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Lawman 0 posted:Is he still boning that gymnast?  Which one? I've heard theres a ballerina recently.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:11
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My Imaginary GF posted:
Please fill me in on the latest gossip. 
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Sep 7, 2014 01:13
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Maarek posted:This thread is starting to get hilarious. From the 'I am glad that Russians are dying out' guy to the the calls to fight the Russian army to the last Ukrainian, I guess we now know exactly what you need to turn D&D into Freep. Blatant imperialist aggression and evidence of war crimes? Yes, just like Freep.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:14
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It's pretty disgusting how willing you guys are to throw away Ukrainian lives for your hate of Russia. Maybe think about what your proposing and how it would effect the actual people living there. Or even what happens if this war continues to escalate.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:15
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I foresee a pornographic mockumentary along the lines of Who's Nailin' Palin?, entitled Who's He Putin It Into? Now to find a leading man.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:15
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There are some times where goons manage to absolutely disgust me. For the love of god I hope you people are trolling. Finlander posted:Their only alternative seems to be genocide at the hands of the Russian forces, though. I wasn't aware Russia was committing genocide!
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Sep 7, 2014 01:16
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Gimmick Account posted:They cannot even bring themselves to call this a 'War' or an 'Invasion'. A DMZ is not an alternative to a 'war' or 'invasion', it means a Demilitzrized Zone. It's basically a no man's land, kinda like between North and South Koreas. I'd imagine if the USA did do this, it would be done in a way that doesn't directly say it's an Anti-Russia zone in response to Russian invasion (it would probably be presented as something like "We don't know who is east of here, if it's Russians or rebels or what, but whoever you guys are, we're gonna shoot the gently caress out of you if you go enter this zone") but establishing a DMZ is not mutually exclusive with calling Russia's actions an invasion.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:17
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axelord posted:It's pretty disgusting how willing you guys are to throw away Ukrainian lives for your hate of Russia. Maybe think about what your proposing and how it would effect the actual people living there. Sooooo, what do you propose the Ukrainians should do? Just roll over and let Russia slaughter their army and run away with their industrial regions and coastline? Seriously, if Russia plans to annex the areas mentioned earlier, Ukraine is going to end up being landlocked. I also worry what's going to happen to the non-russians living in those areas if Crimea is something to go by.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:17
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axelord posted:It's pretty disgusting how willing you guys are to throw away Ukrainian lives for your hate of Russia. Maybe think about what your proposing and how it would effect the actual people living there. I absolutely agree with you that it's disgusting to see people posting about making Ukraine into Russia's Vietnam. Not only is that hosed up for the Ukrainian people, it's also hosed up for the Russian soldiers who will die fighting something they probably don't agree with/wouldn't agree with if they knew what was actually happening. I'm all for loving Putin over for eternity, I'm not for violence just for the sake of violence.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:17
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Lawman 0 posted:Please fill me in on the latest gossip. I'm presenting a paper in a few months with a friend from Harvard's Ukranian Institute. I'll offer a raincheck on when I can get back to you, as long as you accept that it may be bias towards a Ukranian narrative. E: DrProsek posted:A DMZ is not an alternative to a 'war' or 'invasion', it means a Demilitzrized Zone. It's basically a no man's land, kinda like between North and South Koreas. I'd imagine if the USA did do this, it would be done in a way that doesn't directly say it's an Anti-Russia zone in response to Russian invasion (it would probably be presented as something like "We don't know who is east of here, if it's Russians or rebels or what, but whoever you guys are, we're gonna shoot the gently caress out of you if you go enter this zone") but establishing a DMZ is not mutually exclusive with calling Russia's actions an invasion. Yup. That's the plan for the Baltics where its requested, from what I've heard. And certainly kidnapping an interior minister makes it heard faster. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 01:18
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SirJohnnyMcDonald posted:There are some times where goons manage to absolutely disgust me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War hope this helps
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Sep 7, 2014 01:18
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Guess its time to call the exorcist. http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/06/us-ukraine-crisis-patriarch-putin-idUSKBN0H10F920140906 quote:Putin is under Satan's influence: leader of Kiev Orthodox Church
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Sep 7, 2014 01:19
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Ardennes posted:My point about Estonia is that shock therapy wasn't a solution for it either, the real turn about was in 2004 when Estonia joined the EU.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:19
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DrProsek posted:A DMZ is not an alternative to a 'war' or 'invasion', it means a Demilitzrized Zone. It's basically a no man's land, kinda like between North and South Koreas. I'd imagine if the USA did do this, it would be done in a way that doesn't directly say it's an Anti-Russia zone in response to Russian invasion (it would probably be presented as something like "We don't know who is east of here, if it's Russians or rebels or what, but whoever you guys are, we're gonna shoot the gently caress out of you if you go enter this zone") but establishing a DMZ is not mutually exclusive with calling Russia's actions an invasion. I know what a DMZ is, I just find the idea of NATO actually sending troops to fortify the east of Estonia against Russian aggression to be laughable, considering they aren't even willing to call a spade a spade in the current Ukrainian crisis. They're afraid of using mere WORDS, so don't expect any actual deeds from them.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:20
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Dusty Baker 2 posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War No not really Crowsbeak posted:It's pretty disgusting you want people to accept cultural genocide and imperialism. If you're not willing to cause untold human suffering and geopolitical catastrophes for the feelsies then you are for cultural genocide and imperialism! 
