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Knyteguy posted:Amazon emails, Newegg emails, etc. Good lord man, turn these off. Easy way to reduce your splurge instinct right there.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:08
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slap me silly posted:Good lord man, turn these off. Easy way to reduce your splurge instinct right there. Seriously. Spending time dreaming about buying new things is the easiest route to actually doing it. I started to impulse purchase a Wii U based on the price drop of the refurb in the Coupons thread. I decided to wait a week, and play one in a store before making my decision. I spent about 5 minutes playing before I realized that it was just going to be the same games with prettier graphics, and that I don't really want to spend any more free time playing games. I went home, picked up my guitar and downloaded a few new custom DLCs for Rocksmith and jammed out for an hour. It was free and I had just as much fun as if I was playing a new game system, and I'm getting better at a real-life skill at the same time.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:23
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slap me silly posted:Good lord man, turn these off. Easy way to reduce your splurge instinct right there. Done. Along with a bunch of others. Should reduce the email volume I get too.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:01
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Knyteguy posted:Horking: The wireless HDMI was just something that was practical for our situation. We can't hang stuff on the ceiling because of asbestos, and there was about 10 feet of open space from door jams alone. I think in this particular case not waiting was OK. I'm not going to regret this purchase because of what it enables for us. I do like the idea of printing Aagar's post; I'll do that if I get access to a printer. Agreed that there is a sort of spending:happiness ratio here. Probably just instant gratification. I will try replacing a hobby in its place if I start to feel like that. Name one impulse buy that cost over 50 dollars that you did not regret in any way shape or form (no regrets on the timing, no regrets on "I should have tried this out first", no regrets on "I should have done something else instead", no regrets on "I hosed up my budget and now I have an extra lean week coming at me", no regrets on "poo poo now I'm ashamed to talk to BFC about this"). I'll name several that you did regret: Credit Card ($300 deposit, since it's secured, right?): regretted not getting more research/planning done Kindle ($69): regretted buying at the beginning of the month PS4 (I don't even know how much these cost): you brought it back because it didn't have any good games or something Chromecast ($40, was that before tax + transportation costs if you had to drive to get it? Does that end up being 50 overall? Either way!): You regretted it so much that you're returning it. The act of spending front-loaded every month in general: quote:What I think happens is like last month and July - we spent everything up front, and then we saved and saved and saved with little spending. Then we hit the beginning of the next month and it's like the faucet opens. We get a little bit of spending cash available and we've been austere on spending for two+ weeks so we go a little crazy. Frankly, the only thing I've seen that you don't regret is your football thing, which a) is more than the 108 you said you were going to pay for it, and b) is legitimately important to you and has been important to you for a long while, so you've had well over two weeks to decide you really do want to buy it. And even then, I don't even know if you're gonna get to watching the first game and end up thinking "nope I didn't want this package, I should have gotten a different one." You said this to me not even a week ago: quote:You're right I struggle with that behavior, but I'm also not a slave to it. I mean there's stuff I want to buy all of the time, even stuff I've wanted for nearly a decade, but it doesn't mean I buy it. I think that's important to note as well. Honestly, I think you're wrong. You are a slave to your spending, and you're currently oscillating between putting your hands over your ears and shouting "AM NOT AM NOT AM NOT" and realizing how much it's loving you. You think "I can avoid buying X" means you're not a slave to it, but your only alternative to buying X is buying Y for almost as much (except for the cooking multiple meals in advance and freezing them thing; if you're still doing that, that's loving fantastic and you should be pleased with yourself on that front). You have a pattern, dude. You can't see the forest for the trees, but we can. 1. You realize you're spending too much and in a way that isn't actually making you happy. 2. This makes you unhappy and while you're unhappy, your brain starts lying to you about ways to make yourself happy (by spending money). 3. You fight it for a while, but now you've transferred your unhappiness to you not having whatever stupid thing you want to buy. 4. People call you stupid in BFC, you start thinking about the purchase more seriously ("Maybe I'll just save less money, maybe I'll just not eat out during the second half of the month..."). 5. Thinking about the purchase gets you excited and happy and you know BFC's just going to bring you down again and tell you not to buy it, so you buy the thing instead of posting about it. 6. You eventually have to mention it, BFC savages you for a while, you get defensive and lie to yourself about how much you needed it RIGHT NOW RIGHT NOW. 7. Your actions have consequences and eventually you regret your purchase for some reason or other (in this case, it'll be because you have no more budget left for the month). 8. If your self-discipline is high, which it was last month, you'll curtail your spending and have a lean X number of weeks left in the month. GOTO 2 (Why did you need a long HDMI cable again? Did you consider moving the computer into the TV room or something instead? What? Did you even try a long HDMI cable first?) When you get some time, filter the thread by only your posts and read from beginning of May or July onwards or something. Colin Mockery fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 18:20
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So I guess all these tricks/ideas people are posting in here are things to help you stick to your budget. Knyteguy: in the long term how will you be able to stick to a budget? What's your plan?
