|
Yodzilla posted:You just can't use any of the mods with it and the versions of Doom that it was packaged with were neutered. Well that's because they're German-safe.
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 01:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 01:32 |
|
|
BTSX2 chat: I like it a lot. It doesn't feel as polished as the first episode did, but it makes up for that with the level variety. There are some cruddy maps, and there are some maps that kind of suck on a first playthrough but which really benefit from repeat plays (map 4 I'm looking at you). I've only played up to map 21 so far, but my favorite map by far has been 14. Its a small mechadon (I think) map that is just wonderfully intertwined. The one thing is you better like sniper ledges and revenants.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 01:31
|
|
|
I don't really care that much about better graphics on Doom3, but I did find the gameplay boring last time I tried and want to give it another shot. I might just install Perfected Doom 3 since it's popular on ModDB and the feature list seems decent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 02:33
|
|
|
Yodzilla posted:You just can't use any of the mods with it and the versions of Doom that it was packaged with were neutered. Eh, well. That's true enough, but if you don't care a lot about modding Doom 3, it's still pretty much Doom 3. Also it comes with No Rest For The Living. I got it for $5 on Steam sale just to get NRFTL -- played that using GZDoom & it was well worth it. Then I played through BFG Doom 3 to see what was up there, and it didn't offend me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 03:25
|
|
|
Does Halo count as an early FPS? I mean, released back in 2001 is pretty retro these days. Why mention it? Well, currently trucking along and due for release this Christmas is the SPV3 project. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TQSGzR95xU In short, a complete remake/reimagining of the original Halo (complete with extended/redesigned missions), running on the Halo: Custom Edition engine and brought as close up to spec as Halo 3/Reach as they can on the old tech. First six missions due Christmas, the other 9 over the course of 2015. I'm really quite excited for it, based on that trailer. To this day, I still think the original Halo is hugely underrated. The AI in particular, combined with some random elements made the levels hugely replayable. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Sep 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 03:31
|
|
|
The main issue most people had with Halo 1 is that the map designs were super large and maze like for a console FPS. I still think it's a pretty good game though, and I like most of the Bungie made games.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 03:36
|
|
|
Elliotw2 posted:The main issue most people had with Halo 1 is that the map designs were super large and maze like for a console FPS. I still think it's a pretty good game though, and I like most of the Bungie made games. I was talking with an ex-Bungie guy a while back, and the vibe I got the maps were largely the way they were because the game was designed kinda like an RTS. There are combined arms enemy squads with their own group and individual AIs, strongpoints, areas of cover (both for you and enemies) and caches of resources that you're meant to travel between. Most of the bigger open-field battles in the game can be replayed a dozen times over and you'll get a completely different result every try due to that. To this day, the Elites are still smarter than 90% of modern FPS enemies. Halo 4 kinda lost that. The fights were just arenas with waves of enemies, and they tended to either be single-shot fodder or big dumb bullet sponges. It shows that it wasn't developed by Bungie. Edit: Apparently one of the SPV3 goals is to make the Flood levels more interesting. More three-way field battles between human, Covenant and flood forces, less shotgun corridor crawls. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 03:40
|
|
|
Dominic White posted:To this day, the Elites are still smarter than 90% of modern FPS enemies. I was thinking about this the other day. Elites were really great enemies, they were both tough and smart, to the effect that pretty much any encounter with them is challenging in its own way. The level design in the Halo games was generally pretty lousy but fighting against Covenant really never did get old.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 04:10
|
|
|
The levels were designed as playgrounds for the AI. There's various nodes letting them know where cover and vehicles and possible player hiding points are, but very little scripting beyond that. They're very autonomous, and pretty complex in their behaviour. Mixed-species squads have various morale levels too. Grunts in particular will only be halfway effective in combat when there's an Elite calling the shots, and if they see their leader killed, they become much less predictable, liable to either just run and hide or try to suicide bomb you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 04:17