SirJohnnyMcDonald fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 01:20
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axelord posted:It's pretty disgusting how willing you guys are to throw away Ukrainian lives for your hate of Russia. Maybe think about what your proposing and how it would effect the actual people living there. It's pretty disgusting you want people to accept cultural genocide and imperialism.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:20
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Gimmick Account posted:I know what a DMZ is, I just find the idea of NATO actually sending troops to fortify the east of Estonia against Russian aggression to be laughable, considering they aren't even willing to call a spade a spade in the current Ukrainian crisis. If you call it an invasion, there are legal ramifications in NATO member-states. Its one option of many; you don't employ it until you want. E: To clarify, there is no fear in using words. Words are a weapon, to be used as necessary; they are not a tool of propaganda like in Russia.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:22
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Maarek posted:This thread is starting to get hilarious. From the 'I am glad that Russians are dying out' guy to the the calls to fight the Russian army to the last Ukrainian, I guess we now know exactly what you need to turn D&D into Freep. The new thread title was supposed to be "Watch LF posters turn into neocons before your eyes"
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Sep 7, 2014 01:28
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axelord posted:It's pretty disgusting how willing you guys are to throw away Ukrainian lives for your hate of Russia. Maybe think about what your proposing and how it would effect the actual people living there. Russia is already dong a great job at throwing away Ukrainian (and Russian) lives, and has been at it for months...all while blatantly lying to the rest of the world about being involved. Which was/is a good way to get others to hate it, by the way. But yes, the people who are upset about that and are calling for a strong response against Russia due to it's violent and illegal invasion of a neighboring country, are simply bloodthirsty savages who want to see more Ukrainian/Russian blood spilled just to spite Russia.  Hoping for the conflict to turn into a long and bloody guerrilla war like Vietnam/Afghanistan, like that one dude said, is hosed up, but it's not disgusting to want Ukrainians to fight back against Russia.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:28
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BBC reporting the shelling in Mariupol. At 1:05 they feature a rebel leader declaring that they won't be happy until they've reached the Romanian border and restored Novorossia.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:31
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So does the most likely outcome at this point seem to be Donetsk Oblast becoming a Transnistria/South Ossetia/Abkhazia style quasi-state?
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Sep 7, 2014 01:31
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Rah! posted:Hoping for the conflict to turn into a long and bloody guerrilla war like Vietnam/Afghanistan, like that one dude said, is hosed up, but it's not disgusting to want Ukrainians to fight back against Russia. But it's exactly the 'Vietnam/Afghanistan' and 'Four Chechnyas' schemes that people have been getting upset about. I think everyone here except for MightyPeon and the few other people on the Russian payroll really do wish the Ukrainians the best.  It's just that some posters tend to get carried away and lose touch with reality as they hammer out those grand plans in their heads, and in the end their solutions appear to many of us on the outside to be worse than the already bad issue that they are supposed to fix.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:36
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Lead out in cuffs posted:BBC reporting the shelling in Mariupol. At 1:05 they feature a rebel leader declaring that they won't be happy until they've reached the Romanian border and restored Novorossia. Yes, that is the Russian plan. NATO is responsing that its unacceptable, that sovreign nations deserve to be respected as sovreign, and that anyone who agrees should see these individuals for vetting and quality control assurance. Its pretty much a countdown until there is a West Ukraine/East Ukraine at this point, if Russia pushes on Kyiv. E: There is no 'fix' to Russian aggression other than to make it both as expensive as possible for Russia and to ensure that Putin understands its continued spread brings consequences that he won't be willing to accept.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:37
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Vladimir Putin posted:You can have a guerrilla war in an terrain. The most important thing is the willingness of the local people to fight without being artificially propped up by an external force. Actually, having an external force helps quite a lot - see North Vietnam during the Vietnam War, or the role played by Iran during portions of the USA's invasion of Iraq, or indeed the USA's support of muhajideen in Afghanistan.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:37
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Crowsbeak posted:It's pretty disgusting you want people to accept cultural genocide and imperialism. No I never said that, but I understand what an insurgency would mean for the actual people in Ukraine, Suffering and death. I guess you would feel better that Russians would be dying too? Again think about what you are proposing.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:38
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icantfindaname posted:So does the most likely outcome at this point seem to be Donetsk Oblast becoming a Transnistria/South Ossetia/Abkhazia style quasi-state? No, just plain old annexation, like in Crimea. Everything else is just a Russian smokescreen. Speaking of Crimea: I actually fully expect Putin to admit to his troops having been there all along, right after the last bullet is fired and the last Ukrainian soldier surrenders/falls.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:38
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axelord posted:No I never said that, but I understand what an insurgency would mean for the actual people in Ukraine, Suffering and death. I guess you would feel better that Russians would be dying too? Yes I guess I do want a occupying people to die if diplomacy will not force them out. How is that wrong?
