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Plague of Hats posted:Riftschat: I seem to recall that mega damage was much saner in its original incarnation, where it was a 10:1 scale instead of 100:1. It's one of those "easy" fixes that always makes my first thought "I could just fix up the system a little and play a fun game of Rifts" but then I remember there's still everything else about the whole system. Then in later in Rifts I think you can literally get MDC bodypaint. Kai Tave posted:I think the key difference is that 2E AD&D didn't, at the time, have a movement encouraged in part by another publishing company eager to make a profit off of selling a slightly modified AD&D2E with the serial numbers filed off in order to pander to groggy holdouts while reassuring them that they were the true keepers of D&D's legacy. Zereth fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 04:32
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Paizo: Lets make it just different enough so its irritating to convert, but close enough so that we don't fix anything.
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Sep 7, 2014 04:43
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Like, really, that's the big breakthrough that Paizo had, actually making use of RPG edition warring as a combination ad campaign, way to foster "team spirit," and brand identity. You've always had people trying to pitch their latest elfgame as being for "real roleplayers only" or whatever, but Paizo may be the first RPG publisher to actually strike it successful by directly reaching out to the "THIS IS LIKE AN MMO CROWD!"
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Sep 7, 2014 04:57
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I wonder if anyone will attempt this for 4th edition. I mean there are probably alot of dissatisfied 4e fans that could be turned into customers. Not that I'm endorsing this business model, just saying that it's possibility.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:02
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I don't know if the kind of people who really liked 4E, are the kind of people who will only play that kind of game. It seemed to appeal more, at least on the net, to the kind people who really care about the mechanics and the math, as opposed to its innate D&Dness. Pathfinder also scratched that 3.whatever itch in a way that might be hard to do with 4E, due to its much more restrictive license.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:06
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remusclaw posted:I don't know if the kind of people who really liked 4E, are the kind of people who will only play that kind of game. It seemed to appeal more, at least on the net, to the kind people who really care about the mechanics and the math, as opposed to its innate D&Dness. True for the veteran roleplayer, but not the newbies who were introduced through 4e and know it as their only D&D. Also, if you make a 4e clone, you'd have to focus on mechanics and math so it'd end up up their alley way, wouldn't it?
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Sep 7, 2014 05:08
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Covok posted:I wonder if anyone will attempt this for 4th edition. I mean there are probably alot of dissatisfied 4e fans that could be turned into customers. Not that I'm endorsing this business model, just saying that it's possibility. No, because making a 4E-alike that 4E fans will actually like takes effort. Making stuff for 3E and 3E-derivative games is a hodgepodge of copypasting, gut feeling, guesstimating, and "looks good enough," and the sorts of people who rush to buy that sort of stuff largely overlap with the sorts of people who'll tell you that math doesn't matter, stop being a rollplayer, the GM will fix it not that it needs fixing, Monks are already OP as it is. I'm not trying to say that 4E fans are all game design geniuses with impeccable taste or anything but 4E's design is A). a lot more transparent than 3E's was and B). pretty well understood at this point. There were some attempts by 3rd party publishers to create 4E content but almost invariably they stopped when people either pointed out that their content was poorly designed or because designing 4E content wound up being more work than anyone wanted to do in order to ride D&D's coattails. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 05:11
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True, I was just thinking that for that kind of player, they might be more willing to seek satisfaction on shores less traveled, and wouldn't be quite the captive audience Pathfinder managed to hook. vv It would have been nice to get the last couple of books, and maybe some reprints with errata though, PH1 has like 30 pages of it. vv remusclaw fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 05:11
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It's only a dream, but my greatest wish is for "4E grogs" to be characterized by people who are perfectly happy with the books they already have and don't need to chase new releases. Like, just a big chunk of the market that fucks off to their Avalon away from all this stupid bullshit. It would just be the sweetest kind of justice.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:14
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With all the Disney chat earlier, and my recently taking a look at a Princess class for Dungeon World, I wonder that there isn't a major untapped market for a Disneyesque RPG.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:31
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I feel like 4e players are the types to play games other than D&D, whereas with 3e, there's always this sense that they only play D&D ever. Might just be me, though.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:42
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Well, the sort of person who has strong opinions re: the "true feeling" of D&D is probably the sort of person invested in D&D to a higher degree than someone who doesn't give a poo poo either way. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that people who liked 4E probably liked it for reasons that existed besides the point of "has D&D on the cover." The thing I don't get, having seen this sort of problem expressed in the Next thread and the Catpiss thread, are people who want to run or play other games beside D&D/Pathfinder/whatever but "the group won't do it" and it's like all they can do is shrug and bear it. Just loving tell your weird elfgame friends that you would like to play a game that isn't [whatever] and that's not some totally unreasonable thing to ask of people you're ostensibly friends with. Especially if you're the GM in this equation. Playing games shouldn't be a thing you tolerate in order to hang out with some pals once a week.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:57
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Kai Tave posted:The thing I don't get, having seen this sort of problem expressed in the Next thread and the Catpiss thread, are people who want to run or play other games beside D&D/Pathfinder/whatever but "the group won't do it" and it's like all they can do is shrug and bear it. Just loving tell your weird elfgame friends that you would like to play a game that isn't [whatever] and that's not some totally unreasonable thing to ask of people you're ostensibly friends with. Especially if you're the GM in this equation. Playing games shouldn't be a thing you tolerate in order to hang out with some pals once a week. The Geek Social Fallacies strike again.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:03
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Kai Tave posted:Well, the sort of person who has strong opinions re: the "true feeling" of D&D is probably the sort of person invested in D&D to a higher degree than someone who doesn't give a poo poo either way. I don't think it's unfair to suggest that people who liked 4E probably liked it for reasons that existed besides the point of "has D&D on the cover." This is something I myself don't get. Like, I'm gonna be introducing my friends to ttgs kinda soonish and a few asked if we could play D&D. I told them "It's like D&D but better for enogh stuff. Just trust me, it's really good," and that was that because we're friends and they're on board with poo poo. If your friends do not trust you enough to play a non-D&D game then D&D isn't the problem.