|
|
|
Dominic White posted:I was talking with an ex-Bungie guy a while back, and the vibe I got the maps were largely the way they were because the game was designed kinda like an RTS. There are combined arms enemy squads with their own group and individual AIs, strongpoints, areas of cover (both for you and enemies) and caches of resources that you're meant to travel between. I suspect a lot of that is hold over from when Halo was Myst: Sci-fi. It still makes the early game pretty fun, though the interior designs were mazes of twisty passageways. edit: VV I really love that drat island, when I still had a working Xbox I'd just load that map on heroic and play it every so often. Karasu Tengu fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Sep 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 04:18
|
|
|
The great thing about Halo is how *wide* the fights were. Rather than having a clear single path for you to take, you're dropped into an open space with many different obstacles (or just an expanse of open terrain), a bunch of enemies scattered throughout, and a goal on the other side. Both you and the AIs have a ton of freedom to move around and the situation constantly evolves as you play. Silent Cartographer is one of the all-time best FPS levels. It was built as a sort of vertical slice environment throughout development and ended up having a little bit of everything by the end, with a surprising number of alternate routes and scripted responses to those choices.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 04:21
|
|
|
haveblue posted:Silent Cartographer is one of the all-time best FPS levels. It was built as a sort of vertical slice environment throughout development and ended up having a little bit of everything by the end, with a surprising number of alternate routes and scripted responses to those choices. There's two big Halo projects running in parallel, far as I can tell, with some people working on both. SPV3 is kind of a reimagining of Halo, while the 'Evolved' team is just refining what's already there. Here's the latter crew's version of Silent Cartographer in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzMloaw58zw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-8agPfnpL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khELucJsDNY Looking pretty slick.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 04:25
|
|
|
I must not have played Halo enough because I have no idea what I'm looking at that's different.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 04:38
|
|
|
Yodzilla posted:I must not have played Halo enough because I have no idea what I'm looking at that's different. The original version is distinctly less fancy looking, for starters. Best compared against the Beach video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMmrj9lquus&t=46s There's also quite a few new enemy types (Brutes from later Halos, mostly), more vehicles around, new weapons, etc. Pretty big overhaul. Much nicer UI, too!
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 04:53
|
|
|
I dunno if Halo can be considered an Early FPS, when I think of Early FPS games, I think of games like Doom, Quake, and Duke3D. Halo isn't one of them, due to how it completely changed how FPS games work, as it did introduce things like two weapon limits and regenerating health (yes I'm aware the first game had medkits. Later games would do away with them), and slowing down how fast the player could move. I dislike Halo because it and Call of Duty killed the Early FPS. So no, I don't consider Halo an Early FPS game.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 05:14
|
|
|
On the other hand, Halo 3 (or maybe Reach) was the last major FPS with a multiplayer focused on map control and equal spawns, instead of loadouts and gimmicks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 05:21
|
|
|
I've been pondering if Halo counted. Its problem is that, while there were Early FPS's after it, it's the game that led to many of the changes for Modern FPS's, I think the biggest issue being the two weapon limit. That said, I actually liked the first half. Not amazing, but solid fun. The second half with The Flood can go gently caress itself though. Complete and utter horse poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 05:21
|
|
|
Ironically for how much hate it gets from certain directions, the Halo series is one of the last mainstream banner-bearers for some specific oldschool FPS sensibilities. But yeah I don't think it fits as a main topic for this thread. (Although obviously all sorts of things can get pulled in as relevant to some discussion, so, whatevs!)
