terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > terrible programmers: my god, it's full of chars

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fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

# ? Sep 4, 2014 12:51

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# ? May 16, 2024 08:24

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

AlsoD posted:

and the third is for people who are showing off it lets you do more clever and concise things

and also people just beginning because do notation is some dumb poo poo until you've written x >>= _ -> y a few dozen times

# ? Sep 4, 2014 13:41

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

im the monoid in the category of endofunctors

# ? Sep 4, 2014 14:24

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

Bloody posted:

hey lets argue about tabs vs spaces

its not even an argument, tabs are the only answer. but indenting is for readability, not control.

# ? Sep 4, 2014 14:34

Squinty Applebottom: Jan 1, 2013

Shaggar posted:

its not even an argument, tabs are the only answer. but indenting is for readability, not control.

# ? Sep 4, 2014 15:00

kitten emergency: Jan 13, 2008; get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

monad always makes me think of mounds for some reason

also shaggar was right

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:18

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

same except gonads

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:23

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

Progressive JPEG posted:

same except gonads

not another gonad tutorial!!!

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:24

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

it takes a couple weeks to understand them, everyone has to put in the time

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:25

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

the theory might look scary but just play around a bit to get a feel for them and you'll see it's really easy

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:26

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

uncurable mlady posted:

monad always makes me think of mounds for some reason

also shaggar was right

i prefer almond joy

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:26

Arcsech: Aug 5, 2008

Shaggar posted:

its not even an argument, tabs are the only answer. but indenting is for readability, not control.

tabs are for indentation, spaces are for alignment. but thats too complicated for most people so welp

even if indentation is for readability your compiler/interpreter should tell you to gently caress off if your code isnt well-formatted, and every language should have a gofmt-type utility and require its use

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:27

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

AlsoD posted:

it's really easy

these are bad words don't use them

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:44

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

how to learn a monad
- don't look at wikipedia
- don't look at do notation
- don't look at any monad that isn't the maybe monad
- do go write some error-handling code w the maybe monad
- okay you're past the hump you can look after yourself now

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:49

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

coffeetable posted:

these are bad words don't use them

c'mon, it was a joke about gonads

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:49

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

AlsoD posted:

c'mon, it was a joke about gonads

oh wow yeah i totally missed that

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:50

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

coffeetable posted:

oh wow yeah i totally missed that

i do completely agree with your point though

# ? Sep 4, 2014 17:53

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

coffeetable posted:

how to learn a monad
- don't look at wikipedia
- don't look at do notation
- don't look at any monad that isn't the maybe monad
- do go write some error-handling code w the maybe monad
- okay you're past the hump you can look after yourself now

but this isnt how i learned

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:20

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

fart simpson posted:

but this isnt how i learned

then it's completely loving wrong and you need to write a blog post about how wrong it is asap!!!

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:23

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

i'm pretty sure nobody would have trouble with monads if they had a friendlier name and they didn't know there was a connection to category theory

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:26

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

that's the opening sentence of my upcoming blog post

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:26

coffeetable: Feb 5, 2006; TELL ME AGAIN HOW GREAT BRITAIN WOULD BE IF IT WAS RULED BY THE MERCILESS JACKBOOT OF PRINCE CHARLES

YES I DO TALK TO PLANTS ACTUALLY

fart simpson posted:

but this isnt how i learned

howd you learn

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:32

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

fart simpson posted:

i'm pretty sure nobody would have trouble with monads if they had a friendlier name and they didn't know there was a connection to category theory

monads are really simple, but the problem is not just the category theory, the problem is haskell. because of laziness you are forced to use monads to sequence computations, and that's a pretty basic thing to do in any real program, so haskell users are forced to grapple with this concept very early on, probably before they understand its context in haskell

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:39

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

coffeetable posted:

howd you learn

i read a bunch of monad tutorials which didn't really help and then i started actually writing haskell and kept getting type errors in the io monad and kept trying stuff to shut up the compiler and then one day it all suddenly made sense

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:46

fart simpson: Jul 2, 2005; DEATH TO AMERICA

actually that was a lie. i learned what monoids and functors are, because those are both really simple. then i read that monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors and it was obvious

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:57

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

fart simpson posted:

actually that was a lie. i learned what monoids and functors are, because those are both really simple. then i read that monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors and it was obvious

# ? Sep 4, 2014 19:59

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

fart simpson posted:

i'm pretty sure nobody would have trouble with monads if they had a friendlier name and they didn't know there was a connection to category theory

# ? Sep 4, 2014 20:23

gonadic io: Feb 16, 2011; >>=

see: C#'s Aggregate (fold), Select (map) and how there's a bunch of different functions that are essentially Bind but for Asyncs, Nullables, IEnumerables etc etc

