobility advantage to score multiple points. He camped out big mobs on half the objectives, so to score them, I needed to use my mobility to concentrate enough force to push him off one at a time. On the other hand, my scoring fast skimmers were key to my big lead in our last game, but they were aided by 4 previous turns of hot dice shooting and a very lucky draw on turn 5. And one last thing, as factions get their unique decks, we'll see objectives become less important as the faction specific cards replace the Capture & Control cards.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:47
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panascope posted:You can use the grey knights kit to get good at airbrushing, which will make everything go faster. You should probably buy the box and an airbrush setup too. Nooooooo. My Visa is already gently weeping. Direwolf posted:I guess I look at it compared to the game without the objective cards - in the base game with objectives that's definitely true, but the changing nature of objective cards (and the fact that you can claim them immediately, prior to the other player reacting) means that there's a definite advantage to being able to move from objective to objective. The slow army has the same advantage if either player draws the cards they're sitting on, but the speedy player has an advantage if they're sitting on the objective OR if no one is sitting on it, do you see what I mean? The advantage given to speedier units really opens up the game though. Static gunlines can only really hope to claim or contest the objectives closest to them, while a faster army now can actually do something with their speed instead of rushing to their deaths more effectively. It also then promotes more mixed forces, so each army has a mix of armour, fast units, line troops, etc, which was kind of the point of the original force org chart in the first place. Within the context of a single game, they do add another random element to an already random game. You can get shafted by the cards just as easily as rolling poor dice, which sucks when each game takes a few hours each. In that respect, they can be a pain in the rear end and could stand to be better balanced. Some of the recent tournament missions seem to be addressing this in different ways. But on the flip side, I've found the card missions to be much more entertaining than the standard ones from 6E. And they give close combat armies a definite leg up, since they'll be more likely to be charging across the table and grabbing objectives, and also causing a shooty army to chose between hunkering down or moving towards the big nasty gribblies.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:01
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PeterWeller posted:And one last thing, as factions get their unique decks, we'll see objectives become less important as the faction specific cards replace the Capture & Control cards. My group is holding off on adopting maelstrom missions until this happens. We're all new players, we're having tons of fun with eternal war, and I keep on hearing horror stories about blowouts, which really aren't our thing. We like the concept, we're just waiting for a better time to pick it up. Once there are Tau/Space Marine/Chaos-specific decks I'm sure we'll get on board.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:10
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Hollismason posted:Not unless that have some anti tank they'll get tankshocked the gently caress out of. You can't tank shock moving flat out in the shooting phase, only the movement phase... which means your vehicle is only ever able to travel 12" max and still tank shock... and, if the tank doesn't have obj sec, it needs to tank shock in such a way that the troops are no longer within 3" of the objective in any direction. Then, your tank is stuck next to a big squad of troops who may very well have krak grenades or power fists or something.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:48
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Sulecrist posted:My group is holding off on adopting maelstrom missions until this happens. We're all new players, we're having tons of fun with eternal war, and I keep on hearing horror stories about blowouts, which really aren't our thing. We like the concept, we're just waiting for a better time to pick it up. Once there are Tau/Space Marine/Chaos-specific decks I'm sure we'll get on board. I think that is a bit extreme. You're gonna be waiting for a long time probably. And it leads to as many tight games as it does blowouts. The random nature swings both ways. Sometimes it keeps a "losing" army in the game. In one game, I absolutely destroyed my opponent, but he still scraped out a win with some lucky draws. E: I don't mean to sound antagonistic. I'm just saying I think you guys should go ahead and give it a shot. It has me making a lot of cool different lists. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 01:56
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PeterWeller posted:I think that is a bit extreme. You're gonna be waiting for a long time probably. And it leads to as many tight games as it does blowouts. The random nature swings both ways. Sometimes it keeps a "losing" army in the game. In one game, I absolutely destroyed my opponent, but he still scraped out a win with some lucky draws. I think it sounds like a really cool idea and maybe we won't wait that long, but my group is three editions behind as far as rules go, we don't play very often (I average a game every two weeks and most of the players are more like once every 4-6 weeks) and we're still ramping up points-wise. Add to it that we're playing a lot of Zone Mortalis, which has its own set of rules to learn, and there's just too many moving parts at the minute. It's not really about perceived weaknesses of current maelstrom mission objectives, it's about us--updated maelstrom cards is just a good far-off landmark we can point to and say "okay, by the time that happens, we'll be ready to make the most of it." It's been more than five years since I've played 1000+ points. Let me figure that out first 
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Sep 3, 2014 03:36
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Moola posted:Whoa, Carl is happy with a GW product... I just got done talking about in Episode 108 how I hate the look of Crisis Suits - so ... 
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Sep 3, 2014 03:44
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6th and 7th are bad but I have had fun playing them. I would have had even more fun playing them if they were designed better. None of the Maelstrom of War games have felt very fun for me, primarily due to how the mission cards played out. It never felt like anything I was doing really mattered, just where I happened to be or whether I happened to not draw a card that did something irrelevant.
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Sep 3, 2014 03:55
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I played 7th for the first time this summer. It was alright, though mostly because I play with very cool, laid-back people. I wish some units had abilities that interact with cards (say, having Scouts of some HQs force the enemy to reveal a random card of his each turn). and it still irks me just how much work it takes to get most CC units into the fray with anything resembling effectiveness.
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Sep 3, 2014 04:45
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Sulecrist posted:I think it sounds like a really cool idea and maybe we won't wait that long, but my group is three editions behind as far as rules go, we don't play very often (I average a game every two weeks and most of the players are more like once every 4-6 weeks) and we're still ramping up points-wise. Add to it that we're playing a lot of Zone Mortalis, which has its own set of rules to learn, and there's just too many moving parts at the minute. It's not really about perceived weaknesses of current maelstrom mission objectives, it's about us--updated maelstrom cards is just a good far-off landmark we can point to and say "okay, by the time that happens, we'll be ready to make the most of it." Ahh, I get you. Do you have the FW Zone Mortalis tiles, or do you use something else, and if so, what? I'd like to play it some, but I don't know what terrain to use.
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Sep 3, 2014 06:02
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I played three games of 40k with my dad this weekend, and they were pretty fun. We did the little campaign thing I posted about a while back, with me winning 2/3 games. I didn't really take pictures or write anything up about it, but we had a good time. But holy goddamn, buildings are deathtraps. I hit a bastion with a few combi-meltas and killed almost the entire Grey Hunter squad inside of it. Maybe they changed that in 7th, but in 6th that's all there is to it. I'll get 7th eventually when another campaign set or something comes out with models I have more interest in. I figure Stormclaw isn't going to be the only one.
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Sep 3, 2014 06:02
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I really like the idea of maelstrom missions, but the execution leaves me pretty  There really aren't many mechanics in play that mitigate death spirals and the cards are entirely random. I liked 6th because your games were always really close until the very end. With maelstrom this is much less likely. I think you can house rule a happy medium, but you know, for $80 you'd expect their design team to do better.
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Sep 3, 2014 06:16
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