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Neruz posted:I loved driving the Mako with its insane physics, I spent hours ramping it off various mountains. Where we're going, we won't need roads. 
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Sep 2, 2014 19:54
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Geostomp posted:The combat would still blow. Especially after every other enemy unlocks Immunity and refuses to die unless you hose them for several seconds after they fall down. Well yeah, thats why you beeline for spectre gear. And also play Vanguard. Burst damage > Sustain, MOBA math yo.
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Sep 2, 2014 19:54
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I will just say that discussions about "daddy issues" and how "I think Kai Leng is a funny character because he's a huge goon" are what got me in to this LP and why I continued on even though I was put off by your "you people are stupid for liking these characters you have spent countless hours listening to and becoming space bros with". What I am saying is give us more of these focused lectures that are about the game and less about the community because that's a rabbit hole that everyone understands will lead to a bad place for everyone involved. Regarding Kai Leng, when he first showed up my reaction was "who's this dummy? Miranda's gone and this dweeb is the best you've got TIM?" and then when he actually showed up on the Citadel I was sitting there going "we just got cutscene punked by some mall ninja, what the gently caress is this poo poo Bioware?". Needless to say I took great pleasure in finally seeing him die more because I was just tired of him running away like a little bitch and Shepard never actually doing anything to stop him because plot, or some other dumb reason. Can someone who knows more actually shed light on him, was he a writer's baby or something?
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Sep 2, 2014 20:18
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Aces High posted:I will just say that discussions about "daddy issues" and how "I think Kai Leng is a funny character because he's a huge goon" are what got me in to this LP and why I continued on even though I was put off by your "you people are stupid for liking these characters you have spent countless hours listening to and becoming space bros with". What I am saying is give us more of these focused lectures that are about the game and less about the community because that's a rabbit hole that everyone understands will lead to a bad place for everyone involved. In summary some of us would appreciate it if you would stop touching the poop Lt. Danger.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:23
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Aces High posted:Regarding Kai Leng, when he first showed up my reaction was "who's this dummy? Miranda's gone and this dweeb is the best you've got TIM?" and then when he actually showed up on the Citadel I was sitting there going "we just got cutscene punked by some mall ninja, what the gently caress is this poo poo Bioware?". Needless to say I took great pleasure in finally seeing him die more because I was just tired of him running away like a little bitch and Shepard never actually doing anything to stop him because plot, or some other dumb reason. Can someone who knows more actually shed light on him, was he a writer's baby or something? The answer to that question is partially "when did you start hating him"? I didn't think his character was that obnoxious during Cerberus Coup. I think his next appearance is when the hatred really started for reasons we'll get into then.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:31
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monster on a stick posted:The answer to that question is partially "when did you start hating him"? I didn't think his character was that obnoxious during Cerberus Coup. I think his next appearance is when the hatred really started for reasons we'll get into then. I got tired of him during the coup because I wasn't allowed to fight him. I was only allowed to watch as he kept foiling me via cutscenes. His next appearance cements the fact that he is only "cutscene powerful".