# ? Sep 4, 2014 20:26

qntm: Jun 17, 2009

fart simpson posted:

i'm pretty sure nobody would have trouble with monads if they had a friendlier name and they didn't know there was a connection to category theory

this but regular expressions and finite state automata

# ? Sep 4, 2014 20:47

bobbilljim: May 29, 2013; this christmas feels like the very first christmas to me

fart simpson posted:

actually that was a lie. i learned what gonoids and fucktors are, because those are both really simple. then i read that gonads are just gonoids in the category of inthe endofucktors and it was obvious

# ? Sep 5, 2014 01:26

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

I have a phd in math and I've been doing it for money for a bunch of years now and whenever anybody starts talking about category theory and all that stuff I just tune them out for a while

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:44

Stringent: Dec 22, 2004; image text goes here

fritz posted:

I have a phd in math and I've been doing it for money for a bunch of years now and whenever anybody starts talking about category theory and all that stuff I just tune them out for a while

I wish more interviews would do this. Have the interviewers start talking out of their asses and if the candidate engages or appears to be listening show them the door.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 02:47

Forums Terrorist: Dec 8, 2011

Stringent posted:

I wish more interviews would do this. Have the interviewers start talking out of their asses and if the candidate engages or appears to be listening show them the door.

you'd get a lot of false positives from people who've learned that disrespecting authority is a bad career move

# ? Sep 5, 2014 07:13

JewKiller 3000: Nov 28, 2006; by Lowtax

i had a friend in grad school who always talked in category theory language and i understood maybe 1/3 of what he said. he's now a professor at a top 10 department

# ? Sep 5, 2014 08:11

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Forums Terrorist posted:

you'd get a lot of false positives from people who've learned that disrespecting authority is a bad career move

your disruptive startup doesn't want those fools anyway. never going to build a world-changing pizza delivery service but with volunteers and mongodb if you go round respecting authority all the time.

# ? Sep 5, 2014 09:09

Workaday Wizard: Oct 23, 2009; by Pragmatica

what does <filtering> even do in pom.xml??

I am reading http://maven.apache.org/pom.html and they write stuff like

quote:

filtering: is true or false, denoting if filtering is to be enabled for this resource. Note, that filter *.properties files do not have to be defined for filtering to occur - resources can also use properties that are by default defined in the POM (such as \${project.version}), passed into the command line using the �-D� flag (for example, �-Dname=value�) or are explicitly defined by the properties element. Filter files were covered above.

alright! filtering decides if filtering is enabled!!

what does filtering do??

i am probably dumb and missed a critical doc section, but the docs are not making me happy

# ? Sep 6, 2014 21:31

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

resource filtering causes maven to replace variables in the files its filtering with their value as specified in your pom. by default you filter the contents of /src/main/resources which is where configs go.

so if you had mysettings.properties in /src/main/resources/ and it contained a.setting.the.program.uses=${blahblah.whatever} and then in your pom.xml you had a property named blahblah.whatever with a value of fartz then when maven builds your project it would replace the ${blahblah.whatever} with fartz resulting in a.setting.the.program.uses=fartz

Its one way to store your configuration info in the build definition instead of storing it in your code/configs. You can also specify/override them at build time, essentially allowing you to provide all the config values at build time which is handy for automated deployment. Most of the time (really, all of it) your filtering will be done in your deployment packages and not in libraries.

you can also add other folders to be filtered and restrict filtering by filename/type. so like if you wanted to filter your actual java code you could do that too.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 21:40

Workaday Wizard: Oct 23, 2009; by Pragmatica

thanks shaggar

let's see if i understand correctly:
if i have

XML code:

<resource>
    <directory>environments/${environment}</directory>
    <filtering>true</filtering>
</resource>

maven will do the following:
1) scan environments/${environment} for *.properties files
2) get the key value pairs from the *.properties files
3) copy the content of environments/${environment} as resources, replacing the keys with values

is that correct?

also do the *.properties files get copied too or are they ignored after maven reads them?

# ? Sep 6, 2014 21:56

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

nah, lets back up a bit.

In your maven project the default folders are like this:
src/main/java -- ur java source files go here
src/main/resources -- non-java stuff goes here including things like configs for logging or beans or w/e

theres also the tests folders but im not gonna talk bout those right now
src/test/java -- ur tests go here
src/test/resources - non-java stuff for your tests go here.

when it builds a project it compiles the contents of the main/java folder and stores it in the output folder (target/classes by default for java files/resources). Then it goes through your resource folders, filters them if filtering is enabled, and then copies them to the output folder.

The general end result is that the stuff you have in src/main/java and src/main/resources goes to target/classes compiled and/or filtered as appropriate.

src/main/resources is copied and filtered by default without you configuring it in the pom.xml. Also, all files are copied and filtered by default, not just *.properties. If you want to add additional folders, you add <resource> items to your pom.xml and enable filtering on that folder if you want. You can also filter your source files if you really want to. So like if you want to add additional files to target/classes based on environment, you can do like you have in that config.

