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Honestly they deserve it the screaming little shits.
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Sep 3, 2014 09:13
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Arglebargle III posted:Honestly they deserve it the screaming little shits. This post looks really weird out of context if you just clicked on 'last page'.
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Sep 3, 2014 10:10
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At least for the Roman Plebs, I remember reading that infant mortality was so high that they'd try avoid getting too attached to a baby. Might explain how they could be so casual about exposure. You could argue that they didn't get full 'personhood' until they had lived long enough to have a good chance of surviving. Meanwhile slavers/charity served as the unloaded gun in the firing squad.
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Sep 3, 2014 12:05
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Arglebargle III posted:Honestly they deserve it the screaming little shits. Why can't you be more like.... uhh... hang on I'll just do a quick Google search for Romans who loved children..... why can't you be more like Emperor Tiberius! 
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Sep 3, 2014 13:16
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You know, for a culture that seems to have been a lot more frank and open about sex, everything Suetonius writes sounds like it was made up by a disturbed teenage boy with a porno magazine.
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Sep 3, 2014 13:26
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Strategic Tea posted:At least for the Roman Plebs, I remember reading that infant mortality was so high that they'd try avoid getting too attached to a baby. Might explain how they could be so casual about exposure. You could argue that they didn't get full 'personhood' until they had lived long enough to have a good chance of surviving. Meanwhile slavers/charity served as the unloaded gun in the firing squad. I seriously think that this propably made these people somewhat messed up in the head. I mean people who lose their children go through unbelievable sorrow and guilt. I can't imagine how it must been if you have to through this regularly, even yearly.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:32
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Well that and the lead infused water.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:35
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Intentionally keeping your distance and avoiding emotional attachment probably helps a little, and people were generally more used to death because they saw it more. But for sure, it was hard on people. There are historians who argue that some of why the pre-modern world seems to have so many hosed up things like witchcraft trials and generally more violent cultures and such is because everyone was psychologically traumatized. On the other hand, people are probably more resilient to that than you'd think from growing up in our comfortable world--that horrible pre-modern condition is what we evolved in and lived for 99% of our history, after all. Modern people just don't experience it so we don't develop the same sort of mental fortitude they did. Sorry about not posting much, I am starting a job as a history teacher finally   so I am pretty busy for a while.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:38
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Congratulations, Grand Fromage!
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Sep 3, 2014 15:42
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Fish of hemp posted:I seriously think that this propably made these people somewhat messed up in the head. I mean people who lose their children go through unbelievable sorrow and guilt. I can't imagine how it must been if you have to through this regularly, even yearly. People get more of the sorrow and guilt thing because it's uncommon these days. Up until the 1920's or thereabouts, infant mortality was a shitload higher everywhere in the world. It was simply how things were.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:42
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Grand Fromage posted:Sorry about not posting much, I am starting a job as a history teacher finally Still in Korea or back in the states?
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Sep 3, 2014 15:42
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Still in Korea or back in the states? China, actually. Mo' money mo' noodles.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:43
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Teaching history in China? you must be a party member.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:48
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Grand Fromage posted:Intentionally keeping your distance and avoiding emotional attachment probably helps a little, and people were generally more used to death because they saw it more. But for sure, it was hard on people. There are historians who argue that some of why the pre-modern world seems to have so many hosed up things like witchcraft trials and generally more violent cultures and such is because everyone was psychologically traumatized. On the other hand, people are probably more resilient to that than you'd think from growing up in our comfortable world--that horrible pre-modern condition is what we evolved in and lived for 99% of our history, after all. Modern people just don't experience it so we don't develop the same sort of mental fortitude they did. I've often wondered this about sexual abuse. We know that children that are abused sexually turn into damaged adults. In eras where there were no controls on it or perhaps even conceptions of it, I expect it would have been pretty widespread, to the extent that a huge proportion (by modern standards) of adults would have been abused as children and would go on to abuse. More prone to anger, depression, violence, promiscuity, substance abuse, risky behaviours in general. Is it possible to not be traumatized by sexual abuse if it's 'normal'?
