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If I wanted to worship their soft God who died after less than a day on a cross, I'd start out that way 
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Sep 10, 2014 02:46
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Maybe I am just used to it but Gavelkind is really not that hard to deal with (from a norse perspective). Only have one of your highest level titles, give some land to your sons younger than the one you want to be heir, kill anyone older than him. Stabbing is the easiest way and its not hard to make a ton of cash raiding, except for maybe your 1st/2nd rulers. But aside from stabbing there's also having them lead your armies, sending them to the varangian guard - it may kill them outright, give them traits that make them more likely to die on their own, or if they convert more people are likely to join your brother's/wife's/concubine's plot to kill them, and for children, send them to be educated by someone who has joined a plot to kill them for a freebee (also don't auto-stop plots for this and other reasons). If you want to be super game-y about it you can basically choose when to die by getting revenge stabbed. I am interested to see what elective-gavelkind turns out to be. Since it is supposed to be worse I am guessing you still play on as your eldest but younger sons (or your vassals) have the potential to take you top level title. That no-war independence thing just seems like a massive "gently caress you" to the player if it turns out to be true.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:11
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Yeah see stabbing is great but this next patch removes it from the game entirely. So that's right out.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:12
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I've been experimenting with starting as a pagan and converting to Judaism via concubine. Only really practical with the Norse (Rurik and Dyre mainly), but it turns all your neighbors into free lunches and thanks to your ancestral faith being unreformed provinces and characters convert much easier.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:15
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Excelzior posted:Yeah see stabbing is great but this next patch removes it from the game entirely. Yeah that is going suck. I'm hoping they at least let you plot against your children with it removed. I'll wait and see what happens but guaranteeing everything most likely goes to poo poo every succession and making it nearly impossible to choose which heir to play as, short of using the console, sounds pretty anti-fun to me.
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Sep 10, 2014 05:26
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TheBlackRoija posted:Yeah that is going suck. I'm hoping they at least let you plot against your children with it removed. Especially because it was not unknown for rulers to go on a hunting trip with their family and the eldest son was horrifically killed by a bear in the woods! Or just plain went missing, or ate some bad food, or....
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Sep 10, 2014 05:45
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They call it the wilds for a reason!
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Sep 10, 2014 05:53
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Excelzior posted:Yeah see stabbing is great but this next patch removes it from the game entirely. Hold on, it's just the "pay an assassin gold for a chance at killing a person" that's going, right? You can still plot stab people, surely?
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Sep 10, 2014 08:53
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Excelzior posted:Yeah see stabbing is great but this next patch removes it from the game entirely. I thought you were joking. Do they not realize why we play this game?
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Sep 10, 2014 08:56
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THE BAR posted:Hold on, it's just the "pay an assassin gold for a chance at killing a person" that's going, right? You can still plot stab people, surely? That's true, but diplo-stabbing was the only way to get rid of your children, since you can't plot to kill them. Torrannor fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 09:02
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I can see their motivation, which is "people are getting around Gavelkind's balancing effect by stabbing their own kids!" But the core issue here is that gavelkind inheritance is kind of broken and not really reflective of how inheritance worked in those societies. Your holdings are cast to your issue willy-nilly. People have already thought up a will system where you can determine while your current character lives how the inheritance is to be divided. With Gavelkind there could be some limits on how you can distribute your lands (son #2 must receive at least one title of level X and three titles of level Y), and your sons would gain claims on each other's holdings after inheritance, but it would at least give you a shot at managing your inheritance somewhat and establishing a personal demesne you can improve and hand over to your successor.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:07
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Honestly, I very rarely try to plot-assassinate somebody, especially when it concerns people I actually want dead now as opposed to "eh, if they die quicker that would be nice, but it's not a real problem if they don't". Rulers at your borders, adventurers, the people that can actually threaten you, those are the people that you can only rarely get to with plots because everybody in their realm dislikes you. Wives, vassals, those people are more easily dealt with with plots, but usually they're not the problem. I predict problems in the future. While they said they'd overhaul plots, they also said they overhauled decadence last time, and look how that poo poo went.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:09