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Sep 9, 2014 18:23
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Horking let me get back to you on your post after work. Chromecast/Wireless HDMI/Football though they're all in one. I got the Chromecast hoping it would work in lieu of the HDMI but it didn't. I didn't actually purchase a football package; I got the Chromecast which didn't work very well for what we needed it to do, and then I got the wireless HDMI which did.n8r posted:So I guess all these tricks/ideas people are posting in here are things to help you stick to your budget. Knyteguy: in the long term how will you be able to stick to a budget? What's your plan? I think about this a lot, and I've been speaking to my wife about it as well. I'm hoping that I have an arsenal of tools to stick to budget, and I'm able to firmly stick with with good purchasing habits. I figure I'll need to reevaluate everything after the baby is born. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Sep 9, 2014 |
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Sep 9, 2014 20:39
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OK now that I'm off work (bolding is my response):Horking Delight posted:Name one impulse buy that cost over 50 dollars that you did not regret in any way shape or form (no regrets on the timing, no regrets on "I should have tried this out first", no regrets on "I should have done something else instead", no regrets on "I hosed up my budget and now I have an extra lean week coming at me", no regrets on "poo poo now I'm ashamed to talk to BFC about this"). I thought the bolding would suck but I think it actually makes it more readable. Edit: To try to break out of this pattern we may be in I want to try what someone mentioned next month. Basically it wasn't don't touch the goddamn flex/discretionary spending until the end of the month. I can do that. Edit2: And thanks Horking. 
Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 01:47
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Knyteguy posted:Old Fart: We should be a little over a month ahead right now, I think. Even after bills. My only concern is spending so much money right at the front, and then coming to need it when we could have just been late on a bill or something. We're talking emergency scenario but still. When you get paid, how do you classify it? Is it for this month's budget, or next month's budget. Are you aware that's an option in YNAB? Every paycheck I receive in September is used for October's budget. I don't mean in some abstract sense of having extra in my accounts, I mean actually literally entered into YNAB as part of October's budget. Edit: looking at your spreadsheet, you are not a month ahead. You have income budgeted for September, but your actual income isn't yet up to the budgeted amount. If you were a month ahead, then your budgeted income for September would have been every dollar you earned in August. There'd be no waiting for a paycheck in order to have your actual income match your budgeted income. All your September paychecks would be going to October's income line item. Do you see what I mean? Old Fart fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 03:08
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Okay dude, if you're taking something back it means you'd rather have the money than the thing, which means somewhere you made a mistake (possibly a small mistake, possibly a larger one, possibly an unavoidable one but many times these aren't actually unavoidable) in purchasing it. Though I definitely assumed "wireless HDMI" was a "random impulse buy" thing and not "football package I've been planning on buying for a while", so thanks for the clarification, that definitely changes things (you still should have waited if you could have!). I know you feel like you're in control now, because you just got off a pretty big spending spree, but it's only what, the 9th? How are you going to feel on the 25th? Is future Knyteguy going to be cursing past Knyteguy for spending all his restaurant budget in the first week? Do you think it would help putting at least your discretionary budget on a weekly cash system? I definitely know I feel way less interested in buying a coffee when I check my wallet and see I've only got twenty bucks left that I'm already planning on using for a meal. You have three weeks now, so it'd be... looks like 65 bucks left for discretionary, and 30 left for flex (You've "spent" 120 of it so far (!!! holy poo poo that's 80%) in covering your budget overages (yes, it even applies to your necessity categories)). So you have about 30 bucks per week left, and if you share that with your