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Sep 3, 2014 15:55
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The "lead in the water" thing is probably way over blown. See http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/leadpoisoning.html for a decent online summary of the issue.Fish of hemp posted:I seriously think that this propably made these people somewhat messed up in the head. I mean people who lose their children go through unbelievable sorrow and guilt. I can't imagine how it must been if you have to through this regularly, even yearly. While I'm sure people back then loved their kids too, you're trying to apply modern emotional and cultural values to an ancient civilization. Even today some people react differently to that kind of loss. Some grieve and get over an infant's death in a few months, for others its a defining event in their lives from which they never truly recover. Think of it this way: if losing an infant was automatically some kind of unspeakably traumatic event that would cause serious mental derangement than how the gently caress did we, as a species, survive the 99.9% of our history where 50%+ infant/early childhood mortality was completely normal? If our minds were so fragile that this kind of loss would inevitably be emotionally crippling we probably never would have climbed down out of the trees, much less become the dominant species on this planet. Even if we were that way at some point in the distant past you would almost have to assume that being able to cope and deal with sadness and loss would be a major evolutionary advantage, almost guaranteeing that we would, as a species, develop some way of not falling apart every time someone we cared for died.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:58
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I know it was a joke.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:08
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Exioce posted:anger, depression, violence, promiscuity, substance abuse, risky behaviours in general Man, that's an good description of Roman society.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:10
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The best comparison would probably how people raised in longstanding violent tribal or criminal environments adapt, though I don't really know anything about modern studies on that. Warzones too, though a lot of them would be on a much shorter timeframe and involve more conscious aspirations to Western-style legitimacy.Breaking Bad posted:For what it's worth, getting the poo poo kicked out of you, not to say you get used to it, but you do kinda get used to it.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:15
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How did mail work in the ancient world? If I'm a mom in Roma and I want to send my son some socks and underwear, and he's posted way up in Brittania, how do I get him his undies?
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Sep 3, 2014 16:19
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gizmojumpjet posted:How did mail work in the ancient world? If I'm a mom in Roma and I want to send my son some socks and underwear, and he's posted way up in Brittania, how do I get him his undies? I really hope someone knows about this, because I don't at all and I just realized what a big hole in my knowledge it is. I know some form of mail existed in the empire but no idea how. The only thing I've encountered was the cursus publicus, which was a courier system for government needs.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:21
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gizmojumpjet posted:How did mail work in the ancient world? If I'm a mom in Roma and I want to send my son some socks and underwear, and he's posted way up in Brittania, how do I get him his undies? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursus_publicus
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Sep 3, 2014 16:25
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Wasn't there a preserved letter by a Roman mom who sent her son socks and stuff and asked him if he's getting along with the other guys in the barracks? I think it was posted in this thread.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:30
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gizmojumpjet posted:How did mail work in the ancient world? If I'm a mom in Roma and I want to send my son some socks and underwear, and he's posted way up in Brittania, how do I get him his undies? Dunno, but they did it. Vindolanda tablet 346 posted:"... I have sent (?) you ... pairs of socks from Sattua, two pairs of sandals and two pairs of underpants, two pairs of sandals ... Greet ...ndes, Elpis, Iu..., ...enus, Tetricus and all your messmates with whom I pray that you live in the greatest good fortune." E: Oh, look at that.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:36
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Dunno, but they did it. I would imagine it was just horse drawn carts that tagged along with other official caravans or something. Once a week the supply shipment to Britannia leaves or something. Logistics in the Roman world must have been immensely complex and fascinating. Also I love that little note since it shows just how little people have changed.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:54
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I strongly suspect gizmojumpjet was aware of that tablet, otherwise the example he chose for his question is a little freaky.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:57
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my dad posted:Man, that's an good description of Roman society. Tho it's worth noting that Romans thought of getting crunk as hella unmanly and the same with promiscuous behavior.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:58
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Kemper Boyd posted:Tho it's worth noting that Romans thought of getting crunk as hella unmanly and the same with promiscuous behavior. Those were ideals essentially no one but cato the younger upheld, and even he loved the sauce.