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Sep 2, 2014 21:27
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Lt. Danger, I think if Mass Effect were like, a mini-series or a comic or some other format your position would be a much easier sell rather than toeing Poe's law with every word you utter. Your criticism seems to reject two very important aspects of video games that other formats have, but to a much lesser degree. Keep in mind, the Mass Effect series has been a series of AAA games and has sold between 8.5 and 10 million copies worldwide. That is an absolutely massive audience by any standards and 7 million of the sales in the lower figure are from JUST ME1 and 2 sales up to 2011 (yeah it's just a token effort at research, dwi). Assuming the average price per unit is $30, which is surely an underestimate, then that's a total gross of 255-300 million dollars. The series is obviously a cash cow coming out of the second and into the third game. That setup brings me to my first point. ME3 is a game designed to move units. One could argue that ME2 was as well what with the majority of game play changes made from 1 to 2 being refined in 3. The fan service romance options reinforce this position. My point is, the story is absolutely secondary to the ability of the game to make money in a AAA title. It is haphazardly thrown together in a way that is semi-coherent and will keep people coming back to the saga, you can see this in numerous other AAA titles, and even other bioware titles like dragon age and neverwinter nights. If the story doesn't make sense that's fine, still got ya dollas. It is my opinion that gameplay is what sells a game, and story is frame in which the gameplay is viewed. The framing is secondary to that which is being framed. My second point is one you rarely ever touch on and don't seem to think too much about, metagaming. Min/Maxing your stats, keeping NPCs alive to maximize content/dollar, save scumming, .ini edits to increase FOV for better situational awareness, etc. These are all realities for anyone that plays video games (on PC only for some of the more in depth methods). The story takes a back seat to maximizing content and minimizing difficulty. The ultimate effect is that the story takes a back seat to gameplay in video-games. It's not the major selling like in other forms of media and that should be taken into account when deconstructing it and I feel that you are failing in this respect by holding the game to the same standard as literature. pee pee doo doo video games aren't art
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Sep 2, 2014 21:31
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Neruz posted:In summary some of us would appreciate it if you would stop touching the poop Lt. Danger. I think a certain amount of fan discussion is warranted given how-self referential Mass Effect 3 is. Just think about how much stuff in the game is Bioware reacting to something in the fandom. We've got Tali's sweat, the Joker/EDI romance, the Gabby/Kenneth romance, jokes about Shepard's dancing, Kaiden admitting that people think he's boring and quiet, the entire Citadel DLC and the extended ending. Bioware touched the poop first, basically. The Mass Effect dev team was very much aware of what their fandom was saying and they adjusted the design of ME3 accordingly. I really don't think we can just ignore the influence that the fans have had on the series. Setherrock fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 22:23
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I did have one question though regarding something in the video before this that always bugged me. Why COULDN'T history record the guy behind what happened on that planet, or rather, why couldn't Krogan and Salarian both get credit? Wouldn't that solve a whole lot of problems for both of their races? I mean, I know why Wreav wouldn't want to give any credit whatsoever beyond to himself, but why would Wrex say the same thing? Especially when conflicting data can easily be obtained from human or salarian records in the future, presumably. Not to mention the whole "lack of almost any krogan scientists proper" thing. Krogan egos aren't so fragile that they'd absolutely always have to know they were alone in fixing their own problems. Sometimes people need help, and having that as part of your history might do a lot to fix the "help" from the uplifting. Showing you can actually trust people for once instead of being constantly infused with paranoia like many krogan are.
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Sep 2, 2014 22:34