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Sep 7, 2014 07:47
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Zereth posted:I think it was still 100:1, but it was only used for giant transforming planerobots which were waaaay out of scale with humans on foot. This is correct. Robotech still had 100 SDC = 1 MDC values, but man v mecha combat essentially didn't happen. Under normal circumstances, SDC and MDC don't meaningfully interact in the course of a sesson. There's one man-portable MDC weapon (with restricted availability) and no man-sized MDC armor. MDC was just for robot v robots 90% of the time. Then Invid Invasion comes along with man-sized mecha that have MDC (Cyclones), and that's when things start to go south. But at least the Cyclones are almost solely used to fight the evil Invid - human baddies are relatively rare. By the time you get to Rifts, MDC is so common that any human without armor on has a death sentence if a single round of combat breaks out. There's even some rare classes without MDC protection at all. Don't take those classes. remusclaw posted:With all the Disney chat earlier, and my recently taking a look at a Princess class for Dungeon World, I wonder that there isn't a major untapped market for a Disneyesque RPG. Been wondering that myself! Has there been a good fairy tale RPG? And I don't mean one with fairy tale elements, but that really embodied that sort of feel.
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Sep 7, 2014 08:22
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By now (for several years, really) I've become very disillusioned with 3.x D&D, but I came about such a realization in a rather strange manner. See, I never really played it that much - my experience is limited to a handful of short and/or abortive campaigns with insufficient time to really worry about underlying mechanical issues.* But, I suppose, some of the theory still interested me, which is why I used to be a minor name on the old WotC CharOp boards. (AKA 339.) And so I collected rather a lot of the 3.x books - I still have them on my shelf though I have no clue when they'll next be used.** All of this business was fun to some point, but by being so steeped in op-fu the community came to see that the system had serious issues. (See things like the Tier System and the Caster Guides to Playing GOD.) When someone delves deep enough into the mysteries of some intricate topic, they tend to either become fanatical or disenchanted with the whole affair. In my case I was the latter - unlike a number of people on that board I still hadn't played in person in a while, so perhaps I just hadn't had the necessary attachment/nostalgia beforehand. Hell, the next time I did any sort of tabletop roleplay was when I played Call of Cthulhu, which certainly did wonders on the front of "there's more out there than just d20". Nowadays I'm part of a group that tends to run short campaigns in various systems with revolving GMs. And the cool thing I've learned is that most people don't really give much of a poo poo about whether they're playing D&D or BRP or whatever else so long as they're having fun. Systems with better design will presumably facilitate fun more easily, but the point is that you don't need to be stuck with one system just because you've got social inertia. *There was still the unfinished campaign back in 2005 where it was suggested that I play a druid because the party needed a healer. I then proceeded to accidentally uncover the basis of caster supremacy, which considering the class I had was not particularly difficult. **In my current tabletop group I've placed a moratorium on running 3.x without some degree of mechanical intervention on my end. (Especially since there are two people who might like to run it. One is groggy and has questionable taste in media***, and the other is rather scatterbrained on mechanics in a system that's rules-heavy.) ***He thinks Back to the Future is a bad movie because you can guess how the climax will end for Marty. Never mind the process and all that...