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I'm still puzzled that people cannot manage gavelkind. If you are a king, as long as each of your children has a duchy your oldest son will inherit your primary duchy with all it's de jure counties. Give out the duchies before your character dies to be on the safe side. It worked for me every time without fail, and one de jure duchy is more than enough to last until you can reform the faith to switch out of gavelkind.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:12
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Torrannor posted:I'm still puzzled that people cannot manage gavelkind. If you are a king, as long as each of your children has a duchy your oldest son will inherit your primary duchy with all it's de jure counties. Give out the duchies before your character dies to be on the safe side. It worked for me every time without fail, and one de jure duchy is more than enough to last until you can reform the faith to switch out of gavelkind. Yeah, of course when you can do this, it usually works. But some wonky poo poo can still happen, and if you don't have enough duchies, your sons will start cross-inheriting counties in random order. And if any of the newly minted branch dynasties grow any stronger they are going to give your eldest hell upon succession.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:21
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TheMcD posted:Honestly, I very rarely try to plot-assassinate somebody, especially when it concerns people I actually want dead now as opposed to "eh, if they die quicker that would be nice, but it's not a real problem if they don't". Rulers at your borders, adventurers, the people that can actually threaten you, those are the people that you can only rarely get to with plots because everybody in their realm dislikes you. Wives, vassals, those people are more easily dealt with with plots, but usually they're not the problem. Holy crap, I forgot about adventurers. They -have- to put in another assassination system for those, otherwise they'll have to change the pop-ups when you're warned about them!
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Sep 10, 2014 09:27
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Funky Valentine posted:And lo and behold, the shittiest loving mechanic in the game just got shittier Pretty drat accurate, though; peripheral Europe (and tribal polities throughout the ages, I guess) had a hell of a time building lasting hegemonies during this period. Brian Boru is a pretty good example. People had been trying to construct a larger, more coherent polity in Ireland (a fairly small territory by continental standards, but one with one hundred and fifty kings) more or less since the Vikings arrived- Feilimid mac Crimthainn and Mael Sechnaill mac Maele Ruanaid basically invented the concept of a "high kingship", but neither of them really managed to pull it off. Brian Boru did, but he worked hard for it- he fought two or three wars a year- and it collapsed immediately on his death. The wasn't any sort of lasting, island-wide hegemony in Ireland until the Norman invasion (and even that fell apart, eventually). The Pictish kingdom is often singled out for being unusually large and stable by the standards of the Celtic fringe- but that's all of two duchies. Denmark was, likewise, unusually unified by local standards (I think the 765 start has Sjaelland controlling the entire kingdom and then some?), but that fell apart in the 870s and didn't come back until the end of the tenth century, with Harald Bluetooth. There's a "but the gameplay" argument lurking out there somewhere, but I honestly think I'd find more fun in uniting the tribes and fending off the feudal empires if it was anything even close to as difficult as it should be. And I agree with Mister Adequate; Gavelkind would be a lot more bearable if it made any sense whatsoever.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:28
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Yeah, I like that they're making things harder to game - as it is, switching into Primogeniture and cruising your way to a continent-spanning empire is trivial - hell, within 3 generations in my current Zoroastrian ironman game I'm in a good enough position that I could take on basically any other nation in the world, and that's starting as a duke of nowherestan with a religion that's on the verge of extinction. It'd be nice if having to deal with Gavelkind was more a challenge, but Paradox has to walk the fine line of making it actually enjoyable - as it is, Gavelkind tends to lead to nonsensical kingdoms of a single county or the youngest son inheriting a giant swath of land compared to the eldest.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:46
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Aquitane is already a megaduke if you want to start easy Karling start, marry his heir to your heir.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:57
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Antti posted:Yeah, of course when you can do this, it usually works. But some wonky poo poo can still happen, and if you don't have enough duchies, your sons will start cross-inheriting counties in random order. And if any of the newly minted branch dynasties grow any stronger they are going to give your eldest hell upon succession. Then you use that as an excuse to take their stuff and redistribute it. You actually want your secondary sons turned disgruntled brothers/uncles to rebel so you can take the nice poo poo you gave them and give to someone else.