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evilmiera posted:I did have one question though regarding something in the video before this that always bugged me. Why COULDN'T history record the guy behind what happened on that planet, or rather, why couldn't Krogan and Salarian both get credit? Wouldn't that solve a whole lot of problems for both of their races? I mean, I know why Wreav wouldn't want to give any credit whatsoever beyond to himself, but why would Wrex say the same thing? Especially when conflicting data can easily be obtained from human or salarian records in the future, presumably. Not to mention the whole "lack of almost any krogan scientists proper" thing. Krogan egos aren't so fragile that they'd absolutely always have to know they were alone in fixing their own problems. Sometimes people need help, and having that as part of your history might do a lot to fix the "help" from the uplifting. Showing you can actually trust people for once instead of being constantly infused with paranoia like many krogan are. You see, the Krogan represent a troubled youth from a perfect home that was shattered by alcoholism. Once they were 'uplifted' they became violent and moody, often The Salarians are a metaphor for that alcoholism and Shepard is their new dad that promises everything will get better now but gently caress you you're not my real dad. The subtext is my own daddy issues. E: it's daddy issues all the way down
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Sep 2, 2014 22:58
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CPFortest posted:By the way, Lt. Danger. I'm interested in, if you haven't talked about it before, your thoughts on the Tuchanka arc alternate ending, where Mordin/Padok live and the genophage isn't cured. It's a tough one because it's not so neat a resolution as curing the genophage and doesn't have the emotional punch of shooting Mordin either, so the arc just sort of peters out. In a sense it's almost like a 'secret' ending that is only unlocked through specific, non-intuitive circumstances that many players won't have, which is a design choice I understand (because it's cool to have that sort of player input/reward) but don't like (because it often ends up going off message - mainly thinking of Rannoch here). Either way, though, it 'resolves' the genophage - just in favour of the salarians/creators/parents rather than against them. Again, hypotheticals are bad, but I wonder how the Tuchanka resolution mission might have gone if the game had pitted Wrex against Mordin as opposite sides of the dilemma. You'd lose the redemptive arc and some strength of argument for curing the genophage, but you'd have a sympathetic face for the opposition and sabotaging the cure might feel less like the token evil option in a typical Bioware decision - plus it'd give the player the opportunity to maybe be the one to convince Mordin what he did was wrong, which might be better than having it happen off-screen. But who knows? Random Number posted:Lt. Danger, I think if Mass Effect were like, a mini-series or a comic or some other format your position would be a much easier sell rather than toeing Poe's law with every word you utter. Your criticism seems to reject two very important aspects of video games that other formats have, but to a much lesser degree. Could you give me an example of what you mean? I don't really see the relevance of what you're saying and I'm not sure what it would add. evilmiera posted:I did have one question though regarding something in the video before this that always bugged me. Why COULDN'T history record the guy behind what happened on that planet, or rather, why couldn't Krogan and Salarian both get credit? Wouldn't that solve a whole lot of problems for both of their races? I mean, I know why Wreav wouldn't want to give any credit whatsoever beyond to himself, but why would Wrex say the same thing? Especially when conflicting data can easily be obtained from human or salarian records in the future, presumably. Not to mention the whole "lack of almost any krogan scientists proper" thing. Krogan egos aren't so fragile that they'd absolutely always have to know they were alone in fixing their own problems. Sometimes people need help, and having that as part of your history might do a lot to fix the "help" from the uplifting. Showing you can actually trust people for once instead of being constantly infused with paranoia like many krogan are. I think krogan unity is new and minor warlords like Wreav/Jurgal are always looking to knock the top clan chief off his perch. The salarians are symbolic of the genophage and any involvement might be enough to tarnish the Urdnot throne. But more importantly it illustrates how the division between salarian and krogan - parent and child - is irreconcilable. Hudson thinks that this conflict is an inevitability and Mass Effect 3 is all about how we find a way to end this conflict, as expressed in the genophage, Reapers et al. Part of that involves not getting it right the first time - even though the genophage cure is game-changing for the krogan, Shepard is still operating within the 'rules' of the conflict, still abiding by the premise that you have to choose either the parent or child to succeed. It's not that the salarians are evil, or the krogan are. It's the situation that pits them in opposition that is the true evil.