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Sep 7, 2014 08:38
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Alien Rope Burn posted:This is correct. Robotech still had 100 SDC = 1 MDC values, but man v mecha combat essentially didn't happen. Under normal circumstances, SDC and MDC don't meaningfully interact in the course of a sesson. There's one man-portable MDC weapon (with restricted availability) and no man-sized MDC armor. MDC was just for robot v robots 90% of the time. Then Invid Invasion comes along with man-sized mecha that have MDC (Cyclones), and that's when things start to go south. But at least the Cyclones are almost solely used to fight the evil Invid - human baddies are relatively rare. I haven't played it, but based on a thorough reading, Polaris feels like it. It only runs well with four people who are experienced both as GMs and Players, but nails the idea of a dying fairy-tale scale mythology in feel and mechanics.
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Sep 7, 2014 08:53
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Been wondering that myself! Has there been a good fairy tale RPG? And I don't mean one with fairy tale elements, but that really embodied that sort of feel. Which sort of feel? The one where children should be good or a witch will eat them, or the one full of Miyazaki films where hungry witches are less common? From my limited information on all counts, possibilities may include Ryuutama or Grimm, but I'm not familiar enough to really say. Prokopetz on RPG.net recently ran a Kickstarter for a very whimsical game literally about fairies doing whimsical things. Which also brings to mind Nobilis and Chuubo's as other possibilities. Every time I run Nobilis or hear stories about it, it's pretty much a fairy tale story.
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Sep 7, 2014 08:56
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Been wondering that myself! Has there been a good fairy tale RPG? And I don't mean one with fairy tale elements, but that really embodied that sort of feel. Zorcerer of Zo is a fairy tale RPG that does a pretty good job, in my opinion. It's PDQ, which is a plus for me but I know that's not everyone's cup of tea. It's interesting mainly in that the rules and even the setting don't take up a huge chunk of the book and practically the majority of it is the writer talking about what influenced him, how certain ideas came about and a summary of the campaign that led to the creation of the book.
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Sep 7, 2014 09:26
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remusclaw posted:You know, I agreed with the OSR sentiment on fourth edition one thing; that it wasn't a good decision on WOTC's part to ignore the game as it was before fourth, as it ignored possible customers. Did you just not read your 4E books or something? 4E's lineage as a d20 game is glaringly obvious. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 11:22
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remusclaw posted:With all the Disney chat earlier, and my recently taking a look at a Princess class for Dungeon World, I wonder that there isn't a major untapped market for a Disneyesque RPG. Generally, there's either a major untapped market for an RPG, or an untapped market for an RPG, barring heartbreakers and knockoffs. Disneyana types have the additional advantage of being notoriously willing to spend money on things, so you could make a lot more money than you could off of regular RPG nerds. Not to mention that you'd also be attracting younger people. You'd also hear some howling from the usual suspects because it'd be a very feminine-seeming game and have lots of talking animals and would probably use nontraditional mechanics if it was successful. The only problem is in reaching out and getting people to try the game, which is very unlikely with the state of the industry.
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Sep 7, 2014 13:40
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Did you just not read your 4E books or something? 4E's lineage as a d20 game is glaringly obvious.
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Sep 7, 2014 16:12
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Did you just not read your 4E books or something? 4E's lineage as a d20 game is glaringly obvious. Even moreso as a successor to the Basic days.
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Sep 7, 2014 16:29
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Effectronica posted:You'd also hear some howling from the usual suspects because it'd be a very feminine-seeming game and have lots of talking animals and would probably use nontraditional mechanics if it was successful. The only problem is in reaching out and getting people to try the game, which is very unlikely with the state of the industry. Using my friends and acquaintances as a small sample size, there is a notable overlap between Disney nerds and gaming nerds. That overlap is often "relationship" or "marriage", mind. But yeah, I had this on the mind after reading some tumblr art blogs where people just do gag strips and fanfic based off of Disney properties, and the desire to tell more stories in those worlds is a strong one, particularly with the popularity of movies like Frozen right now.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:14
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Zurui posted:Wasn't there a pseudo-4e online game? Was it any good? Late to this but, yeah, Neverwinter is (veeeeeeeeery) loosely based on 4E and can be a pretty fun action-MMO, but it's run by Perfect World so there are microtransactions out the rear end.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:17
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Evil Mastermind posted:I feel like 4e players are the types to play games other than D&D, whereas with 3e, there's always this sense that they only play D&D ever. Might just be me, though.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:18
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About pulling a Paizo with Not 4e, don't forget that 3e had the OGL, so reprinting the entire game minus a few IP things filed off is in fact completely fine to do by the OGL. Naturally WOTC didn't use it for 4e, so you'd have trouble just copying it wholesale and throwing some tweaks on.Alien Rope Burn posted:This is correct. Robotech still had 100 SDC = 1 MDC values, but man v mecha combat essentially didn't happen. Under normal circumstances, SDC and MDC don't meaningfully interact in the course of a sesson. There's one man-portable MDC weapon (with restricted availability) and no man-sized MDC armor. MDC was just for robot v robots 90% of the time. Then Invid Invasion comes along with man-sized mecha that have MDC (Cyclones), and that's when things start to go south. But at least the Cyclones are almost solely used to fight the evil Invid - human baddies are relatively rare.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:22