wife, that's $15/week for each of you for the next three weeks. (I don't know if I'd be able to meet 15/week for three weeks. D: Probably only if I'd bought something I was reaaaaally happy with, and like, looked at a picture of it regularly to remind myself how much more I wanted it than eating out for lunch.) And really: thanks a lot for answering all my questions and being transparent. I think it's clear that you're trying really hard to get your spending under control, and hopefully one day in the future you can look back on your decisions and think "wow why did I do that when I could have done a cheaper, just as good alternative". EDIT: ^^ Isn't your emergency fund supposed to take care of emergency situations? You're not really a month ahead if you can't just transfer your monthly budget to a different account or something on the 1st of each month and do all your spending from your "Budget Checking Account" or whatever. Colin Mockery fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 03:20
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The HDMI thing was part of this NFL package this entire time? Why doesn't it have its own line item. Also congrats on the new thread title you should read it early and often. Especially often.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:00
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I'm coming around a little bit to the other thinking of things. Instead of micromanaging your purchases, I think the recommendation of setting your savings goals first and then you're free to spend whatever else beyond that is worth a shot. That's pretty much how I learned financial discipline - working towards my goals FIRST, then whatever "left over" is discretionary. You're making pretty decent money, and if you want to buy a wireless HDMI thing that's fine. Your savings, like a bill, are something you have to pay, the only exception ever being some sort of unavoidable emergency that you couldn't have planned for. Whenever you get paid, you put X amount aside just like any other bill. Then, when you've hit your savings goal and you don't have other obligations, sure you're allowed to spend money. After you do this for a while, you may notice that if you have $300 left over you'll still want to save a portion of that because it's now habit and you like seeing that bank balance go up vs. chasing the next toy to buy. This is the basics of the dreesemonkey finances plan:
We're afraid that this might lead you to spend left over money just because you have it, even though you've met your savings goal. Which might eventually lead to over-spending, which then leads to robbing from your savings goals.
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Sep 10, 2014 18:03
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This is the best thread title change in a while.
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Sep 10, 2014 18:11
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Old Fart posted:Then you're not a month ahead.
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Sep 10, 2014 18:52
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Giraffe posted:Can't he just stay a month ahead by keeping a month's worth of income in his checking account? I think the net effect is the same, but it's less complicated: you track the spending you did in September against the money you made in September. At the very least, isn't it worth a shot? Many people have sung the virtues of this method, and it's even the endgame for YNAB. Maybe just try it for a few months, see how it goes?
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Sep 10, 2014 20:27
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dreesemonkey posted:I'm coming around a little bit to the other thinking of things. Instead of micromanaging your purchases, I think the recommendation of setting your savings goals first and then you're free to spend whatever else beyond that is worth a shot. That's pretty much how I learned financial discipline - working towards my goals FIRST, then whatever "left over" is discretionary. You're making pretty decent money, and if you want to buy a wireless HDMI thing that's fine. I suggested something like this earlier. In addition treating savings like a bill is probably one of the most basic financial responsibility things espoused by lots of 'experts'. Take out savings, fixed monthly expenses, and payments on debt - then fart around and spend the rest on whatever.
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Sep 10, 2014 21:29
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slap me silly posted:Good lord man, turn these off. Easy way to reduce your splurge instinct right there.