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Sep 2, 2014 23:16
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Another thing you've overlooked is that in many ways, the concept of Cerberus is the "child" of the plot narrative. In this episode, they attempt to "murder" their "father" by invading the central hub of the entire galaxy and setting about assassinating the President. This is almost tangibly the point in the game where the plot seems to deconstruct itself into a largely meaningless series of events. I said earlier that the "daddy issues" theme of ME2 was likely unintentional and a consequence of needing to write backstories for these characters that would allow them a way to create an emotionally meaningful challenge for Shepard to overcome (contrast this to Garrus' uniquely boring mission where you say boring things to a man and then he gets shot), and I stand by this. It's very easy to ascribe purpose to something after the fact (see: Jesus' crucifixion), but I don't get the sense from ME2 that it was a game made where they had a clear idea of what they wanted to do in ME3. With Kai Leng, though, he's just bad. Palpably bad. I agree with the sense that he's not supposed to be cool, he's supposed to be written as a ridiculous rear end in a top hat, but if you wanted to play it for comedy, have Shepard walk up and declare, "Kai Leng, this is not acceptable" and then shoot him in the foot. The way it's actually done is instead the continued battering of player agency. "Hey, see this loving idiot here? The guy who thinks he's going to defeat a team of crack soldiers and professional assassins with loving Hanzo steel? It turns out he's much better and smarter than you because you're actually Tommy loving Westphall and your special power is not putting your socks on inside out. Feel free to fight through a ten-minute-long segment where you kill waves of his buddies in order to get to a cutscene where it's demonstrated that you're actually a cretin who can't shoot for poo poo." FullLeatherJacket fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 23:24
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Neruz posted:In summary some of us would appreciate it if you would stop touching the poop Lt. Danger. Counterpoint, this is by far my favorite part. Comparing characters to archetypes and games to literature; ok, sure. That's nice. Drilling down on the relationship between Bioware, their fans, and the fans with the game? Pretty great. I got my  just from the idea that wanting to keep all characters alive is not only stupid, but by enabling it, Bioware hamstrings their ability to tell an interesting story.It kind of crystallized something about the series for me. I *loved* getting Tali killed in the 3rd game when it was part of the plot. I *hated* getting her killed at the end of ME2 when I took Legion with me into the cargo hold at the end. In the one case, it's because she represents a point of view who's time has come. In the other it's because Bioware has *no* idea how to kill someone without player intervention, so they arbitrarily decide that, since you like A more than B, you must not mind if we kill B. I'm curious if they've had a similar treatment in any other game to the ending of ME2, because once I looked online and found out how the deaths worked, I was kind of annoyed. To summarize, in case you don't know: In the ME2 ending, there are 3 active and 2 passive 'decision' points. Equipment you purchased for your ship and loyalty missions gate whether certain crew members will die as a result of passing through these situations. The active decisions make a fair amount of sense. There are basically 3 challenges, for the first one you need someone who's a tough soldier, for the second you need a technical person, and for the 3rd you want a powerful psychic. The first time through, I misinterpreted the first requirement as 'go back to the ship' and used Mordin because he seems prudent and smart. Apparently I was supposed to send Grunt or Garrus. But then there are a couple passive decisions that have to do with who you pick to join you. I think one of them is with the Miranda/Jack kerfuffle, where if you pick one the other one dies by Deus Ex Machina. But the one that got me was the Tali/Legion thing. For the record, I *love* Legion specifically, and characters like legion as well. He's like a Johnny 5; intimidating, but displays elements of confusion that narrate the idea that synthetic life doesn't necessarily have it any easier than biological life (at least at first). Tali I think is, you know, interesting as a fish out of water, and a method to introduce her Battlestar Galactica/AIDS-infected race, but she does very little of interest to me. Her space suit looks cool, I guess. So when they had disagreements, I always used my paragon/renegade speech cheating to force them to come to amicable terms. I like the pretty colors on those dialog options. I can't help myself. But anyway, then at the end you have a confrontation in your spaceship basement with a giant floating eye. So I took Brock Samson and Legion with me, because that's just what makes sense to do, and while I'm down there, my reactor core pours salt on Tali and she shrivels up. Not because I didn't shield it well--I had that quest/dialog thing figured out. It's because the game thinks I like legion better than her. And I do. But, perversely, despite the fact that the bioware games are basically *about* catering to the players, and that's part of why I play them, I still don't want to feel like the game is changing the story to cater to me. When I considered how unreasonable that made me as a person, it sent me down a path of calling into question literally all the games I played and how much they humored me and what, if anything, I got from them as a result. Failure states, in general, are a conceit of games that doesn't necessarily make any sense. Lt.D already touched on this, so I won't sperg any more than I have already, but I *really* like thinking about players and how they approach the ME series and Bioware with this sense of entitlement, and how Bioware writing has grown like sickly tissue around a tumor trying to correct for this relationship. I'd MUCH rather talk about anything that has to do with the community, how the community works/reacts, and what the assumptions are, than the structure of the assumed story. Honestly, I'm still listening to the parts about the story structure only because that's how I frame it all in my mind; it's not that I think comparing the characters in ME to jesus is cool on it's own; it's because of how that story is the quintessence of crowd pleasing in some ways (and the whys of how the concept of salvation works as a vehicle for being easy to digest by a wide audience) and how that relates to trying to please the sinners who play ME games that turns my crank. So just get right in there with both arms like the paleontologist with the sick triceratops in jurassic park.