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Sep 10, 2014 09:58
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The comedy option of "fixing" diplo-assassinate would be to remove the covert aspect of it - have it be a "kill this guy" button. There might be chance that people won't discover your involvement.
BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 10:26 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 10:23
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:The comedy way of "fixing" diplo-assassinate would be to remove the covert aspect of it - have it be a "kill this guy" button. There might be chance that people won't discover your involvement. If you remove the free revenge assassination, this could work. Just walking up to the next best gathering of morally questionable guys with methods of dealing with problems and go "I have money, I have target, you kill, just loving do it, need guy dead". EDIT: To elaborate a bit, the way I see the assassination button is as the panic button. The "I don't care if people hate me for this, this rear end in a top hat needs to be gone, and he needs to be gone yesterday" button. It seems odd that I can have mountains of cash and an rear end in a top hat I want to kill and yet I can't put the two together and make this poo poo work somehow. Ideally, it would stay and launch a small event chain. 1) Seek out assassins. 1a) (Low chance) You're sighted, word spreads, target is informed of this and can go into hiding. You are known as dishonorable. If an adventurer goes into hiding, he gives up on his adventure. If target does not go into hiding, the event chain continues, else it's cancelled. 1b) (High chance) You're not sighted. 2) Assassins make their way to their target. 2a) (Low chance) Assassins blow their cover, word spreads, target is informed and can go into hiding. Same poo poo. 2b) (High chance) Assassins manage to get to the target. 3) Assassins attempt the kill. 3a) (Low chance) Assassins fail, target escapes, goes into hiding, event becomes public knowledge, etc. etc. 3b) (High chance) Assassins make the kill. 4) The kill is discovered. 4a) (Low chance) No foul play is suspected, no evidence supporting assassination, etc. You get off scot-free. 4b) (High chance) Foul play is suspected, an investigation is made and a connection to you is revealed. Same poo poo as if you were caught before, but with less going into hiding due to target being dead. TheMcD fucked around with this message at 10:38 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 10:27
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TheMcD posted:Just walking up to the next best gathering of morally questionable guys with methods of dealing with problems and go "I have money, I have target, you kill, just loving do it, need guy dead". The "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?" option? (I'd keep the revenge assassination, personally: I can forsee (assuming it extends to next of kin) absolutely hilarious revenge spirals getting kicked off.) Anyway, new culture map screenshot from the devplay:  Suebi in Galicia and the Russians have been split.
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Sep 10, 2014 10:56
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They're going to need a hell of a lot of melting pot events/cultural conversion mtth modifiers if they want that start to come out looking anything at all like Europe even 100 years later.
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Sep 10, 2014 11:03
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What's the pale yellow culture in Aquitaine? That doesn't look like it says Occitan.
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Sep 10, 2014 11:09
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Ofaloaf posted:What's the pale yellow culture in Aquitaine? That doesn't look like it says Occitan. Really? It looks like Occitan to me.
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Sep 10, 2014 11:10
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TheMcD posted:Really? It looks like Occitan to me. Yeah, that's pretty clearly Occitan. BBJoey posted:They're going to need a hell of a lot of melting pot events/cultural conversion mtth modifiers if they want that start to come out looking anything at all like Europe even 100 years later. They already said they're going to have a million of the things, so.
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Sep 10, 2014 11:16
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TheMcD posted:Really? It looks like Occitan to me. Autonomous Monster posted:Yeah, that's pretty clearly Occitan. 'Nother culture question, although more just straight history-- when did Vulgar Latin end and Italian begin, anyway?