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Sep 10, 2014 22:23
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Veskit posted:The HDMI thing was part of this NFL package this entire time? Why doesn't it have its own line item. Horking Delight posted:Okay dude, if you're taking something back it means you'd rather have the money than the thing, which means somewhere you made a mistake (possibly a small mistake, possibly a larger one, possibly an unavoidable one but many times these aren't actually unavoidable) in purchasing it. Yea it's one of the reasons I was getting so frustrated. I guess I did a bad job conveying that point. I was trying to cut back the football expenditure to $40.00 by buying a Chromecast instead, but the lag necessitated the wireless HDMI. Plus the wireless HDMI added so much value beyond being able to watch football that it really was worth the extra $20 or so. I've already cancelled Hulu plus so that's $7.99/mo saved right there because of this thing. Bugamol thought (because others were harping on it I think) that I shouldn't make the football a line item, so I just took that advice. I just rolled that planned expense into the discretionary budget instead. I haven't really bought anything I didn't plan to so far this month at all. We did overdo it on restaurants though. My wife and I have taken steps to fix that. I'll look into weekly budgeting for Oct. Every dollar of our savings is currently earmarked as emergency fund. I think word usage is muddying everything up. But we're clearly a month ahead as we have more than a month's worth of income saved from August. We're using that money to pay bills and stuff, but we could easily make it this month and into next month without any income. We should have just about 2 months of expenses saved by the end of September. dreesemonkey posted:[savings as a bill] I know more people made some good points which I've read, but I think I answered most everyone's questions and concerns with the previous few paragraphs. Crunch time at work still.
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Sep 10, 2014 23:05
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Knyteguy posted:we're clearly a month ahead as we have more than a month's worth of income saved from August. We're using that money to pay bills and stuff, but we could easily make it this month and into next month without any income. There's a reason why operating a month ahead is the end goal of YNAB, separate from any other savings goals. I don't know how many times you want me to repeat that the psychological effect is one of relief and stress reduction. After a while, you don't even care when your paychecks come in. If you have the savings to do it right now, then do it. You have nothing to lose. If you don't like it after six months, then go back to what you're doing now.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:14
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OK transfer one month and you are a month ahead. Done.
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Sep 11, 2014 01:28
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Old Fart posted:Sorry to belabour the point, but you're not operating a month ahead. I have ten months of expenses saved up, but I'm not ten months ahead. I'm one month ahead. The amount of money in my accounts has absolutely nothing to do with my budget. Is there really stress caused by when your paychecks come in if you can just transfer money from savings and transfer it back when it comes in? That is, outside of what a late paycheck says about the company you work for. I guess one is more tempted to blow money in one's checking account but to me that's the same. I guess I'm fortunate in that my budgeting has very little to do with my income, a paycheck coming in is a non-event to me. I think YNAB kind of overemphasizes it, to me living month to month with a one month buffer is mostly the same as living month to month.
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Sep 11, 2014 18:00
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It's been a couple days. How's it going, Knyteguy?
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Sep 15, 2014 05:22
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Horking Delight posted:It's been a couple days. How's it going, Knyteguy? Going OK.  Nearly out of discretionary, just gotta keep working on that. I think I'll like the macro approach of just moving savings over to a separate account and just working with what is left. I overestimated the wife's paycheck a little bit because it was difficult to figure out what the amount would be after upping the HSA so much. That moves the savings goal somewhat, but I haven't bothered to figure out where exactly. We'll probably just save what we can save while keeping a really close eye on discretionary. With the HSA we're still talking around $2,200-2,400 or so this month so I'm not too concerned. Not sure what goal we'll set next month yet. We also paid nearly $100.00 in extra rent just to make sure we had it covered, so that's a sort of savings in itself, as we'll owe less in Oct. Haven't opened that checking account yet. Capital One 360 runs a credit check, so I'm a little concerned about that. Will get to that soon. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 17:55
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Knyteguy posted:We also paid nearly $100.00 in extra rent just to make sure we had it covered What does this mean? Is your rent a variable number you're uncertain of from month to month?