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Sep 2, 2014 23:31
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FullLeatherJacket posted:I said earlier that the "daddy issues" theme of ME2 was likely unintentional and a consequence of needing to write backstories for these characters that would allow them a way to create an emotionally meaningful challenge for Shepard to overcome (contrast this to Garrus' uniquely boring mission where you say boring things to a man and then he gets shot), and I stand by this. It's very easy to ascribe purpose to something after the fact (see: Jesus' crucifixion), but I don't get the sense from ME2 that it was a game made where they had a clear idea of what they wanted to do in ME3. I'd argue Garrus' arc in ME2 did have daddy issues of a sort - in ME1, when you talk with him, he mentions that his father was pro-C-Sec/anti-Spectre, and wanted things to be very much done in the line with the law which Garrus disagrees with. He instead becomes a vigilante in ME2, taking the law into his own hands and rebelling against his father. Dealing with the member of his squad who got everyone else killed was in essence Garrus dealing with a child who turned against his parent (if you think of Garrus as not just being leader of his squad, but a father to his men of sorts.) TheCosmicMuffet posted:But anyway, then at the end you have a confrontation in your spaceship basement with a giant floating eye. So I took Brock Samson and Legion with me, because that's just what makes sense to do, and while I'm down there, my reactor core pours salt on Tali and she shrivels up. Not because I didn't shield it well--I had that quest/dialog thing figured out. It's because the game thinks I like legion better than her. If you reconciled the Tali/Legion fight using the power of Paragon/Renegade points, and upgraded the shielding, Tali should survive regardless of who you liked most. She should at least have survived the approach to the Collector base.
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Sep 2, 2014 23:49
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monster on a stick posted:If you reconciled the Tali/Legion fight using the power of Paragon/Renegade points, and upgraded the shielding, Tali should survive regardless of who you liked most. She should at least have survived the approach to the Collector base. Interesting. To be honest, I often forget or incorrectly reconstruct what my choices were in a Bioware game. So it's possible I told Tali she was dumb because that is my firm belief. fake edit: Actually let me go look that up, because I could swear... more faked edit: Hummm. Yep. I must have unloyaltied Tali by taking Legion's side. Welp. Still. The whole concoction that they're trying to implement character deaths in response to perceiving that the player doesn't like a character point stands. After all, I don't choose to kill her. She dies because Shepherd took someone else's side in an argument, and that made a reactor overload. Either way, the idea that Bioware was desperately trying to find ways of killing characters that wouldn't make someone reload and try again is fascinating to me. Even as someone who's part of the problem.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:42
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And IIRC, Mordin is actually one of the better options to send back to the ship. Edit: The reactor overloaded because you didn't upgrade the shielding. I don't think it had anything to do with loyalty.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:43
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:Interesting. To be honest, I often forget or incorrectly reconstruct what my choices were in a Bioware game. So it's possible I told Tali she was dumb because that is my firm belief. With most of those fights it's possible to regain the loyalty after a mission or two by continually talking to them and going "hey, look, it wasn't that bad, chill the gently caress out." But the Legion-Tali argument happens right before the suicide mission at the earliest, so if you don't paragade it out then you've got to go visit some planets and let members of your crew get turned into slushies.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:46
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Nihilarian posted:And IIRC, Mordin is actually one of the better options to send back to the ship. Mordin dies in every playthrough I have unless I send him back to the ship with the crew. It doesn't matter if I did everything for him he will always die after the Reaper fight. I'm certain he's bugged.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:48
