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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:That's pretty weird, since the art and flavor all make it pretty clear that Mindswipe, Utter End, and Sagu Mauler belong to Temur, Mardu, and Sultai respectively, despite not having any of their "main" colors. Maybe they just want them to be kind of ambiguous? I'd think a counterspell (Mindswipe) belongs to Jeskai as opposed to Temur, at least mechanically. I can't speak to the art or flavor text at all since I don't pay attention to that stuff, but nothing about the card itself says Temur to me.
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Sep 7, 2014 04:12
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I'd think a counterspell (Mindswipe) belongs to Jeskai as opposed to Temur, at least mechanically. I can't speak to the art or flavor text at all since I don't pay attention to that stuff, but nothing about the card itself says Temur to me. Except for the figure wearing what is obviously Temur garb?
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Sep 7, 2014 04:14
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bhsman posted:Except for the figure wearing what is obviously Temur garb? Like I said, I don't pay attention to the flavor of the art or non-rules-text. I was talking about the card itself.
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Sep 7, 2014 04:17
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Allstone posted:I think someone was saying that it's a card from one of the wedges that doesn't contain the wedge's primary colour. I'm pretty sure I took a quick look and seemed to check out. So, Icefeather Aven is a Temur card and contains G so it's watermarked, but Sagu Mauler is a Sultai card without black so no watermark?
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Sep 7, 2014 04:18
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Like I said, I don't pay attention to the flavor of the art or non-rules-text. I was talking about the card itself. 
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Sep 7, 2014 04:18
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How many are mockups vs real cards?
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Sep 7, 2014 04:20
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Froghammer posted:If you did, you'd know it was Temur Apparently Wizards doesn't agree, having not watermarked the card as such and all edit: unless the card is a mockup, as the above post reminds me
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Sep 7, 2014 04:20
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qbert posted:God that was so painful to watch. Even a bad player would've Boros Charm-ed before combat damage, simply to get an extra elemental token out of Young Pyro. The Burn player was terrible and also misplayed the last turns of his first game, which he also lost. Honestly, the line the burn player took would have reasonable odds of winning if this was just a casual FNM or whatever. Jund player activates Ooze end-of-turn because "oh there's a creature in the graveyard and I have open mana", and then misses that they can do it again in response to the Boros Charm and dies. Or just mistcutters for everything. If all you usually play is FNM, it's easy to get in the habit of making those mistakes a lot when you never get punished for them. Of course, then you have problems when you want to step it up a level and start facing opponents who won't randomly misplay to let you beat them.
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Sep 7, 2014 04:26
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En Fuego posted:How many are mockups vs real cards? Wizards' official card gallery shows the same inconsistency. Looking closer, Utter End features art of and a quote from the leader of Mardu, so that lends credence to the idea that it's based on the primary color.
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Sep 7, 2014 04:27
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Maro said the rules for watermarks were: 1) Three colored cards 2) Cards containing a clan mechanic 3) Intro packs share cards, and no Jeskai water marks should be in the Sultai deck, etc. So, a card without a watermark might have been shared between more than one intro pack?
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Sep 7, 2014 04:27
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En Fuego posted:How many are mockups vs real cards? MiddleEastBeast posted:Apparently Wizards doesn't agree, having not watermarked the card as such and all Nah http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ktk-cig-en
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Sep 7, 2014 04:28
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The "reveal a [color] card from your hand" morph cycle all have the watermark of the clan for which their color is primary, even though they don't have keywords. Maybe they're just tossing an appropriate watermark on every card that doesn't appear in multiple intro packs?
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Sep 7, 2014 04:32
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Like I said, I don't pay attention to the flavor of the art or non-rules-text. I was talking about the card itself. If all you are looking at is the card in an entirely objective fashion, your conclusion cannot be "Oh well this is actually a Jeskai card" or for any other clan. That's literally the antithesis of that evaluation. 
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Sep 7, 2014 04:33
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Lottery of Babylon posted:The "reveal a [color] card from your hand" morph cycle all have the watermark of the clan for which their color is primary, even though they don't have keywords. Maybe they're just tossing an appropriate watermark on every card that doesn't appear in multiple intro packs? If that's the case, then Utter End will be in two, I guess? Should keep the price down.
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Sep 7, 2014 04:35
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Here's his response without my paraphrasing: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/96551850533/how-is-it-decided-which-cards-get-the-clan-watermarks It seems like intro pack issues weren't the only reason to leave a card without a watermark. Some of them were on a case by case basis.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:05
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End of Life Guy posted:Here's his response without my paraphrasing: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/96551850533/how-is-it-decided-which-cards-get-the-clan-watermarks Thanks, this is a good answer to my query.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:08
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So basically, they didn't want to pin those cards to a specific clan and rather have them remain ambiguous so they could fit into multiple intro packs. Fair enough.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:09
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Ableist Kinkshamer posted:So basically, they didn't want to pin those cards to a specific clan and rather have them remain ambiguous so they could fit into multiple intro packs. Fair enough. And for some cards, the Creative team has input on it. Icefeather Aven is likely one of those.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:12
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bhsman posted:If all you are looking at is the card in an entirely objective fashion, your conclusion cannot be "Oh well this is actually a Jeskai card" or for any other clan. That's literally the antithesis of that evaluation. Huh? All I said was that of the two clans with UR in their color identity, Mindswipe feels mechanically closer to what other Jeskai cards do than what other Temur cards do.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:16
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Huh? All I said was that of the two clans with UR in their color identity, Mindswipe feels mechanically closer to what other Jeskai do than what other Temur cards do. What makes you say this, objectively?