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ProfessorCirno posted:This is something I myself don't get. Like, I'm gonna be introducing my friends to ttgs kinda soonish and a few asked if we could play D&D. I told them "It's like D&D but better for enogh stuff. Just trust me, it's really good," and that was that because we're friends and they're on board with poo poo. Yeah. The group I run for is not really hardcore RPG fans; they don't read forums, they very rarely page through books at game shops. They did try a few games at GenCon, but they're generally just willing to indulge me and try weird systems for a session or two when I bring it up. It's really great - and it's also very different from the assumptions I'd see on WotC or White Wolf forums.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:22
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ProfessorCirno posted:This is something I myself don't get. Like, I'm gonna be introducing my friends to ttgs kinda soonish and a few asked if we could play D&D. I told them "It's like D&D but better for enogh stuff. Just trust me, it's really good," and that was that because we're friends and they're on board with poo poo. Yeah, I'm weirded out by groups that won't play this or that. In our long-term group there tends to be like, one picky eater, and that's in regard to genres, not systems. (He doesn't like "hopeless" / World of Darkness type stuff, but he'll still play it on occasion.) Generally we'll play whatever somebody wants to run, with very few exceptions. I once avoided a Star Trek game (not being a fan) but that was when our group was big enough to run two games simultaneously. If somebody wanted to run 3.5 or Pathfinder, I wouldn't balk, but I would have suggestions on how to make it more equitable and the like. I might push for another system, but I would play if that's what they really want to do.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:27
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Did you just not read your 4E books or something? 4E's lineage as a d20 game is glaringly obvious. What I meant is they they should have kept or put some of the older games in print or pdf, for those who wanted them. And they did, and I had no more issue with them. For the Disney game, some could be spoken for Blue Rose, which covers the talking animals and stuff in an attempt to emulate Mercedes Lackey stories. I think a Disney style game really need two things to hit its market. One, it needs to be colorful and have good production values, Blue Rose and Zo are both budget looking releases, both being in black and white, though Blue Rose does have some excellent art. Two, It probably needs to not be marketed as an RPG, both to avoid the anti girl backlash, and to try and get it into big box stores which typically aren't full of people waiting to make the buyer nervous or uncomfortable. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 18:36
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It was pretty hilarious that for a while Palladium had .pdfs you could buy but WotC didn't. Yeah, eventually they stopped being so stupid but for years some bright soul at WotC central decided to quash all digital publications for "piracy" concerns. I guess piracy must be over forever now that they've decided to release a whole bunch of digital stuff again.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:45
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Have they released 4E PDF's yet? If the OSR managed to prove anything, it's that there is a group of people out there who are perfectly willing to buy AD&D over and over again. Edit: Well poo poo, they have added 4E PDFs, good for them. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 18:55
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Yeah, although they still don't have PHB/MM/DMG for any edition for some reason.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:31
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Rand Brittain posted:Yeah, although they still don't have PHB/MM/DMG for any edition for some reason. Which is insane because I would buy official PHB/DMG/MM PDFs for every edition in a heartbeat. (Well, except 5e, gently caress 5e)
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Sep 7, 2014 19:33
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Yo has no one mentioned Princesses and Paladins in this Disney game discussion yet? One Shot did two episodes about it.
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Sep 7, 2014 21:11
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Please to enjoy three hours of the Pathfinder MMO.
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Sep 8, 2014 00:02
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That's a pretty generous description. I skipped through and it seems he only leaves the Tavern for like five minutes then goes back in. Possibly could replace the video with a .jpg and no body would notice.
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Sep 8, 2014 00:07
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Covok posted:That's a pretty generous description. I skipped through and it seems he only leaves the Tavern for like five minutes then goes back in. Possibly could replace the video with a .jpg and no body would notice. I did the same. Every shot has the characters standing in the same rigid pose. And the tavern looks so generic and flat. Compare that to the 9 year old Goldshire's tavern, which has color and curves and character.
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Sep 8, 2014 00:28
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It's better off than the previous video I switched to from a few days back which was "Adventure with Bonnie", aka their community manager. Apparently, "Adventure" in this sense means having the game crash repeatedly for their community manager, and her character standing stock still or the screen going black. This goes on for the length of the video (about a half-hour). Yikes.
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Sep 8, 2014 00:37
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That's a pretty cool Dark Ages of Camelot mod. I'm curious as to what their total budget is because the $1 million they raised in Kickstarter backings is a bit low for a competitive project like this unless they have at least another $49 million in investments.
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