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Sep 10, 2014 13:47
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Fighting a drawn out, 10 year war of attrition with Seljuk after forgetting to assassinate him then imprisoning him, executing him and seizing his gold horde is one of the most satisfying things in the game.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:40
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BBJoey posted:Fighting a drawn out, 10 year war of attrition with Seljuk after forgetting to assassinate him then imprisoning him, executing him and seizing his gold horde is one of the most satisfying things in the game. Beating the Mongols at their own game is also hella satisfying, though I had retinues and high Military Organisation, rather than low-attrition event troops.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:50
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   Turns out making icons is rather fun, once you get how to do it.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:55
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Ofaloaf posted:Well I guess my eyesight sucks. Roughly somewhere about the 9th-ish century I believe is the usual standard. By the early 9th century Vulgar Latin had diverged enough that it was unintelligible from Church Latin, and by the end of the 9th century the other Romance languages are generally agreed to be distinct languages at that point. You could say that Vulgar Latin in Italy was therefore Italian at the point where it wasn't spoken anywhere else. The difficulty is that those language changes happen differently and at different rates even in small geographic areas due to how utterly immobile the majority of the population was, as well as the whole population being generally illiterate meaning there are few written texts in laguages other than Church Latin. So some places might have been speaking Italian while others were still speaking Vulgar Latin, thinking they speak the same language while we might say different from our vantage point today. You get the same problem with the Great Schism, of course. We date the Great Schism to 1054, but virtually nobody alive at the time would have viewed it as such.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:06
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Autonomous Monster posted:The "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?" option? Glad to see that they split Russian. It didn't really make sense to even have it as a single culture in 867, so I wonder if they'll have it split then, too.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:17
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For a fun megaduke start, I recommend Bohemia in the Stamford Bridge start: you're one decision away from creating the Duchy of Moravia and then the Kingdom of Bohemia, your wife is a claimant to Poland and once you've got the Kingdom set up you'll be swimming in so much prestige that most of the other electors in the HRE will probably vote your rear end onto the throne. Even if you don't take the Empire, if the AI doesn't do what it usually seems to do as the HRE (create an antipope) you can usually just swoop into the first crusade and get crowned the King of Jerusalem. Since you'll still be a vassal king of the HRE all jihads to reclaim the Kingdom will target the Kaiser, meaning you'll benefit from the ridiculous amount of troops under them should those uppity Muslims decide to try and retake Jerusalem. As King of Jerusalem you can vassalize the Templars and the Hospitalers via decision, and if you've converted to German culture you're one title grant away from vassalizing the Teutons should you ever take the Imperial Throne. Congrats, you are now the protector of Western Christendom and you have more than half of the Catholic Holy Orders as your vassals. Might as well take Rome and make the Pope your vassal to create the Empire of Jesus.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:19
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Ofaloaf posted:
Is there... a Luchadore trait?
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Sep 10, 2014 15:20
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What's the best Slavic start? I'm shooting for the "reunite Rus as a Slav" achievement, but things are so hectic and levies are so tiny that I'm just doing terribly. What's the best way to build up from a tiny levy size? Upgrading provinces + improving martial + train troops?
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Sep 10, 2014 15:22
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COOL CORN posted:Is there... a Luchadore trait? There should be an El Santo trait in every mod.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:29
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COOL CORN posted:Is there... a Luchadore trait? MrBling posted:There should be an El Santo trait in every mod.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:31
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Aahhaah that owns so much.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:32
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COOL CORN posted:Is there... a Luchadore trait? I hope that the post apocalyptic USA mod uses that...
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Sep 10, 2014 15:34
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GO gently caress YOURSELF posted:I hope that the post apocalyptic USA mod uses that... Man, I hope the guy who made that mod reads this thread.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:36
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