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Sep 3, 2014 17:05
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Halloween Jack posted:You know, for a culture that seems to have been a lot more frank and open about sex, everything Suetonius writes sounds like it was made up by a disturbed teenage boy with a porno magazine. Suetonius: the original goon?
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Sep 3, 2014 17:25
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Halloween Jack posted:You know, for a culture that seems to have been a lot more frank and open about sex, everything Suetonius writes sounds like it was made up by a disturbed teenage boy with a porno magazine. Romans were pretty neurotic about sexuality, they were kind of prudish to be honest. I mean sure some of them had crazy gay orgies but everyone does in history and many of those stories we have of those we can only take at dubious value as to authenticity (ex. Suetonius). Christianity was able to make big head ways in Roman society because it was able to co-opt a lot of those hard-assed and prudish old Roman virtues.
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Sep 3, 2014 17:28
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blowfish posted:Suetonius: the original goon?
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Sep 3, 2014 18:19
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Not to mention his love for Glorious
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Sep 3, 2014 18:26
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What was Roman slang like?
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Sep 3, 2014 18:37
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Dwarf posted:What was Roman slang like? Like Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, Romanian, Neapolitan, Sardinian etc.
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Sep 3, 2014 18:39
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Grand Fromage posted:I really hope someone knows about this, because I don't at all and I just realized what a big hole in my knowledge it is. I know some form of mail existed in the empire but no idea how. The only thing I've encountered was the cursus publicus, which was a courier system for government needs. Well there's the cursus publicus of course, but I've always assumed that the Roman mum sending socks and sandals was tapping into the regimental supply system, just like Americans did in the Civil War-era and Brits did in the post-Napoleonic Age. They'd talk to the local legionary officer, or conversely there'd be a call for donations, and then the mail would be on its way - and while it might not get into their son's hands, it probably would. I could be wrong of course, but it seems the logical course to me.
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Sep 3, 2014 18:43
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Kaal posted:Well there's the cursus publicus of course, but I've always assumed that the Roman mum sending socks and sandals was tapping into the regimental supply system, just like Americans did in the Civil War-era and Brits did in the post-Napoleonic Age. They'd talk to the local legionary officer, or conversely there'd be a call for donations, and then the mail would be on its way - and while it might not get into their son's hands, it probably would. I could be wrong of course, but it seems the logical course to me. My totally unscholarly theory is that, for non-official business, merchant caravans or what-have-you filled in for this. "Oh, you're headed in the general direction of Brittania? Can you foward this along to my son?" The parcel might be labeled something line "Ad: Gaius Farticus, Vallum Aelium, castrum calcitrare clunem, Brittania." Through being handed off between various caravans, and a dash of luck, it might get to where it was intended to go. I'd never heard of the cursus publicus so thanks for that!
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Sep 3, 2014 20:12
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Ras Het posted:Like Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, Romanian, Neapolitan, Sardinian etc. I meant more like slang words within Latin (what I really mean is how many synonyms for "dick" were there).
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Sep 3, 2014 20:26
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Strategic Tea posted:Not to mention his love for Glorious A Greekaboo then 
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Sep 3, 2014 21:31
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Leather underwear  Sure is cold over here in Britannia! Least I got these socks for my sands
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Sep 3, 2014 22:08
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Those were ideals essentially no one but cato the younger upheld, and even he loved the sauce. Didn't he make a point of drinking the shittiest wine possible because while he loved getting drunk he thought it would be morally wrong to enjoy the taste while doing so? Cato was... kinda hosed up.
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Sep 3, 2014 23:52
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The original goon (box) drinker.
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Sep 4, 2014 03:09
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