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Mordin dies in every playthrough I have unless I send him back to the ship with the crew. It doesn't matter if I did everything for him he will always die after the Reaper fight. I'm certain he's bugged. The part where your teammates hold the line while Shepard goes ahead works by adding up a hidden 'hold the line' variable each squadmate present has and then dividing by the number of people there. If it's below a certain amount the weaker/unloyal squaddies start dying. Loyal members have higher values than unloyal. Mordin, Jack and Kasumi have some of the lowest while Garrus, Grunt and Zaeed have the highest. It means that Mordin, especially if he's unloyal or the GGZ power team isn't present, is very likely to bite it. If you send (loyal) Mordin back to the ship or take him to the boss he'll be safe. Conversely, even an unloyal Zaeed can hold the line by himself.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:58
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Mordin dies in every playthrough I have unless I send him back to the ship with the crew. It doesn't matter if I did everything for him he will always die after the Reaper fight. I'm certain he's bugged. Well he tells you that early on. gently caress holding the line, do your job and get the gently caress out.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:03
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Mazerunner posted:Conversely, even an unloyal Zaeed can hold the line by himself.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:03
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Well, at least now I know the hidden logic behind my own play - I chose the side of the "offspring" every single time (although I'm not sure how to interpret the end I guess). Out with the old, in with the new.
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Sep 3, 2014 02:07
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Comment on the child and the dream sequence: another suspension/illusion-breaking part of it is that he "runs" in a way that looks like you described a human child running to an alien, and the alien failed horribly at animating it. The derp-face he has as he's consumed by flames only makes him hit the uncanny valley even harder. That's not the face of terror or even disappointment, that's the face of a kid trying to decide if they want hot dogs or hamburgers for dinner. As for Kai Leng, he would be more funny if Bioware's reputation didn't precede it. Honestly, the reactions more or less everyone but his creators had is either vitriolically hating him or laughing at him relentlessly. And he only gets worse/"better" the more you know about him/see the lengths people went through to make him seem "badass." Watch out, he'll take your Lucky Charms! On the point of Religion, if you want to look a bit more into messianic archetypes to avoid the Christ allegory that every westerner and their pet dogs know, I'd suggest taking a look at the Saoshyant of Zoroastrianism and the Maitreya of Buddhism. Their involvement with their respective religions' eschatology might have give you a point to draw a connection with Mass Effect 3's supposedly intended apocalyptic tone. Or you could go with the ever-popular Ragnarok angle. After all, even the greatest of gods and heroes must die in the final battle against their foes. Since you like to try to follow the victory-through-sacrifice theme, you could probably draw connections there. 
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Sep 3, 2014 04:36
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Flytrap posted:Well he tells you that early on. gently caress holding the line, do your job and get the gently caress out. You, sir, are a walking cloaca.
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Sep 3, 2014 05:50
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Lt. Danger posted:
But that doesn't really adress my issue though. My problem wasn't with the conflict resolution but with the fact that Wrex or Wreav outright says the galaxy can never know a Salarian helped save the Krogans. Why? Wreav I get in that scenario, he's a selfish prick, but what's stopping people from reporting on what went down there? What about leaks? Pretty sure most secrets can't stay secrets in that universe, at least so far. And Wrex has no reason at all not to tell people the truth, it is just a line that gets shoehorned in no matter what the situation is.
