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Tonton Macoute posted:Well, Estonia had a police officer kidnapped, Lithuania got this, I wonder what's Latvia's "What are you going to do about this, huh?" provocation going to be.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:45
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Hmm, all those countries hate Russia... I've got an idea! Make them hate Russia even more!
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Sep 8, 2014 13:48
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My Imaginary GF posted:We were allied with Russia, once. If they play by our rules for a few generations, we can be allied with them again. Russia allying with the west makes no sense. The world is fully revert back to clash of the civilizations mode. And even if Russia doesn't belong to the different Orthodox civilization, the top powers of the world will be fighting for market and resource anyway.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:55
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Hmm, all those countries hate Russia... I've got an idea! Make them hate Russia even more! Oderint, dum metuant.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:55
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Oh hey, look what I found, the Buk used to down MH17 in Russia being driven around by Russian troops.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:56
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whatever7 posted:Russia allying with the west makes no sense. The world is fully revert back to clash of the civilizations mode. And even if Russia doesn't belong to the different Orthodox civilization, the top powers of the world will be fighting for market and resource anyway. The what?
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Sep 8, 2014 13:57
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my dad posted:The what? I am going by the definition in the actual book "Clash of the Civilization" by Samuel Huntington. The guy is an armchair nerd but he did predict it a good 10 year before everybody else.
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Sep 8, 2014 14:03
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Brown Moses posted:Oh hey, look what I found, the Buk used to down MH17 in Russia being driven around by Russian troops. RIP brown moses
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Sep 8, 2014 14:06
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whatever7 posted:I am going by the definition in the actual book "Clash of the Civilization" by Samuel Huntington. The guy is an armchair nerd but he did predict it a good 10 year before everybody else. Yeah Huntington and his ideas aren't a secret, they just are basically essentialist to the point of racism.
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Sep 8, 2014 14:07
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Brown Moses posted:Oh hey, look what I found, the Buk used to down MH17 in Russia being driven around by Russian troops. Welp enjoy your radiation poisoning
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Sep 8, 2014 14:08
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If there is anything more ridiculous than clancychat it is clash of civilizations talk; let's seriously discuss Dugin while we are at it. Stay safe, Brown Moses!
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Sep 8, 2014 14:11
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Ardennes posted:Yeah Huntington and his ideas aren't a secret, they just are basically essentialist to the point of racism. The idea itself is not racism at all. It can explain the current affairs of the 21st century very well. It can predict the incoming conflict between China and the US in South China Sea too, although obviously not alone line of what Huntington predicted in the end of his book.
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Sep 8, 2014 14:21
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You know, things like that make me really doubt all that nonsense about how Soviet Union and Russia are totally different and how Russia was also a victim to the soviet regime. How is not wanting to serve in the oppresive regime's army still a crime in Russia? kalstrams posted:I think we'll get to know that after elections. Congrats on the new avatar, but I have to say that it is a bit dated...
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Sep 8, 2014 14:22
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fatherboxx posted:If there is anything more ridiculous than clancychat it is clash of civilizations talk; let's seriously discuss Dugin while we are at it. More ridiculous than the idea of Russia joining NATO?
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Sep 8, 2014 14:22
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The so-called "Moldovan little green men" image is from Crimea all the way back from March: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/12/us-ukraine-crisis-idUSBREA1Q1E820140312
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Sep 8, 2014 14:25
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Liandar posted:Congrats on the new avatar, but I have to say that it is a bit dated... Edit: Oh, holy poo poo. 
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Sep 8, 2014 14:26
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Someone was digging through post histories on that one.
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Sep 8, 2014 14:38
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Ukrxplotation: Poroshenko gets an awesome new patch while visiting Mariupol: For those who don't know: "Ukrop", which means dill, is one of the deregatory names for Ukrainians that has been used in this conflict.
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Sep 8, 2014 14:39
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Just now on NPR: "I wonder if Russia is providing support to ISIS." I think Russia is being the bad guy lately and all but what the gently caress? They have a pretty long list of problems with Muslim extremists, many still ongoing. What would they even gain from it?  Two groups of people are doing bad things at the same time, must be related!
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Sep 8, 2014 14:50
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Wee Tinkle Wand posted:Just now on NPR: "I wonder if Russia is providing support to ISIS."