So back to filtering. Filtering happens during the build when resource files are copied from the source to the output folder. Filtering alters the contents of the resource file, maven doesn't use them as configuration in the build. resource files are resources for your application, not for the build so maven doesn't care about them at all (beyond doing the copying/filtering that you configure in the pom).

Lets say you have /src/main/resources/database.properties with the content

code:

database.hostname=${db.hostname}
database.username=${db.username}
database.password=$(db.password}

Somewhere in your java code or maybe in your spring config your application reads database.properties from the classpath and uses it to configure its database connection.
In your pom.xml lets say you have this

XML code:

<properties>
	<db.hostname>db.mydomain.local</db.hostname>
	<db.username>fart</db.username>
	<db.password>boner</db.password>
</properties>

When maven builds the project it will read everything in /src/main/resources and find database.properties. It will then get a list of all the properties it has and replace any instance of ${keyname} with the property value. then it writes that to the output folder. So you'll have a file target/classes/database.properties with the following content

code:

database.hostname=db.mydomain.local
database.username=fart
database.password=boner

so when your java program reads the file it will have valid information.

# ? Sep 6, 2014 23:56

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# ? May 16, 2024 08:24

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

I probably confused you with my environments thing so lets talk about build profiles.

Build profiles are a way to add custom build configurations that are only used under certain conditions. An example condition is packaging a project for different environments. Most of the config is going to be the same in every environment but you might want to change things like connection strings based on where you're going to deploy it.

So heres a basic profile config with 2 profiles.

XML code:

<profiles>
	<profile>
		<id>test</id>
		<activation>
			<activeByDefault>false</activeByDefault>
		</activation>
	</profile>
	<profile>
		<id>production</id>
		<activation>
			<activeByDefault>false</activeByDefault>
		</activation>
	</profile>
</profiles>

active by default false means none of these profiles will be used unless we tell maven to activate them during the build process.

so now that we have these profiles, lets move the properties for the db config from the root of the pom, to the profiles

XML code:

<profiles>
	<profile>
		<id>test</id>
		<activation>
			<activeByDefault>false</activeByDefault>
		</activation>
		<properties>
		    <db.hostname>db.test.mydomain.local</db.hostname>
		    <db.username>testfart</db.username>
		    <db.password>testboner</db.password>
		</properties>
	</profile>
	<profile>
		<id>production</id>
		<activation>
			<activeByDefault>false</activeByDefault>
		</activation>
		<properties>
		    <db.hostname>db.mydomain.local</db.hostname>
		    <db.username>fart</db.username>
		    <db.password>boner</db.password>
		</properties>
	</profile>
</profiles>

To build it with a specific profile, add a -P Profilename to the command line or specify the profile name in the build in eclipse. there is a text box for it. When maven builds the project with a specified profile, it will load the properties from that profile and use them to filter database.properties. So depending on which profile we use, we get a package that has a db connection setup for Test or for Production.

I don't like to put my properties like that into the profiles. I think its gross, but its personal preference. What I do instead is something like this:

XML code:

...
<resource>
    <directory>environments/${environment}</directory>
    <filtering>true</filtering>
</resource>
...
<profiles>
	<profile>
		<id>test</id>
		<activation>
			<activeByDefault>false</activeByDefault>
		</activation>
		<properties>
		    <environment>test</environment>
		</properties>
	</profile>
	<profile>
		<id>production</id>
		<activation>
			<activeByDefault>false</activeByDefault>
		</activation>
		<properties>
		    <environment>production</environment>
		</properties>
	</profile>
</profiles>

Maven also filters the pom.xml so the directory that <directory>environments/${environment}</directory> points to will depend on which profile is active. if test is active it will treat environments/test the same as src/main/resources and copy the contents + filter them.

If you do it this way, then instead of relying on filtering you can have database.properties files in both environments/test and environments/production each with hardcoded configs that wont be filtered. In this mode you wouldn't have any properties in the pom.xml for the database config. When you do the build and specify a profile it will only copy the files from the environment folder for that profile.

there are ups and downs for both methods. for example if I have a logging config for test I might have additional logging configurations and files beyond what would be easily filterable so having separate files for test and prod makes sense. the downside is that if I make changes to a file in environments/test that I do need to be in production I have to make sure I make the changes myself. with filtering you would only have the one file in src/main/resources so its harder to make a mistake.

with filtering you can also specify properties outside the pom.xml entirely which allows you to do something like set the db connection information in the build system. this is probably the best way if you have a good build system setup. (most people don't)

# ? Sep 7, 2014 00:21

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