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Sep 15, 2014 18:29
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Inverse Icarus posted:What does this mean? Is your rent a variable number you're uncertain of from month to month? This month, yes. We had a $150.00 deposit on top of the normal rent due and apparently they forgot to bill us a day when we moved in, so we just threw in a little extra to ensure we didn't have to pay a late fee or deal with it any more than putting a check in the drop box. Normal rent is sub $800.00 (can't remember exactly atm).
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Sep 15, 2014 18:48
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How/why did you pull out 900 dollars from your savings? Actually in general that savings part is loving hard as poo poo to understand, can you run that down for us what it all means? Cause it looks like you ate up a ton of it.
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Sep 15, 2014 19:10
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Veskit posted:How/why did you pull out 900 dollars from your savings? Actually in general that savings part is loving hard as poo poo to understand, can you run that down for us what it all means? Cause it looks like you ate up a ton of it. A large majority of our bills pull during the first half of the month. Like 90% or so it looks like. So my 2nd paycheck of the month is the one that will build most of our savings. So we're just borrowing from savings until the 22nd is pretty much how it works. I agree the savings is really hard to understand. Having a separate account will help that out quite a bit I think.  The way I've been thinking about it is I know that the numbers will be higher at the end of the month than at the start.I guess ideally we have enough to cover 1 month's worth of expenses in our main checking at the 1st of each month, and the rest of the income for the month goes into the savings. Edit: Oh and also the secured card has $300.00 taken. So it's actually about $600.00. Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 19:56
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There really should at least be a line item then for your savings contribution. I know that it has been discussed but I think this is solid evidence as to why it'd be nice.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:18
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Veskit posted:There really should at least be a line item then for your savings contribution. I know that it has been discussed but I think this is solid evidence as to why it'd be nice. Ok will do in October. I'll look over the budget again and try to figure out what's working and what isn't. Hopefully this is the last time; I think I've changed the budget format at least slightly every single month.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:35
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Dipping into your savings to cover monthly expenses is pretty lovely and dangerous for people with issues controlling their spending, but people shouldn't sweat you for it if you pay it all back by the end of the month. Do what you can to get a month ahead, pay into your savings like it's a bill, and it won't happen again. Good luck and stick with it.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:09
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Inverse Icarus posted:Dipping into your savings to cover monthly expenses is pretty lovely and dangerous for people with issues controlling their spending, but people shouldn't sweat you for it if you pay it all back by the end of the month. I can't really poo poo on him for doing it if it's budgeted to pay it back, but there's no way to track that the money is set aside to do that, it's only tracked that it goes out of his account. I do agree it's dangerous the way it's set up now because it's effectively no different than the secured credit card situation. Maybe less dangerous because you're playing with your savings rather than debt, but you could make an argument either way.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:24
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I think it could be dangerous, as yea it makes it easier to spend and it is our main checking account. What if we just move our savings into our actual savings account we already have, instead of opening another checking? I'm going to be annoyed since the APY is only .2% and I know our checking will beat inflation at 2.5%, but forest for the trees and all that I guess. If it saves us more than $250.00 a year by keeping it in a separate account then I guess it's worth it. We'll still earn a little $$ on the money we have in the checking at least. The savings account still makes it a safe emergency fund account because we have instant transfer access 24/7. Any thoughts before I start transferring money over tonight? Just got this email which is what made me flip to just using the savings instead: http://www.feedthepig.org/index.php/manage-your-money/saving/emergency-fund#.VBdYoPldVF1
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Sep 15, 2014 22:23
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Your checking account has 2.5% APR yet your savings have .2% apr? Wait is this a normal thing?