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Sep 8, 2014 14:52
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Wee Tinkle Wand posted:Just now on NPR: "I wonder if Russia is providing support to ISIS." A recent ISIS vid namedropped Putin, threatening him for his support of Assad. I somehow doubt there is much of a need to attribute support of ISIS to him as well.
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Sep 8, 2014 14:55
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whatever7 posted:The idea itself is not racism at all. It can explain the current affairs of the 21st century very well. It can predict the incoming conflict between China and the US in South China Sea too, although obviously not alone line of what Huntington predicted in the end of his book. Clash of Civilizations only became popular as a counterpoint to Fukuyama's End of History. Realists in the West like it because it gives them license to pursue naked self interest without consideration for other cultures. Just because he's right about Ukraine splitting doesn't validate the whole theory. I predicted that too, but it doesn't make me a genius.
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Sep 8, 2014 14:56
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Wee Tinkle Wand posted:Just now on NPR: "I wonder if Russia is providing support to ISIS." Well, subtly manufacturing support for internal factions is one of the things Russia is supposed to be particularly good at. No need for them to be upfront about it even to ISIS. They gain a distraction for NATO and could potentially lead the West to continue sticking its finger into the Middle East for quite a while. Here in Britain, all the coverage of the NATO conference is 'smash ISIS' this and 'don't need Assad's permission' that. Obviously Russia is the elephant in the room that's going unsaid, but the public seems pretty happy to focus on jihadists as the most terrible and credible threat to us.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:05
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:Clash of Civilizations only became popular as a counterpoint to Fukuyama's End of History. Realists in the West like it because it gives them license to pursue naked self interest without consideration for other cultures. I just don't see Russia and "The West" integrate economically and cooperate politically in any alternate timeline of the history, short of an alien invasion. They compete for the same world resource and market, and geopolitical influence. I mean, it makes perfect sense for Ukraine to want to lead toward the West because Ukraine will get more goodies from the West, kind of like Taiwan or Japan's positions in Asia, except Ukraine forgot it has no ocean to protect it from the regional hegemony.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:15
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Goodies? Just how condescending can you get. Ukraine is heading towards the West for two reasons: 1) People see how Poland solved the problems with corruption that are plaguing the country, and Russia didn't. 2) Some of Ukrainian citizens remember the horrific crimes of Soviet and Russian governments against the Ukrainian people and do not buy the "brotherly peoples" propaganda fig leaf. (The only brothly thing is that the Russians were abused quite a bit, too).
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Sep 8, 2014 15:22
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whatever7 posted:I just don't see Russia and "The West" integrate economically and cooperate politically in any alternate timeline of the history, short of an alien invasion. They compete for the same world resource and market, and geopolitical influence. The issue is that they just doesn't much have to do with "civilizations," culture or religion when it is rather predictable political differences. If anything according to Huntington the Balkans pretty much all fall under the "Orthodox" world when they really have nothing to do with the current conflict. If his theory made sense then Bulgaria and Romania would be on Russia's side when they clearly aren't.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:22
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Brown Moses posted:Oh hey, look what I found, the Buk used to down MH17 in Russia being driven around by Russian troops. What are the repercussions that Russia can get for its now completely proven targeted slaughter of 300 neutral civilians by Russian soldiers while they were undertaking a terrorist attack in Ukraine? Or will this be completely ignored? Finlander fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 15:26
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Finlander posted:What are the repercussions that Russia can get for its now completely proven targeted slaughter of 300 neutral civilians by Russian soldiers while they were undertaking a terrorist attack in Ukraine? Or will this be completely ignored? Maybe more sanctions?
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Sep 8, 2014 15:35
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Finlander posted:What are the repercussions that Russia can get for its now completely proven targeted slaughter of 300 neutral civilians by Russian soldiers while they were undertaking a terrorist attack in Ukraine? Or will this be completely ignored? All that is proven is that the BUK was Russian. There's nothing in the article about the crew. It's great read, you should actually do it before going full-auto lunatic style speech mode.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:36
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Finlander posted:What are the repercussions that Russia can get for its now completely proven targeted slaughter of 300 neutral civilians by Russian soldiers while they were undertaking a terrorist attack in Ukraine? Or will this be completely ignored? I am still hearing loads of denial from Russian supporters or conspiracy nuts that this is all fabricated lies made by the Jews who control the world and want to destroy Putin who decided to challenge them for authority and save his people. Most of us trust Brown Moses' work but the rest of the world sees his work as that of a conspiracy nut who cites his sources better than the rest. 