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Sep 7, 2014 05:17
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Because it counters spells and all we've seen Temur do is beat people up thus far, probably. I'd be shocked if we didn't see something along the lines of Temur Counterspell 2U Instant Counter target spell unless its controller pays 2 Ferocious - If you control a creature with a power of 4 or greater, counter target spell unless its controller pays 4 instead.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:25
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Just got my judge foils  Entomb, Karador, Riku, Nekusar, Hanna and Feast + Famine 
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Sep 7, 2014 05:29
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It counters a spell AND beats them up. And while they can avoid the countering with mana, they still get the beating. For example, the bear was like 'growl' and the Temur guy was like 'I counter that unless you pay 2!' and then the bear was shocked with the results anyway. Shocked clean in half.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:30
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bhsman posted:What makes you say this, objectively? It counters a spell and burns them to a face. It's a control card. Jeskai is obviously a control-oriented clan that cares about non-creature spells, while all Temur cares about is putting down big creatures. I'm not even sure how this is remotely controversial based on what we've seen from the clan cards so far. MiddleEastBeast fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 05:32
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Temur's got a pretty clear shamanistic/elemental mastery element to them to represent the blue aspect of their wedge. A painful counterspell fits right in with them thematically.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:36
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It's definitely a different style of control from what we saw in RTR block. I hesitate to say aggro-control without seeing more of the picture, but the absence of a 4-CMC sweeper does probably mean the deck will have to drop a few creatures at least. It definitely looks like a control deck that needles you as it takes over the board and finishes with Crater's Claws or the like.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:39
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I'm not even sure how this is remotely controversial based on what we've seen from the clan cards so far. Also giving all your guys lifelink at the same time? Or flipping this up when you swing into the redzone with the khan? Does not quite come off as the theme here, from existing cards.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:45
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MiddleEastBeast posted:It counters a spell and burns them to a face. It's a control card. Jeskai is obviously a control-oriented clan that cares about non-creature spells, while all Temur cares about is putting down big creatures. I'm not even sure how this is remotely controversial based on what we've seen from the clan cards so far. A counterspell is actually suboptimal since it doesn't let you control the timing of your own prowess triggers.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:45
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MiddleEastBeast posted:It counters a spell and burns them to a face. It's a control card. Jeskai is obviously a control-oriented clan that cares about non-creature spells, while all Temur cares about is putting down big creatures. I'm not even sure how this is remotely controversial based on what we've seen from the clan cards so far. It's probably because Temur have already been labeled the 'midrange' clan in terms of design, and having a counterspell (that directly burns the opponent, a very RG thing) is also within their design. Would it surprise you to know that Temur also have UR in their colors? 
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Sep 7, 2014 05:57
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I think Jeskai is not a control clan, but a tempo clan. It'll probably use efficient creatures and bounce/burn/combat tricks to stay a turn ahead of the enemy, rather than keeping the board clean until turn 12 when they finally draw their one bomb. Hopefully the 1-win con, UW or Esper draw-go decks of RTR-THS will be less feasible, because it's a really unfun archetype to play against.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:12
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Mondrian posted:Hopefully the 1-win con, UW or Esper draw-go decks of RTR-THS will be less feasible, because it's a really unfun archetype to play against. Do we really need to post this again? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNV9jYLhSgI
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Sep 7, 2014 06:16
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MiddleEastBeast posted:It counters a spell and burns them to a face. It's a control card. Jeskai is obviously a control-oriented clan that cares about non-creature spells, while all Temur cares about is putting down big creatures. I'm not even sure how this is remotely controversial based on what we've seen from the clan cards so far. Jeskai doesn't seem very control-y to me. Jeskai seems "kick people in the face!" Their ability is a combat trick. All but two of the cards we've seen from them have revolved around combat. None of them have been burn.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:16
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Do we really need to post this again? I'm glad you did, because that was amazing.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:20
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Some Numbers posted:I'm glad you did, because that was amazing. I agree wholeheartedly.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:23
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Adder Moray posted:Jeskai doesn't seem very control-y to me. Jeskai seems "kick people in the face!" Their ability is a combat trick. All but two of the cards we've seen from them have revolved around combat. None of them have been burn. Yeah, but burn goes hand in hand with temp, so naturally it will be a raising phoenix kick of the sun's fire.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:23
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Jeskai is not a control clan, prowess is not a control mechanic. Prowess is about using combat tricks/removal to pump up your attacking creatures, not sitting back. Abzan and Sultai look to be the controling clans, Temur midrange, and Jezai/Mardu aggro, with Abzan the most controling and Mardu the most aggro. Edit: That video is the most beautiful thing I have seen
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Sep 7, 2014 06:25
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Ramos posted:Yeah, but burn goes hand in hand with temp, so naturally it will be a raising phoenix kick of the sun's fire. This is valid, I'm just saying that I disagree with the post I quoted because none of the cards we've seen that are definitely theirs have been burn and all but two (arguably one) have revolved around combat.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:28
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bhsman posted:It's probably because Temur have already been labeled the 'midrange' clan in terms of design, and having a counterspell (that directly burns the opponent, a very RG thing) is also within their design. Yeah my judgement is maybe just being clouded by what UWR usually represents in other formats.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:45
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Do we really need to post this again? So beautiful. So sad.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:53
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Yeah my judgement is maybe just being clouded by what UWR usually represents in other formats. Yeah but I think that's a function of blue having been the 'the counter spell and card manipulation colour' and white being 'the banishing/prison colour' which leads to UW being a control goodstuff deck, splashing R for bolt and helix, hinging around Force of Will/Brainstorm/Ponder or Mana Leak/Serum Visions in the non-rotating formats. Since it seems that Wizards are sculpting a slower standard format, they can change the profiles of each wedge to be whatever they want in the more limited card pool.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:56
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