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Sep 15, 2014 22:38
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Veskit posted:Your checking account has 2.5% APR yet your savings have .2% apr? Wait is this a normal thing? Yes. It's the only reason we haven't been keeping savings in a separate account. I don't think it's normal it's just an account type our credit union offers. https://www.gncu.org/Accounts/Personal-Accounts/Checking/Aspire-Checking The requirements make it prohibitive as a savings account only though (mainly the first one):
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Sep 15, 2014 22:50
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The interest rate on a few thousand dollars of your money is the least of your worries. Forget interest rates and put the money where it will be safe and easy to keep track of. Reward checking accounts are a stupid game for fatwallet readers who are bored with basic stuff like not outspending their means.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:57
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slap me silly posted:The interest rate on a few thousand dollars of your money is the least of your worries. Forget interest rates and put the money where it will be safe and easy to keep track of. Reward checking accounts are a stupid game for fatwallet readers who are bored with basic stuff like not outspending their means. Yea you're right. I didn't realize it was a rewards checking account though (pretty much all my CU offers). I'll need to figure out what we'll need for the first 22 days of next month, but I think we'll start utilizing our savings account starting with a deposit tonight. I'm going to do my best to estimate how much to transfer so we don't need to take any back out for next month, while allowing us to deposit the remainder of this month's income.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:31
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Knyteguy posted:I overestimated the wife's paycheck a little bit Inverse Icarus posted:Do what you can to get a month ahead, pay into your savings like it's a bill, and it won't happen again. Good luck and stick with it.
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Sep 16, 2014 00:56
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Old Fart I'm still trying to work out how to do it without a buffer like YNAB allows. New budget with some artistic liberties taken:  OK this is the final iteration of how I want to lay out the budget. I got rid of a category or two (or more accurately rolled it into other categories), and clarified what I think should be considered as discretionary. I adjusted the savings goal to what I think we can hit this month, but I want to point out that number is just a rough estimate without a whole lot of though put into the situation with my wife's paycheck being less than expected. Total savings could be more or less. Next month I'm not going to use a different methodology for discretionary where it's pretty much just whatever is leftover after meeting bills and savings goals. I'm going to try to overestimate bills to ensure we don't go over budget. Also any leftovers from bills will go to the savings. I'm going to wing it on checking/savings deposits and adjust as necessary. Obviously due to that federal law I want to make sure I don't need to withdraw from savings more than a couple times a month (they force you to turn it into a checking account). I'm going to try for not at all but I don't expect that to happen right away. E: updated image to show a couple of transfers correctly; clarifications Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 05:47
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Knyteguy posted:Old Fart I'm still trying to work out how to do it without a buffer like YNAB allows. It's really only slightly different than what you're doing now, but it's a lot less stressful and a lot less work.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:30
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Old Fart posted:It's easy. You already have the buffer. Do what you've been doing, which is take out from your savings for a month. But then all the income from that month is registered as funds available for the NEXT month. That way you stop having a negative number for your income. You stop moving funds back and forth. At the beginning of the month you say "okay, this is what we have". You lay it all out. You pay all your bills at once. You pay your savings 'bill'. You set up your categories. Any income from the current month is TOTALLY IGNORED until the start of next month. And it's done. OK so again I get it in YNAB. But here are you recommending that I: 1) Deposit the total of our income this month into savings (say we start at $0) 2) Next month, say on the first, we pull the total of our income from this month into checking 3) After doing step 2, we redeposit our savings line item, pay our bills, rest would be discretionary? 4) Deposit all of next month's income into savings Rinse and repeat? Obviously we could skip the redeposit of the savings if we just didn't draw it in the first place and called it paid. I'm willing to give it a shot at least, but I want to be sure I understand the methodology before I commit to anything.
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Sep 17, 2014 00:38
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Grumble... In your checking you should have all of next month's bills + discretionary (but not the savings goal that goes to the savings account at the end of the month. Say it is $3k bills, $1k savings per month. Put any other money in savings. There a month ahead. Then this month say you make $4500. You spent the $3k on all your bills for this month so $3k goes back into checking for next month. $1k goes into savings as the savings goal. You $500 left over that you can pay down debt, add to savings, or blow. Is it really that hard? Is this not what everyone does?
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Sep 17, 2014 01:07
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