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Sep 8, 2014 15:41
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BouncingBuckyBalls posted:I am still hearing loads of denial from Russian supporters or conspiracy nuts that this is all fabricated lies made by the Jews who control the world and want to destroy Putin who decided to challenge them for authority and save his people. Most of us trust Brown Moses' work but the rest of the world sees his work as that of a conspiracy nut who cites his sources better than the rest. I don't know if it's the name or the subject matters or what but I have a hard time convincing people that Bellingcat is legit and not a wingnut conspiracy site. First reaction is universally negative and I have to sit and walk them through some of the investigations on the site before they consider otherwise.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:54
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Ardennes posted:The issue is that they just doesn't much have to do with "civilizations," culture or religion when it is rather predictable political differences. If anything according to Huntington the Balkans pretty much all fall under the "Orthodox" world when they really have nothing to do with the current conflict. Yeah, I would argue that half these civilizations (if we accept their existence) are more involved in internal conflicts than conflicts with each other and that largely invalidates his 'fault line' theory. They aren't monolithic blocks, and to view them as such is over simplistic. For example: The Muslim civilization is struggling with fundamentalism that crosses state borders. A good amount Sub-Saharan Africa have been fighting a war in the Congo for ~20 years, or dealing with the repercussions there from. In the 'Eastern world' China still sees itself as expansionist while the Buddhist states largely hate each other, even if they aren't in hot wars.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:56
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StashAugustine posted:Someone was digging through post histories on that one. Probably archaeo or whatever his name is.
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Sep 8, 2014 15:58
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Ardennes posted:Yeah Huntington and his ideas aren't a secret, they just are basically essentialist to the point of racism. Huntington has been far more successful at predicting the twenty-first century than the usual slew of culture-ignoring neoliberal/Marxist analysts.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:10
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Phlegmish posted:Huntington has been far more successful at predicting the twenty-first century than the usual slew of culture-ignoring neoliberal/Marxist analysts. So tell me when French Guyana is going to declare independence.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:14
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Phlegmish posted:Huntington has been far more successful at predicting the twenty-first century than the usual slew of culture-ignoring neoliberal/Marxist analysts. Realism is experiencing a bit of a comeback, but to be fair most Marxist IR schools draw heavily on culture.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:14
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BouncingBuckyBalls posted:I am still hearing loads of denial from Russian supporters or conspiracy nuts that this is all fabricated lies made by the Jews who control the world and want to destroy Putin who decided to challenge them for authority and save his people. Most of us trust Brown Moses' work but the rest of the world sees his work as that of a conspiracy nut who cites his sources better than the rest. Exactly nothing is going to happen even if the crew admits it live on BBC. And this is only partially  Russia, the Americans who shot down the Iranian airliner got medals for it, and I don't recall anyone getting in trouble in other incidence either. But gently caress Russia anyway.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:21
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Huntington's specific forecast in Clash of Civilizations was that Ukraine would most likely "remain united, remain cleft, remain independent and generally cooperate closely with Russia", which follows as a direct result of his idea that Ukraine is part of the same civilisation as Russia -- "The Russian-Ukrainian relationship ... is the core essential to unity in the Orthodox world". If anything what the current crisis has shown is that Russia is going its own, specifically Russian way, and that the 'Orthodox world' is a phantasm. I don't know where people are getting the idea that the current crisis has proven him to be a great prophet. And as far as this goes: Phlegmish posted:Huntington has been far more successful at predicting the twenty-first century than the usual slew of culture-ignoring neoliberal/Marxist analysts. Do you have any particular analysts in mind here? I struggle to think of any major IR theorists who outright deny or ignore the presence of meaningful cultural differences, whether among the American neo/neo consensus or in alternative interpretations. Certainly the various streams of constructivists, 'postmodernists', and neo-Gramscians -- the latter being the most important brand of Marxist analyst in contemporary IR -- can't be accused of ignoring culture when to a large extent it's their entire focus.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:24
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Radio Prune posted:Probably archaeo or whatever his name is. Probably the same person who bought me this one. Although I am a bit gutted that I didn't warrant the effort of a picture.
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Sep 8, 2014 16:26
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Reports that one country is blocking further EU sanctions on Russia. Somehow I am reminded of liberum veto...
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Sep 8, 2014 16:42
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