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Sep 3, 2014 06:48
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FullLeatherJacket posted:Another thing you've overlooked is that in many ways, the concept of Cerberus is the "child" of the plot narrative. In this episode, they attempt to "murder" their "father" by invading the central hub of the entire galaxy and setting about assassinating the President. I think Cerberus has more to do with the concept of sin - I don't think they really have a parent-child relationship with anything in the game, but do hold up a dark mirror to the Alliance/Council. The parallels between ME1 and ME2 are deliberate. I also think daddy issues simply crops up too often for it not to be a deliberate choice. Bioware is capable of writing other issues for their characters - compare the casts of BG2 or Dragon Age - so I think it's significant that Bioware chose daddy issues for the majority of the cast of Mass Effect - half explicitly so, half more metaphorically. I also think it's significant that two of the characters present perspectives on the genophage, two of the characters present perspectives on the geth-quarian war and three of the characters present perspectives on Cerberus... the three plot arcs of ME3.
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Sep 3, 2014 08:00
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Original sin of creating synthetics *fart* you're the Shepard *urp* Illusive Man tempts you in visions *hrrnk* every battlefield is Gethsemane, every hero is Christ *plop*
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Sep 3, 2014 |
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Sep 3, 2014 09:12
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Any story written by a white person has at least a 50/50 chance of working as an allegory for Christ.
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Sep 3, 2014 09:34
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please dont troll
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Sep 3, 2014 10:18
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Everything is a Christ allegory. Unless you're saying you haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and saviour... are you?
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Sep 3, 2014 10:20
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Everything except the New Testament, which is actually an allegory for class struggle in the British Raj.
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Sep 3, 2014 10:44
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Lt. Danger posted:please dont troll Okay. Sorry. To post something on-topic, I think that even with Wrex curing the genophage is a serious long-term problem. The Krogan population problem can't be solved by one leader. That said, there's nothing to tell us that this war will be over in a few months (other than metaknowledge that the game won't cover decades or centuries) and the fast-breeding Krogan may be the only source of cannon fodder for the meatgrinder. With the knowledge that the game will end in a few months with the Reapers' defeat, the Krogan will inevitably return to aggression within an Asari lifetime without comprehensive population controls that you know they would never accept. So basically, I agree with the Salarian Dalatrass, but only as far as the player knows the Reapers will soon be defeated. As Shepard, unleashing the Krogan without reservation makes perfect sense as the Reapers are the realest existential threat ever encountered. What happens a thousand years later is irrelevant as it looks like everyone will be dead within a decade. I agree that Mordin singing his song was ridiculous. He's about to die for what he believes in, and Gilbert&Sullivan is what's going through his mind in those moments? But Tuchanka was great; both in the environment and what you get to do within it. Tuchanka finally gets a distinct look. Kalross is probably the best "fightan reaperz" section in the game.
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Sep 3, 2014 11:51
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Mordin dies in every playthrough I have unless I send him back to the ship with the crew. It doesn't matter if I did everything for him he will always die after the Reaper fight. I'm certain he's bugged.
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Sep 3, 2014 12:03
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Arglebargle III posted:Okay. Sorry. I mean maybe I'm stupid, but I always figured that the Salarians are smart enough to cook up another Genophage if they need to. I mean Mordin literally did it a few years ago. I'm not sure what the Genophage cure itself entails and it infuriated me that the game was ambiguous on it because it would genuinely have informed my opinion on the matter. Give the Krogans a chance, if they get uppity, smack them back down again. Broadly I couldn't have cared less about Wrex or Eve, I think Eve dies on my playthrough anyway. I just figured the Krogan War Assets would be more valuable than the Salarian ones.
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Sep 3, 2014 12:37
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Remember that the Krogan don't actually need to breed at a hilariously excessive rate, iirc Wrex actually talks about implementing birth control after the war is over because the Krogan rate of reproduction if left unattended is simply unsustainable. I don't remember the details but I do remember it was brought up at least once as a "Hey lets not do that again eh?" moment.
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Sep 3, 2014 13:03
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Arglebargle III posted:Okay. Sorry. Sorry man, I was just kidding. I'm happy for you to troll this thread as much as you like. 
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Sep 3, 2014 13:53
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I've never heard Mordin sing his song. I have no idea what triggers it, but I heard his dramatic, appropriate speech in both of my playthroughs - and I even heard the song in ME2 for my second one! I don't know why it's even a possibility. Mordin's noble sacrifice is a lot better without a catchy tune to back it up.