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 05:28
|
|
|
Starhawk64 posted:I dunno if Halo can be considered an Early FPS, when I think of Early FPS games, I think of games like Doom, Quake, and Duke3D. Halo isn't one of them, due to how it completely changed how FPS games work, as it did introduce things like two weapon limits and regenerating health (yes I'm aware the first game had medkits. Later games would do away with them), and slowing down how fast the player could move. I dislike Halo because it and Call of Duty killed the Early FPS. So no, I don't consider Halo an Early FPS game. Eh? Quake deathmatch had regenerating health, ammo, etc. It was all about finding and controlling a good path through levels so you can get the health, armor, ammo right as it respawned and deny everyone else. Counterstrike had limited weapons before Halo too. IMHO Halo is important as the first console FPS that actually mattered. Tons of people would have Halo nights and gatherings to hook up a couple xboxes and play big multiplayer games. It was a lot of fun when I was in college. Otherwise it's just a goofy sci-fi shooter.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 05:33
|
|
|
Johnny Law posted:Ironically for how much hate it gets from certain directions, the Halo series is one of the last mainstream banner-bearers for some specific oldschool FPS sensibilities. But yeah I don't think it fits as a main topic for this thread. I think pretty much any game about shooting mans is at least somewhat relevant to the discussion of early FPS and what the genre became.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 05:38
|
|
|
mod sassinator posted:IMHO Halo is important as the first console FPS that actually mattered. Tons of people would have Halo nights and gatherings to hook up a couple xboxes and play big multiplayer games. It was a lot of fun when I was in college. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 06:42
|
|
|
Halo was much more significant of a game than Goldeneye was, though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 14:15
|
|
|
I considered doom an early fps back in 2003, it's fair to say halo is one today. It's one of the most significant games in the genre so why not give it at least a passing mention here. Better than brutal doom shenanigans! The big open levels were the best thing about the game. Assault on the control room is the pinnacle of any shooter level for me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 14:27
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Well that's because they're German-safe. Nah, it's because Id got sued by the American Red Cross years ago and they're not allowed to use a red cross in their games. Every Id game post-Quake has health pickups that don't have a red cross on them. You should get the BFG edition anyway because it comes with extra content for Doom 3 in the form of The Lost Missions, as well as a Doom 2 megawad which works perfectly with your OG version of Doom 2 (you do own a legit copy of DOOM2.wad, right?) and any source port of your choosing. I believe BFG-edition Doom.wad also has the E1M10 Sewers level from the XBLA version of the game, too.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 14:49
|
|
|
RyokoTK posted:Halo was much more significant of a game than Goldeneye was, though. Nope. They were about equal in significance.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
Nintendo Kid posted:Nope. They were about equal in significance. Thanks Fishmech.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 16:58
|
|
|
Halo has 3 more significancy than Goldeneye.
haveblue fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Sep 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
Halo 3 is a really bad game though. So is Halo 2.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
I think Necrodome is the high water mark of classic FPS game design.
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 17:17
|
|
|
Halo is more significant because I had to suffer through way more of it at parties. Also Jet Force Gemini multi-player for life.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 17:18
|
|
|
There's just not much to talk about either game. There isn't exactly an active mod scene or multiplayer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
Babylon Astronaut posted:There's just not much to talk about either game. There isn't exactly an active mod scene or multiplayer. I'm pretty sure Doom  and Doom 2 has both. The other games might as well not even exist, as far I am concerned. Here is a wad that upgrades Doom to have Halo health.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 17:50
|
|
|
Starhawk64 posted:I dislike Halo because it and Call of Duty killed the Early FPS. So no, I don't consider Halo an Early FPS game. Half-Life and Counterstrike killed the early FPS. CoD and Halo buried them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
Babylon Astronaut posted:There's just not much to talk about either game. There isn't exactly an active mod scene or multiplayer. Halo definitely has both on the PC side of things. Bungie recently patched the game to remove Gamespy. They're hosting the multiplayer on their own boxes now, and there's always a few servers around. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Sep 7, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 18:25
|
|
|
No way. That's pretty cool.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 19:14
|
|
|
I've never really liked the slow and floaty feel of Halo's combat. As both a PC and dirty console gamer though, I definitely appreciate what I consider Bungie's most significant achievement - matchmaking. Matchmaking on console owns, and makes it incredibly easy to play shooty man games with your friends. I understand why PC gamers don't like matchmaking (I don't care for it on PC either) but it really is the best loving thing ever on console.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 19:57
|
|
|
No one has yet given us a good matchmaking system on the PC, so I can't reasonably say PC players hate it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
Cream-of-Plenty posted:I think Necrodome is the high water mark of classic FPS game design. I have a copy of Necrodome in a box in my garage. mod sassinator posted:Eh? Quake deathmatch had regenerating health, ammo, etc. What? Are you sure you were playing quake. Q3 had a regeneration power up and Q2 had an adrenaline.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
SPACE HOMOS posted:What? Are you sure you were playing quake. Q3 had a regeneration power up and Q2 had an adrenaline. I think they're confusing respawning health pickups with auto-regenerating health.
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 21:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 01:32 |
|
|
A Fancy 400 lbs posted:I think they're confusing respawning health pickups with auto-regenerating health. X-Wings used energy shields to deflect projectiles before Halo did, therefore Halo is unoriginal! Rogue had regenerating health in 1980, therefore Call of Duty is a Roguelike! Primitive man used torches to light rooms since before recorded history, therefore Thomas Edison is a hack!
|
|
#
?
Sep 7, 2014 22:13
|
|