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Sep 7, 2014 01:41
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icantfindaname posted:So does the most likely outcome at this point seem to be Donetsk Oblast becoming a Transnistria/South Ossetia/Abkhazia style quasi-state? Well, it would probably be the entire Donbass.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:43
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icantfindaname posted:The new thread title was supposed to be "Watch LF posters turn into neocons before your eyes" Everyone liked the other one instead, including me. 
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Sep 7, 2014 01:43
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icantfindaname posted:The new thread title was supposed to be "Watch LF posters turn into neocons before your eyes" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymXCkaklm8&t=1828s Neocons made this world, we all have to live in it.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:44
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Crowsbeak posted:Yes I guess I do want a occupying people to die if diplomacy will not force them out. How is that wrong? Because the power ratio between 'an occupying people' and 'an occupied people' is always so extremely slanted in favour of the occupier, that in any conceivable scenario, A LOT more of the occupied people are going to die for every occupying soldier killed. You'd be cutting off your nose to spite your face, basically.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:45
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Gimmick Account posted:Because the power ratio between 'an occupying people' and 'an occupied people' is always so extremely slanted in favour of the occupier, that in any conceivable scenario, A LOT more of the occupied people are going to die for every occupying soldier killed. The difference being, these occupied peoples have American support.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:47
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kalstrams, today I find myself really missing your massive update posts.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:49
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My Imaginary GF posted:The difference being, these occupied peoples have American support. I'm guessing this isn't a sarcastic post, right?
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Sep 7, 2014 01:49
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axelord posted:No I never said that, but I understand what an insurgency would mean for the actual people in Ukraine, Suffering and death. I guess you would feel better that Russians would be dying too? And I ask you again what you would propose. That Russia get the entire Ukrainian coastline and gently caress Ukraine and anyone who lives in the annexed areas? Seriously, I'm scared for anyone living there based on what the rebels have been doing and Russian history with occupied territories.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:50
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So you think the Palestinians should just peacefully protest what has happened to them? Should the Irish not have resisted British occupation. Should the Blacks of Namibia not lead a guerrilla campaign against South Africa?
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Sep 7, 2014 01:51
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Gimmick Account posted:I'm guessing this isn't a sarcastic post, right? I can't see what red title I have now, I'd presume my reputation for sarcasm is on par with Kissinger's.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:54
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Broken Cog posted:And I ask you again what you would propose. That Russia get the entire Ukrainian coastline and gently caress Ukraine and anyone who lives in the annexed areas? Pretty much, yeah. There are situations where no good outcomes exist - At this point, this seems to be one of them. Unless you were to quickly send soldiers from a first world country in there to achieve more favourable battlefield conditions for the Ukrainian army (and I don't think many people are seriously proposing that, considering what this could lead to, and how little Ukraine means to them, personally, in the end), there isn't really much you can do to influence the outcome of this war anymore. Sanctions - even if they had more teeth than the lukewarm, mostly-PR bullshit we have been seeing - will not have any short-term effects on the ground, and arming rebels won't, either. Ukraine is in such a strategically bad position right now that the dice have more or less already been cast.
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Sep 7, 2014 02:02
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If Russia seizes the Ukranian coastline, I think Turkey would be well within its moral rights to break the straits treaties and bar Russian sea traffic through their straits and their new canal (once it opens).
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Sep 7, 2014 02:03
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My Imaginary GF posted:Yup. That's the plan for the Baltics where its requested, from what I've heard. And certainly kidnapping an interior minister makes it heard faster. What? It was an officer of the security police, not a minister. Anyway, is there any source for DMZ plans for the Baltics?
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Sep 7, 2014 02:04
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