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Sep 3, 2014 14:12
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Mordin's song was one of the most praised parts of ME3 when it released I also rather enjoy it, it's a nice moment of Mordin having fun for a bit before he dives back into the horrific shitpile that is the things he did in the past. Helps make him feel like a person rather than a character.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:29
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Neruz posted:Remember that the Krogan don't actually need to breed at a hilariously excessive rate, iirc Wrex actually talks about implementing birth control after the war is over because the Krogan rate of reproduction if left unattended is simply unsustainable. I don't remember the details but I do remember it was brought up at least once as a "Hey lets not do that again eh?" moment. Has anyone read the Mote in God's Eye by Niven and Pournelle? It's a sci-fi book about an alien race that I think matches the Krogan pretty well. (spoilers) Basically the aliens (the Moties) biologically must have a child every year or so, or they die. They also have a caste system where each caste is basically the epitome of that function, like their Engineers can learn the functions of unknown technology, disassemble and then reassemble better than before, within moments of first seeing the tech and their warriors are like, just the shiz. So obviously they have incredible population pressures resulting in periodic civilization collapses, but the thing is any attempt to curtail population growth and/or the destructiveness of that collapse (birth control, selective breeding, genociding the doctor caste, genociding the warriors) is never taken up by all groups, meaning that while one group has sustainable pop. growth, the others outnumber them by 10 to 1, have crazy good soldiers, etc. so the 'responsible' group gets wiped out and they can never get every group to agree to limits and more importantly, follow through. In the book, thanks to a quirk in space geography and the setting's technology, the Moties have been confined to their solar system while humanity has spread in a galactic empire. At first contact, humanity has the advantage- they can draw on huge amounts of resources and man power and probably could wipe out the Moties, but they don't really want to do that if they don't have to, but if the Moties were to leave their solar system they'd spread and out compete humanity within a few generations so they can't let them leave either. In the end they just put up a blockade and bottle up the Moties to deal with them later. In the sequel a)the blockade is no longer workable, the Moties WILL get out and b)humanity has developed a workable form of birth control, so skipping most of it, the result is that the humans will give the birth control to whatever Moties will willingly take it, and also forcefully give it to any groups that don't want it on pain of being blasted by lasers and torpedoes. I think the ties to Mass Effect and the Krogan/the Genophage are pretty obvious, although the birth control for the Moties is way less horrific than the Genophage, and they aren't facing an existential galactic threat so not quite the same circumstances but anyway. Much like the Moties, there's no guarantee that all the Krogan are going to follow Wrex/Wreave/Eve or that they'll be around forever, so any group that has now been cured of the Genophage but doesn't take up breeding controls will swiftly outgrow the rest, prompting outside intervention and bringing things back to stage one. Another point is that the Salarians had population control problems as well, but were able to come up with limits on their own before discovering the Mass Relays and heading out into the galaxy. Thing is the Krogan never got that chance thanks to the uplifting- they were given all the freedom and resources of the galaxy without the self-control needed to be able to share it. Their limits had to be imposed upon them. So if you think of the Salarians as the parental/creator figures to the Krogan, what's that whole situation say?
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Sep 3, 2014 16:00
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Yorkshire Tea posted:I mean maybe I'm stupid, but I always figured that the Salarians are smart enough to cook up another Genophage if they need to. I mean Mordin literally did it a few years ago. I'm not sure what the Genophage cure itself entails and it infuriated me that the game was ambiguous on it because it would genuinely have informed my opinion on the matter. I always saw the genophage as a krogan preservation project, really. If you can deploy a sterility plague throughout an entire species you could presumably deploy a killer plague just as easily. Or just carpet bomb their homeworld with those 20-kiloton cannonballs. I'm sure I remember Mordin saying something along those lines in ME2 but last time I played I didn't see it so maybe I misremembered something.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:00
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